PDA

View Full Version : Defensive Halfling Thrower (A build by request)



sigtrent
09-04-2007, 07:46 PM
From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=117232)

Build Name: Little Clemens
Author: Sigfried Trent
Requester: ErgonomicCat
Last Updated: 07/14/10

Key Words [Stalwart Defender, Halfling, Ranged, Tank]

Objectives
The original request was simply for a decent thrown weapons character. My first take on that was a defensive oriented halfling thrower, taking advantage of the ability to wear a shield while throwing. For the update I take that idea further by making a true tank with a thrown weapons focus.

Design
I started with the halfling due tho their throwing bonuses and defensive bonuses. As an intim tank, halflings would be perfect but that they get a four point size penalty to intimidate. Its not so much though that they can’t contend in that arena, they just don’t quite get to the pinnacle.

I liked the idea of the stalwart defender who could hunker down and pull in mobs with strong thrown weapon damage. As a ranged character it avoids all the things people hate most. Its not in the least bit squishy, wants as much agro as it can get, and it can barely move much less kite mobs (at least while in stance). To take advantage of the heavy armor, the usual halfling focus on dex is abandoned and its strength all the way.

The lower dex means that we can’t take improved precise shot which is a great DPS boon, but we can make every throw impact with pretty significant damage thanks to the weapon specialization lines and the halfling thrower damage lines. Thanks to Brutal throw we get to use strength as the attack score so you are plenty accurate.

AC is pretty much top notch here, HP is about on par with most tanks, and saves are about average for a fighter. Intimidate suffers a tad compared to other race tanks but is far better than any non-Stalwart build and easily reaches the targets you need for good tanking.

I also included Kopesh and slashing bonuses so that when mobs are up close you have a decent source of damage to work with. It comes a bit later in the build when you are more likely to get into true tanking. I also give a nod in enhancements to greatsword for a DPS option when you just don’t care about AC as much.

I think this is pretty unique in being a ranged focused true tank.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 372
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 9
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 24
Dexterity 12 15
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 10 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 13
Bluff 0 1
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy 0 1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 1
Heal -1 0
Hide 1 6
Intimidate 4 39
Jump 6 32
Listen -1 2
Move Silently 1 4
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 1 2
Spot -1 0
Swim 2 7
Tumble n/a 9
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Brutal Throw
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Throwing Axe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Throwing Hammer Specialization I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage III


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Throwing Axe Specialization II





Play
The idea is that you move in, throw down with the ranged and then tank em out when they come in close. Pick your spot and bring the fight to you. Of course in practice it may be better to throw and dodge, say when battling clerics with searing light on a ledge, but generally you like to stay put and deliver. Keep in mind an off hand seeker is a great way to up throw weapon DPS. With quick draw you can snap into defensive shield and kopesh quickly when stuff gets up close.

Variations
You can play around with the feats and weapon selection a bit. The whole Kopesh thing is very optional and not essential to the build. You could instead focus on two handed fighting or whatever you like. You could also go for more dex and take precise/improved precise but it complicates the armor situation and leads to an evasion splash etc... A whole different build paradigm starts to emerge there.

spifflove
09-04-2007, 10:03 PM
Looks good. Since you can get right up in a mobs face a rogue version could do some serious damage.

skyspirit
12-10-2007, 11:28 AM
Looks good. Since you can get right up in a mobs face a rogue version could do some serious damage.

YES! This appeals to me. I was wondering if you (or Sigtrent or anyone who feels inspired!) could help me out building a thrower but that's mostly rogue. Good traps abilities, high UMD, improved evasion, massive sneak damages.. I was checking out the 'way of the assassin' enhancement line. What is your opinion on this?

Also I guess I'd need to go partly fighter to get extra feats and martial and maybe armor mastery, but how would u split it, to keep as much rogue as possible?

I have 32 pts available, +5 mithril chain shirt, and will hopefully get the kundarak delving suit (crossing my fingers), am collecting a wide assortment of thrown weapons, have +6 dex and +6 str items... Could use +1 tomes but I'd rather limit that..

