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View Full Version : So about those Charms..



Khurse
09-13-2007, 07:38 PM
Hi all
OK so first build was Cowl, now my insanely powerful 8th level sorcerer with his 996 spell points.
(stop snickering)

Been having trouble finding PUG's recently (since 8th actually, everyone seems to have Pugs going to 7 or starting at 9/10..anyway) so tried soloing a few dungeons. Didn't really work that well
So switched out a few spells, biggest differnce was that I traded blur (iirc) for Control Undead- OMG it's a world of difference, swtiching between Control Undead and Charm I'm cutting my way through dungeons solo that used to stop me cold when I tried blasting my way through them. (They're all lower level than me right now but..)

So 2 questions
1) How does Charm monster work as a universal charm spell on non undead? I'm seriously thinking of switching the PK I took as my fourth level spell for this, just curious if it will work the wonders I'm expecting.

2) CAn you charm through things at high level? I'm thinking of trying out a Necro build from the Wiz forums, poster said it would work on aything- but it also seemed to have alot of high level top notch gear that I don't have.
So I'm wondering if I make a sorc or wiz (probably Drow) that concentrates on charm/necro will I be able to solo fairly well?
(Not saying I want to solo 1-14, though that might be cool, just looking for a caster to play around with when I can't find a group for Cowl)

MrCow
09-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Charm Monster can charm pretty much anything you've seen Hold Monster hold. (The critter needs an actual intelligence score, is living, and can be effected by mind-alterations).

Later levels have several quests that can be run partly or mostly with charms (especially a bulk of the gianthold quests). Mass Suggestion with a character like this will be your bread and butter and does wonders.

You DO need to have some form of damage spell (Likely Wall of Fire and Magic Missile as barebones) and some way to mitigate or avoid damage (Jump and Haste, Resist Energy) to take care of yourself in the non-charmable areas when soloing.

But, charm is a very cost efficient and effect tactic in solo or group play.

Renegade66
09-14-2007, 10:02 AM
I love charms and used to have Charm Monster, Dominate, Suggestion and Mass Suggestion. I've found though that you can cycle Suggestion and Mass Suggestion so fast that you don't need Charm Monster and Dominate.

You will get some resistance to your pink hats, so you really need to develop the skill to know when to use it and when to hold off.

First rule of charming is to carry the ability to uncharm (i.e. Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment). If you accidentally use an extended Suggestion on an orange boss that is required to kill to get completion, you're going to need to be able to remove it or live through a ration of grief from the rest of the party who now have to sit around for 2 minutes doing nothing.

Other guidelines:
* if your party is tearing through mobs and not taking much damage then don't charm anything.
* if your party is tearing through mobs but taking a lot of damage in the process then charm one or two to get the initial aggro while the melee types pick off one at a time.
* if you're going to be coming back through a certain area then consider not charming a lot of monsters because they will be uncharmed at the time you come back through (and it might not be the entire party when you do).
* if you're not going to be backtracking then feel free to charm. If you can get the melee'rs to hold off killing all the uncharmed mobs then they will just sit there and fight each other while you run past. The benefit is that the charmed mobs won't follow you and you won't have to worry about the charm dropping.
* alternately, you can have the melee'rs kill all the uncharmed mobs so that your pink hat army does follow you. The benefit is that you can position them at doors and have them take initial aggo, plus they can whoop ass for you in battle. The downside is that it adds to the mayhem and you can get ganked when the charm wears off. This is especially true for mass suggestion that is on a timer and not a save.
* related, suggest one of the mob before you use mass suggestions. two benefits, that are; 1) helps group them up for the mass suggestion, and 2) once the first guy's suggestion wears off you have advance warning that the rest will be popping soon.
* know your quest objectives. know when you can/can't charm an orange boss. know that if you charm a mob it won't prevent you from opening a door. all this going back to the first rule of charms.

In general, charms can be the most powerful spells in the game. However, I may go through a dozen quests before actually using one. Most times, you either have enough DPS to not have to worry about charming a mob that would simply be dead in 4 more seconds or you can simply FoD/PK, WoF your way through without much regard for mana.