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View Full Version : Cha penalty not an issue of flesh?



Kalanth
09-02-2007, 12:17 PM
As I stood surrounded by dwarves in a PUG I thought about this question. When someone makes a Dwarven Bard, Sorcerer, or Paladin no one says anything about the hit to Cha. But when you do the same with a WF they cry foul and call you gimp. Is there a reason for this? Maybe I am just rambling on, but it is something I was thinking about today and figured I would discuss with the DDO community at large.

Mad_Bombardier
09-02-2007, 02:52 PM
As I stood surrounded by dwarves in a PUG I thought about this question. When someone makes a Dwarven Bard, Sorcerer, or Paladin no one says anything about the hit to Cha. But when you do the same with a WF they cry foul and call you gimp. Is there a reason for this? Maybe I am just rambling on, but it is something I was thinking about today and figured I would discuss with the DDO community at large.I can't say that I've ever seen a Dwarven Sorcerer. But, I have seen several WF Sorcs. /shrug

Casta
09-02-2007, 05:20 PM
I think most wf sorcs are more melee toons that can heal themself then real sorcs.

If i see a dwarf or wf sorc or bard I would think it was gimped, Paladins have -2 cha but that is balanced out by +2 con and some other nice things they have.

Quartzite
09-02-2007, 05:54 PM
The little picture next to people's names is hardly indicative of their character or playstyle. A Dwarf or Warforged works great for a Warchanter, or BattleSorc.

I think it is just the general stigma associated with robots. Remember Dwarven Bards or Paladins can heal themselves fully, WF Bards rely on UMD, WF Pallies rely on LoH. Though WF Sorcs are far more common than any kind of Dwarven Caster.

Kalanth
09-02-2007, 08:53 PM
Likely you are right, in that it does boil down to flesh. I went and made a dwarven Bard at one point and no one cared that I had done so. Not a single comment regarding the hit to the key attribute. I then rolled a WF bard with roughly the same stats to see how people reacted. People would constantly question the decision because of only the -2 Cha penalty. I ask them what they would say if I was a dwarf, and the people that were against the WF Bard were for the Dwarf Bard... They said the dwarf would make a "better character" than the warforged.

Freeman
09-02-2007, 09:17 PM
Some people will have that attitude about anything that doesn't fit their narrow definition of how characters should be created and played. From my experience, WF paladins are very hard to kill(Talking in quests, I don't take PvP seriously), thanks to the combination of immunities and high saves. Then again, some people would say it was a bad move to play a bard at all, no matter what race you picked. At least it lets you know who to avoid playing with again.

Hvymetal
09-03-2007, 03:57 AM
I think most wf sorcs are more melee toons that can heal themself then real sorcs.

If i see a dwarf or wf sorc or bard I would think it was gimped, Paladins have -2 cha but that is balanced out by +2 con and some other nice things they have.
I would say you may be mistaken on the wf sorc part. A Warforged Sorceror in a WF party can outperform the healing role that the cleric in a meatbag party does, more mana, faster cooldowns + they can nuke and umd by scroll anything else they need. Honestly the 2 points do not necissarily gimp any charcter it really depends on what they are built to do.

Riorik
09-03-2007, 05:14 AM
I think most wf sorcs are more melee toons that can heal themself then real sorcs.

If i see a dwarf or wf sorc or bard I would think it was gimped, Paladins have -2 cha but that is balanced out by +2 con and some other nice things they have.

I see your point since the +2 CON that the Warforged gets doesn't really match the Dwarven bonuses. :rolleyes:

Hvymetal
09-03-2007, 06:40 AM
I see your point since the +2 CON that the Warforged gets doesn't really match the Dwarven bonuses. :rolleyes:
And the rest of the imunities, 100% fort with a mod. fort item, ect.

RemoJr
09-03-2007, 07:42 AM
It all comes down to what people are and arn't used to seeing. Sense dwarves are considerd the uber race, seeing a dwarf is normal, regardless of it's class. Seeing an unusual class/race combo is outside the norm and as such people respond negativly about them.
A non-WF example would be my halfing paladin. He weilds a great axe and usues power attack. No he doesn't have the highest strength but he does well enough to get most kill counts in the group. However, dispite this fact, I still get raised eyebrows about it when poeple see him. They think why make a 2hander with a -2 str penaulty? Really, i've never noticed the difference between my guys slightly lower str and another paladin's slightly higher str.

Mad_Bombardier
09-03-2007, 11:02 AM
To add on to what others have said, I'd consider a Dwarf Sorc more gimped than a WF Sorc. Both have the same penalty to CHA. But, at least a WF Sorc has a big list of immunities and is a selfhealer (granted a UMD sorc of any race can also heal via wands and scrolls).

As for Bards, they are a different category altogether. They are only primary casters if specifically built and played that way. Likewise, they can just as easily be built and played as melee, healer, or buffers; none of which require max casting attribute. So, Dwarven and WF Bards are equally acceptable.

And yet, you rarely see a WF Bard. I suppose it's because their strengths lie elsewhere. Why play a healing class when you can play an Arcane class and self-repair?

Casta
09-03-2007, 05:13 PM
I see your point since the +2 CON that the Warforged gets doesn't really match the Dwarven bonuses. :rolleyes:

Only i was talking about both wf and dwarf together.

And ya i was wrong about the sorc, iv just never grouped with an all wf group so i didnt think about it.