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Irreversible
08-23-2007, 08:56 AM
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binnsr
08-23-2007, 09:02 AM
I would drop the 14 int down a bit, since with only 2 rogue levels, you're going to be hard-pressed to keep your rogue skills up - especially since you're not going to be taking Combat Expertise (req 13int).
I would drop it to a 10 and bump your starting str up to a 14.
I would also space he rogue levels out a bit -- perhaps lvl4 for rogue2 and lvl14 for rogue3.
You want to front-load those paladin levels as much as possible - the saves bonus and fear immunity you get at pal3 are Big.

So, my breakdown would be
1 rogue
2-4 paladin
5 fighter
6 rogue
7-13 fighter
14 rogue

Winded
08-23-2007, 09:22 AM
Maybe if you help us understand what you are trying to accomplish, there would be more to offer. Play style wise, what excites you , ie, finding and disabling traps, being a front line fighter, a good support fighter....?

If what you say is true, you're new to the game and DND, which based on your build is hard to believe(its a fairly complex build). I see no value in your build what so ever at the moment.

Its a poor fighter with poor Rog skills , and even worse palladin skills.

Not that Im trying to be hyper critical , jsut trying to enhance your agme experience. I hear all the time people say Yeah I tried DDO and it sucked, I could nt solo anything and it was way too hard to level. Then I ask , what class did you start with> Typically the answer is some super squeeshy , challenging class, like a sorcerer.

Id suggest learning what the classes have to offer in a pure build , making it a bit easier to acclumate to the game. Heck, you can always build new toons.
Besides , Multi-classing with a 28 pt build or non drow, useless. Wait till you get favor for a Drow build or hey go the distance and get full favor for a 32pt build.

If you're really new to the game- Build a fighter- and take it all in then rebuild

VonBek
08-23-2007, 09:49 AM
We can help you get there, but it helps to know where "there" is. :)

Its as if you're trying to build a teflon-coated two-weapon trap & lock mechanic That's quite a bit to cram in while you're learning the game mechanics, social dynamics, etc...

Do you find yourself in random groups, guild groups, or perhaps a small (static) group with particular needs? Do you see yourself in the role of "everything but caster"? Do you plan to adventure on your own to learn about the game?

And

What type of character sounds like fun to you? (Halflings are a hoot - for some reason they bring a playful affect) You don't seem drawn to spellcasting, sooo... what makes the fun happen?


AND ---> WELCOME TO THE GAME!!!

Irreversible
08-23-2007, 10:15 AM
Hi all, yes im new to this game, only have a week tryig to figure out how it works. My husband has played dd since i dont know when, and recently started to play ddo I want to create an acc that can duo with his barbarian. From what i have read duoing is complicated, need a little bit of everything :rolleyes:. What im trying to acomplish with this build is a fighter with UMD versatility that can do some basic trapsmithing. I know is not gonna be a great fighter nor a good rogue, the intention is to be good support for a pure barbarian. I love challenges and im a quick learner, any advice is appreciated. (btw i know duoing is only for basic maybe some middle lvl quest)

Beorn_The_Bear
08-23-2007, 10:42 AM
What is your goal with this character? I see desires to have decent melee attack with dex and weapon finesse, critical accracy.

High balance which may me think that somewhat you want near the front line while not be seen or heard

Definitely you want what is behind the door or in the chest. Unfortunately your spot and search are to low so you may be will never get a chance to find those secret areas to start with, making the opening/unlocking part useless. Some traps are just deadly to a whole party (towards last aprt of Shan To Khor) and I find rogues dedicated to trap finding and disabling much more useful.


Not sure what you re trying to do with the pally levels? Healing?

Bottom line you are spread out way to much and definitely at higher levels (8 and above) will get the back swing.

There will always be a stronger fighter, or nimbler rogue or simply higher level pally that will make your addition to a party obsolete. AND YOU WILL HATE IT AND REROLL! Party members will be mislead by what class you really are or can do and there will be disappointments from both sides (yours and theirs). Reality is you can not be everything in this game (except at low levels).

Stick to a pure class (or slightly splashed with one more class with a precise goal in mind) and make that one top of the scale so your presence doesn't go unnoticed.

Again, on the long run I think this build is bound to fail for I see hopes that to great for one character.

Live long and prosper my friend

Winded
08-23-2007, 10:52 AM
So a good support role for a barb. Ouch thats tough. Bottom line is that I think a cleric or a pure Rog, palladin, ranger and or BArd would be best.

