PDA

View Full Version : Normal, Hard, Elite Suggestion



HumanJHawkins
09-14-2007, 01:07 PM
When the game first started and content was more limited, and people were newer to the game, it made sense to prevent people from jumpoing straight into elite. Perhaps it still does make sese for new players, so maybe this suggestion should be unlocked at about 1000 favor...

Anyway, a two-fold suggestion (neither one requires the other though... either of these would be great if the other is not possible):

1) Improve the UI somewhere to show what difficulties of what quest you have already done. I think the best way to do this would be on the quest entry dialog where you choose Normal, Hard, or Elite... It would be sweet if the text or checkboxes for difficulties you had completed were in a different color or something.

2) Remove the restriction from running elite before first running normal and hard. This restriction has served it's purpouse and become an obsolete impediment to players getting the Max fun out of the game.

I mean... I have literally run waterworks probably 50 times... If I roll a new toon, do you really think I need to run it on normal and hard before I will be prepared enough to handle elite?

If my goal is to get to 6th or 8th level to try a new build in Necropolis, shouldn't I be allowed to go straight for the 50% XP bonus of elite to help make that happen in a fair but expedited way?

And especially note that everyone is already doing this... They just suffer a 5 to 10 minute annoying boredom penalty while they wait for an elite opener to join their party, or go open with a second toon. So removing this restriction (especially if this is a favor reward) will just remove down-time and get people playing and having fun more quickly.

Thanks for thinking about it.

nibel
09-14-2007, 06:52 PM
Funny. If i recall corectly, do it the way normal-hard-elite give you a better XP than just zerg it on Elite. 25% for solo-normal-hard, and 50% for elite. And except the longer ones (Waterworks, Tangleroot, etc...) you can finish it in minutes, what worth the trip.

My best low-level run for XP was not zerg on Elite everything. Was do all the quests 4 times. I jumped to lvl 3 in like... 2 hours. Or less, i do not remember.

I think that the norm-hard-elite rule isn't about "learn the way and do it again in a higher diff". I think it is "You already did this, and can do again in higher levels without XP penalty"

Paragon
09-15-2007, 06:24 PM
Its not that hard to get to level 3 in under 2 hours. You don't even have to touch hard or elite to hit level 3 in under 2 hours.

And what's to stop people from still running normal/hard if they want the first-time bonuses for those too?

I think elite should be openable on the first run mainly so that favor is not as much of a grind/wait for people to open thing. Its good for xp too if you just want to run something once and be done with it. And if you want the xp for norm/hard you can still run them.

VirieSquichie
09-21-2007, 03:02 PM
1) Improve the UI somewhere to show what difficulties of what quest you have already done. I think the best way to do this would be on the quest entry dialog where you choose Normal, Hard, or Elite... It would be sweet if the text or checkboxes for difficulties you had completed were in a different color or something.

I heartily agree with this part. The other part...meh...I don't think it's particularly broken the way it is.

I do think the game needs to be able to scale dungeons somewhat (or their rewards at least) to a party's overall strength. A level 10 quest on Elite for a party of paralyzer/vorpal wielding maniacs with 300 HP each is hardly difficult, where the same quest for a party of non-twinked, first-character players would be a significant challenge - possibly including a wipe or two as they tried to come up with tactics that worked in the stickier spots.

I've seen desert and gianthold quests done by both types of parties, and it's ...erm...highly inequitable... that they get the same (xp, treasure) rewards despite the enormous difference in relative difficulties.

tihocan
09-24-2007, 11:54 AM
There's already a mechanism that lets you open quests directly on elite, and it's actually pretty close to favor, since it's related to how much time you've invested into the game. It's called using an alt to open.
So people who have been playing for a long time and have many alts should be able to open the very large majority of quests on elite. The rest can usually be handled by just being a bit careful when leveling up, so you don't have to re-do normal and hard on low level quests once capped.

I'm not against changing it, but all I'm saying is that you can already do it currently, so it's not really a must-have feature either.

Hafeal
09-24-2007, 11:59 AM
1) Improve the UI somewhere to show what difficulties of what quest you have already done. I think the best way to do this would be on the quest entry dialog where you choose Normal, Hard, or Elite... It would be sweet if the text or checkboxes for difficulties you had completed were in a different color or something.

Yes. I have asked for this myself in an old thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=115822)


2) Remove the restriction from running elite before first running normal and hard. This restriction has served it's purpouse and become an obsolete impediment to players getting the Max fun out of the game.

I undertsand what you are saying but I am indifferent to this request. Good xp running at each level even when you are re-rolling.

Harncw
09-24-2007, 05:57 PM
I believe the suggestion of removing the current normal hard than elite restriction goes along with the original game mantra of "no grind"...

/signed

They want us to do favor (read grind)... but having to rerun goodblades at level 6 to get my fifth inventory space is annoying...

and using an alt is not an option if you solo

HumanJHawkins
09-24-2007, 06:11 PM
There's already a mechanism that lets you open quests directly on elite, <CUT> It's called using an alt to open.<CUT>

Ya, but that has three problems.

