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View Full Version : Divine Vitality - still useful?



Blazer
08-28-2007, 01:08 PM
With the lack of new content I've had the chance to look more closely at my cleric and some of her minor flaws are starting to bother me more and more. I've been thinking I can build a better version of her given what I know now these days (say, actually putting points into Balance and not into Heal, for example). When I sat down to work a new version on paper, I came to this point - do I bother building for DV and thus, investing in CHA?

My cleric was built in early Mod 1 and was built with 14 CHA. She's at 12 total DVs currently. She started as a utility/support cleric and has evolved more into an offensive casting/healer role. The past few months her DVs more often than not go wasted. Rare are the occasions where she has people asking for them, even rarer are the times when people need them. Of late, she's been giving them out to bards/rangers and sometimes even paladins.

Given the current state of the game with sorcs approaching 2000 SP, wizards over 1400 SP, SP potions seemingly offered every other end reward, hell even a raid where the boss mob GIVES you more SP, is there any reason to build a new cleric for DV?

Zenako
08-28-2007, 01:11 PM
Do you also have DH? or DL? I tend to use DH a lot on some quests, while on others the DV's to the casters make life easier and safer for all. I did trim back the enhancements so I only have 10 per rest now and spent those AP on other things. I have level III in all the above.

Yvonne_Blacksword
08-28-2007, 01:12 PM
I give my dv's to everyone...
(Juin is a bit of a sl##)
give them to wizards (because it looks like more:rolleyes: )
sorcerers
other clerics
rangers (if they help with resists and barks)
Palidins...
anyone without a full blue bar..
in that order...lol.
I get rid of them early so I can say no later...(:rolleyes: )

They can help.

Blazer
08-28-2007, 03:26 PM
Do you also have DH? or DL? I tend to use DH a lot on some quests, while on others the DV's to the casters make life easier and safer for all. I did trim back the enhancements so I only have 10 per rest now and spent those AP on other things. I have level III in all the above.

I've tried DH, didn't really care for it. DL was thoroughly unimpressive honestly. All DL did for me was draw a lot of aggro that I didn't want.

Perhaps I posted this in the wrong forums. Maybe General or the Wiz/Sorc forums would be better. When I was looking for more input as to if people thought DV was still needed/useful, I guess I should have looked to ask the recipients of the DVs and not the suppliers of the DVs. I'll still take other cleric's opinions, however.

Club'in
08-28-2007, 05:18 PM
I have all the divines. They all have a good situational functionality.

Divine Healing - Works through gates and such, not line of sight either. Excellent for dungeons like Maze of Madness, where one or two party member are on the other side of a dropped gate. (or PoP, for that matter, if you're pulling the switch) But damn I hate the sound being spammed for the next 30 seconds. Is that really necessary? Hope it doesn't annoy the melees too much.

Divine Cleansing - less useful now that there are Remove Curse wands. But a nice mana saver for yourself for removing stat damage, curses, poison, paralysis, even flesh to stone on a party member.

Divine Light - You really need to chain this with Mass Cure Moderate. Alternating between DL and MCM will help get you through all those dreaded Necropolis quests with ease, and have you wondering what all the fuss was about. I'm definitely upping this to level 3 before Mod 5.

Divine Vitality - for when the other three don't apply. And yes, I'm usually dropping it on barkskinning rangers, resists casting pallies, and such. Or if one of the arcanes is completely out of mana.

moops
08-28-2007, 05:36 PM
If you are not using them, then you have your answer :)

Though you might want to hold onto your DVS until after the new content hits, I've found DVs to help alot when exploring new areas, etc.

I personally use DVs alot because of the content that I am running and also because I tend to go in with a caster/cleric to clear first, or duo and trio stuff. My first cleric has 13 good DVs, my 2nd cleric has 7 so so DVs and I wish that she had more. I also run with a 2nd cleric in group a lot lately because people are leveling them and getting them Reaver Ready. And I do alot of Scale runs where it is me and the caster until other guildies can join group--so even though there are alot of shrines in there, it helps me get through it fast to DV the Spellcaster so that they can Flesh to Stone everything.

Some of the quests are considerably easier with the Clerics/Casters using Destruction, Slay Living, Flesh to Stone, FOD and PK on everything, and I'm glad that I can fill them up.

Hafeal
08-28-2007, 05:47 PM
Great questions. I recently reset my enhancements. In that change:

Divine Vitality
I kept DVs, although I wonder why at times as well. Overall the SPs given to a caster, esp Sorc, is paltry. That being said, in quests with few shrines, even with mana conservation, casters need the love from time to time. I think you get fair bang for your buck with them.

