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Roguewiz
09-19-2007, 09:46 AM
Archem Trilok
14th Halfling Fighter - True Nuetral

Hit Points
20 Heroic Durability
10 Draconic Vitality
140 Fighter
70 Constitution
30 Toughness (Taken twice)
50 Toughness Enhancements
30 Greater False Life
350 HP

Dual-Wielding AC
10 Base
1 Size Bonus
11 Armor Bonus (+3 Mithril Full Plate) **Have**
3 Dex Bonus
4 Deflection (+4 Protection Ring) ** Have **
2 Natural Armor (Invaders Ring, easy to get)
1 Dual Wielding (Two-Weapon Defense)
32 Armor Class (Before buffs)

"Tanking" AC
10 Base
1 Size
11 Armor Bonus
7 Shield (+5 Heavy Steel)
3 Max Dex
4 Deflection
2 Natural Armor
38 Armor Class Before Buffs

To-Hit
BAB: 14/14/19/24
Total: 24/24/29/34 (Sword n' Board or 2-handed)
Main: 24/24/29/34/34
Off: 29/29

Saves
Fortitude: 9 + 5 + 1 + 4 = 19
Reflex: 9 + 6 + 1 + 4 = 20
Will: 4 + 3 + 1 + 4 = 12
** Saves include +4 Resistance Cloak (Which I have **
** Saves are subject to change with Halfling Racial Enhancements **

Stats
Creation Stats = 16 / 16 / 14 / 10 / 10 / 8
Final Stats = 30 / 22 / 20 / 10 / 16 / 8

Items that I will equip (I have these)
+6 Strength Bracer
+5 Dex Gloves
+4 Con Ring
Greater False Life Belt

Items Needed
+6 Wisdom Helmet from the Dragon (Only raid item I have listed, other than +2 Con tome)

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14 (Favor)
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 14 (If I get lucky enough to get it from Reaver, or another Raid)
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 (Easily Aquired)

Feats
1st Level
Toughness
Weapon Focus: Slashing (Bonus)

2nd Level
Two-Weapon Fighting (Bonus)

3rd Level
Toughness

4th Level
Weapon Specialization - Slashing (Bonus)

6th Level
Improved Two-weapon Fighting
Power Attack (Bonus)

8th Level
Dodge (**NEW**)

9th Level
Improved Critical - Slashing

10th Level
Mobility (**NEW**)

12th Level
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Weapon Specialization - Slashing (Bonus)

14th Level
Spring Attack (**NEW**)

Skills
Max Balance for Cross-class, and put the rest into Jump/Intimidate

Enhancements
** Coming Soon **

DPS
I guesstimate the overall damage per swing to be:
1d8 + 23 (+5 Longsword)
1d6 + 20 (+5 Handaxe)

Main: 31/31/36/41/41
Off: 36/36
** Not sure on the actual formula/progression of dual-wielding. Please verify and correct me as necessary **
** To-hit includes: +5 Weapons, and Focus/Greater Focus Slashing **

Summary
The main job of this character is to provide adequate DPS, while maintaining the "tanking" role. While the AC is lacking, it can be substantially increased with buffs and "raid" loot. The high HP makes up for the lower AC.

This is a pretty straight forward Fighter DPS build.

Blazer
09-19-2007, 10:47 AM
Looks very similar to the halfling TWF we've got in my guild. I don't really think you'll need the Power Critical feat honestly. I don't know of any full BAB classes with a 30+ STR (or DEX for Finesse) who need it.

One question regarding your skill choices though - why bother with dumping points into Intimidate? Halflings are at an automatic -4 to intimidate due to their size differential (-8 vs Giants), plus you don't really have the AC to deal with the aggro you do get should you happen to successfully pull it.

Roguewiz
09-19-2007, 10:52 AM
Looks very similar to the halfling TWF we've got in my guild. I don't really think you'll need the Power Critical feat honestly. I don't know of any full BAB classes with a 30+ STR (or DEX for Finesse) who need it.

One question regarding your skill choices though - why bother with dumping points into Intimidate? Halflings are at an automatic -4 to intimidate due to their size differential (-8 vs Giants), plus you don't really have the AC to deal with the aggro you do get should you happen to successfully pull it.

Intimidate - true, didn't really think about the -4 due to size. I'll have to re-evaluate and adjust skill points as necessary

AC - The AC is low, but I will make up for that with 400+hp fully buffed, Not bad ;). I'll see what I can do with my stats. Maybe I can sqeeze 2 pts of INT in and eat a +1 Int tome. That way I can take Combat Expertise later.