The things you need to know about supporting a Barb.
1. They have lots and Lots of hit points. If they get in over their head , they need a REAL Healer, not a wand whipper. But a good high UMD Rog will eventually be able to use scrolls and other goodies. So will a Bard. As a rog , you definately can contribute to kills and Mob management, so can a pally.A bard or a cleric can be of great assistance to Crowd Control- Not so much kills.

2. They are really really fast. A ranger maybe the next fastest. You'll need to be able to keep up with him.

3. Agro Management can be a little messy with a Barb. Although my barb is always at the top of the kill count , I may need to chase a bit more than fighter. The point is , you may need to be a little tougher and be ready to manage enemy.

So the Mixed build you proposed , makes sense to me why you'd go that route. I still dont like it and dont think you'll fit the role of support as well as a pure Rogue would. A well built Pure Rogue , is as deverse as any char in game and can be a leading kill contributor and a decent healer. And Buffs, oh yeah Buffs.
Just think of the long term satisifaction of rubbing your higher kill count in the face of your hubby. Mid range lvls the Rog will be unstoppable.

binnsr
08-23-2007, 10:53 AM
Hi all, yes im new to this game, only have a week tryig to figure out how it works. My husband has played dd since i dont know when, and recently started to play ddo I want to create an acc that can duo with his barbarian. From what i have read duoing is complicated, need a little bit of everything :rolleyes:. What im trying to acomplish with this build is a fighter with UMD versatility that can do some basic trapsmithing. I know is not gonna be a great fighter nor a good rogue, the intention is to be good support for a pure barbarian. I love challenges and im a quick learner, any advice is appreciated. (btw i know duoing is only for basic maybe some middle lvl quest)
For duoing, might I recommend a WF Fighter (splash wizard) combined with a WF Wizard (splash rogue). You get tanking (with some self-healing) and an arcane that can heal the tank as well as pop traps.
Again, getting these to work right can be a bit of a challenge for a new player.

Another route to follow, if your hubby isn't into rerolling, or you don't like WF, you can make a cleric-rogue combo - again, not a simple build to get right and I don't know if any of those builds that had been posted survived the recent 'accident' with the forums.

Finally, you could go straight cleric and use resists/healing to bypass traps. This route doesn't get you any of those secret doors, though.

As a final option, you could find a good guild and join their ranks, alleviating the need for an all-purpose duoing team.

Irreversible
08-23-2007, 10:58 AM
Beon the Bear, u got exactly what im trying to do, not planning on going too far with this char, maybe lvl 8 or 9. Hopefully by then ill have a better understandin of the game and enught favors :D to create a char that can contribute to a full team.

But for now i want to spend time duoing with my husband and having as much fun as i can :p. Thats where i need all the help i can get.

Irreversible
08-23-2007, 11:08 AM
So a good support role for a barb. Ouch thats tough. Bottom line is that I think a cleric or a pure Rog, palladin, ranger and or BArd would be best.

The things you need to know about supporting a Barb.
1. They have lots and Lots of hit points. If they get in over their head , they need a REAL Healer, not a wand whipper. But a good high UMD Rog will eventually be able to use scrolls and other goodies. So will a Bard. As a rog , you definately can contribute to kills and Mob management, so can a pally.A bard or a cleric can be of great assistance to Crowd Control- Not so much kills.

2. They are really really fast. A ranger maybe the next fastest. You'll need to be able to keep up with him.

3. Agro Management can be a little messy with a Barb. Although my barb is always at the top of the kill count , I may need to chase a bit more than fighter. The point is , you may need to be a little tougher and be ready to manage enemy.

So the Mixed build you proposed , makes sense to me why you'd go that route. I still dont like it and dont think you'll fit the role of support as well as a pure Rogue would. A well built Pure Rogue , is as deverse as any char in game and can be a leading kill contributor and a decent healer. And Buffs, oh yeah Buffs.
Just think of the long term satisifaction of rubbing your higher kill count in the face of your hubby. Mid range lvls the Rog will be unstoppable.

Tyvm this is very helpfull, my husband only plays humans (still dont know exactly why), if i understood what u r trying to say, a pure rogue with great UMD will be better support for a barbarian..... right :rolleyes: ?