Divine Healing
I loved DH. Unfortunately most other players have no clue what it is or how it works - even after you explain it. I would use it and the melees, peaved I wasn't healing them "fast enough" would still drink pots or wand whip.

Divine Light
DL. A joke. Creates aggro and does not do enough damage, especially on hard or elite to warrant its use, and do you really need it on a normal run? You can rank this right up there with the Cleric's "turning" ability in my book. Talk about nerfed. If they made it so DL critted at a healthy clip - maybe. And only maybe.

Divine Cleansing
I have never taken it. Between pots, wands and spells I did not see the point. I may reconsider if I hear more testimony to its benefits.








I

Blazer
08-28-2007, 06:07 PM
Moops, you actually bring up a point I had considered, too. Are my DVs going to waste simply because everyone knows *exactly* how to portion out their SP in each and every quest. When MOD 5 hits, there will be a bunch of new quests and people might not spend their SP wisely. However, this will only last for a week at most (if not less, sadly) and then we'll be back to this point.

moops
08-28-2007, 06:11 PM
Even If you are only DVing Rangers and Palis and Bards, and they are passing out Buffs and FOMS and such, that is more SP for you to use offensive casting too :)

Arnya
08-28-2007, 06:15 PM
My 1clr/13sorc has 10 DV1's which is enough for 150-250SP

This is enough for the cleric to raise the group and mass heal a couple times... once I have raised the cleric with a scroll that is :)

And that's at one cleric level...

Ringos
08-29-2007, 08:32 AM
I still use DVs at least 1/2 of the time, but I don't build my guys to have a ton. I have 11 of 2nd level DVs. They are a great way to get some of those 'cheap' folks to pass you the buffs you want (like barkskin, etc). Usually when I run with my guild, I'll DV the wiz after he buffs everyone, but I keep a couple in reserve in case I need to throw a DC or the ranger needs to pass out a couple of extra barkskins down the road. If I hadn't used them before, I DV people after they shrine and throw out buffs and then I'll shrine myself. I don't use DL or DH at all.

Zenako
08-31-2007, 10:13 AM
the other factor and it is one moops alluded to is the size of the group you often run with.

I find DL a LOT more useful when going solo or in a twosome on an undead quest. Run about, round up them undead, get them close and begin the slaughter. You can spam the DL pretty fast and if needed mix in a Mass Cure or two and take down a lot of undead. (Much better than trying to turn them.) In full parties, I seldom ever use DL.

In other quests, I will use DH for certain party members or when in special circumstances like on the other side of a gate or wall. It can help keep someone upright and standing instead of dead or incapped.

Finally I do use DV's often when running with other casters.

I have found that DC is seldom used by me at this point and I am considering dumping it for something else (only have DC2). While it COULD be useful, in practice I have not been using it.

Dariuss
08-31-2007, 12:46 PM
My main guy is a sorc.

He generally doesn't need to be DVed, as he has a whack of SP to play with.

However, if the quest is going badly that extra SP can really turn the tide sometimes. i'm planning to re-roll my cleric and will be taking DV mostly for those occasions when it might help, even if I don't need them often.

Renegade66
08-31-2007, 01:05 PM
I still use my original 28 pt build Cleric with no DVs and higher STR/CON to be battle-worthy. I found though that I rarely needed to melee.

Therefore, I just rerolled and made Bodak (now lvl 14). 18 wisdom, 16 CHA and 14 CON. He now has 32 WIS, 24 CHA and 18 STR and about 230 HP (btw he can still scrap even though it wasn't a goal). I definitely went for the DVs since MoD 5 will increase the number of DVs based on the CHA modifier (currently only base + tomes). Ultimately, I think I'll have abou 17 DV3s, which is sweet. I use them all the time.

I'm also hoping they eventually make it so that a lvl 14 Cleric with 24+ CHA, Sacred and Eternal Healing can actually have a noticeable impact when turning elite undead. If so, I would have taken the Improved Turning Feat. For now though, I went with Empowered Healing, Extra Turns, Mental Toughness, Impr Mental Toughness, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy. The latter two really help with sticking Slay Living, Destruction, Harm and Symbol of Fear.

Wouldn't it be cool if LFMs started saying "LF Cleric w/ Turn Undead"? I'd really like to challenge the Devs to make some improvements in this regard, especially in light of the increased number of undead quests.