So anyway, if u can trow your ideas I would really appreciate that! :)

legonares
12-12-2007, 05:56 PM
why would you take 2 levels of paladin and not take charisma? You'd only get the +1 (or 2 not quite sure right now) to ac and saves where as if you took Charisma you could get 4-6 bonus to saves still 1 or 2 ac .

spifflove
02-18-2008, 12:40 PM
A rogue would only be slightly a modification of Sigtrent. I would go 2-3 paladin and the rest rogue or 2 paladin 1 fighter and the rest rogue. first I would drop strenght to 13 and put those two points into charisma, then I would need 3 more points for charisma, possibly from strength or con.

The feats Sigtrent uses are: Feats: Toughness, Dodge, Combat Expertise, Quick Draw, Weapon focus Thrown, Weapon Specialization Thrown, Improved Critical Thrown, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot

Well since you can only get 6 total feats at level 16 we have to eliminate what is not needed. Toughness goes first. Dodge is not needed. weapon specialization is impossible.

1. Combat expertise
2. quick draw
3. Wf thrown or point blank (since you will need to be close to get rogue damage pb is the better choice)
4. IC thrown
5. precise shot
6. improved precise shot

Edit: Actually what I would choose is this:
1. dodge
2. mobility
3. point blank shot
4. shot on run
5. weapon finesse (sometimes you have to fight)

I would tumble and backstab, lather, rinse repeat. Sorta a super acrobat with the blade.

sigtrent
02-19-2008, 05:34 PM
why would you take 2 levels of paladin and not take charisma? You'd only get the +1 (or 2 not quite sure right now) to ac and saves where as if you took Charisma you could get 4-6 bonus to saves still 1 or 2 ac .

The build would wear a charisma item and I take points in charisma advancement as well so ultimately you end up wtih 16 at higher levels which is +3 to all saves and +2 from the enhanced aura.

The real answer though is that this build isn't all that focused on saving throws. I started with offense via thrown weapons, moved into AC maximization and finaly added the rogue abbilities as a kind of bonus feature. If I wanted to have more Charisma I would probably lower dex to 16 and have a 12 charisma netting you +2 on saves and UMD over the origianal configuration.

sigtrent
02-19-2008, 05:39 PM
YES! This appeals to me. I was wondering if you (or Sigtrent or anyone who feels inspired!) could help me out building a thrower but that's mostly rogue. Good traps abilities, high UMD, improved evasion, massive sneak damages.. I was checking out the 'way of the assassin' enhancement line. What is your opinion on this?


I don't know that sneak attack and ranged weapons really work all that well together. You pretty much never get sneak attack when kiting (something thowers are good at), you loose out on attack speed which is a big deal for maximizing sneak attack damage, and you have to be up close and personal (less than 30') which means you may as well go melee as its going to be more effective.

If I did a mroe rogue oriented build I think I would make quite a large number of changes and shift the focus of the build to a mix of ranged and melee.

spifflove
02-25-2008, 12:14 PM
I don't know that sneak attack and ranged weapons really work all that well together. You pretty much never get sneak attack when kiting (something thowers are good at), you loose out on attack speed which is a big deal for maximizing sneak attack damage, and you have to be up close and personal (less than 30') which means you may as well go melee as its going to be more effective.

If I did a mroe rogue oriented build I think I would make quite a large number of changes and shift the focus of the build to a mix of ranged and melee.

While you are quite correct from a power gaming view, sometimes roleplaying for fun is the point.

But on a powergaming note the tumbling aspect can be quite a benefit, although I dont have time to test this idea it seems like it would work nicely. If nothing else you can hide behind a big shield and use block once aggro shifts.

sigtrent
02-25-2008, 12:55 PM
While you are quite correct from a power gaming view, sometimes roleplaying for fun is the point.

