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View Full Version : Every quest should have a Muckbane!



Dariuss
08-29-2007, 06:25 PM
Now i don't mean every quest should actually give out Muckbanes, what i mean is every quest should have something that makes it 'worth' running.

Durk's Secret gets run alot more than it normally would, if it wasn't the only place to get a Muckbane.

Some quests get run because they are easy fast XP (information is key), some get run for the end rewards (ww, stk), and a couple get run for the rare drops (durk's).

So, I think every quest that doesn't have awesome xp or great end rewards needs it's Muckbane: It's rare thing that makes people want to run it.

Maybe this would help stop the "grind ww/stk/delera's/sc/threnal/etc.. and complain about lack of content" mindset that some people have.

MDS_Geist
08-29-2007, 06:41 PM
The Pit has Muck's Doom and it is not run very often at all. So while every quest should be worth running the answer may not be in items.

ahpook
08-29-2007, 07:26 PM
The Pit has Muck's Doom and it is not run very often at all. So while every quest should be worth running the answer may not be in items.

It may not be run often, but I think it would have been run a lot less if there wasn't a muck doom to try for. I know I would have run it 20 less times :)

(Also the absence of slimes in the desert and gianthold was probably a factor in reducing the need for muck doom for many poeple. )

Wizzly_Bear
08-29-2007, 08:00 PM
The Pit actually has several reasons for people to run it. The chance of picking up an improved muckbane has already been mentioned, but also of note is the fact that it gives very nice xp as well as favor. In fact, IIRC, it has nearly the highest amount in the game, and it's only level 7... A big difference between the two is the requisite platforming element of the pit, and also the fact that durk's is much lower level and has a solo difficulty. Personally I cannot wait until I get a character with a high enough jump so I can try to solo it b/c I actually enjoy it from time to time. I think a previous poster (ajhook) hit the primary reason why the pit is not run often; the fact is, at that level you really dont need a better muckbane. Just use two muckbanes and you're good to go. My wizard dw muckbanes and he can barely hit the broad side of a barn.
To the OP... while I certainly would not protest the addition of more cool gear, I would, personally, rather see them add more content. Even more than that though, I await the day when we can respec our characters more completely so we no longer have the need to 'reroll' because of the latest nerf to our beloved character(s).

LogannX
08-29-2007, 11:04 PM
It won't get rid of the grind. Powergamers are all about the grind. thats all they want to do. more oober loot wont ever change that. Sure more quests will get run but it will still be speed runs, dont fight run, know the way, BS as usual.

joracie
08-29-2007, 11:09 PM
The Pit has Muck's Doom and it is not run very often at all. So while every quest should be worth running the answer may not be in items.

The pit is not run by people becuase they are lazy. I love the pit! awesome favor and decent XP plus muckdoom and its easy. I understood it by the second time and lead group through it by about the 5th time(still not as good as the person who taught me though!). Its a really fun quest once you get use to it! heck I'd even put it on my top 5 quest list.

on topic more I agree, every quest in the game if not every chest should have some sort of named drop. And you can mix it up a bit, A level 16 item dropping out of WW or a level 2 item dropping out of a higher level quest. Some should be common and decent and some should be rare and powerfull.

Ghoste
08-29-2007, 11:16 PM
A big difference between the two is the requisite platforming element of the pit, and also the fact that durk's is much lower level and has a solo difficulty.
The pit does have a solo difficulty: it's called "normal".

Hehe, just teasing. Don't forget about the docent and robe of acid, not huge, but great for people who use melf's now and then.

Tenkari_Rozahas
08-29-2007, 11:24 PM
on topic more I agree, every quest in the game if not every chest should have some sort of named drop. And you can mix it up a bit, A level 16 item dropping out of WW or a level 2 item dropping out of a higher level quest. Some should be common and decent and some should be rare and powerfull.

oh, level 16's out of WW would be nice, but level 2's out of higher end quests and people would be throwing up a bigger uproar than the shadow crypt series.

