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smyter
09-21-2007, 04:00 PM
I am now up to lvl 8 with my 32 pt high wis cleric. I still am having a tough time planning my feats. I am hoping to solicit some good advise. I am building a cleric to accel at Destruction. I plan on taking Spell focus, greater spell focus, spell pen, greater spell pen,... then I am left with 1 feat. I mistakenly picked dwarf for race, if I wanted to do it again, I would have picked human (for the +1 wis, and the extra feat). Anyways, I am contemplating the metamagic feats.

Enlarge - will allow me to destruct from a safe distance
Extend - What can I say, who doesn't like extend.. but it is not the focus of this build
Heighten - This would allow my curse spell to land on those pesky named that cannot be destructed... and add another +1 to the DC of symbol of fear.
Empower Healing - I am taking all the life magic enhancements, which also helps my inflict/harm spells. So I thought this may compliment that part of the build.

What do you guys find most helpful? I am sure many other people have toyed with this build.

Argo
Puc - 14 Charasmatic Cleric
Tiven - 14 Halfling high AC and TWF Fighter
Mizar - 14 "I can trip anything in the game" fighter
Pate - 14 Super Buff Bard
Toc - 10 Fighter/4 Rogue trap-disabling fightin machine
Yuucon Cornielus - 8 Cleric - Practitioner of the Dark Arts

Sojourner
09-22-2007, 08:09 PM
Enlarge -- Destruction has a pretty good range as it is. If you are slow and careful, you can usually destruct things before they notice you. It might be useful for other spells, but it is overkill for destruction.

Extend -- At level 14, only useful for the battle clerics casting the short-duration self buffs.

Heighten - Haven't actually played with this and any Cleric spells. Might be interesting. But, then again, I don't throw very many offensive low level spells like curse. If you use curse or blindness, might be useful. But, it might also be more trouble than it is worth remembering to turn it on and off.

Empower Healing - Good feat, but only if you also buy 1 or 2 of the enhancements to go with it. Its use is pretty marginal without the enhancements to reduce the cost. Empower Healing will only help the cure spells and not the inflict spells, so offensively it is only useful against undead.


What you may want for a feat is Mental Toughness for a few more spell points.

.

Impaqt
09-22-2007, 08:23 PM
Enlarge -- Destruction has a pretty good range as it is. If you are slow and careful, you can usually destruct things before they notice you. It might be useful for other spells, but it is overkill for destruction.

Agreed. No Need to enlarge

Extend -- At level 14, only useful for the battle clerics casting the short-duration self buffs.
Agreed.
Heighten - Haven't actually played with this and any Cleric spells. Might be interesting. But, then again, I don't throw very many offensive low level spells like curse. If you use curse or blindness, might be useful. But, it might also be more trouble than it is worth remembering to turn it on and off.
Se Below
Empower Healing - Good feat, but only if you also buy 1 or 2 of the enhancements to go with it. Its use is pretty marginal without the enhancements to reduce the cost. Empower Healing will only help the cure spells and not the inflict spells, so offensively it is only useful against undead.

Without MT and IMT, I wouldnt bother with Empower Healing.... Just Use Heal.....
What you may want for a feat is Mental Toughness for a few more spell points.

.

Heighten is an outstanding Metafeat.....

Soundburst, Orders Wrath, poison, COntagion, Banish, Dismissal, Slay Living, Curse, Blind, Command, Greater Command, etc etc etc....

They all hit a LOT more often Heightened.

Blazer
09-22-2007, 09:19 PM
Going to echo some of Impaqt's answers here. Heighten is amazing. Obviously you can't Heighten Destruction yet, since it's already your highest level spell, but for the others it's awesome. Obviously, you don't leave it on all the time, but in quests where you know how to manage your SP, you can get away with Heightening some stuff.

I'm also going to throw in my two cents here regarding your other feats. I don't think you'll need both spell pen feats. That's a bit much IMO. With one spell pen feat and spell pen enhancements and items available, you shouldn't have too much trouble blasting through SR other than those Rahkasha (sp?) on elite, they've got some very high SR.