Dkmafia
08-31-2007, 01:06 PM
With the lack of new content I've had the chance to look more closely at my cleric and some of her minor flaws are starting to bother me more and more. I've been thinking I can build a better version of her given what I know now these days (say, actually putting points into Balance and not into Heal, for example). When I sat down to work a new version on paper, I came to this point - do I bother building for DV and thus, investing in CHA?

My cleric was built in early Mod 1 and was built with 14 CHA. She's at 12 total DVs currently. She started as a utility/support cleric and has evolved more into an offensive casting/healer role. The past few months her DVs more often than not go wasted. Rare are the occasions where she has people asking for them, even rarer are the times when people need them. Of late, she's been giving them out to bards/rangers and sometimes even paladins.

Given the current state of the game with sorcs approaching 2000 SP, wizards over 1400 SP, SP potions seemingly offered every other end reward, hell even a raid where the boss mob GIVES you more SP, is there any reason to build a new cleric for DV?

I always like to buff the tanks, you tell me there is DV's - I will buff more :) I play a wiz ans simply cant afford to GH the party or resist everyone. I usually focus on melle's + essentials. But a GH on support chars = more saves made and a safer quest.

Blazer
08-31-2007, 04:10 PM
Great discussion everyone. Thanks for the advice and input. I've decided on my reroll to include some level of DVs, rather than abandon them completely. He won't have as many as my current cleric, but he'll have enough to help out when needed.

Renegade, while it would rock if clerics could actually turn stuff in level appropriate quests, rather than only when we are 8-10+ levels above the quest, I'm not holding my breath on that one. An LFM asking for a turning spec'ed cleric? :eek: I was really hoping that Undeath to Death spell would have been a saving grace against undead - but then they went and made it HD based. :mad:

WilbyZ
09-03-2007, 06:56 AM
I am hoping with Mod5, the Devs, will actually make Turn Undead useful.

Perhaps it might be the reasoning behind making Turn Undead/day count from your current display CHA Bonus vs Perm CHA Bonus... ??

Still, nothing beats a big axe of greater undead bane :)

Edit: I build my 32pt Human Clerics with starting 10 CHA. No more!

Casta
09-03-2007, 11:48 AM
From playing a sorc i know the less i have to worry about my sp the faster stuff dies, I normally don't ask for dvs but if i know a cleric has them then I will spend more sp and the quest will go faster.

On my cleric I haven't had to use dvs more then 1 in 5 quests I run, still low lvl so normally only when i group with gimped multiclass casters.

WilbyZ
09-05-2007, 08:00 PM
Funny thing I find is that people don't care if it's DV1 or DV3, as long as you give them one or two DV's they are happy.

lol :)

Naso24
09-06-2007, 11:33 AM
If you have any charisma, even if through items post Mod 5, spend the 1 pt just to have it. It is extremely beneficial for the cost.

If you have decent charisma (10+ times turn undead), go with DV3.

Extra mana is always appreciated.

Blazer
09-06-2007, 11:48 AM
If you have any charisma, even if through items post Mod 5, spend the 1 pt just to have it. It is extremely beneficial for the cost.

If you have decent charisma (10+ times turn undead), go with DV3.

Extra mana is always appreciated.

Yeah, I'm planning on taking DV 1, maybe DV 2 - we'll see how the APs fall. As of now he'll only end up with 4 turn attempts, before CHA items and enhancements, probably 5 or 6 after enhancements. Dunno if I'll have room for a CHA item in his gear layout. I'm not taking Extra Turning since I'm looking to go pretty much all out with the Null cleric - that's what I like doing most with my cleric. With the typical Extend, MT, and IMT coupled with SF: Necro, GSF: Necro, and Heighten, I'm outta feats...until level cap increase. :D

TalieNeEllyll
03-27-2014, 03:19 PM
DV especially when combined with the ability to regenerate turns is great. You do not need to carry as many turns and when you have 2 clerics both with those enhancements you never run out of sp even on the longest quests and sparest of shrines. We just DV everyone including each other.

I admit the people I run with do not make characters that are super powerful. I doubt any of us even know how. At level 28 we have trouble getting even one stat over 40, let along several. But we like our game play even if we die often and get a real thrill out of a perfect run (no deaths). DV is really really helpful for us and out play style. (Most of us were old pen and paper players dating back to Basic Dungeon and Dragons or even the board game .)

If the programmers are reading, I respectfully ask that DV not be removed, nor the ability for clerics to regenerate turns.

Cardtrick
03-27-2014, 03:28 PM
It's Necro O'Clock!

phalaeo
03-31-2014, 03:47 PM
It sure is. I haven't even bothered to look if it's the same guy doing the Necro'ing.

Damn Necromancers.... :rolleyes: