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Mad_Bombardier
08-29-2007, 02:15 PM
No, this is not a snarky reply to the other thread in DevDiscussion today. This is different proposal. But, that thread got me thinking about spontaneous casting.

I would like for Clerics to get "sorcerer fast-cast" animations for their 7 Cure x Wounds spells. Reason? Those spells are automatically memorized and supposed to represent spontaneous casting ability. The slow casting animation on Cure spells in DDO is far from spontaneous. I suggest treating that one spell per level as a Sorceror spell for casting animation speed. Note, that this would not apply to Heal as Heal is a memorized/chosen spell. It would only apply to automatically memorized Cure x Wounds and Cure x Wounds:mass spells.

Thoughts, comments?

RavenStormclaw
08-29-2007, 02:46 PM
No, this is not a snarky reply to the other thread in DevDiscussion today. This is different proposal. But, that thread got me thinking about spontaneous casting.

I would like for Clerics to get "sorcerer fast-cast" animations for their 7 Cure x Wounds spells. Reason? Those spells are automatically memorized and supposed to represent spontaneous casting ability. The slow casting animation on Cure spells in DDO is far from spontaneous. I suggest treating that one spell per level as a Sorceror spell for casting animation speed. Note, that this would not apply to Heal as Heal is a memorized/chosen spell. It would only apply to automatically memorized Cure x Wounds and Cure x Wounds:mass spells.

Thoughts, comments?

Very valid point. I read the whole long cures spells should be free thread and I very hearitly disagreed with that. But this. I think is reasonalbe. Clerics are healers by their very nature and that is the crux of the issue: nature. Sorcs are natural spellcasters to an extent thus the advantages they have. I beilieve granting clerics the faster cast times on thier "innate" cure spells would not overpower them and yet would add great versatiltiy.

Cowdenicus
08-29-2007, 03:03 PM
/signed
/agree

Finally something to agree with the Mad one about.

Mad_Bombardier
08-29-2007, 03:08 PM
/signed
/agree

Finally something to agree with the Mad one about.:eek:

ddooooooooommm!!! :p

Cowdenicus
08-29-2007, 03:08 PM
:eek:

ddooooooooommm!!! :p

Isnt that first D supposed to be capitalized? :eek: :D

PurdueDave
08-29-2007, 03:10 PM
/signed
/agree

Finally something to agree with the Mad one about.

Hell just froze over.

Arjen
08-29-2007, 03:11 PM
I'd love to see this happen.

As it stands now I'm seriously thinking about taking quicken spell on my cleric.

Cowdenicus
08-29-2007, 03:12 PM
Hell just froze over.

No it hasnt, I still dont have my founder title. When I get that, then officially hell will have frozen over.

Mad_Bombardier
08-29-2007, 03:12 PM
P.S. Blade Barrier casting animation should be 2 second "short cast" as Wall of Fire, not 4 second "long cast" as Symbols/Otto's Dance party. Short Duration needs to = short cast. Alternatively, I will accept medium or long duration and you can keep the longcast animation. Thank you. :)

Belfalcon
08-29-2007, 03:15 PM
I have 2 lvl 14.4 clerics zaptear,belmorn... and i feal that the casting time is just right... i have not problems with it..

No, this is not a snarky reply to the other thread in DevDiscussion today. This is different proposal. But, that thread got me thinking about spontaneous casting.

I would like for Clerics to get "sorcerer fast-cast" animations for their 7 Cure x Wounds spells. Reason? Those spells are automatically memorized and supposed to represent spontaneous casting ability. The slow casting animation on Cure spells in DDO is far from spontaneous. I suggest treating that one spell per level as a Sorceror spell for casting animation speed. Note, that this would not apply to Heal as Heal is a memorized/chosen spell. It would only apply to automatically memorized Cure x Wounds and Cure x Wounds:mass spells.

Thoughts, comments?

arminius
08-29-2007, 03:16 PM
Rats, just when I finally got the Boss Fight Cast-Wand-Cast-Wand-Cast-Wand-Cast Rhythm down, with the Potency scepter in the left hand and the wand in the right, on my new level 4 cleric, somebody comes along with this idea!

