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View Full Version : Paladin builds without improved critical



artvan_delet
09-18-2007, 11:25 AM
I see numerous builds without improved critical feat. I am not criticizing these builds, but I am curious why people are not including this feat. I find it to be the best feat for melee, not only for dps but for smiting, puncturing, etc.

Impaqt
09-18-2007, 11:35 AM
I see numerous builds without improved critical feat. I am not criticizing these builds, but I am curious why people are not including this feat. I find it to be the best feat for melee, not only for dps but for smiting, puncturing, etc.


Some paladins dont focus on melee.

Paladins are very limited in feats.....

vyvy3369
09-18-2007, 03:34 PM
It's one of the feats I miss occasionally on mine, but for the most part, Stunning Blow & Weighted weapons generate enough criticals that I don't miss it enough to swap out another useful feat for it.

If you're relying on critical effects, then yes it can help, but overall it doesn't add a ton to your DPS. Take a non-Khopesh for a rough example (let's say Longsword):
17/20 you're doing normal damage, 2/20 you're doing 2* damage, 1/20 you automatically miss (21 * base damage). Add in IC and you're up to 15 + 4 * 2 = 23 * base damage, or a slightly less than 10% increase in damage against things that can be crit'd.

Khopeshes (and SoS-type weapons) make it a more obvious of a choice, and simple weapons make it a bit worse. Critical effects make it more appealing also like the smiting & puncturing you mentioned. Then again, there's also the potential for Keen Smiting weapons to help make up the difference on that one.

As Impaqt said though, there are a lot of potentially useful feats, and getting slightly more criticals isn't worth it for every build.

Dworkin_of_Amber
09-20-2007, 11:21 AM
While I agree that it is odd, but I guess it depends on the overall focus of the Paladin Build. Most of my builds are Melee-Oriented (ie. front-line-fighter-type-Paladin). But, for a more Utility/Support Paladin build, I can definately understand the idea of a build without IC.

Take a neo-Batman Build (11 Pal / 2 Rog / 1 Whatever - with full Rogue Skills), I can certainly see not taking IC, to max out the Rogue Skills and UMD to be a support character for the party that can still swing a weapon, but not ever leading in Kills.

I do agree that it does limit the build in DPS potential, there can be reasons for not taking it... a Bludgeon Specced Paladin will crit so rarely, even with IC, I can understand not taking it... or someone with a mess of Keen Weapons, or just going for non-critical Stat Damagers (Wounding/Cursespewing/Weakening, etc)...

But I think that anyone who wants a melee-oriented Paladin, one who will be up front with the Fighters and Barbarians full-time, then Improved Critical should be an auto-include.

As an aside, I see to many Paladin builds taking "Luck of Heroes" or other saves-based Feats for a class that really does not need them. A Well-Built Paladin should never need these types of Feats (unless it is Bullheaded which is taken for Maxxing Intimidate)... but I really can't see any reason for Paladin builds to take these feats. And additionally, unless you are trying to build a Healing Specced Paladin, Taking Mental Toughness seems like a wasted feat on most Paladins.

vyvy3369
09-20-2007, 12:57 PM
a Bludgeon Specced Paladin will crit so rarely, even with IC, I can understand not taking it
Strictly in terms of DPS, a Warhammer does the same damage as a Longsword if all other things are equal, with or without IC. Longswords get an extra 1x damage 10% of the time, Warhammers get an extra 2x damage 5% of the time without IC. Doubling those percentages with IC still keeps them even in terms of DPS. Unless you're talking about special critical effects (where the quantity counts more than the overall DPS) or non-martial weapons, I don't see how Bludgeoning should affect the decision at all.

Mithran
09-27-2007, 05:32 AM
One of the most important things for my paladins (elven) is more Health, so I'm almost obliged to take Toughness. If I opt in advance to take Improved Crit: Slash, then at level 14, I'll get to choose three more Feats.

As it happens, I typically do opt for Improved Crit: Slash, and Toughness, which leaves me three, but it's extremely limiting.