Aranticus
08-29-2007, 11:27 PM
the reason no one farms muckdoom is not because its a lousy weapon. the OP failed to see the most important reason here.... which is the ease of getting the particular item.

note:

res ring - used to be real easy, running all the way down, kill boss and lackeys, rinse and repeat (until doors were put in)

muckbane - run to 1 brother, kill, use lever, run to muck

planar gird/chaosgarde/reaver ring - run to end of xorian part1, massive firewall, enter. kill everything, run both rooms, get keys, do brothers, run past traps, kill scorp, get key, run to chest room, disable trap, loot.

all these items were farmable as the amount of time expended is short

Wizzly_Bear
08-30-2007, 08:51 AM
haha Ghoste =P Indeed it is theoretically possible to solo it on normal, if you have a high enough jump; and those items are pretty nice to, for the level, but i doubt people generally farm for those.
I still hold that part of the reason why muckdoom is not farmed as much as other named loot in the game is that ooze bane becomes much less important at that point in the game; however, I believe Aranticus more clearly articulated what some of us had been referencing as another portion of the reason. The ability to "mass produce" the item by speed running is indeed a factor. I can solo durk's for muckbanes in 5 minutes starting around 5th level, but even knowing the pit fairly well, my best time has been 37 minutes, IIRC.
As a side note...Aranticus, you may want to change up your strategy just a bit if you're soloing for muckbanes. I have personally had many times where Muck did not spawn after the first brother/lever but did after the second brother/lever. In fact, most of my farms have come from completion runs, and around 5th level, that equates to roughly 2-3 additional minutes, more Mucks, more muckbanes, and plus you get completion so you do not have to wait for the 5 minute reset.

In_Like_Flynn
08-30-2007, 09:22 AM
... what i mean is every quest should have something that makes it 'worth' running.The warm feeling of a job well done.

Dariuss
08-30-2007, 11:10 AM
The warm feeling of a job well done.

Well that's fine for me :) I was thinking about other people.

I dunno... I would just like to see more peple doing different quests that's all.

My other idea was to add a 10% xp reduction every time you repeat a quest - BUT I figured that wouldn't go over as wel las adding more loots :D

Wizzly_Bear
08-30-2007, 07:12 PM
We already get xp reduction upon completing quests. The first repeat we lose the first time bonus of 25/50%, second -10%, third -15% more, et cetera.

Gennerik
08-30-2007, 07:23 PM
haha Ghoste =P Indeed it is theoretically possible to solo it on normal, if you have a high enough jump; and those items are pretty nice to, for the level, but i doubt people generally farm for those.
I still hold that part of the reason why muckdoom is not farmed as much as other named loot in the game is that ooze bane becomes much less important at that point in the game; however, I believe Aranticus more clearly articulated what some of us had been referencing as another portion of the reason. The ability to "mass produce" the item by speed running is indeed a factor. I can solo durk's for muckbanes in 5 minutes starting around 5th level, but even knowing the pit fairly well, my best time has been 37 minutes, IIRC.
As a side note...Aranticus, you may want to change up your strategy just a bit if you're soloing for muckbanes. I have personally had many times where Muck did not spawn after the first brother/lever but did after the second brother/lever. In fact, most of my farms have come from completion runs, and around 5th level, that equates to roughly 2-3 additional minutes, more Mucks, more muckbanes, and plus you get completion so you do not have to wait for the 5 minute reset.

I think the real reason why most people don't farm The Pit is because it takes 20-30 minutes to solo for a very low chance to get the the Muckdoom. I know I've run it well over 50 times and have yet to get that lousy club. And actually, to solo it, you really don't need a good jump. You can get by with just a Haste Potion.

Wizzly_Bear
08-30-2007, 07:31 PM
Genn...I have about 50 runs to, and while I have yet to pull one, I at least have seen someone else get it (not sure if that's better or worse, lol). I had previously thought that it was simply a myth.
On to more important things though.....then how do you solo it? I cannot for the life of me get my wizard through the 3rd furnace area (solo) despite being able to buff him up to a 42 jump.

