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slumbering_dragon
09-04-2007, 10:10 PM
i see clerics bragging that they can cuer light for 200hp! well i want to be able to do that. i was thinking of going dwarf for a race but not sure. and is turn undead any good at the higher lvls? what is the maximum SP can u get before using any tomes? and what is the best spells that is usually casted? how should i preserve my SP at the higher lvls with barb with 500hp? what is the best feats to get? and hat kind of magid items should i be looking for?

Kalanth
09-04-2007, 11:14 PM
After what Impaqt showed me in the Usless Spells thread in general, I am going for a necromancy focused cleric that makes use of Poison and Contagion. That is a lot of quick and deadly CON damage there...

Other than that, you have a lot of questions and there are various answers.

1) Is turn undead any good at the higher lvls?
- Yes, but not in the way 99.9% of people think. It is NOT worth focusing on, but if you happen to have a decent Charisma and a sacred item as a byproduct of building your cleric then you can toss out a Turn now and then. The enemy is more likely to run in fear than pop, like most people expect them to do so. But they forget that you pretty much stop doing that at about lvl 10 in PnP anyways.
** Side benefit is you can use the turns for DV's, DH's, or DL's. **

2) ** Skip - not a mathmatician, so I have no idea **

3) What is the best spells that is usually casted?
- Highly opinionated here. Some will say Heal, others Destruction, others Harm. The best spell is the one you make the best use of. After having played a cleric to 14, I personally think the 7th lvl spell selection is lacking and don't mind sacrificing them in the sake of Multiclassing (11 / 3). But that is an opinion as well.

4) How should i preserve my SP at the higher lvls with barb with 500hp?
- Easiest way is just not to let them get low. Make sure to buff or that someone is buffing, and the barbarian should be fine. If that player is dying because they are just not playing well and being, for lack of a better word, stupid. Well, in that case you tell them to calm it down and take better care of themselves or the waterworks of cure spells goes away.

5) What are the best feats to get?
- See 3. This is an opinion question as well. For example, I won't splash 1 lvl of anything into a character just for one feature, so if I make a straight cleric I usually take Tower Shield Proficiency so I can increase the AC by that much more. Empower, Empowered Heal, Maximize, Heighten, those are all good. I believe it should be standard for a cleric to take Extend because of the buffs, and I have not seen an opinion to the contrary in a long, long time.

5) What kind of magic items should i be looking for?
- Devotion items, or anything that increases your overall casting. Wisdom gear is also good. Plan to melee? Start stockpilling maces, morningstars, clubs and sickles of all kinds. Look into Charisma items and the rest is pretty much open territory. You can live with none of these things, but life is easier with all of them.

Impaqt
09-04-2007, 11:40 PM
Being a Healer is pretty easy.... Its a Class thats always needed, and the Feat choice and pregression is pretty standard....

18 Wis, Decent CHR, and CON. Mental Tough, Improved Mental Tough, Empower Healing, Extend, Extra Turning. If Human, you've got a Feat to play with as well.... For a Dwarf, Your set.....

I'm probobly gonna repost my big Cleric guide here one of these days.... Been revising it a little bit trying to make it less objectionable to some folks....

Gennerik
09-05-2007, 07:47 AM
For a regular Cure Light Wounds, I think the maximum you should be able to cure without a character having an Improved Healing enhancement is 111 HP (with a Superior Lore item). Now, with Mass Cure Light Wounds, the current maximum is about 188, so maybe that's that they are talking about, unless they also have other feats active (Maximize Spell), otherwise they shouldn't be able to reach that high.

For SP, I'm not really sure, but it's probably somewhere around 1300, depending on your class makeup.

For Healing, I tend to stick to Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Heal, and Mass Cure Light Wounds. Offensively, I cast Cometfall, Searing Light, Blade Barrier, Greater Command, and then you have your buffs (mass ones are normally better, but there are some like Deathward that don't have a mass equivalent).

For conserving your SP, I normally use the lowest tier of healing spells for the squishier classes. Mass Cure Light Wounds works well when people are bunched up and after battles. For high HP characters or for Warforged, I normally use Heal and let them get fairly low. With Heal, I can cure 399 HP with Empower active, which is normally just fine for healing people, though it can get higher if I get a critical, but normally that's overkill.