I'll consider dropping power critical. I'd have to look over the feats available and see if anything catches my eye.

Blazer
09-19-2007, 10:58 AM
As with many fighters, taking Iron Will is always a nice feat. Coupled with the return of Halfling Luck (Will) in Mod 5, you could hit 17ish for a Will save before buffs.

Roguewiz
09-19-2007, 11:02 AM
As with many fighters, taking Iron Will is always a nice feat. Coupled with the return of Halfling Luck (Will) in Mod 5, you could hit 17ish for a Will save before buffs.

Halfling Luck is in my planned Enhancements ;). As far as Iron Will goes, not sure. Halflings already have +1 to saves from being Halfling, and with their Halfling Luck, they will typically still have higher saves than a fighter of another race with the same wisdom score. So if you look at it from that standpoint, Iron Will isn't really needed.

Blazer
09-19-2007, 11:11 AM
True. Taking it as a feat however relieves you from taking all those enhancements for it. I guess it comes down to which is going to be more valuable to you - one feat or 6 AP (assuming you max out the Luck: Iron Will line).

sigtrent
09-19-2007, 11:32 AM
Take dodge instad of Two Weapon Defense, it's the same sized bonus but it applies all the time instead of just when you are TWF.

You could easily muster a beter AC than you list using armor mastery if you take it as an enhancement.

I'm pretty sure that scimitar will beat out longsword in DPS over time due to the larger crit range so long as you have more than token strength (say 16 or so). And kukri is probably your best off hand weapont he way you have the character set up.

Greater two weapon fighting is like this...
Main hand / Main + Off / Main + Off / Main + Off

Roguewiz
09-19-2007, 11:37 AM
Take dodge instad of Two Weapon Defense, it's the same sized bonus but it applies all the time instead of just when you are TWF.

You could easily muster a beter AC than you list using armor mastery if you take it as an enhancement.

I'm pretty sure that scimitar will beat out longsword in DPS over time due to the larger crit range so long as you have more than token strength (say 16 or so). And kukri is probably your best off hand weapont he way you have the character set up.

Greater two weapon fighting is like this...
Main hand / Main + Off / Main + Off / Main + Off

LOL..I keep forgetting that a kukri is slashing.

As far as AC goes, yea, I know I can get more. Just haven't devoted the time to planning out the enhancements (since this is my work computer and I don't have the planner on it)

Tulsa_Doom
09-19-2007, 11:38 AM
Not a big suprise though since twf locks you in with 3 feats.

Starting stats

Str - 16
Dex - 17 Remember prereq for gtwf feat is 17 dex and 19 for suptwf if that ever gets included
Con - 10
Int - 8
Wis - 12
Cha - 8

Ending as they Stand now with Tomes, Gear and Enhancements

Str - 28
Dex - 20
Con - 20
Int - 8
Wis - 18
Cha - 8


Saves with Head of Good Fortune and Resistance 4 w/o Greater Hero

21 - Fort
17 - Reflex
15 - Will

Feats I took all 3 twf feats, all 3 dragonmark feats, greater weapon focus slashing, imp crit slashing, toughness, power attack, weapon focus slashing and weapon spec, slashing and khopesh feat. I had power crit, dodge and two weapon defense but switched out for the dragonmarks recently.

Hps 326 with ac of 38 unbuffed

The dragonmarks while I was initially pretty skeptical about are awesome and more than make up for the ac flaw most twfs have. The khopesh feat choice is a personal one and I guess you could get iron will or something else for it. Also while its not my preference you could go piercing and have a nifty rapier fighter.

Blazer
09-19-2007, 11:46 AM
Dex - 17 Remember prereq for gtwf feat is 17 dex and 19 for suptwf if that ever gets included

Can someone give me a link or something pointing out the actual existance of Superior TWF? I've never heard of it and the PnP junkies I know in game say it doesn't exist. The only thing I can find in the d20 SRD is a mention to the epic feat Perfect TWF.

Roguewiz
09-19-2007, 11:56 AM
Can someone give me a link or something pointing out the actual existance of Superior TWF? I've never heard of it and the PnP junkies I know in game say it doesn't exist. The only thing I can find in the d20 SRD is a mention to the epic feat Perfect TWF.

It is Perfect TWF. Superior doesn't exist in standard d20. It is possible it was a 3rd Edition feat, but I dont recall it.

spifflove
09-19-2007, 12:21 PM
Picks. nuff said.

Roguewiz
09-19-2007, 01:14 PM
Picks. nuff said.

Picks are nice weapons, however, they are piercing. So unless you have a transmuting, DR will be a problem in most case; since piercing is one of the most "reduced due to DR" types in DDO.