Faster cure casting sounds tempting, though I think I haven't learned enough spell point preservation skills yet. I'm afraid if I cast cures faster I'd just run out of SP faster. I guess getting on those preservation skills is more of a priority than I thought, huh? :)

_

PurdueDave
08-29-2007, 03:20 PM
No it hasnt, I still dont have my founder title. When I get that, then officially hell will have frozen over.

lol

Beherit_Baphomar
08-29-2007, 03:29 PM
I'd love to see this happen.

As it stands now I'm seriously thinking about taking quicken spell on my cleric.

Quickened will be well worth it come MOD 5.

and /signed.

If its spontaneous then it should fire off the top of your head like you didnt even have to think about it. The Cure XXX Wounds cooldown and cast animation times are way, way too slow.

Beherit_Baphomar
08-29-2007, 03:30 PM
No it hasnt, I still dont have my founder title. When I get that, then officially hell will have frozen over.

LOL....this is true.

Dirac
08-29-2007, 03:35 PM
I think this is an excellent idea. Fast casting for the healing spells required to bring along. Some may feel they don't need it, but is that not because they have already worked out a speed-dial system on their keyboard for a set of healing spells?

This is a very good, reasonable idea.

Arjen
08-29-2007, 04:21 PM
Along these same lines - should bards not also cast at the same speed as sorcs as they also cast spontaneously?

Spontaneous casting in 3.5 is as follows (please correct me if I'm wrong here):

Sorc spells
Bard spells
Cleric Heals
Druid Summon Nature's Ally

Arnya
08-29-2007, 04:28 PM
Well, to agree but add something:

I just cycle to lower level spells in between cooldowns...

That way I feel like I'm casting like a sorc... (or spam close wounds - WF hate that hehe)

Gypsy_Mouse
08-29-2007, 05:16 PM
It's strange that healing takes so long.
I always thought if the Cure wounds spells were supposed to be "spontaneous" that they would be instantaneous.

However, when you look at the actual definition of "spontaneous" it has to do with lack of premeditation, planning or preparing.

So I suppose that does actually fit how Cure spells work and instant reponse is something I read into it.

I still think our Cure spells should be faster. Close Wounds casting is how fast I'd like to see them go (it's the instantaneous I thought Cures should be), but don't know if that would be too overpowering. ~shrugs~ I cycle through spells, wands, and scrolls as best I can.

Close Wounds makes me laugh each time I use it. :D

In_Like_Flynn
08-29-2007, 05:17 PM
Spontaneous casting means the ability to spontaneously convert a non-healing spell into a healing spell. It does not speed up the casting of the converted spell. Nor should it.

Dariuss
08-29-2007, 05:20 PM
yeah, i would agree with that

TreknaQudane
08-29-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't think it should be changed.

The "spontaneous casting" isn't the speed at which they can do it, it just refers that instead of memorizing a heal spell to cast they just CAN when needed (which is why I smack anyone playing a good cleric that actually memorizes a cure in pnp)

Belfalcon
08-29-2007, 05:44 PM
ya just let the healing casting times stay the way it is i don't think this is something that is needed

Lorien_the_First_One
08-29-2007, 06:06 PM
If they fix quicken so that it works as it is supposed to (ie - lets you cast 2 spells in the time you can otherwise cast 1) then the problem is somewhat solved.

The other issue that should be addressed is there is absolutely no reaosn why a L1 spell should cast slower than a L9 spell. All spells with a 1 action duration shoudl take the same time.

Mad_Bombardier
08-30-2007, 11:22 AM
Spontaneous casting means the ability to spontaneously convert a non-healing spell into a healing spell. It does not speed up the casting of the converted spell. Nor should it.Yes, but Turbine gave Sorcerors (one of 4 spontaneous casters) the ability to "fastcast." It's not in D&D and is their own creation as the DM. It serves as the difference between prepared casters and spontaneous casters in a SP system (where everyone casts 'spontaneously'). I was asking for Cleric cures, and as later noted, Bard spells (and even Druid Summons some day) to also be "fast cast."

The bigger issue is certainly casting times. 1 standard action does not apply in DDO. Different spells have short, medium, and long cast animations depending on spell level, persistence of the spell, and spell type. It unnecessarily slows down spell casting when we already have a cooldown system to regulate spells per "round"/time.