Strakeln
09-23-2007, 09:55 AM
Maximize is great if you're a soloist or often find yourself with a dead party. Maximized & extended blade barrier plus some haste potions and a decent jump will get you out of a lot of hairy situations. It also impacts your cure spells, which can be situationally useful (your mass spells can hit for well over 100 pts, non-crit).

It is also pretty nice for quests like the Stormreaver, when you have SP to spare and need to do some serious damage.

It may not be the best choice for you, mana is pretty tight as a cleric. It will be notably cheaper come mod 5 so may be more viable then.

Edit: While I haven't tried it out, maximize is probably essential for PvPing as a cleric. Max'd Harm spell on a save does 140 damage before amplification on a save, and evasion won't help anyone :D

Impaqt
09-23-2007, 10:15 AM
Maximize is great if you're a soloist or often find yourself with a dead party. Maximized & extended blade barrier plus some haste potions and a decent jump will get you out of a lot of hairy situations. It also impacts your cure spells, which can be situationally useful (your mass spells can hit for well over 100 pts, non-crit).

It is also pretty nice for quests like the Stormreaver, when you have SP to spare and need to do some serious damage.

It may not be the best choice for you, mana is pretty tight as a cleric. It will be notably cheaper come mod 5 so may be more viable then.

Edit: While I haven't tried it out, maximize is probably essential for PvPing as a cleric. Max'd Harm spell on a save does 140 damage before amplification on a save, and evasion won't help anyone :D

Heal/harm arent maximizeable.....

HorridForm
09-23-2007, 07:30 PM
My Human Cleric Offensive Caster took

Extend - Buffs
Hieghten - For Crowd Control
Empower - Uber Damage & Mass Cure Spells
Maximize - Uber Damage
Spell Focus Necro - 1 hit kills
Greater Spell Focus Necro - 1 hit kills

The Empower/Maximize really only works well for certain people. I myself usually rush ahead aggro all of the mobs in any given dungeon and place an uber blade barrier down to kill everything.

So you could probably do without this one until mod 5 comes out and our metamagic is cheaper.

Unless you started with a high Str I probably wouldn't worry about extend spell to much, I only turn it on when I need self/group combat buffs.

In either case if you cannot get yourself a torc then you should probably drop 1 or the other for mental toughness or spell pen.

moops
09-23-2007, 10:05 PM
I started with Extend, mental Toughness, imp men toughness on both clerics, and dropped them high level--just playing around, but also works with with whom I run with the and the content that I am doing alot. Also have been lucky to have alot of dragon shards.

Cleric 1 28 pt 30 wis
Empower Heal
Exrta Turn
maximize
Spell Focus Enchantment
Spell Focus Necro
Spell Focus Abjuration ( use to be greater enchantment, but with Reaver, Chains, ADQ, Scale Runs and POP, I like having for time being)


Cleric 2 32 pt 32 wis
Empower Heal
maximize
Spell Focus Enchantment
Spell Focus Necro
Greater Spell focus Necro
Spell Focus Abjuration

Both Clerics have Blue Scale Armor for Spell penetration7, but carried item beforehand. Also I carry the spell penetration 1 & 2 enhancements, and then carried spell focus items, until I got the Reaver Napkin.

I still carry empower heal because I use alot of mass heals, I'm just to use to burst healing.
I haven't really thought about Heighten as even my cleric with the lower wis lands her spells probably over 80%, except for elite Scale run, greater command rarely ever fails. With the new mod, who knows? Maybe I will change again.

Strakeln
09-23-2007, 10:22 PM
Heal/harm arent maximizeable.....As I said, hadn't tried it out yet. I had noticed that heal isn't maximizable... any idea it and harm are not?

Khurse
09-24-2007, 08:49 AM
Kind of an aisde question here- but is it easy to switch feats around at higher levels?

Impaqt
09-24-2007, 08:51 AM
Fairly easy.... All Ya need is a Dragonashard, Some Plat and 3 days time inbetween feat changes.

HorridForm
09-24-2007, 10:01 AM
I started with Extend, mental Toughness, imp men toughness on both clerics, and dropped them high level--just playing around, but also works with with whom I run with the and the content that I am doing alot. Also have been lucky to have alot of dragon shards.

Cleric 1 28 pt 30 wis
Empower Heal
Exrta Turn
maximize
Spell Focus Enchantment
Spell Focus Necro
Spell Focus Abjuration ( use to be greater enchantment, but with Reaver, Chains, ADQ, Scale Runs and POP, I like having for time being)


Cleric 2 32 pt 32 wis
Empower Heal
maximize
Spell Focus Enchantment
Spell Focus Necro
Greater Spell focus Necro
Spell Focus Abjuration

Both Clerics have Blue Scale Armor for Spell penetration7, but carried item beforehand. Also I carry the spell penetration 1 & 2 enhancements, and then carried spell focus items, until I got the Reaver Napkin.

I still carry empower heal because I use alot of mass heals, I'm just to use to burst healing.
I haven't really thought about Heighten as even my cleric with the lower wis lands her spells probably over 80%, except for elite Scale run, greater command rarely ever fails. With the new mod, who knows? Maybe I will change again.

I use to take enchantment focus and greater enchantment focus until I realized that Heighten would increase Greater Command DC by 2 as well as the DC's for several other spells. If you took Heighten right now it would be more effecient for your spell DC's.

moops
09-24-2007, 12:11 PM
I use to take enchantment focus and greater enchantment focus until I realized that Heighten would increase Greater Command DC by 2 as well as the DC's for several other spells. If you took Heighten right now it would be more effecient for your spell DC's.

But doesn't heighten cost like 2x more? The only spell that I might use it on might be slay living, but I rarely miss with it. Although I suppose I could load Dismissal, but find it much easier to just go back and forth between banish and destruction. Part of why I got rid of greater enchantment for abjuration was that I Knew one spell focus was good enough for the time being.

My spells that I use (average btw both clerics)
Hold Person-lands 99%
Greater Command - lands 99% cept certain mobs Scale Run
Banishment --over 80%
Slay living --over 90 %
Destruction -- over 90%
Harm --over 90%

Blazer
09-24-2007, 01:36 PM
But doesn't heighten cost like 2x more?

Right now, Heighten raises the spell you want to cast to your highest casting level and makes it cost as much as if it were a lvl 7 spell. So, if you wanted to use Command (lvl 1, 10 SP) but Heighten it, it would cost the same amount of SP as if it were a lvl 7 spell (40 SP).

moops
09-24-2007, 05:57 PM
Right now, Heighten raises the spell you want to cast to your highest casting level and makes it cost as much as if it were a lvl 7 spell. So, if you wanted to use Command (lvl 1, 10 SP) but Heighten it, it would cost the same amount of SP as if it were a lvl 7 spell (40 SP).

Ah, still not worth it at this point for me, maybe if my wisdom was lower, or I did use more lower level spells. But who knows, maybe Ill try it out after the next mod.

Blazer
09-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Yeah, if you've got a dragonshard lying around or haven't done the free feat exchange quest, I'd recommend at least giving it a shot for a few days. I don't run around with Heighten on all the time, by any means - 1300 SP only goes so far. Certain quests, however, it's nice to have just to make sure you don't have to cast something twice. Most quests in GH I end up with extra mana at the end anyway, so using stuff that's Heightened doesn't bother me much.

moops
09-24-2007, 06:26 PM
Yeah, if you've got a dragonshard lying around or haven't done the free feat exchange quest, I'd recommend at least giving it a shot for a few days. I don't run around with Heighten on all the time, by any means - 1300 SP only goes so far. Certain quests, however, it's nice to have just to make sure you don't have to cast something twice. Most quests in GH I end up with extra mana at the end anyway, so using stuff that's Heightened doesn't bother me much.

And therein is the truth of the matter for me, I have a hard enough time remembering to turn maximize off, I know I would end up leaving on heighten all the time, lol. I only have 1090 sp atm, and it is usually more than enough, but, if I forget to turn max off, different story.