1) You can't do it solo.
2) You can't open series quests when your alt is not at the right part of the quest.
3) I don't want to spend even 2 minutes of my limited fun time logging someone in and running across town to open a quest.

I know there are workarounds for a lot of the issues that come up here. But this is about improving the game... Removing the need for kludgy workarounds is a huge area for potential improvements.

Sojourner
09-25-2007, 07:41 AM
This has been asked for over, and over, and over, and over again.

And, I'm still in favor of it.


Although not as much for XP reasons as for favor reason. If you want XP, just run the mission normal, normal, hard, elite - and that maxes out the xp.

For favor - there are two mechanisms I like as possibilities:
1) If you are X number of levels above the mission level, you can jump right in on elite. Obviously you're overpowered for normal on this mission, so why not open elite right away since it might give you a bit of a challenge.

2) If you have X amount of favor, you can open missions below level Y on elite. Say every 100 points of favor lets you open 1 level of missions on elite. 400 favor = missions level 4 and below.

.

Dirac
09-25-2007, 08:16 AM
Yes, yes, and again yes. "Unlocking" hard and elite is a concept whose time has passed. Sojourner makes some very reasonable suggestions for compromises. However, I don't understand why compromise is necessary since there just isn't any reason to have the restriction any more. It should be easier to remove the restriction anyway than to try to add additional conditions on how you can unlock hard and elite.

Please allow us to open any quest on any difficulty level.

Rekker
09-25-2007, 08:48 AM
Make it a favor award.

If you have a toon that is favor capped then you earn a reward that lets you access any quest on elite on your account. So all your toons get access to elite.

Devorpa
09-25-2007, 07:14 PM
I have lost track of how many of these threads I have replied to strongly advocating getting rid of the normal-hard-elite restriction.

And yet the community clowns come still come out saying that since you can do it with your L14 openers then it does not need to be fixed. That line of thinking would make most morons look clever.

Yes, I support the idea.
Yes, it should be linked to favour of your account (not the individual character).
Yes, it should be a high priority because it really irritates a lot of people who have already done waterworks ten times with their first few characters and don't mind a revisit, but not three times more.
No, you do not need to do every quest three times to get the xp to get to Level 14.
Yes, I got my third character to L14 by doing each quest once only (elite first time). I am currently working on my fourth doing the same thing.

MrWizard
09-25-2007, 09:02 PM
Funny. If i recall corectly, do it the way normal-hard-elite give you a better XP than just zerg it on Elite. 25% for solo-normal-hard, and 50% for elite. And except the longer ones (Waterworks, Tangleroot, etc...) you can finish it in minutes, what worth the trip.

My best low-level run for XP was not zerg on Elite everything. Was do all the quests 4 times. I jumped to lvl 3 in like... 2 hours. Or less, i do not remember.

I think that the norm-hard-elite rule isn't about "learn the way and do it again in a higher diff". I think it is "You already did this, and can do again in higher levels without XP penalty"

I hate the norm/hard elite thing....takes forever to level..

Going to elite first and ignoring all optional stuff (conquest, ransack) makes it very quick (ww takes a few minutes this way)....

Takes me very short time to level this way...it takes a bit to switch toons to open elite..infact, on many dungeons it takes longer to wait for the switch then to run it three times though..

You should be able to do all 1 and 2 levels elite in less than an hour and be almost 4th level....throw in some 3s and you are there.

However, I think as the OP stated, this is for quick power leveling and not for most users...maybe that is why they have not done that yet. I find a majority take the long way and repeat dungeons endlessly cause they like them and the xp....so maybe turbine won't rush it..

I for one agree with the OP....let those who want to level super fast open elite without any issues...people who want to do n/h/e can still do them 90 times...but it will allow power levelers with their 10th toon to race to 10th level in a much quicker time....

Due to finding members and time constraints it should shave 30 to 50% of the time so you can hit 10 in a week or less....

I agree it should be open to all toons if you have done it once before...it has served its purpose and it is not needed anymore.

my 2 copper pieces and 3 pence.

Spyder1228
09-26-2007, 02:06 PM
ive almost hit lvl 11 within 2 weeks...doing the n/h/e routine when i have had to. I personally dont mind it to much, and saying to do it now with a higher toon doesnt affect me any i started a month ago so my highest toon is 10, however i can run many quests on my own, especially the lower ones meant for favor. I cosign the idea with making it a favor theme to get rid of having to do n/h to get to elite, if nothing better than the one time thing. Ive done quests on my fighter that i will never do with my cleric simply because i hated them. or doing delera's on the n/h/e routine is nothing but aggravation.

GlassCannon
09-27-2007, 04:22 AM
Using the NHE method on Waterworks then STK then Tangleroot with a solid party of veterans that twinked the hell out of their characters you can get to level 5 in about 3-4 hours. SC/Delera's/Co6 for the next 8 hours and you are a level 8-9. 100% Zerg Mode.