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brodie
08-23-2007, 08:02 AM
Hey all I currently have a lvl 12 rogue. My first build and I used an older tentonhammer disable detect pick(ddp)rogue build. i am looking to role another pure rogue and make him pure trap monkey. My goal is high search/disable. does anyone have a rogue build they wouldn't mind sharing that is uber on cabal trap. ? ?

Roguewiz
08-23-2007, 08:16 AM
Hey all I currently have a lvl 12 rogue. My first build and I used an older tentonhammer disable detect pick(ddp)rogue build. i am looking to role another pure rogue and make him pure trap monkey. My goal is high search/disable. does anyone have a rogue build they wouldn't mind sharing that is uber on cabal trap. ? ?

If you want to disable Cabal on Elite, you'd need the following

Drow
+6 INT MOD
+15 Goggles
+17 Ranks
+6 Enhancements
+4 Greater Heroism
+2 Luck
+2 Nimble Fingers
+2 Skill Focus: Disable Device
+5 Boost (another
+7 Tools
+66 Disable

Keep in mind, in order to get to the +6 Bonus from Enhancements and +5 Skill boost, you are going to need the following
Rogue DD I - 1pt
Rogue DD II - 2pt
Rogue DD III - 3pt
Rogue DD IV - 4pt
Rogue Sch I - 1pt
Rogue Sch II - 2pt
Rogue OL I - 1pt
Rogue OL II - 2pt
Rogue Trap Sense I - 1pt
Rogue Trap Lore I (Any) - 2pt
Rogue Skill Boost I - 1pt
Rogue Skill Boost II - 2pt
Rogue Skill Boost III - 3pt
Rogue Skill Boost IV - 4pt
Way of the Mechanic - 4pt
Total points spent: 33

Also, you'll need a high search to even find the trap. So, you would probably need to take the search feat and more enhancements.

So, what exactly do you want your Rogue to do, other than disable the one trap in game that requires over-specialization?

binnsr
08-23-2007, 08:23 AM
Hey all I currently have a lvl 12 rogue. My first build and I used an older tentonhammer disable detect pick(ddp)rogue build. i am looking to role another pure rogue and make him pure trap monkey. My goal is high search/disable. does anyone have a rogue build they wouldn't mind sharing that is uber on cabal trap. ? ?
building a character with the sole intent of finding (61 search) and disabling (65+? dd) that single trap will make you much less effective as a member of your party in the other 99.9% of the content out there.. imho, its not worth the feat and enhancement investment to get there..

edit: dangit.. roguewiz beat me too it again :D

Roguewiz
08-23-2007, 08:31 AM
building a character with the sole intent of finding (61 search) and disabling (65+? dd) that single trap will make you much less effective as a member of your party in the other 99.9% of the content out there.. imho, its not worth the feat and enhancement investment to get there..

edit: dangit.. roguewiz beat me too it again :D

Hey, at least you came in second. :D

And I agree, trap monkeys are a waste of space in a mission. I personally don't like single dimensional Rogues. There is so much more we can bring to a party, other than Disable this and Disable that.

brodie
08-23-2007, 08:33 AM
ok reply to both.

If the rogue can disable that one trap in the game the he/she can disabe them all...thats what i want my rogue to do.

second. whats a good rogue build that is an asset too the party that doesn't say oops rolled a 1. my current rogue hasn't blown a trap in forever but his starts are like 8 off to find that dang cabal trap.

binnsr
08-23-2007, 08:45 AM
ok reply to both.

If the rogue can disable that one trap in the game the he/she can disabe them all...thats what i want my rogue to do.

second. whats a good rogue build that is an asset too the party that doesn't say oops rolled a 1. my current rogue hasn't blown a trap in forever but his starts are like 8 off to find that dang cabal trap.
I would, personally, forget about that trap -- if you have high enough reflex saves, you can loot the chest without disabling it. The better route is to build your rogue to meet the 'real' high water marks for the other 99.995% of the traps out there. According to cforces guide (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=51829), you need:


Disable Device: at least +56 modifier for 0% chance of blowing traps. Aurum Lair trap with DC at least 61.
Open Locks: +32-36 modifier. First locked chest in Twilight Forge, has been failed on a total 51, and succeeded on a total 56.
Search: <44? (traps)/ 45-48 (secret doors) VoN 4 secret door has been reported as 45-48 DC on Elite. Second highest trap (after Cabal) in Gianthold has not been discussed, but SableShadow has been steadily pushing the envelope and hasn't run into trouble with a Search of 44.
Spot: 35-36 Maze of Madness, Cry for Help, Feast or Famine on Elite requires a Spot of 35 or 36 to spot traps.