Shade
09-19-2007, 01:46 PM
Can someone give me a link or something pointing out the actual existance of Superior TWF? I've never heard of it and the PnP junkies I know in game say it doesn't exist. The only thing I can find in the d20 SRD is a mention to the epic feat Perfect TWF.

There no link anymore..

But it was listed on the DDO.com compedium for quite a while, but recently removed. Also in beta the feat was in the game, the description said it added another attack, presumably for BAB15 when we get our 5th attack.
Same with superior two handed fighting. (of which none of the related feats exist in pnp)

Since the info was removed it might not be added mod 6 with the level increase, but id say theres a good chance it will be. The game doesn't follow pnp in regards to attacks per round, neither should the related feats. Regardless, if you raid allot you can get 19 base with a +3 tome at 16 starting. Also mod5 will increase the chance of them dropping in reaver, as well as the lich. But quite there rare, you might never get one.

Jarlaxel
09-21-2007, 12:01 AM
what is your alignment? I would choose lawful good and trade your +6 str bracers for +6 str gloves and wear chaos gardes. Adds +2 to ac. Swap around your other eq slots to maximize dex, con, etc. The build will work, however, I always prefer maxing out ac and keeping a moderatly good hp count, rather than high HP and low ac. Even with high hp and a low ac your going to be a squishie. Try to find that balance where you can max ac and keep high HP. My experience as a twf fighter is you need at least a 40 ac unbuffed to survive the majority of elite content. theres things you can do to raise your ac.

Roguewiz
09-21-2007, 08:13 AM
what is your alignment? I would choose lawful good and trade your +6 str bracers for +6 str gloves and wear chaos gardes. Adds +2 to ac. Swap around your other eq slots to maximize dex, con, etc. The build will work, however, I always prefer maxing out ac and keeping a moderatly good hp count, rather than high HP and low ac. Even with high hp and a low ac your going to be a squishie. Try to find that balance where you can max ac and keep high HP. My experience as a twf fighter is you need at least a 40 ac unbuffed to survive the majority of elite content. theres things you can do to raise your ac.

True Neutral

The Chaosguards are nice to have, but not getting totally destroyed by archers with "Unholy" modifiers to their arrows > +2 Dodge

Particularly since AC isn't a big part of this build.

CSFurious
09-21-2007, 08:31 AM
but, i think that 2-weapon fighting goes better with "evasion" classes such as rogues & rangers

dipping into fighter levels will give you the hitpoints you need to survive

Roguewiz
09-21-2007, 08:35 AM
but, i think that 2-weapon fighting goes better with "evasion" classes such as rogues & rangers

dipping into fighter levels will give you the hitpoints you need to survive

I'm not following you. What bearing does being an "evasion" class have on TWF? Also, including Ranger in your example is a moot point since they get all the TWF feats for free as they level.

CSFurious
09-21-2007, 11:24 AM
first, the fact that rangers get all of the twf feats for free tells you that they should be the ones doing most of the twf

second, for twf you need high dex, and high dex goes hand in hand with evasion which helps alleviate alot of damage, i.e., they cannot even hit you with aoe spells & when they do, it is either half damage or with improved evasion, no damage

this is a halfling & i always thought of those guys as acrobatic little suckas so call me crazy but it just makes sense to take advantage of their naturally high dex & max it, and since the dex is maxed, it then makes sense to seek evasion because your reflexes will be higher than say the average "dwarf", i think with gh, bootise has 25 reflex at level 10, it is sick

i got 2 evasion types who wear mithral bp & mithral chain respectively, and they have dexs of 28 & 24 respectively, they dodge a lot, have high ac's both in the 30's with no special loot whatsoever & the bad guys have trouble hitting them to say the least


I'm not following you. What bearing does being an "evasion" class have on TWF? Also, including Ranger in your example is a moot point since they get all the TWF feats for free as they level.

Roguewiz
09-21-2007, 11:49 AM
first, the fact that rangers get all of the twf feats for free tells you that they should be the ones doing most of the twf

second, for twf you need high dex, and high dex goes hand in hand with evasion which helps alleviate alot of damage, i.e., they cannot even hit you & when they do, it is either half damage or with improved evasion, no damage

this is a halfling & i always thought of those guys as acrobatic little suckas so call me crazy but it just makes sense to take advantage of their naturally high dex & max it, and since the dex is maxed, it then makes sense to seek evasion because your reflexes will be higher than say the average "dwarf", i think with gh, bootise has 25 reflex at level 10, it is sick

i got 2 evasion types who wear mithral bp & mithral chain respectively, and they have dexs of 28 & 24 respectively, they dodge a lot & the bad guys have trouble hitting them to say the least

1. Evasion and Improved Evasion have no bearing whatsoever on damage obtained in melee. It only reduced damage from some spells and traps.

2. 17 Dex isn't a "high" dex, which is all that is required for GTWF.

3. TWF isn't necessarily a "dex" thing. You can have the bare minimum to fit yourself into GTWF, and go for high strength, as apposed to high dex.

4. Dex based toons aren't always the best thing to do. You lose dex to AC when prone, held, and other things.

5. Fighters are melee, just like Rangers/Rogues. They have the benefit of having such a wide range of feat choices (as in the # they can have), that they can be awesome TWFers

Impaqt
09-21-2007, 11:53 AM
2 Toughness Feats = 32 Hit Points at L14.

TWF ona FIghter, I wouldnt go without Spring Attack..... Drop a few point sin Tumble, Take Doge and Mobiity instead of TWD and Power Critical. SPring attack could replace Greater Weapon Focus or Spec..... Or wait till Level 15...

TWF + Low armor class Means you may end up Moving a lot.. THat -4 Penalty can get annoying....

Roguewiz
09-21-2007, 12:54 PM
2 Toughness Feats = 32 Hit Points at L14.

TWF ona FIghter, I wouldnt go without Spring Attack..... Drop a few point sin Tumble, Take Doge and Mobiity instead of TWD and Power Critical. SPring attack could replace Greater Weapon Focus or Spec..... Or wait till Level 15...

TWF + Low armor class Means you may end up Moving a lot.. THat -4 Penalty can get annoying....

I could have swore toughness works like this.

1st time you take it = +3 HP, +1 every level after that
2nd time you take it = an additional +1 every level.

3hp
13hp (1st feat)
14hp (2nd Feat)
=30hp total.

In regards to Two-Weapon Defense and Power Critical, I plan on dropping those anyways, just haven't updated the build yet.

Impaqt
09-21-2007, 01:05 PM
I could have swore toughness works like this.

1st time you take it = +3 HP, +1 every level after that
2nd time you take it = an additional +1 every level.

3hp
13hp (1st feat)
14hp (2nd Feat)
=30hp total.

In regards to Two-Weapon Defense and Power Critical, I plan on dropping those anyways, just haven't updated the build yet.

I've never had a Character with 2 TOughness feats..... but I would assume they are the same..

Regardless.. You have 40 Hit Points listed inyour original Post....

Roguewiz
09-21-2007, 01:11 PM
I've never had a Character with 2 TOughness feats..... but I would assume they are the same..

Regardless.. You have 40 Hit Points listed inyour original Post....

Doh!

*fixed ;)*

Edit: I'll check on one of my other toons to see how they are doing Toughness feat stacking

Talson
09-21-2007, 01:21 PM
I could have swore toughness works like this.

1st time you take it = +3 HP, +1 every level after that
2nd time you take it = an additional +1 every level.

3hp
13hp (1st feat)
14hp (2nd Feat)
=30hp total.

In regards to Two-Weapon Defense and Power Critical, I plan on dropping those anyways, just haven't updated the build yet.

I think you'd get the full benfit for the feat twice for 34 HP.

3 HP + 14 for level for the first toughness and then 3HP +14 for the second toughness.

I think the only part that wouldn't stack would be the enhancements.
I can run it past a guildy who's taken it several times for his PvP build later to double check. Actually Sabo if you're out there let us know....

Take it easy
Tal

Roguewiz
09-21-2007, 01:40 PM
I think you'd get the full benfit for the feat twice for 34 HP.

3 HP + 14 for level for the first toughness and then 3HP +14 for the second toughness.

I think the only part that wouldn't stack would be the enhancements.
I can run it past a guildy who's taken it several times for his PvP build later to double check. Actually Sabo if you're out there let us know....

Take it easy
Tal

The 1st toughness gives +3hp at the level you take it, then +1 every level after that. (and its retro-active). 16HP for the 1st toughness by level 14. The problem is the subsequent toughness feats you might take.

Talson
09-21-2007, 02:05 PM
Yeah I was thinking it's 3 +1 pre level missed the caviot about first time you take it....

It's an ambivalent req ;)

"Increases your hit points by +3 at first level, and 1 additional hit point for each additional level."

I'd still think of it as being 3 + Character level -1 from when the feat was taken each time, but I could see how It could be interpreted that you only first take the feat once so you no longer get the +3 bonus when taking it subsequent times.