Irreversible
08-23-2007, 11:13 AM
For duoing, might I recommend a WF Fighter (splash wizard) combined with a WF Wizard (splash rogue). You get tanking (with some self-healing) and an arcane that can heal the tank as well as pop traps.
Again, getting these to work right can be a bit of a challenge for a new player.

Another route to follow, if your hubby isn't into rerolling, or you don't like WF, you can make a cleric-rogue combo - again, not a simple build to get right and I don't know if any of those builds that had been posted survived the recent 'accident' with the forums.

Finally, you could go straight cleric and use resists/healing to bypass traps. This route doesn't get you any of those secret doors, though.

As a final option, you could find a good guild and join their ranks, alleviating the need for an all-purpose duoing team.

Most of the links dont work :(, im learning a lot from all ur replies tyvm. Now i have a lot of ideas to work on :).

binnsr
08-23-2007, 11:28 AM
Most of the links dont work :(, im learning a lot from all ur replies tyvm. Now i have a lot of ideas to work on :).
A couple of weeks ago (right after the server merge), they 'accidentally' deleted about 80% of the posts on the forums .. including a majority of the build posts from the class forums. There was a statement that they would try to recover them, but it's been nearly 2 weeks since that statement, so I would doubt that they'll be returning..
Here's a clr/rog build (http://www.housetharashk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=722&highlight=rogue+cleric+build) I did over on the House Tharashk forums some time back .. it's out of date, but might give you a starting point..
Here's an even older one (http://www.housetharashk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368&highlight=rogue+cleric+build) that I know was a success.

VonBek
08-23-2007, 11:51 AM
Hi all, yes im new to this game, only have a week tryig to figure out how it works. My husband has played dd since i dont know when, and recently started to play ddo I want to create an acc that can duo with his barbarian. From what i have read duoing is complicated, need a little bit of everything :rolleyes:. What im trying to acomplish with this build is a fighter with UMD versatility that can do some basic trapsmithing. I know is not gonna be a great fighter nor a good rogue, the intention is to be good support for a pure barbarian. I love challenges and im a quick learner, any advice is appreciated. (btw i know duoing is only for basic maybe some middle lvl quest)

Your husband is fortunate. Slam dunk obvious.

I imagine two routes: Support system to the Barbarian, or fighting partner with the barbarian. The first could be accomplished with a heal-bot, but I hear you want a more active role. By playing a halfling, you gain access to Dragonmarks of healing. But their utility may be limited by the amount of healing a Barb could require.

As you describe your current plan he's the point of the sword in your team. You handle everything else: Alternate fighter, Rogue, healer, maybe-caster.

Look at these, and see if either might suit you in principle:

Halfling Medic (800 free sp?) (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=116108) (probably not - but it can heal)

The Danger Mouse (A build by request) (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=118709) (I think you're imagining something like this, but with trap skills, No?)

Beorn_The_Bear
08-23-2007, 06:06 PM
Since your husband is a human barbarian you wil be a.....
Dwarf cleric;rogue

Dwarf because of CON bonus, AC against giants, resistance to poison, attack and damage enhancement as well as constitution and spell points. Forget about charisma with guy (you will need DIVINE LIGHT to hurt undeads or just hit them hard on the head). If you choose HUMAN you will have access to more charisma based skills, efficient turning undeads, more wisdom points, less fighting abilities. (your choice)

You will start as a rogue to make sure you get on max skill points at creation then continue on as a cleric. YOU NEED TO MAX OUT BALANCE.

You will make a dexterity based character that uses weapon finesse to fight. Your high dex will help your ranging abilities, pulling mobs for your beloved barb, and rogue needed abilities and reflex saves.

You will put most your points in WISDOM and DEXTERITY. Not only a healer, you need to be a strong caster with lots of mana (buff and debuff) if you want your duo to survive. If the mobs cant hit you then no need for healing.

Spell penetration, heighten spell, devotion and potency are items (enhancement or feats) you want to have. Potency (rare) boosts everything.

The rest is all up to you my dear. If you are on Argonessen, send me a shout and i'll come help.

Indrn_Fretgoop
08-23-2007, 10:01 PM
You're best bet would be building a Spell Sword Battle bard/rogue so you can do full on Traps 1-14 and be a beautifull support for a full on raging hardcore psycho barb. With DR songs, Haste, Rage, Displacement, Blur, Goodhope, Inspire Greatness, ETC ETCETC you can off tank, UMD, Buff, Heal and be all around amazing Support everything!

