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~Jules921
09-22-2007, 04:23 PM
I was looking for a Bard for the warchanter line - buffs and backup healing - I think splashing a level or two of ftg helps with this. I would also like to be able to hit most of the traps I know I won't be able to hit them all - and I'll need buffs to do more than a few


I have 2 con tomes so I can use 1 and possibly swap the 2nd for another type of tome.

Let me know and thanks
Jules

nbhs275
09-22-2007, 09:51 PM
bard 14 is a badass battlebard. dipping into rogue and fighter can only equal the normal strength or degrade it.

but if your really set on dipping i would say either pick up just two rogue, or 2 rogue and a level of fighter.

But i dont think its worth wasting all the bard has going for it and overly focus on one area. If you look at the best battlebards out there, its the ones with strong defenses, good offense, good CC and healing, and maxxed songs.

Girevik
09-25-2007, 09:05 AM
Check out this thread over in the Bard forums for some ideas:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=120763


One good way to build a character is to take advantage of synergies. That is, build in abilities that work really well together.

One ability you've locked onto desiring is the Bard Warchanter Songs. That is, high bonus to each Swing for Attack and Damage.

This is good with a normal number of swings, but this is really good with more than the normal number of swings. A perfect opportunity for a two-weapon fighter and their bonus attacks.

Drow are great for this with their bonuses to Charisma (primary Bard stat), Dexterity (needed as a prerequisite for two-weapon feats), and Intelligence (not needed very high, but it allows those stat build points to go elsewhere).

You've decided to drop the Rogue requirement (as you posted elsewhere), so the only decision is how much Bard and how much Fighter.

This build can probably work pretty well with anywhere from 14 Bard/0 Fighter to 12 Bard/2 Fighter.

The differences come in how maxed the final songs are versus how many Feats and attacks you end up with. Also, an important consideration is whether or not you can lay your hands on a +1 Dex Tome.

It is easy to start a Drow Bard with a 16 Dex and qualify for Two-weapon Fighting (a 15 required). It is a bit tougher to meet the 17 Dex requirement for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.

You will probably want to start with a 16 Dex and either:

[a] use a +1 Tome, or
[b] spend a level-up on Dex.

The next decision is how to spend the other level ups. If you start with a 16 Strength and a 16 Charisma, both stats are pretty good. But, which to improve? Boost your Strength for more to-hit and damage or your Charisma for more Spell Points, UMD, and better DC's?

Even as a Warchanter, you can appreciate hitting critters that aren't hitting back, so boosting your Dance Sphere is certainly not a waste.

I think I will try to play with this, it sounds fun.

~Jules921
09-25-2007, 11:24 AM
I've always been iffy about running twf. I run a high level cleric and I'm been known to ask a guildie to use a sheild at times - don't want to end up being a mana sponge ;) Let me play with the numbers and I'll let you all know how she turns out.

Jules

Taerdra
09-25-2007, 12:05 PM
Well you can get up to 50+ AC on a TWF, but you have to build for it and on a Bard/Rogue/Fighter build you will never have enough feats to do so. TWF requires 3 by itself (quite frankly you're going to want Imp Crit and Power Attack), 50+ AC requires CE and Dodge as well.

Moreover it really isn't that necessary. You can have displacement or blur on at all/most times, and scroll Stoneskin. That gives you a lot of defense. I'd be more inclined to support that with more HPs than trying to incorporate AC on this type of build.

My 2 coppers.

~Jules921
09-26-2007, 04:36 AM
I like my spell points too much to give up Mental toughness for my first feat - so I won't be able to take twf until 9th level - should I stick to board and sword until then - or will I be able to hit & damage without the proficiency? :confused:

I've got her up to 3rd lvl so far - below is the work up from the planner. Thoughts, suggestions and critiques are welcome. The tomes are not really tomes - I will use a dex tome at some point (probably earlier then later) the others are stat increase equipment - like clove jaw war beads etc. I want to make sure she's going to last before investing a real tome in her. I've only re-built her like 3 or 4 times :rolleyes:

Thanks,
Jules


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Warchantress
Level 14 Neutral Good Drow Female
(14 Bard)
Hit Points: 104
Spell Points: 559
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 4
Reflex: 13
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 16 19
Constitution 8 10
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 12
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 5 11
Bluff 3 3
Concentration 4 17
Diplomacy 3 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 7 21
Heal -1 2
Hide 7 21
Intimidate 3 3
Jump 5 13
Listen 1 7
Move Silently 7 21
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 7 20
Repair 2 2
Search 2 4
Spot -1 1
Swim 3 8
Tumble 5 8
Use Magic Device 7 20

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I

Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Ranged Damage I

Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I

Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Warchanter I

Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I

Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening I

Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening II

Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Haggle I

Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II

Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I

EinarMal
09-26-2007, 06:31 AM
Splashing 2 levels of fighter would be very tempting for the build you have. It would allow you to take IC Piercing and GTWF which would be a huge boost to DPS.

The way you have it now you can either take GTWF or IC Piercing at level 15 but not both. I just can't see not having both of those by level 15.

If you want to stay pure Bard I would suggest dropping mental toughness for IC Piercing. That is pretty much a must have feat in my opinion for any DPS oriented character. Especially with all the great critical based bonuses and effects.

~Jules921
10-02-2007, 02:35 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input. I will splash 2 lvls of ftr - first at lvl 3 and at lvl 14. Added a Dex Tome so she's permament now below are her stats from the planner. The Con tome is actually a +2 con item that she's already got. I have her up to lvl 3 already and she is a blast to play.

Jules


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Warchantress
Level 14 True Neutral Drow Female
(2 Fighter \ 12 Bard)
Hit Points: 140
Spell Points: 491
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 12
Will: 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 14 15 15
Dexterity 16 18 18
Constitution 12 14 14
Intelligence 10 10 10
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 18 19 22

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1


Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 3 8 8
Bluff 4 6 6
Concentration 6 17 17
Diplomacy 4 6 6
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 8 12 12
Heal -1 0 0
Hide 7 19 19
Intimidate 4 6 6
Jump 2 8 8
Listen -1 1 3
Move Silently 7 19 19
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 8 20 20
Repair 0 0 0
Search 0 0 2
Spot -1 -1 1
Swim 2 2 2
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 21 21

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus (Drow)
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I

Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening I

Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Glitterdust
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Spell (2): Soundburst
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Warchanter I

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Good Hope
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II

Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Dominate Person
Spell (3): Charm Monster
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III

Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening II

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Amabel
10-30-2007, 09:23 PM
You'll have great fun. A pure bard is probably slightly better from a min/max perspective, but a splash gives you some nice weapon choices and versatility and makes leveling easier through the low/mid-levels (and imho more fun).

I actually splashed one level of barb on my warchanter because I wanted to run fast (and can wait for 15 for GTWF if I go that way). I'm level 8/1 now and haven't regretted the splash yet. My pure bard is technically better I think, but my warchanter has been more fun :). Don't sweat AC - just let the tanks hit first, know when to back up, and have Displacement on a hotkey. Fearsome armour helps too.

Have a poke around in the bard forum and look at Fuzgut and the Icy Kind for some fun ideas. And run Delara's for Carnifex asap (and the Golden Cartouche). Even though you're ultimately focussed on TWF you'll have great fun criting for 100+ with Carnifex with your buff songs up and a UMD with a wand of bull's strength. You won't keep up with the fighters long term but with heroism, blur, inspire courage, ironskin chant, power attack and haste (and displacement when necessary) you're going to hit pretty hard in concentrated bursts against the right mobs. I actually speced for the big axe until level 8 and swapped in all the TWF and piercing feats just before I hit level 9.

Once of the really nice things about bards is that you can respec from being combat oriented to more of a caster just by fiddling your enhancements, so you can try some different styles as you progress. You can respec almost completely if you get your hands on some shards or plat for them isn't a problem. Every now and then I like to swap from being combat heavy (drow attack and damage bonuses, all song lines) to more of a caster (no combat enhancements, most but not all song lines, spell point and healing enhancements). You've started with a very good CHA, so you will be as good as just about any bard one level lower on the casting (until you take a second level of fighter at 14, if you choose to do that for GTWF before the cap raise).

Anyway, I've rambled a bit but I think you'll have great fun. I haven't played any build yet that was more fun overall than a reasonably balanced warchanter.