At any rate, good discussion so far. Keep the thoughts and comments coming! :)

Zenako
08-30-2007, 11:48 AM
Lets turn the table slightly here.

Change the casting time for Healing spells. mmm Works for the characters.

how about those mobs who heal themselves too or have their allies do it. It can be hard enough even now to get ahead of the healing on some of them, imagine if their allies could heal them twice as fast. Will make things a LOT more challenging in some encounters.

If it were in place, it really only should be the "Cure" spells, ie the ones locked in place. Being able to spam HEAL would be overpowering in my opinion. You can get to a nice sweet spot with healing cycles, HEAL, CCW, Scroll, HEAL, CSW, CMW, HEAL, etc. with a little practice.

Mad_Bombardier
08-30-2007, 11:55 AM
Lets turn the table slightly here.

Change the casting time for Healing spells. mmm Works for the characters.

how about those mobs who heal themselves too or have their allies do it. It can be hard enough even now to get ahead of the healing on some of them, imagine if their allies could heal them twice as fast. Will make things a LOT more challenging in some encounters.Challenging is good. :) But, I'm not talking about the cooldowns, just the casting animations. And since enemies don't make concentration checks (but can be interrupted by extreme damage), it won't change that aspect of the game.


If it were in place, it really only should be the "Cure" spells, ie the ones locked in place. Being able to spam HEAL would be overpowering in my opinion. You can get to a nice sweet spot with healing cycles, HEAL, CCW, Scroll, HEAL, CSW, CMW, HEAL, etc. with a little practice.Yup, that is what I proposed to begin with.

MtnLion
08-30-2007, 11:57 AM
I think this is an excellent idea. Fast casting for the healing spells required to bring along. Some may feel they don't need it, but is that not because they have already worked out a speed-dial system on their keyboard for a set of healing spells?

This is a very good, reasonable idea.

Yep, I have to agree that casting/cooldown for cure xxx spells should be halved, since they are a natural spell for clerics, but only for clerics (not bards, etc.). On the other hand, I have always resorted to the "speed-dial" method to overcome the cooldowns.

Zenako
08-30-2007, 12:05 PM
So you would prefer to see the healing effect from a CURE spell act more like the Lay on Hands from a Paladin does. Click it...do it. Then recover. More of a change to how Quick the first spell goes off, not the overall rate of healing since if the cooldown remains the same the rate will not be changed much at all.

I know there have been many times I had a party member go down while I was "casting the CURE" on them (and then HEAL myself again...sigh...yah I might have been hurt a little, but more likely CLW level of hurt not HEAL level of hurt so those extra 300+ points of healing were a waste...)

Mad_Bombardier
08-30-2007, 12:13 PM
So you would prefer to see the healing effect from a CURE spell act more like the Lay on Hands from a Paladin does. Click it...do it. Then recover. More of a change to how Quick the first spell goes off, not the overall rate of healing since if the cooldown remains the same the rate will not be changed much at all.

I know there have been many times I had a party member go down while I was "casting the CURE" on them (and then HEAL myself again...sigh...yah I might have been hurt a little, but more likely CLW level of hurt not HEAL level of hurt so those extra 300+ points of healing were a waste...)Yes, exactly. I would like Cures to be the "less than 1 second-snap my fingers-boom-done" animation. :)

parvo
08-30-2007, 01:50 PM
No, this is not a snarky reply to the other thread in DevDiscussion today. This is different proposal. But, that thread got me thinking about spontaneous casting.

I would like for Clerics to get "sorcerer fast-cast" animations for their 7 Cure x Wounds spells. Reason? Those spells are automatically memorized and supposed to represent spontaneous casting ability. The slow casting animation on Cure spells in DDO is far from spontaneous. I suggest treating that one spell per level as a Sorceror spell for casting animation speed. Note, that this would not apply to Heal as Heal is a memorized/chosen spell. It would only apply to automatically memorized Cure x Wounds and Cure x Wounds:mass spells.

Thoughts, comments?

Clerics are already an incredible class. They don't need free quick casting. Besides, there is already a feat for that. And yes, if you ever bother to try it, you will find it can be useful. Uniteruptable fast healing via quicken spell is sometimes > empowered healing. The changes to metamagic make a combo feasible.