Beorn_The_Bear
08-24-2007, 08:46 AM
I am not arguing this as I have no experience yet with bards and dont know what to make of UMD. But i sure always love to have one in my group (can u mail the specs of your build plz for when i will decide to roll a bard thx)

Raithe
08-24-2007, 01:35 PM
I disagree with a lot:

First, a barbarian is a support character. While raged they have some of the worst AC in the game (worse than most drow sorcerors or wizards), so things will get mighty expensive (gold/xp) if they are singular in combat. I like the build listed in the OP because the AC on it is going to be quite decent, which is valuable until around level 14. The twist, however, is that the barbarian is actually going to be support for the build in question - rather than the other way around.

Second, contrary to what some people are saying, a purely support character (trap monkey, healbot) is not going to work well for duoing. I also like the build in question because it has good saves and will be able to fight effectively in combat - especially with puncturing or wounding rapiers. A single character is not going to be able to manage all aggro completely, so both characters need to be able to take a hit and keep on ticking.

Last, the part I don't like about the build (and all such builds) is the roleplaying aspect. Who is this halfling, and why does she have diverse talents that seem to conflict in nature? I'm not sure why people play this game if they aren't concerned about roleplaying even a little. Why not play SOCOM or Halo if you just want tactical combat...

binnsr
08-24-2007, 01:59 PM
Last, the part I don't like about the build (and all such builds) is the roleplaying aspect. Who is this halfling, and why does she have diverse talents that seem to conflict in nature? I'm not sure why people play this game if they aren't concerned about roleplaying even a little. Why not play SOCOM or Halo if you just want tactical combat...
I play DDO for my tactical combat fix, thanks :D

Here's a sample evasion/pally background:
<your name here> grew up on the streets of <insert city - Sharn works for generic purposes> living off his wits and skills. One day, he snicked the purse strings of a gentleman with more presense of mind than his usual marks. The kind gentleman, a paladin of <insert deity here>, took pity on the lad and undertook to teach him a new way of life. As the boy matured, he internalized the values that the older paladin taught him, and eventually began his own knights training with the <insert holy order here>. A master of his trade now, he still remembers his humble origins and on occasion, makes good use of the skills his mentor tried in vain to train out of him.

There you go, 2rog/12pal

VonBek
08-24-2007, 02:25 PM
I disagree with a lot:

First, [It seems a bit one sided. I hope their chemistry works with whatever they roll.]

Second, [I tend to think the best duo might be two complimentary soloists/generalists. Out of curiosity, What would you pick?]

Last, [I rationalize it as a "spec ops" parallel - good guys with bad guys' skills. The sniper, miner/sapper, recon team]

I hope it's fun for 'em.

DesertBlue
08-24-2007, 04:03 PM
For duoing, might I recommend a WF Fighter (splash wizard) combined with a WF Wizard (splash rogue). You get tanking (with some self-healing) and an arcane that can heal the tank as well as pop traps.
Again, getting these to work right can be a bit of a challenge for a new player.

Another route to follow, if your hubby isn't into rerolling, or you don't like WF, you can make a cleric-rogue combo - again, not a simple build to get right and I don't know if any of those builds that had been posted survived the recent 'accident' with the forums.

Finally, you could go straight cleric and use resists/healing to bypass traps. This route doesn't get you any of those secret doors, though.

As a final option, you could find a good guild and join their ranks, alleviating the need for an all-purpose duoing team.


Exactly as I was thinking once I read her desire to duo. A 13 cleric splashed with rogue (take rogue 1st lvl and concentrate on open locks) would be good support to your barb. Traps can be run through but not locked doors or chests.
Trying to be a complete rogue in a multi class build can difficult. It is do-able, I have one myself. However, I had to level up a rogue to 14 (and have the game change), to realise what it would take to fulfill all the mechanics required

Aranticus
08-24-2007, 07:04 PM
Since your husband is a human barbarian you wil be a.....
Dwarf cleric;rogue

Dwarf because of CON bonus, AC against giants, resistance to poison, attack and damage enhancement as well as constitution and spell points. Forget about charisma with guy (you will need DIVINE LIGHT to hurt undeads or just hit them hard on the head). If you choose HUMAN you will have access to more charisma based skills, efficient turning undeads, more wisdom points, less fighting abilities. (your choice)

You will start as a rogue to make sure you get on max skill points at creation then continue on as a cleric. YOU NEED TO MAX OUT BALANCE.