But on a powergaming note the tumbling aspect can be quite a benefit, although I dont have time to test this idea it seems like it would work nicely. If nothing else you can hide behind a big shield and use block once aggro shifts.

I like tumbling! Its not amazing but I find it very usefull and I try to get it to where all my characters can do the basic tumble. (for instance its great at moving through shallow water or cloud spells).

I'm kind of a wierd mix of power gamer and role player. I really like both. Some of my builds are pretty sub-optimal but I wouldn't want to make one that is truly weak in combat (or casting or whatever it is they do). I've tried a lot of ranged rogue stuff and in generaly I've never found it to be much "fun" as I rarely ever kill anything and hardly ever get sneak attack damage which for me is the fun part of fighting as a rogue. My rogue uses bows but he has two ranger levels and 24 str so I do pretty decent damage without sneak attack. If it were easier to find paralyzing throwers and the like I could see that... but they seem extreemly rare items.

Angelus_dead
02-25-2008, 01:00 PM
Armor Class (Kunderak Delving Suit Optimal): Dex 9, Armor 10, Deflection 4, Barkskin Potion 3, Dodge 1, Aura 2, Shield 7, Size 1, Combat Expertise 5 = 52
Usually a mistake to wear a shield on that guy. With the combination of low DPS and ranged kiting, few monsters will even be making attack rolls on him, so AC isn't important. The left hand could be devoted to increasing damage by carrying a weapon of either Backstab+5 or Seeker+10.

sigtrent
02-25-2008, 06:08 PM
Usually a mistake to wear a shield on that guy. With the combination of low DPS and ranged kiting, few monsters will even be making attack rolls on him, so AC isn't important. The left hand could be devoted to increasing damage by carrying a weapon of either Backstab+5 or Seeker+10.

A good point. I use seeker items when using throwing weapons myself.

spifflove
02-28-2008, 12:04 PM
Usually a mistake to wear a shield on that guy. With the combination of low DPS and ranged kiting, few monsters will even be making attack rolls on him, so AC isn't important. The left hand could be devoted to increasing damage by carrying a weapon of either Backstab+5 or Seeker+10.

For a throwing character you will get aggro if you get the backstab bonus. Since you have to be in close the shield is a benefit. I would even consider one level of fighter and a tower shield. (halfings will still hit fine)

Masadique
04-06-2011, 10:28 PM
How could this be adapted to a 34 point TR with fighter past life? I haven't been this excited about a character since I found out that monks had FoL.

unbongwah
04-07-2011, 10:08 AM
How could this be adapted to a 34 point TR with fighter past life?
What an amusing build to resurrect! :) I'll take a quick stab at it:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Hurlin' Tank
Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 13
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 17 20
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Throwing Axe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Throwing Axe Specialization II
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Max STR, almost full set of ranged feats inc. Imp Prec Shot (though no Brutal Throw on this version), should have pretty high DEX bonus (base 17 + 2 tome + 1 enh + 6 item = 26) and pretty good AC when fully geared. The idea is: use thrown weapons to draw hella aggro, use 2H weapon + PA when you need melee DPS, go S&B + CE only when you need to tank. She starts life as a throwing Kensai, then respecs into SD after getting CE.

Feats actually wind up pretty tight because of all the ranged reqs; in particular the last four feats are subject to debate. Losing GWF & SWF Thrown would cost +2 to-hit (& +1 dmg w/out Weap Spec II enh) and eliminates Kensai III as a respec option; losing Dodge costs a pt of AC; losing Shield Mastery costs you the dmg mitigation when tanking that SM will provide post-U9. So what to consider taking instead?


THF or TWF chain, of course, for added melee DPS. In the case of the latter you may want khopesh as well.
WF / WS / GWS Slash would also add melee DPS.
Imp Shield Bash for the extra DPS when S&B tanking.
Imp Shield Mastery if it boosts the dmg mitigation of shields higher.
EDIT: Brutal Throw for higher ranged to-hit (though I doubt it will be necessary)

This is just a first draft, though, so I'm sure it needs some work.