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View Full Version : What's the point of Half Plate?



VeroZ
09-01-2007, 04:49 PM
This is more of a question out of curiosity, but what's the logic in wearing half plate over full plate? Here's a comparison,

Half Plate
Heavy Armor 50lbs.
+7 Armor Bonus
+0 Dex Bonus
-7 Armor Check Penalty
40% Arcane Spell Failure

Full Plate
Heavy Armor 50lbs.
+8 Armor Bonus
+1 Dex Bonus
-6 Armor Check Penalty
35% Arcane Spell Failure

So I'm thinking in my head, "It's a half plate, it's gotta weigh less!" Nope. Lower armor check penalty? Nope. ASF? Nope. Not even a dex bonus? This would be fine and dandy if half plate was classified as medium armor because then the mithral versions wouldn't be so bad, but alas this is the reality?

Am I crazy or is there some logical DnD explanation for this?

Tanka
09-01-2007, 04:52 PM
Look at the base prices.

Half Plate is more affordable until you get a huge chunk of gold in your lap.

dragnmoon
09-01-2007, 04:55 PM
It makes more sence in D&D then DDO.

It is a Poor mans Full-plate. At half the price of Full plate it is much more afordable. Since in DDO money does not mean that much it really iss just useless in comparison.

Edit: Eeekk Tanka Beat me!

riexau
09-02-2007, 12:33 AM
Potentially the best looking armor in the game.

Beyond that.. meh.

Knightrose
09-02-2007, 04:16 AM
I think Scalemail is the best looking armor in the game. Especially the Black Dragon.

But Scalemail blows.

'You've got to have your lepers so you can enjoy beauty more.'

Gennerik
09-02-2007, 07:23 AM
Potentially the best looking armor in the game.

Beyond that.. meh.

Potentially the second worst looking armor in the game as well, next to that peacock splintmail....

But in DDO, there really isn't a point to having half the armors in the game. Sometimes that even happens in DnD, since there are some armors that are based on time periods, and the reason why some armor is clearly better than others is because it came out later and basically replaced the other.

FoeHammer
09-02-2007, 11:58 PM
A good question....

but a better question is: Why would anyone in their right mind make MAGICAL HALF PLATE?????????

Sure there will be tons of junky 50 yr old half plate for all the town militia and 1st level fighters to wear - but who buys MW half plate and then spends the time\$$\Exp to enchant armor that no one will wear?

smodge13
09-03-2007, 12:31 AM
A good question....

but a better question is: Why would anyone in their right mind make MAGICAL HALF PLATE?????????

Sure there will be tons of junky 50 yr old half plate for all the town militia and 1st level fighters to wear - but who buys MW half plate and then spends the time\$$\Exp to enchant armor that no one will wear?

Frank
frank is a town guard who wears masterwork halfplate, one day frank does a job for a wizard and instead of paying him the wizard enchants the halfplate, realizing his luck frank sells the halfplate and buys fullplate, it may have less AC, but at least frank made a profit off it.

SaberMonkey
09-03-2007, 12:39 AM
It is included because it is viable in the pen and paper D&D game. In DDO it makes no sense.

captain1z
09-03-2007, 12:50 PM
NONE. Like most armors outside of Mith chain, Full Plate. If you are wearing anything else its just for the look.....My wizards, rangers and rogues wear mithril chain shirts....my fighters and clerics wear full plate.....never made a barb..but if I did I would wear mith or multi class and use plate. Nothing else really has a point to me.

Riggs
09-04-2007, 07:04 AM
Ringmail, half plate, splint mail - these are the things you would find town guards wearing, poor soldiers, or random bad guys who didnt have cash. Also a beginning player who rolled low on their 3d6x10 gold roll, and couldnt afford both a weapon AND armor, so had to make do with whatever piece of armor came along until they had a couple levels and enough cash to buy some plate mail.

Being as such armor is in the game, and random loot tables could be applied to anything, it is possible to find magic versions of mediocre armor. But what self respecting wizard would spend weeks or months of time enchanting a high level suit of splint mail or half plate? Sure maybe someone needed something and is far from town and makes due with what they have. But really finding quite so much of it with level 10 enhancements can be fairly depressing.

Much like the 1000s of '+4 Dex, +5 bluff gloves', or +3 str, +7 intimidate belts'...if its level 13 just put all one enhancement on it please. +3/+5 to a skill actually makes the item less useful and not more, but does succeed in making +6 stat items rare....

I think in general, most people would be happy to find less magic items....but when they do find them they are actually useful rather than 99% vendor trash.

In most chests, I would just rather have the gold value than yet another +2 Ghost touch shield of acid resist....how about I just take the 30k gold rather than have to sell a 30-50k item that is not worth carrying around in your inventory. (Or at least have end rewards have a 'cash out' value...if the NPC offerers nothing useful, the last item is the base cash value, so you can just take gold/plat rather than 'what is the most expensive item in your bad list so I can go sell it 5 seconds after...')

Prinstoni
09-04-2007, 07:30 AM
I understand the basis behind enchanted half plate, but why is there half plate made from rare materials like mithral and adamanatine?

That one gripes me.

Like my +5 sacred mithral half plate of lesser cold resisistance. Bah :(

7 armor, 2 dex bonus

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=119873

jjflanigan
09-04-2007, 08:33 AM
I understand the basis behind enchanted half plate, but why is there half plate made from rare materials like mithral and adamanatine?

That one gripes me.

Like my +5 sacred mithral half plate of lesser cold resisistance. Bah :(

7 armor, 2 dex bonus

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=119873

James

James is a town blacksmith, was planning to retire. He had no children to leave his smithy to, so he was just going to close up shop. One of his last orders was for a set of mithral fullplate. Once this order was completed, he had some mithral remaining. Not liking any of the competition smithies in town and not having enough mithral to make another full set of plate, James decided to use the last remaining mithral to make a set of half plate. This half plate was sold to Frank who, as we saw earlier, got it enchanted as payment from a wizard.

Tanka
09-04-2007, 08:51 AM
Ringmail, half plate, splint mail - these are the things you would find town guards wearing, poor soldiers, or random bad guys who didnt have cash. Also a beginning player who rolled low on their 3d6x10 gold roll, and couldnt afford both a weapon AND armor, so had to make do with whatever piece of armor came along until they had a couple levels and enough cash to buy some plate mail.
Actually, as far as I've seen, no starting character can have enough gold for a set of full plate.

Garth_of_Sarlona
09-04-2007, 09:17 AM
James

James is a town blacksmith, was planning to retire. He had no children to leave his smithy to, so he was just going to close up shop. One of his last orders was for a set of mithral fullplate. Once this order was completed, he had some mithral remaining. Not liking any of the competition smithies in town and not having enough mithral to make another full set of plate, James decided to use the last remaining mithral to make a set of half plate. This half plate was sold to Frank who, as we saw earlier, got it enchanted as payment from a wizard.

James should have used that mithril and made a chain shirt, or a helmet, or a buckler. Would have sold for more.

Garth

Mercules
09-04-2007, 10:03 AM
In PnP D&D money comes into play a LOT more than in DDO. Most Fighter characters start out with Scale mail, a Wooden Shield, and a solid weapon. If lucky they start with Chainmail. In that setting, buying or finding better armor is a big deal. In a setting like DDO where +1 Full Plate can be bought/found by level 3 even by a non-twinked character then the other armors have little to no value.

I've played in a few campaigns where people have given away their non-magical Full Plate for the +3 Half Plate they found. How did the +3 Half Plate get made and enchanted, well, if you think about it, ancient ruins include ancient treasures including magical version of the best armor of the time. It's very possible that thousands of years ago Half Plate was the best armor you could put together, as technology advanced they could provide better joints for armor and Full Plate evolved, but that ancient plate you found in the ruins, was Half Plate and magical.

This is also why some people advise not giving your players too much too fast. If treasure didn't drop like it does, other armor types might mean something. Could you imagine if finding +1 scale was an upgrade for you at level 2-3 instead of more vendor trash? What if +1 Full Plate was something you had been looking for at level 5-6 instead of just running to the broker and buying +3 Full Plate and selling back the ugly ones till you found a look you liked? :D

DSL
09-04-2007, 10:18 AM
James

James is a town blacksmith, was planning to retire. He had no children to leave his smithy to, so he was just going to close up shop. One of his last orders was for a set of mithral fullplate. Once this order was completed, he had some mithral remaining. Not liking any of the competition smithies in town and not having enough mithral to make another full set of plate, James decided to use the last remaining mithral to make a set of half plate. This half plate was sold to Frank who, as we saw earlier, got it enchanted as payment from a wizard.


James should have used that mithril and made a chain shirt, or a helmet, or a buckler. Would have sold for more.

Garth

Exactly (or better yet a breastplate- but in fact the half plate would require as much mithril as a suit of Full Plate). The PHB armour tables are something of a joke, as many of the armour types are essentially never used except as RP flavor. Ultimately, the only amours I've ever seen used (or at least actively sought-after) by PC's are: Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Breastplate, Hide and Full Plate. Cost is a marginally effective balancing factor at best, and then only for the first few levels. Hopefully, one good thing that will come out of the upcoming 4th ED D&D rules will be a more interesting, balanced and versatile armour list.

Tanka
09-04-2007, 10:22 AM
Also consider a lot of the listed armors flat-out do not exist in the real world. A Chain Shirt is (in real life) Chainmail.

DSL
09-04-2007, 10:47 AM
Also consider a lot of the listed armors flat-out do not exist in the real world. A Chain Shirt is (in real life) Chainmail.


They do make a somewhat believable distinction between chain shirts and chainmail (chainmail is more extensive, being a longer shirt with some leg/hand protection and perhaps a coif). However, the artwork in the PHB depicting the various armour types is, well, shall we say, creative...

ErgonomicCat
09-04-2007, 11:07 AM
Really, it comes down to this in the PnP game too.

Dex fighters wear mithril breastplates or mithril chain shirts. Heavy fighters wear full plate. Casters and others get AC bonuses other ways.

No one buys chain mail, scale mail, splint mail, etc.

Heck, I've read a lot of threads that basically say "medium armor is useless" and it pretty much is, except for adding mithril to breastplates....

oogly54
09-04-2007, 12:33 PM
As for why a set of full plate is the same weight and dex bous, FP is supposed to be disigned for the person wearing it, making it more form fitting and flexable. Of course this can hardly be the case here in this game since finding a set in a chest (that in itself is weird, how big is that chest that had 4 sets of armor and two tower shields) seems to fit just fine.

Mercules
09-04-2007, 12:42 PM
As for why a set of full plate is the same weight and dex bous, FP is supposed to be disigned for the person wearing it, making it more form fitting and flexable. Of course this can hardly be the case here in this game since finding a set in a chest (that in itself is weird, how big is that chest that had 4 sets of armor and two tower shields) seems to fit just fine.

Man you people are literal. I'm supposed to be the concrete thinker here. ;)

The Developers explained, long ago, that the chests are often not chests. They are a representation of searching an area for useful items. The monsters do not store those items in a chest(certain exceptions exist) but instead that is what you found when you looted the body or searched the nearby rooms.

This is why we find Bloodknuckle's Smasher in a chest instead of in his hands, it was actually in his hands, but the party scooped it up with the rest of the useful items and it was randomly handed out.

Tanka
09-04-2007, 12:43 PM
This is why we find Bloodknuckle's Smasher in a chest instead of in his hands, it was actually in his hands, but the party scooped it up with the rest of the useful items and it was randomly handed out.
Which makes it doubly funny that sometimes you find one, and another person in the party finds one too.

Mercules
09-04-2007, 01:16 PM
Which makes it doubly funny that sometimes you find one, and another person in the party finds one too.

Yes, it does, but that is the silliness of MMOs. How many times does Arlo get captured in a day? Hasn't Hazidel learned to lock up his warehouse tighter and hire some guards to protect his crates? Why did I have to give up the Seal of Shan-To-Kor to the Wayfinder when I'm a Chaotic Neutral Wizard who would love to wield the power of an artifact. How did so many super-powerful Seals get made anyway?

Tanka
09-04-2007, 01:18 PM
Yes, it does, but that is the silliness of MMOs. How many times does Arlo get captured in a day? Hasn't Hazidel learned to lock up his warehouse tighter and hire some guards to protect his crates? Why did I have to give up the Seal of Shan-To-Kor to the Wayfinder when I'm a Chaotic Neutral Wizard who would love to wield the power of an artifact. How did so many super-powerful Seals get made anyway?
Yeah, MMOs are rather difficult to get to be Persistant. I mean, you can do it, but if there's any sort of alignment system, it becomes that much harder.