You will make a dexterity based character that uses weapon finesse to fight. Your high dex will help your ranging abilities, pulling mobs for your beloved barb, and rogue needed abilities and reflex saves.

You will put most your points in WISDOM and DEXTERITY. Not only a healer, you need to be a strong caster with lots of mana (buff and debuff) if you want your duo to survive. If the mobs cant hit you then no need for healing.

Spell penetration, heighten spell, devotion and potency are items (enhancement or feats) you want to have. Potency (rare) boosts everything.

The rest is all up to you my dear. If you are on Argonessen, send me a shout and i'll come help.

wrong.

a clr/rog with points in dex will have difficulty getting skill points for trap smithing, a high int score is necessary to get the skills up.

taking axe enhancements is a waste on a clr/rog for most of your enhancement should be placed into trap smithing skills and healing skills. a clr/rog is more likely to be a support char than a frontline fighter.

a clr/rog will never be as good in spell casting compared to a pure clr. the dc of the spell is not only based on wisdom and spell level but also on caster lvl. you will be at least 1 caster lvl lower meaning, your dc will be always lower. on normal or hard setting, the difference is hard to see, but on elite its a huge difference.

heighten spell is a feat, from your post i figure you are referring to spell focus. if not, then taking heighten spell is almost a waste of feats. most of the clr spell that are good are high in lvl, heighten is not going to affect them much (unless the lvl cap increases a lot)

humans does not have more access to cha based skills. they just have a higher base cha and more skill points to distribute.

humans do not have more wisdom points but they can take a human enhancements which can give 1 extra wisdom.

ps: pal2 is for LoH and divince grace. pal3 is for fear immunity

pss: if you are not clear what a build can do, i'd advise do not comment. ftr8/pal3/rog3 is a well documented batman build. combat wise, its not at good as ftr10/pal2/rog2 due to 1 more rog lvl. however, this build has more to offer. it has fear immunity which is awesome as its not affected by mummies, fear spell etc. it has superior trapsmithing skills due to 1 more lvl of rog. however it does lose out on the fighter enhancements. such a build is very self sufficient and more importantly needs little attention from party members due to its immunities. however, both of them are very item dependant (mith bp for best ac) and is hard to bring out the abilities if you are not experienceed.

Stealthbr
08-24-2007, 07:33 PM
Hmm, I always prefered the drow version of these types of builds. Though, since you are new you cant have drow until 400 favor. So.. your trying to get a guy to duo with a barbarian. I am going to tell you now its tough to duo with a barbarian since they take a lot of damage. Usually, a good choice to duo with a barbarian is someone who has intimidate skill, high ac, high saves and the ability to do some healing via wands, scrolls, LoH, etc. I would not recommend the TWF branch of feats because having two characters with very low AC isnt very good. This is what I did with my character. He will be using rapiers/SS, a heavy shield and robes. These are the feats:

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device

Level 4 (Rogue)

Level 5 (Paladin)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Rogue)

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise

Level 10 (Rogue)

Level 11 (Rogue)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Peircing Weapons

Level 13 (Rogue)

Level 14 (Rogue)

Aesop
08-24-2007, 10:12 PM
well this is the one I use I'm at level 12 right now with her and I love her dearly. You'll need good equipment though so watch the AH for all the toys you'll want. I've never failed a Trap with her I have been known to out kill the tanks in the group I've raised the cleric a few times I'm immune to fear Disease and can heal with impunity. My AC isn't phenominal but I do wear Fearsome armor :) I have shield and cloaks with Resistances on them. Death ward and everything else I can find :)

Aesop


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.60
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Lionne
Level 14 Lawful Good Drow Female
(4 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 7 Rogue)
Hit Points: 158
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 16
Will: 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 14 16 17
Dexterity 16 16 20
Constitution 10 10 10
Intelligence 17 18 18
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 14 14 15

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 7 22 22
Bluff 2 2 2
Concentration 0 0 0
Diplomacy 6 6 6
Disable Device 7 21 28
Haggle 6 16 16
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 3 5 5
Intimidate 2 2 2
Jump 6 11 11
Listen 1 1 3
Move Silently 3 5 5
Open Lock 7 22 26
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 3 4 4
Search 7 21 29
Spot 3 16 20
Swim 4 5 5
Tumble 7 9 9
Use Magic Device 6 19 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus (Drow)
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Perception I

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I

Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II

Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Search
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I

Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II

Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I

Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I



ps this has no tomes added nor equipment

Beorn_The_Bear
08-25-2007, 06:05 AM
Sorry Aranticus, i thought forums were opened to people loving the game and who think they may bring reasonnable help to their peers for the love of the game, not only to those who have the ultimate truth. I thought wrong, my bad.

There should then be a sticky that says that for any questions about the game, requests should be sent directly to you and not bother with using vain opinions found on the forums.

Thanks for making our lives so much easier.

Aranticus
08-25-2007, 09:23 PM
Sorry Aranticus, i thought forums were opened to people loving the game and who think they may bring reasonnable help to their peers for the love of the game, not only to those who have the ultimate truth. I thought wrong, my bad.

There should then be a sticky that says that for any questions about the game, requests should be sent directly to you and not bother with using vain opinions found on the forums.

Thanks for making our lives so much easier.

the right help can help players enjoy the game more. but if the wrong help is provided, it can give others the wrong impression about the game. i reiterate again, if you do not know a build, do not comment. the 8/3/3 build is a build that provides versatility and playability. what you did was to tear it down without so much of having the experience of seeing what the build can do. the original builder spent much time and effort in making it work but u denounced it with your inexperience


Definitely you want what is behind the door or in the chest. (a) Unfortunately your spot and search are to low so you may be will never get a chance to find those secret areas to start with, making the opening/unlocking part useless. Some traps are just deadly to a whole party (towards last aprt of Shan To Khor) and I find rogues dedicated to trap finding and disabling much more useful.


(a) Not sure what you re trying to do with the pally levels? Healing?

(c) Bottom line you are spread out way to much and definitely at higher levels (8 and above) will get the back swing.

(a) i have seen most of the 8/3/3 can get all traps and chests in the game with only 1 exception, the cabel chest on elite which have a 60+ search 70+ disarm.

(b) pally level 1 is to be able to use cure wands, lesser restore, etc. pal2 is for lay on hands and divine grace so that the save throws will be higher. pal3 is for immunities ie fear and disease. this reduces the need for fear and disease immunity items, freeing up precious slots for stat gear.

(c) this build is not made for dps. str will be lower and likely with the use of finesse will be going for stat damaging. a high dex on this build will allow the dex bonus to be applied to the attack roll through the finesse feat but it only applies to finessable weapon. this build is more likely to equip piercing rather than slashing weapons (since there are more finessable piercing weapons and of coz the rapier is the best out there)

there are so many fundamental errors u made here that you did a GREAT disservice to the builder. emphatise with him/her. how would you feel if your work is torn apart by someone who doesnt know his stuff. yes, the forums is for discussions and to provide help to others but the truth is there are so many out there who come with misconceptions and biased opinoins. this isnt helping at all.... :cool:

Irreversible
08-26-2007, 04:22 AM
the right help can help players enjoy the game more. but if the wrong help is provided, it can give others the wrong impression about the game. i reiterate again, if you do not know a build, do not comment. the 8/3/3 build is a build that provides versatility and playability. what you did was to tear it down without so much of having the experience of seeing what the build can do. the original builder spent much time and effort in making it work but u denounced it with your inexperience



(a) i have seen most of the 8/3/3 can get all traps and chests in the game with only 1 exception, the cabel chest on elite which have a 60+ search 70+ disarm.

(b) pally level 1 is to be able to use cure wands, lesser restore, etc. pal2 is for lay on hands and divine grace so that the save throws will be higher. pal3 is for immunities ie fear and disease. this reduces the need for fear and disease immunity items, freeing up precious slots for stat gear.

(c) this build is not made for dps. str will be lower and likely with the use of finesse will be going for stat damaging. a high dex on this build will allow the dex bonus to be applied to the attack roll through the finesse feat but it only applies to finessable weapon. this build is more likely to equip piercing rather than slashing weapons (since there are more finessable piercing weapons and of coz the rapier is the best out there)

there are so many fundamental errors u made here that you did a GREAT disservice to the builder. emphatise with him/her. how would you feel if your work is torn apart by someone who doesnt know his stuff. yes, the forums is for discussions and to provide help to others but the truth is there are so many out there who come with misconceptions and biased opinoins. this isnt helping at all.... :cool:

First of all tx for taking the time to check my build, i know it has to have a lot of mistakes due to my noobness :D, althought its true i spent a lot of time an effort in it, i appreciate u noticed. I think all of the ppl that has replied, has done it with good intentions, some of the advices might be more helpfull than other, but all of them give me a good sense of how the game works and lots of ideas to work on.

VonBek
08-26-2007, 04:23 AM
Hmmmm, you DO learn fast. ;)

ed: And you wake up at an insane hour.

Irreversible
08-26-2007, 04:29 AM
I disagree with a lot:

First, a barbarian is a support character. While raged they have some of the worst AC in the game (worse than most drow sorcerors or wizards), so things will get mighty expensive (gold/xp) if they are singular in combat. I like the build listed in the OP because the AC on it is going to be quite decent, which is valuable until around level 14. The twist, however, is that the barbarian is actually going to be support for the build in question - rather than the other way around.

Second, contrary to what some people are saying, a purely support character (trap monkey, healbot) is not going to work well for duoing. I also like the build in question because it has good saves and will be able to fight effectively in combat - especially with puncturing or wounding rapiers. A single character is not going to be able to manage all aggro completely, so both characters need to be able to take a hit and keep on ticking.

Last, the part I don't like about the build (and all such builds) is the roleplaying aspect. Who is this halfling, and why does she have diverse talents that seem to conflict in nature? I'm not sure why people play this game if they aren't concerned about roleplaying even a little. Why not play SOCOM or Halo if you just want tactical combat...

I know this kind of reply was coming :rolleyes:. U r right and wrong in my humble opinion, i know my husband (experienced dd player) puts a lot off effort in his chars background, and i understand that makes this game much more attractive to a lot of ppl. But u also need to give the newcomers a change to start playing in a more tactical way be4 we can grasp the true and more complex nature of the game, cuz we gotta start somewhere :).

WolfSpirit
08-31-2007, 08:38 AM
What you have asked for is a tall order woman!
To do all the trapsmith stuff, you really need a high intelligence.
This leads to a cut in other important abilities, unless you go all Rogue as mentioned elseware. But if you want to multiclass with the halfling (and Drow would fit this role better) and do all you want to do,
Bard may be the secondary way to go.
A natural "Jack", they get plenty of skill points and can do lots of fighting and such. And with the Buffs!
You will make that Barbarian (and yourself) Rock!

Also considering your requirements and company, I figured you'd want to go the Warchanter route with the bard, this will make yourself and your partner DEADLY even moreso. So the enhancement line and the required feats must be followed carefully till that is obtained.

Ok, a tall order indeed (No Halfling... Barbs intended) :D
But I've taken my whack at it and this is what I've come up with:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Halfling Rogue/Bard
Level 14 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(2 Rogue \ 12 Bard)
Hit Points: 106
Spell Points: 449
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 4
Reflex: 18
Will: 8
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 13 14
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 8 8
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 13 18
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 6 9
Bluff 1 4
Concentration -1 11
Diplomacy 1 4
Disable Device 7 20
Haggle 5 9
Heal -1 -1
Hide 6 11
Intimidate 1 4
Jump 5 9
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 6 11
Open Lock 6 21
Perform n/a 16
Repair 3 3
Search 7 20
Spot 3 4
Swim 1 2
Tumble 6 9
Use Magic Device 5 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I


As you can see, dropping the two-weapon is a must.
There are some serious short-comings with this build, but I think taking late feats such as toughness can help.
Personally, I'd drop the lock-picking skills to help shave down the intelligence a bit. That will help considerably.

This build needs to always stay behind the others in your party, entering combat only after all the monsters have something to feed on already.
Picking up stat damaging weapons such as a wounding puncturing rapier or short sword would work wonders, though its not a MUST have.
This build is FAR from useless. Should be able to handle almost every trap/lock encountered with a bit of your own magic, and still have room to fight. Your Crowd Control will be a bit weak, so stick to buffing or healing spells. And always watch for that ability enhancing equipment out there, it will help alot.
With Evasion and mild backstabbing abilities, this adds an edge of survivability and damage to your game. You could even add a 3rd level of rogue, which will give a bit better backstab, Choices choices...
Myself I went a similar way with my Main, but I traded the trapsmithing skills needed for just the lockpicking and left the traps to the professionals. This gave me more concentration and Perform at less intelligence as well, letting me excel at what bards do best. But If your after those traps, this is the way to go IMO.
I'm not a GREAT build maker so take it for what its worth, I'm sure the busy bodies will gleefully point out all the flaws. Take them all in and figure out what you want. But the more ideas you get the better informed you will be.

Above all, have fun!