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Ironforge_Clan
08-27-2007, 10:29 AM
Okay did a quick search and didn't see any threads that asked about AC on rogues so I thought I would post this and see what I got. Right now I have a Drow Rogue/Ranger (6/2) that started with a 17 Dex and I currently have him up to a 26 (+2 level ups, +4 feats, and +3 enchantment). I have him equiped with +5 Mithril Chain so he tops out at an AC of 30 with the following breakdown:

10 Base
6 Dex Bonus
9 Armor
4 Iron Manacles
1 Dodge Bonus

I've been looking for ways to improve his AC but haven't found anything yet. Is he still "too little" to go with robes? The best I think I can achieve down this route is a 27 (at this particular time). Oh just so this is clear I am looking at standing unbuffed AC.

So I guess I have the following questions:

1) At what time does it make sense to ditch the armor and move on to robes?

2) Is there an armor out there that provides better proteciton than the +5 Mithril Chain? If so how hard is it to obtain? I am guessing it is a raid loot item.

3) What is the maximum Dex I can achieve with my rogue? I am figuring it at 34.

4) How can I eek out more AC on him?


Thanks

Dariun
08-27-2007, 10:39 AM
A +5 heavy mithril shield would give you some more AC.

I believe you can get +2 AC v. evil from Fragment of the Silver Flame (trinket).

The armor you want is from the Dragon Raid (I think it is +1 better than +5 mith chain).

cforce
08-27-2007, 10:43 AM
Short of raid loot, that +5 Mith Chain will continue to beat out robes for a little while. Figure the next switch is to robes and a +5/+6 armor bracers. With mith chain shirt, you armor+dex total is 15, so it won't really make sense to consider robes until your dex bonus is around +10, at DEX 30.

Er, there's one rather obvious route to improve your AC -- a shield? You can use a +5 Light shield or a +5 Darkwood or Mithral Heavy Shield without penalty, even without the proficiency. Reading in between the lines, I'm guessing perhaps you are a ranged build? Even so, unless you've got the running speed and twitch skills to be a good kiter, you almost always want to switch away from your bow and to a melee configuration of some sort when someone closes to melee range -- you take a -4 penalty for holding a ranged weapon in melee combat. When you figure that on top of the -7 you're giving up by not holding a shield, that a total of an 11 point swing on enemy to-hit ranges! This can be the difference between being hit on nearly every swing and having decent defenses (if not tanklike). With your current configuration, that would get you up to a 37 AC, which should keep you in good defensive shape for at least the next few levels.

On the other hand, if you're a ranged build and an experienced kiter, you don't care about AC -- you're good enough to simply permanently stay out of melee range in the first place! But, if you're concerned about AC, I'd pick up Weapon Finesse if you don't already have it, and be ready to switch to rapier and shield for melee.

bandyman1
08-27-2007, 10:45 AM
A +5 heavy mithril shield would give you some more AC.

I believe you can get +2 AC v. evil from Fragment of the Silver Flame (trinket).

The armor you want is from the Dragon Raid (I think it is +1 better than +5 mith chain).

Yes, the KDS is +1 over a regular +5 Mithral chain shirt ( 10 armor, +6 max Dex bonus ). Note that even though you aren't proficient with the MHshield, you take no penalities for using it. You will get the non-proficient icon, but you get no negatives to skills or attack rolls.

My pure rogue uses the daggertooth's belt ( gives armor mastery I and II ) for +8 Dex out of the KDS, UMDs the chaosguardes ( +2 dodge bonus, I wear a cloak for +4 protection instead of the iron manacles ), and has the ring from Invaders! ( +2 natural bonus ) for a standing AC of 44. Pally arua and a ranger's BS will get me 51, recitation and haste boost another +3, and never forget you have uncanny dodge for +6 when **** hits the fan. That's a 60 AC fully buffed.

Aeneas
08-27-2007, 10:55 AM
Sorry to tell you bro, but he above poster is correct, robes are generally a waste until you hit 30 dex as an elf. As a dwarf you can still make armor work at 32 in either the kds or a +5 mith chain shirt with the daggertooth's belt.

2 of my 3 dwarven rogues break into the 70's for short spurts vs. giants.

Ironforge_Clan
08-27-2007, 10:57 AM
Thank you all for your input. First off...my rogue is TWF style but I guess I could pull a shield out in a pinch. To be honest never really thought of that. I do range but mostly when I don't have to worry about protecting my casters.

The Daggertooth belt...where does that fall? Having the armor mastery will definitely help out. As for the other equipment I guess all in good time. The manacles will serve me well until I can replace them with a +4 protection item. I believe unless it is rr that would be level 11.

Roguewiz
08-27-2007, 10:57 AM
Okay did a quick search and didn't see any threads that asked about AC on rogues so I thought I would post this and see what I got. Right now I have a Drow Rogue/Ranger (6/2) that started with a 17 Dex and I currently have him up to a 26 (+2 level ups, +4 feats, and +3 enchantment). I have him equiped with +5 Mithril Chain so he tops out at an AC of 30 with the following breakdown:

10 Base
6 Dex Bonus
9 Armor
4 Iron Manacles
1 Dodge Bonus

I've been looking for ways to improve his AC but haven't found anything yet. Is he still "too little" to go with robes? The best I think I can achieve down this route is a 27 (at this particular time). Oh just so this is clear I am looking at standing unbuffed AC.

So I guess I have the following questions:

1) At what time does it make sense to ditch the armor and move on to robes?

2) Is there an armor out there that provides better proteciton than the +5 Mithril Chain? If so how hard is it to obtain? I am guessing it is a raid loot item.

3) What is the maximum Dex I can achieve with my rogue? I am figuring it at 34.

4) How can I eek out more AC on him?


Thanks

1. Best case senario, you can achieve is indeed 34 dex (requires a +3 tome and a +6 item)

2. The best time to switch to robes is when a bracer and your dex bonus meets or exceeds +5 Mithril Chain or BP, which would be 28+ Dex.

3. Getting more AC? Honestly, depends on the time and plat you are willing to commit. If you got the time, White Dragonscale Robes are by far, imo, the best robes for a "dex monkey" in the game.

You can achieve (best case):
10 Base
+12 Dex Mod
+6 Armor bonus (from White Dragonscale)
+4 Deflection (from White Dragonscale)
+2 Dodge (Chaosguards)
+3 Dodge (Ring from Queen?)
+2 Natural Armror (Invader Ring)
+5 Combat Expertise (or is it +4...cant remember)
+7 Shield
51 Standing

You can get higher by doing some other item swapping if necessary. Your standing AC without CE would be 45, not to shabby honestly. This is without buffs, so add another 3 for natural armor (Max Ranger Barkskin), to bring it to 48. Throw in a 14th Paladin with full Aura, to add another 4, bringing you to 52.

Kundarek Delving Suit (from the Dragon Raid) and White Dragonscale Robe (from White dragonscale collection in Gianthold pre-raid), are the best armors for a dex monkey.

Tallyn
08-27-2007, 03:28 PM
The Chattering Ring from Demon Queen is a +3 Dodge bonus to AC, in addition to it's other benefits/drawbacks.

bandyman1
08-27-2007, 03:54 PM
Daggertooth's belt falls in the Crucible ( the last three chests ) bro :).
Good Luck.

Ironforge_Clan
08-28-2007, 06:34 AM
Thanks for all the advice, suggestions, and comments.

Talcyndl
08-28-2007, 10:58 AM
Thank you all for your input. First off...my rogue is TWF style but I guess I could pull a shield out in a pinch.


Assuming you have UMD, you can pick up Shield Wands in the Marketplace tent. That will give you +4 to AC. Although the buff only lasts for 1 minute. That's still plenty long enough for most tough fights.

binnsr
08-28-2007, 11:12 AM
Thank you all for your input. First off...my rogue is TWF style but I guess I could pull a shield out in a pinch. To be honest never really thought of that. I do range but mostly when I don't have to worry about protecting my casters.

The Daggertooth belt...where does that fall? Having the armor mastery will definitely help out. As for the other equipment I guess all in good time. The manacles will serve me well until I can replace them with a +4 protection item. I believe unless it is rr that would be level 11.
Keep in mind that switching to robes will cost you the +2 AC from the daggertooth belt, as well as the +2AC from the chaosgarde. The only way to retain that +2 dodge ac is to use the white dragon robe - and you still lose the daggertooth AC.

That's the situation that my rogue finds himself in .. he's is currently sitting at 47AC TWF with nothing but a barkskin and haste, add a shield and a pure paladin, and I go to 57 (once I get the chattering ring, that'll go up 3 more, allowing me to hit 60 without improved uncanny dodge - at the cost of my TWFing). Because of this, I'll probably not take my favor tome in dex when he gets there, but rather shore up my hitpoints by using it in Con for an extra 14hp..