Emili
09-04-2007, 01:30 PM
Actually PnP is a very very different... armour affects movement rates and skills and ac a lot more in PnP then in DDO. DDO is also Monty Hall in that more enchanted stuff is flying arround then you can shake a stick at. In PnP more clerics I knew used half-plate due to it being cheaper and normaly thier dex being closer to that of the normal man - ie.) 10. Thinking back in version 2.0 of PnP DnD I had a very high level ranger 20+ in levels and she wore elven chains or sometimes even leather. DDO only included these other armours to have them like PnP but they're a lot less useful here.

I personally like the looks of most splint and brigadine etc... they come in very pretty colors and design in DDO

Talon_Moonshadow
09-04-2007, 02:00 PM
Actually PnP is a very very different... armour affects movement rates and skills and ac a lot more in PnP then in DDO. DDO is also Monty Hall in that more enchanted stuff is flying arround then you can shake a stick at. In PnP more clerics I knew used half-plate due to it being cheaper and normaly thier dex being closer to that of the normal man - ie.) 10. Thinking back in version 2.0 of PnP DnD I had a very high level ranger 20+ in levels and she wore elven chains or sometimes even leather. DDO only included these other armours to have them like PnP but they're a lot less useful here.

I personally like the looks of most splint and brigadine etc... they come in very pretty colors and design in DDO

DDO is not Monty Hall! not on what drops from the chests.
There is a lot of Magical stuff floating around in the game because of all of the high level players passing down their junk for others to have. And especially because of the lvl cap....which means that instead of having the typical lott of a 14th lvl toon......after doing POP 200+ times, you now have the loot of the 20th lvl toon that you would be if you had continues to gain all of that XP.

The drop rate for chests is fine....infact because there is so much loot available from auctions and venders the drop rate in chests sucks......it is so rare that I find anything in a chest that I keep......even the nice stuff, is only kept to pass down to my lowbies......all of the good stuff is bought.

I think the Auction houses are the worst thing in this game. (well after the lvl cap I suppose)

I have lowbie toons on some other servers without a high lvl toon to get loot and money from....and I don't buy plat from farmers......those toons feel so gimped to me, because they never get anything good.....whille the guy next to me is swinging a beautiful Dwarven axe with white flames coming off of it.....just doesn't campare the the +1 kama that I got from the last chest we looted...........

Mercules
09-04-2007, 02:27 PM
DDO is not Monty Hall! not on what drops from the chests.
There is a lot of Magical stuff floating around in the game because of all of the high level players passing down their junk for others to have. And especially because of the lvl cap....which means that instead of having the typical lott of a 14th lvl toon......after doing POP 200+ times, you now have the loot of the 20th lvl toon that you would be if you had continues to gain all of that XP.

The drop rate for chests is fine....infact because there is so much loot available from auctions and venders the drop rate in chests sucks......it is so rare that I find anything in a chest that I keep......even the nice stuff, is only kept to pass down to my lowbies......all of the good stuff is bought.

I think the Auction houses are the worst thing in this game. (well after the lvl cap I suppose)

I have lowbie toons on some other servers without a high lvl toon to get loot and money from....and I don't buy plat from farmers......those toons feel so gimped to me, because they never get anything good.....whille the guy next to me is swinging a beautiful Dwarven axe with white flames coming off of it.....just doesn't campare the the +1 kama that I got from the last chest we looted...........

DDO is borderline Monty Haul. I've started characters on other servers. I've played Permadeath and in Barebones. Barebones is about the closest I can get to the type of play I see in most PnP games, even so my Barbarian/Cleric found a +1 Longsword at level 2 in a chest.

My WF Fighter 1/Rogue x found a +1 Acid Rapier of Deception in a chest at a level he could use it. Then again he probably won't be replacing that any time soon.

If you play in a Guild with rules that you may not buy items from the AH or Brokers, or twink down plat or items then DDO is actually a LOT of fun and challenging.

BlueLightBandit
09-04-2007, 02:52 PM
/invites Frank to PvP.

/signs petition to nerf Frank.