Dariuss
08-31-2007, 11:49 AM
We already get xp reduction upon completing quests. The first repeat we lose the first time bonus of 25/50%, second -10%, third -15% more, et cetera.

Isn't the third time through -10%, and the fifth time through -20%?

blakbyrd
08-31-2007, 12:18 PM
Now i don't mean every quest should actually give out Muckbanes, what i mean is every quest should have something that makes it 'worth' running.

Durk's Secret gets run alot more than it normally would, if it wasn't the only place to get a Muckbane.

Some quests get run because they are easy fast XP (information is key), some get run for the end rewards (ww, stk), and a couple get run for the rare drops (durk's).

So, I think every quest that doesn't have awesome xp or great end rewards needs it's Muckbane: It's rare thing that makes people want to run it.

Maybe this would help stop the "grind ww/stk/delera's/sc/threnal/etc.. and complain about lack of content" mindset that some people have.


In a way I agree, although from an overall view of the game, I'm not sure that would be so great. The game is already flooded enough with named and semi-unique items, making a fairly large portion of items unwanted as it is. To add in another potentially 50-80+ such special items would greatly deminish the value of tons of stuff, and make loot largely even more undesirable. Maybe I am wrong, but that is just how I see it.

Wizzly_Bear
08-31-2007, 12:43 PM
hmm, not sure Dariuss. If I'm doing xp runs then I obviously don't pay much attention to it b/c I only do 1 or 2 runs, but if just fdoing favor/loot, then I also don't pay much attention. IIRC, on normal, it goes +25%, +0%, -10%, -20%, -35%, -50%... with all %s applied to the base starting xp of the quest and elite having the same progression except that the first value is +50%. So from the starting line we have -25% for first repeat, additional -10% for second, additional -10% for third repeat (4th time through), additional -15% for 4th repeat...

jjflanigan
08-31-2007, 12:53 PM
Genn...I have about 50 runs to, and while I have yet to pull one, I at least have seen someone else get it (not sure if that's better or worse, lol). I had previously thought that it was simply a myth.
On to more important things though.....then how do you solo it? I cannot for the life of me get my wizard through the 3rd furnace area (solo) despite being able to buff him up to a 42 jump.

I have a video I made a long time ago when I was soloing the pit a lot. There are videos of the entire run, but the only one you'll probably want to view is the "tutorial" one for the 3rd furnace room (wasn't really made as a tutorial at the time, was just made because no one believed me ;) ).

Note that when I do this, my character has a jump skill of 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDfYRBas8nA

ArkoHighStar
08-31-2007, 01:35 PM
I think the devs are doing this now on all newer high level quests, that are at least considered long or very long. all the main gianthold and desert quests have chests that have the ability to drop a named item. They even went back and put it in Twilight Forge as well. Mod 5 is no different as all the main quests are now showing giving these named items. The more sought after chests will become the new farming runs, just as Xorian, Wiz King and POP once were.

EazyWeazy
08-31-2007, 01:56 PM
The Pit has Muck's Doom and it is not run very often at all. So while every quest should be worth running the answer may not be in items.

I ran it once on elite for favor and Muck's Doom. Got both the first try and never went back.

:D

Wizzly_Bear
08-31-2007, 02:00 PM
Well I'll be durned!.....never saw that pipe before jff, thank you very much! =D

Dariuss
08-31-2007, 02:11 PM
In a way I agree, although from an overall view of the game, I'm not sure that would be so great. The game is already flooded enough with named and semi-unique items, making a fairly large portion of items unwanted as it is. To add in another potentially 50-80+ such special items would greatly deminish the value of tons of stuff, and make loot largely even more undesirable. Maybe I am wrong, but that is just how I see it.

No i agree. I did think of that too.

The last thing I'd want is to add to the Monty Haul-ed-ness (I made up a word!) of the game.

On the other hand though, I just hate seeing half the content go to waste alot of the time.

What if favor was tied to advancing through the game?

Like:

You have to have 50 favor to get into the marketplace?

And 100 favor to get into any of the houses?

And 400 favor to get into the Desert? Maybe 600 for GH?

Then people woudl have to do a variety of quests. AND new people would feel like they are acheiving something, sort of moving through the phases of the game.

muffinlad
08-31-2007, 04:10 PM
What I would like to see is more of the quests tied together for semi-predictable end rewards.

All of the Troglodyte quests could be tied together, much like STK or Tangleroot, for a set of nice, but not overpowering items that bind, and perhaps give a unique aspect to the costume or look of a toon.

Regs,

muffinlooter

Dariuss
08-31-2007, 04:30 PM
What I would like to see is more of the quests tied together for semi-predictable end rewards.

All of the Troglodyte quests could be tied together, much like STK or Tangleroot, for a set of nice, but not overpowering items that bind, and perhaps give a unique aspect to the costume or look of a toon.

Regs,

muffinlooter

oooh.. i like that idea too

Say, you do Sunken Sewer, missing in Action, and Freshen the Air- go talk to so and so who gives you a reward.

Or, just tie it into zones:

Do all the Harbor quests, talk to Zin, get a cool reward (somehting on par with WW end rewards, but with different named items)

Do all the Marketplace quests, talk to - i dunno, somebody, get an STK elvel reward (again, with different named items).

Same with each house.

That way, you get a favor reward AND an item reward. So people who are more into items have a reason to broaden their horizons a bit :)

Wizzly_Bear
08-31-2007, 10:40 PM
I like it Dariuss. Brilliant.

GHOSTRYDER
08-31-2007, 11:55 PM
the reason no one farms muckdoom is not because its a lousy weapon. the OP failed to see the most important reason here.... which is the ease of getting the particular item.

note:

res ring - used to be real easy, running all the way down, kill boss and lackeys, rinse and repeat (until doors were put in)

muckbane - run to 1 brother, kill, use lever, run to muck

planar gird/chaosgarde/reaver ring - run to end of xorian part1, massive firewall, enter. kill everything, run both rooms, get keys, do brothers, run past traps, kill scorp, get key, run to chest room, disable trap, loot.

all these items were farmable as the amount of time expended is short

THIS cracks me up every time i read it, you do realize that them adding the doors made the rez ring loot run take about 20-30 seconds longer, right? i mean the key is 20 ft from the door, and you dont even have to kill anything to get it:rolleyes:

Ghoste
09-01-2007, 12:48 AM
THIS cracks me up every time i read it, you do realize that them adding the doors made the rez ring loot run take about 20-30 seconds longer, right? i mean the key is 20 ft from the door, and you dont even have to kill anything to get it:rolleyes:
Not only that, but with Greater Teleport having Restless Isles as a destination, you dont even have to complete HIPS to do that run anymore.

Krow
09-01-2007, 02:21 AM
I remember way back when everyone was still trying to figure out the worth of items/weapons. When having plat/gold was just enough to buy from the vendors.

I never had luck at getting a muckbane. Then one day(around July '06ish), a guy in the group happened to mention he had 3. I had no idea of the actual value to pay someone, and had nothing worthy to trade for it. So I asked if he would sell me one, putting the ball in his court, and learn and hope to afford me one of those essential(epecially at that time!) weapons. But he in turn asked me what I was willing to pay. So I offered 6K plat(had 40K or so).
Mind you way back then plat was not as powerful as useful items to trade for. He paused and half-giggling replied "are you sure?". I figure he thought I was nuts to pay that much. So I said I would buy 2 for 12K plat. He agreed and afterwards actually thanked me for my generosity! Little did many know at that time that slimes/oozes would be an oncoming plague in everyone's future. Ahh, the memories of those who had them proudly wielding them, while others foolishly split them and ruined their good weapons.

About muck dropping in more quests. I would say no.
The muckbanes that exist to this day have all been tediously gained with dedication and numerous attempts. If you feel the need to have one, there are ways to get one by trade/buy/farm etc., the same way everyone sacrificed their time, $$, or items.

I do find it odd that there are other ooze-bane drops, but 99% of them are not clubs or blunt weapons. But it seems to be that way, thus showing the value of the Muckbane/Muckdoom. Also why so many have put in the extra effort to get one to this very day.

It is really one of very few items that survived from the very start of DDO, that hasn't been nullified with numerous replacements. Let us not tarnish the value of one of few, if not the only item, that still remains as such!
Just my 2/3 of a cent.

GHOSTRYDER
09-01-2007, 12:52 PM
I remember way back when everyone was still trying to figure out the worth of items/weapons. When having plat/gold was just enough to buy from the vendors.

I never had luck at getting a muckbane. Then one day(around July '06ish), a guy in the group happened to mention he had 3. I had no idea of the actual value to pay someone, and had nothing worthy to trade for it. So I asked if he would sell me one, putting the ball in his court, and learn and hope to afford me one of those essential(epecially at that time!) weapons. But he in turn asked me what I was willing to pay. So I offered 6K plat(had 40K or so).
Mind you way back then plat was not as powerful as useful items to trade for. He paused and half-giggling replied "are you sure?". I figure he thought I was nuts to pay that much. So I said I would buy 2 for 12K plat. He agreed and afterwards actually thanked me for my generosity! Little did many know at that time that slimes/oozes would be an oncoming plague in everyone's future. Ahh, the memories of those who had them proudly wielding them, while others foolishly split them and ruined their good weapons.

About muck dropping in more quests. I would say no.
The muckbanes that exist to this day have all been tediously gained with dedication and numerous attempts. If you feel the need to have one, there are ways to get one by trade/buy/farm etc., the same way everyone sacrificed their time, $$, or items.

I do find it odd that there are other ooze-bane drops, but 99% of them are not clubs or blunt weapons. But it seems to be that way, thus showing the value of the Muckbane/Muckdoom. Also why so many have put in the extra effort to get one to this very day.

It is really one of very few items that survived from the very start of DDO, that hasn't been nullified with numerous replacements. Let us not tarnish the value of one of few, if not the only item, that still remains as such!
Just my 2/3 of a cent.

i dont think youre following the thread here, op didnt mean that actual muckbanes should drop in any other quests, he meant, that it would be nice if every quest had it's OWN version of the muckbane, muckbane being a metaphor for "reason to run the quest repeatedly", whether it be another unique item of some sort, or some other reason

Krow
09-01-2007, 06:52 PM
i dont think youre following the thread here, op didnt mean that actual muckbanes should drop in any other quests, he meant, that it would be nice if every quest had it's OWN version of the muckbane, muckbane being a metaphor for "reason to run the quest repeatedly", whether it be another unique item of some sort, or some other reason

You are right.....I must have just focused on the thread title. I apologize to the OP for mis-guiding his thread.

I actually agree with your opinion......Maybe not every quest, but an increase of these types of items would have more quests run with a real purpose.

Dariuss
09-03-2007, 01:10 AM
Yeah no worries Krow.

I kinda realized something further to this topic: I was running through some harbor quests the other day, and I got a named guy pop up, and I got a trinket from him - +1 WIS. Sorry, I forget which guy it was.

BUT

It got me thinking... there three or four named items that pop up in Kobold's New Ringleader alone. Plus, I think each stat has a named +1 trinket (Moog's Bauble, etc..) that pop in the various harbour quests.

So there's alot of cool items out there. But no ones cares.

This lead me to think that maybe the "complete a set of quests, get a special reward" item from above might be the best way to encourage more quest variety.

sirgog
09-03-2007, 06:05 AM
I have a video I made a long time ago when I was soloing the pit a lot. There are videos of the entire run, but the only one you'll probably want to view is the "tutorial" one for the 3rd furnace room (wasn't really made as a tutorial at the time, was just made because no one believed me ;) ).

Note that when I do this, my character has a jump skill of 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDfYRBas8nA

This video was amazing, remember watching it after the first time I tried the pit (leader was inexperienced and group weak so we wiped twice and gave up).