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Khurse
09-03-2007, 10:52 PM
Of course the easy answer is "Yes!" but..

Just hit lvl 6 with the Sorcerer (which reminds me-as Cowl is turning into my main (at level 6 yes I know) is there anyway to change the forum name from Khurse-Cowl? not really important -just curious)
Anyway so I get my first lvl 3 spell.

Now Cowl is geared towards the way I play, sort of based on a Nuker build in the sorcerer forums, but with a few minor differences.

Anyway for my own reasons I did not take extend (I can never make CC work to the groups benefit, whereas I'm much better at knowing when and where to nuke)
Despite this- pretty much every guide suggests I grab haste, and many of the PUGs I've gone on have asked me for haste (a lvl before I got it..but still)

At lvl 6 haste seems to last for 36 seconds, so the question for those of you in the know- is 36 seconds of haste (@20 SP/person) going to be a abetter group benefit than a Fireball or Lightning bolt?

I don't think I'd have any issues picking up haste around level 11 or 12, when (I assume) it lasts longer and I have hundreds more spell points, just wondering if at the low levels it's better for the groups than something that makes thing go "boom" directly.
Honestly I want something that makes things die,rather than a 36 second buff
but I'm having a fairly tough time finding PUG's that are looking for a 5th (or presumably 6th) level sorcerer , so if having haste gets me in the door for the groups I guess I can kill things with burning ray for another level or two...

Thanks for any comments as always!

Gelandor
09-03-2007, 11:41 PM
Hello!

I dont know about your first question, so I will skip straight to the main question.

To haste, or not to haste? That is the question.

Really, it all depends on you.

First off, its not 20 SP per person, it is an AOE spell, its 20 SP per cast, and you really only need to cast in battle.

In my opinion, haste is one of the most beneficial spells a party can have, it enables the melee fighters to attack faster, run faster, and it is helpful for the casters and clerics to get out of the way faster if needed.

But, if you feel you are a nuker, and dont want to take haste, dont. Play how you want to play. But I do promise that as long as you play this game, whatever group you are in, you will be asked for haste, and you will probably be criticized often for not having it.

There is my opinion, enjoy the game!

Arnya
09-03-2007, 11:59 PM
My answer is this: at that level, get the party members to buy haste scrolls and you can use them whenever they demand...

Torche my sorc has a comment in her bio that nobody ever questions:

I'm a weapon not a tool :)

Khurse
09-04-2007, 06:59 AM
Thanks!

Didn't know it was an AOE, think I'd rather have a nuke, but that makes it alot more palatable (I was thinking the thing would run out on the first guy before I cast it on the last guy so...)

And Thanks Arnya, I'm just not sure I'm popular enough yet to be different :D

Lorien_the_First_One
09-04-2007, 07:30 AM
You don't necessarily need haste as your first spell for that level. Scrolls and potions are equally effective at that level. You will however eventually want to pick it up. As the time goes up to a minute even unextended it is very valuable before key battles.

Mad_Bombardier
09-04-2007, 08:58 AM
You don't necessarily need haste as your first spell for that level. Scrolls and potions are equally effective at that level. You will however eventually want to pick it up. As the time goes up to a minute even unextended it is very valuable before key battles.ditto. :)

Strakeln
09-04-2007, 11:14 AM
My sorc does not travel slowly. If you know this and get close to him every two minutes and thirty seconds, neither will you.

I've been enjoying playing my cleric, except for that whole slow movement thing. Want heals? I want haste. Do we have a deal? Don't wanna haste me? No prob, I have a stack of 100 haste pots on me at all times. Hope you have 100 cure serious pots. :D

gorloch
09-04-2007, 08:08 PM
Haste spell and Extend feat, probably the most used combo I have ever seen in this game. I personally prefer to carry it myself.

PIXA

sirgog
09-05-2007, 01:36 AM
My suggestion - take it as your first or second third level spell. It's the most powerful 3rd level spell in a party of 6, and spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt are very dangerous, as they get you a lot of unwanted attention but don't do enough damage to kill most foes.

My Sorc took Suggestion at level 6 and Haste at level 7 and has been very happy with that combo. Even a nuke sorc will benefit from suggestion - it'll get the enemies to pile up attacking the charmed mob, at which point you can light them all up with a fireball or six.

Ghoste
09-05-2007, 02:22 AM
To haste or not to haste.

It's a bit of a boost for the tanks, so it all comes down to you caring whether or not they get that little boost or not. I dont. At lower levels, as a wizard, sometimes I carry it, sometimes I dont. At higher levels I dont really have anything else I'd prefer in that slot.

hannika
09-05-2007, 02:25 AM
spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt are very dangerous, as they get you a lot of unwanted attention but don't do enough damage to kill most foes.



this is a very true statement, while yes these spells are much more fun for the caster, you'll pull agro quickly using them. haste is my favorite spell in the game. period. even like it better than a disco party. but i don't expect a 6th lvl sorc to carry it.

Ghoste
09-05-2007, 02:44 AM
haste is my favorite spell in the game. period. even like it better than a disco party.
This has to be a melee character's perspective. Every tank I group with loves haste, lol.

From a caster's point of view, usually more along the lines of indifference. Haste makes you hit them 1 extra time in 4, so overall you're getting one more shot in than before amidst all their shots against you. Or, I could run ahead a little while you're fighting 1 group and throw 2 charms for the same amount of spell points. By the time you get over there and finish things up that 2nd group will have hit party members a lot less, and we'll have landed more melee damage thanks to the pets than if I'd hasted you and done a little carefully placed damage.

So why is it so many melees get irritated when casters use charm? It's all about the kill count. Many people are so into their build that they would rather have a higher kill count than work with the party.

I ran Parthicar Tower Crypt today with a group that consisted of two wizards, a sorc, a bard, a barb and a fighter. The fighter was so bent on rushing into every fight, ignoring the crowd control and firewalls set up to make it easier that he was costing the bard a fortune in wands and scrolls to keep him alive. I sent a tell to the bard "it's your call, but I would stop healing him until he learns to stick with the party's plan". 10 seconds later the fighter died. After waiting a bit to get to a shrine, he rezed, rested and got back about 30% of his health. The bard didnt give him any more until he finally began working with the party (he came close to dying a 2nd time before he realized that might be a good idea).

Citymorg
09-05-2007, 08:50 AM
I player nuker Sorcs. I have two of them, level 14 and level 8. I tried only to take spells that directly deal damage, specifically fire or ice.

With that said, I have found that there certain spells that are so useful/expected for you to have that it will get you kicked out of a party if you don't have them. Haste is one of those. However, as you pointed out, 36 seconds of haste is really not any better than 30 seconds.

I always take Fireball first, then Haste second. I do also eventually take the Extend feat because even at level 14, a 1:40 sec haste is hardly worth spending the spell slot over. 3:20 is worth doing by getting the melees moving that much faster and doing that much dps to everything you don't one-shot kill.

Anything else that isn't damage dealing that most people are going to expect you to have, I use a scroll for. This includes things like:
Jump
Greater Heroism
Dimension Door
Teleport
Greater Teleport
Ray of Exhaustion
etc.

Rowanheal
09-05-2007, 09:15 AM
Ok, so my guild screamed, "take haste" and so I did LOL

But I already had the extend feat due to the fact I had picked up resists as well.

I wish though that I had picked up heighten as a feat. It comes in handy with PK... but I think eventually we all get what we want.

Now I will admit to being a little peeved at being screamed at "haste now" every 2 minutes. And there have been times when I choose to just not do it, but overall it really helps a party to have the swords and axes swinging faster for more hits on the bad guys.

See ya in Stormreach,

-R

Mad_Bombardier
09-05-2007, 09:25 AM
Now I will admit to being a little peeved at being screamed at "haste now" every 2 minutes. And there have been times when I choose to just not do it, but overall it really helps a party to have the swords and axes swinging faster for more hits on the bad guys.Ok, here's whatcha do. Every so often, particularly at doorways and other stopping points, stop, count to 3 in your head, then throw out Haste centered on yourself. When others ask for Haste, calmly say, "sorry, you missed it." You'll soon have them all trained and salivating like Pavlov's dog at doorways/stopping points and cries for "HASTE!" cease. :D (Your choice to add in "here boys, good doggies" and commands of /sit as they are fully optional. ;) )

Citymorg
09-05-2007, 09:30 AM
Ok, here's whatcha do. Every so often, particularly at doorways and other stopping points, stop, count to 3 in your head, then throw out Haste centered on yourself. When others ask for Haste, calmly say, "sorry, you missed it." You'll soon have them all trained and salivating like Pavlov's dog at doorways/stopping points and cries for "HASTE!" cease. :D (Your choice to add in "here boys, good doggies" and commands of /sit as they are fully optional. ;) )

I know when haste runs out, probably better than the fighters do (I cast it after all). If I get melees screaming for haste, especially when I am busying killing, I will turn on extend (like I am going to haste) then grease 'em. By level 14 most characters don't fall unless they roll a 1, but it gets the point across and everyone laughs.

hannika
09-05-2007, 09:45 AM
This has to be a melee character's perspective. Every tank I group with loves haste, lol.



actually my main class is a bard who yes, does melee, but also casts it herself :) i cast soooo much haste in a dungeon, i try to keep my entire party hasted at all times. it's the best buff i can give. and i clamor for haste on my cleric more than i do on anyone and she doesn't even carry a weapon save her sup. potency VI lbow she's not proficient in and has no arrows for anyway.

and the only issue i have with charming is ppl that charm when they don't know that everything has to be killed before we can progress. i *hate* waiting for things to uncharm.

Mad_Bombardier
09-05-2007, 09:50 AM
and the only issue i have with charming is ppl that charm when they don't know that everything has to be killed before we can progress. i *hate* waiting for things to uncharm.Enchanter's Rule #1: If you're going to carry Charm/Suggestion, you damn well better carry Dispel/Break Enchantment. :D

juniorpfactors
09-05-2007, 10:01 AM
you wanta a group...just do this....put up an lfm

Delaras fast run..." I will extend and haste permantly" you will fill the group in 30 seconds

if you are a human Soc there is room for extend at 6 no ? asked if you are a drow ya you may think of going another direction...personally at 6 i had extend haste 24-7 going and maximized burning hands via mana and fireball wands as a back up to crush Delaras....I dropped extend at 14 for SF Necro, my guy is a nuker with solid finger and pk skills...heck of a lot of fun....but i recommend hasting the group extended...let them grab agro...get behind melees and torch the bad guys with Maximized burning hands and fireballs at that lvl range.......personally I have my "r" button hotkeyed to haste spells on my Soc and Bard and all my haste5x and 3x a day clickies for my melee characters

Borror0
09-05-2007, 10:25 AM
personally I have my "r" button hotkeyed to haste spells on my Soc and Bard and all my haste5x and 3x a day clickies for my melee characters

Good idea, autorunning is a pain anyay.

sirgog
09-05-2007, 10:36 AM
If I get melees screaming for haste, especially when I am busying killing, I will turn on extend (like I am going to haste) then grease 'em. By level 14 most characters don't fall unless they roll a 1, but it gets the point across and everyone laughs.


ROFLMFAO! Truly evil, truly hilarious.

Ghoste
09-05-2007, 10:37 AM
Enchanter's Rule #1: If you're going to carry Charm/Suggestion, you damn well better carry Dispel/Break Enchantment. :D
When you're high enough level to use them, globe scrolls work a lot better. 100% chance to dispell and if the tank killing them gets in over their head, they can just back out and the charm pops back on when the monster comes out.

The same scrolls also work great for melees who scream for haste. Give them their haste, and a few other buffs, charm up a big army, then drop a globe right behind them in the middle of a fight. Haste and other buffs - poof! Army of pets - suddenly turns hostile. Demanding tank - in over their head.

Dariuss
09-05-2007, 11:42 AM
Just my 2cp:

Haste is a useful spell.

BUT only take it if you want to carry it. NOT because people 'expect' you to have it.

Personally i have Haste, FB, LB, and PfE as my lvl3 spells. I am a nuker, who can also do some buffs and CC.