For feats, I'd recommend getting at least Extend Spell and Empowered Healing. I have all three Improved Empowered Healing enhancements, as well as (Improved) Mental Toughness. I normally don't run out of SP, so I'm fairly happy with my Cleric, though I am missing the last tier of SP enhancements, so I could have a few more.

603CHAOS
11-04-2007, 12:34 PM
do devotion item's healing effectiveness percentages stack with the life magic enhancment's healing effectiveness percentages?

Blazer
11-04-2007, 01:42 PM
do devotion item's healing effectiveness percentages stack with the life magic enhancment's healing effectiveness percentages?

Yes, items and enhancements stack.

Actus_Purus
11-04-2007, 08:00 PM
Yes just make sure you max out wisdom at the start (I made the mistake of not maxing). For feats, mental toughness, empower heal, improved mental toughness, extra turning, and extend spell are always good; however, if you want to cast uber heals and cures rather than major buffs, I suggest dropping extend (which is really only helpful at low levels) and taking other meta-spell feats like empower or maximize.
As for magical items, devotion is good, but I think potency is better. Devotion and potency do not stack, but potency enhances ALL spells, not just healing. So its like devotion + all other spells. Power items to increase spell points are always useful as well, so I'd shoot for the black dragon scale full plate because it has Wizardry V (+125 spell points)

Hope this helps!
-Your friendly neighborhood cleric, Actus

Cowdenicus
11-04-2007, 10:06 PM
Yes just make sure you max out wisdom at the start (I made the mistake of not maxing). For feats, mental toughness, empower heal, improved mental toughness, extra turning, and extend spell are always good; however, if you want to cast uber heals and cures rather than major buffs, I suggest dropping extend (which is really only helpful at low levels) and taking other meta-spell feats like empower or maximize.
As for magical items, devotion is good, but I think potency is better. Devotion and potency do not stack, but potency enhances ALL spells, not just healing. So its like devotion + all other spells. Power items to increase spell points are always useful as well, so I'd shoot for the black dragon scale full plate because it has Wizardry V (+125 spell points)

Hope this helps!
-Your friendly neighborhood cleric, Actus

I did not max out wisdom on my original cleric, and could honestly say he is no worse the wear for it. Of course, I am the UBER so it does not really matter.

Pellegro
11-04-2007, 10:57 PM
extend is a fine feat up till level 7 or 8 or so, after that, I'd swap it out.

basically, you don't need 20 minutes of most buffs. there aer a few that the extend helps on (prayer and its upgrade whatever its called - recitation?) but in my view, there are better feats to take.

Actus_Purus
11-04-2007, 11:04 PM
I did not max out wisdom on my original cleric, and could honestly say he is no worse the wear for it. Of course, I am the UBER so it does not really matter.

well yes, but it only helps if you want good heals. good players can find their way around it. i didn't max and i can heal for 805 (not as impressive as some, but it gets the job done)

MrWizard
11-05-2007, 07:32 AM
well yes, but it only helps if you want good heals. good players can find their way around it. i didn't max and i can heal for 805 (not as impressive as some, but it gets the job done)

to continue this line of quotes....

The heal skill does not affect the casting of heals, so the high wisdom has nothing to do with that, as far as I know.

The heal spells and such are not affected by your wisdom modifier as far as I know, only by enhancements, feats, and items....so no matter what your wisodm the heals should be just as good.

A high wisdom versus a lower wisdom BARELY affects the amount of mana, so no loss there.

As far as I know, a real high or maxxed out wisdom helps with DC checks, wis rune in VON5, a nice will save, a higher heal and spot skill, and a few extra points of mana..... If you are not an offensive spell casting healer, I can see no reason to put a ton into wisdom .

To cast 8th level spells, you need a 18 wisdom I think...any extra points in wisdom are solely for a few spell points...diff between 18 and 34 wisdom spell points is about 184 spell points.....
Could you take the extra 16 stat points and add them to something else? Maybe make your guy helpful in combat or other things?

Unless you are going for DC checks on spells....low wisdom is okay...18-27 good range...

Heck, my cleric rogue started with a 9 wisdom and had to use owls potions to cast some spells at 2rog/1clr... Now he has 16 with a +5 item...
His heals are really high...and he does traps...and chests..and doors....and int runes....and dvs....and umds everything.....and tumbles....and ranges with a repeater....