Whatever spells you take, eventually you'll realize you aren't usinf some of them very often, and can go back and swap out if you want.

Khurse
09-05-2007, 05:33 PM
Thanks all (and love the grease idea)
Really it's not (well it is) that I don't want to support the party- if I had made a Wiz I'd have haste no problems, it's that I only get the one spell..

That being said I did run with haste and a group in Dels last night (my first time there) Started out only casting haste at what I thought were big fights, ended up spending most of my time jumping aroun refreshing it when needed for the fighter types.
( I got a little depressed with my DD spells when a Maxed burning ray hit a skel for like 24pts of dmg and barely moved his health bar)

Anyway despite my aversion the spell, it seemed to work well enough for the group(although they would have probably had just an easy if not easier time without the newb asking "What am I doing now?" all the time lol ) that I'm almost to level 7 and will finally get my fireball.

Albel
09-05-2007, 05:53 PM
Personally I just add a disclaimer to my bio:

I Haste when I think/feel, or when asked.

I rarely am asked *shrugs*, and I forget I carry it a lot (hence the disclaimer).

Arnya
09-05-2007, 06:09 PM
A little comment on charming mobs: suggestion works on a timer so there is no chance you will be stuck waiting for mobs to save.

I actually keep a count in my head or use buff timers as a guide, and try to tell party members when theres 20-30 seconds left on a suggestion :)

sirgog
09-06-2007, 06:09 AM
A little comment on charming mobs: suggestion works on a timer so there is no chance you will be stuck waiting for mobs to save.

I actually keep a count in my head or use buff timers as a guide, and try to tell party members when theres 20-30 seconds left on a suggestion :)

Yep, I do that too. Oh how I wish suggestion capped out at under 60 seconds, am truly dreading when it starts lasting 84 sec (and nearly 3 min if I accidentally extend it).

Lyletuba
09-06-2007, 03:00 PM
But I do promise that as long as you play this game, whatever group you are in, you will be asked for haste, and you will probably be criticized often for not having it.

I avoided taking Haste on my FoD/PK Sorc for a long, long time. Every asked for it, all the time. Eventually I broke down and took it. I guess I just got tired of explaining that I have buff characters but this isn't one of them.

At lvl 14 it doesn't cost too much mana and if we pick up a caster with extend then they usually cover the Hasting. But I'd still prefer to use my mana to kill. Just more efficient for my build.

After all, you don't see me yelling at the Paladin to wand heal us during combat. Grab a cleric, a bard, a pally or a Wiz if you want buffs. If you want things dead, grab my Sorc.

Now people ask me for Resists all the time. No way. That's where I draw the line! :D

PurdueDave
09-06-2007, 03:28 PM
Some spells are just so damn good that they're tough to pass up. Haste is on that list. Another example is heal. That doesn't mean you need to "haste-bot", though.

Ghoste
09-06-2007, 03:52 PM
Some spells are just so damn good that they're tough to pass up. Haste is on that list. Another example is heal. That doesn't mean you need to "haste-bot", though.
Again, strictly a tank point of view IMO.

I dont mind obliging tanks now and then with haste, but the benefits absolutely pale in comparison to effective crowd control. Haste is a decent spell, IMO.Too damn good to pass up? Not really. There are situations where it is that great, but for most situations, no.

captain1z
09-06-2007, 04:47 PM
Just my 2cp:

Haste is a useful spell.

BUT only take it if you want to carry it. NOT because people 'expect' you to have it.

Personally i have Haste, FB, LB, and PfE as my lvl3 spells. I am a nuker, who can also do some buffs and CC.

Whatever spells you take, eventually you'll realize you aren't usinf some of them very often, and can go back and swap out if you want.







AWESOME ale truck darriuss!




also.....................

-I hate haste
-yes it is very useful
- people scream for it and I get annoyed
- it makes me feel like they want to come to my house, sit at my computer and play the game for me.
- my melees never ask for haste
- talking about haste gets me annoyed


but....agro = not good (my spellcaster does not carry nukes, I cripple the mobs and let the melees kill them...or let them kill themselves)
that is all