Shoot for those marks and you'll be good to go. By not killing yourself for that one trap, you can invest the SF:* feats in combat areas as well as free up a ton of action points by not having to take Rogues Disable Device all the way up to lvl4 (10 ap's right there). I've found on my rogue that going as far as way of the mechanic with decent gear (+13 search and +15 dd items) is more than enough.

Roguewiz
08-23-2007, 09:32 AM
There is a trap "A Cry for Help" with a DC of 62-63 (If I remember right...granted, I haven't done the quest in a while)

As far as finding traps go, the magic number is 48-49 in GH, as far as I can tell. I run around with a 52 and have no problems finding traps (not counting the overly difficult trap in the quest I hate)


I would, personally, forget about that trap -- if you have high enough reflex saves, you can loot the chest without disabling it. The better route is to build your rogue to meet the 'real' high water marks for the other 99.995% of the traps out there. According to cforces guide (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=51829), you need:


Shoot for those marks and you'll be good to go. By not killing yourself for that one trap, you can invest the SF:* feats in combat areas as well as free up a ton of action points by not having to take Rogues Disable Device all the way up to lvl4 (10 ap's right there). I've found on my rogue that going as far as way of the mechanic with decent gear (+13 search and +15 dd items) is more than enough.

I'd have to agree, in regards to only really needing the Way of the Mechanic progression.
17 Ranks
+5 int
+15 Item
+4 Enhancement
+3 Boost
+4 GHero
+7 picks
+55 Disable....more than enough for virtually everything but Cabal Elite

dragnmoon
08-23-2007, 10:07 AM
I agree with the posters that say building a rogue to be able to Disarm Cabal trap is a waste...

You can not take 1 feat or enhancement for skills and be able to Spot/Search/Disable all other traps in the game.

I know becuase My 14 rogue can and does not have 1 Enhancement or feat to boost my skills.

You will need good Tools and Items though.

Shamguard
08-23-2007, 02:45 PM
Some sugestions for making a rogue with a high Disable Device(DD) skill.
First is race secection one word here DROW +2 INT +2 DEX +2 CHA -2 CON. Plus two to two of the skills you'll need.
Next is INTELLIGENCE. It helps with both Disable Device and Search the higher the better. At low levels carry some Foxes cunning potions, at least till you can use a +4 INT item. If you are serious about the DD skill start with 20. (No sense in going half way with this.)
Next is DEXTERITY. Won't help with the DD but it helps with the reflex save when the trap box is on the other side of the trap. This will also help with your to hit chance when you take Weapon Finesse. (I recommend at level 3) Since you are going Trap Monkey a 14 should be fine to start with here. (You won't have the outrageous DEX or Reflex save but you will be fine.)
Now for the rest of your stats. Start with every thing else at 10, no reason to have any minuses to anything to start with. Some people may want to min/max a couple of stats here lower CON to raise DEX or start with an 8 WIS to have more STR or CON. This is really more of a personal choice and shouldn't effect your character concept one way or the other.

Now you want to find all the Race Required(RR) Elf/Drow rogue buff items you can lay your hands on. The advantage of these is you can use them a level or two sooner that non RR items.

Enhancements: Besides the +2 stats this is the other reason for Drow. The racial Search and Spot Enhancements. Remember if you cannot find the trap how high Your DD is will not matter. You need a Search as high or higher than you DD to find the Traps after the Barbarian Spots them for you.:D

The other thing this build will have because of the high INT and being a Rogue is LOTS of skill points. You will be able to have ranks in just about any skill(s) you want. Diplo., Bluff, Haggle all good support skill choices, just find yourself a good CHA item and you'll be able to talk yor way through, just about, anything.:D

As far as leveling up stats. Once again if you are serious about this Trap Monkey thing put your leveling stats into INT and get all your DEX boost from Enhancements (total of 5 for Drow Rogue).

Once you get to level 14 and have a +11 or better DD item, a +6 or better INT item and some other skill buffs (GH, Bard buffs, ect) you should be able to disable any trap in the game. You may not even need Skill Focus DD feat, even if you do I'd hold off on it because you won't need the +3 to DD for a while with this character.

The only other thing you might want to look in to is the Way of the Mechanic. The bonuses are nice for a Trap Monkey build.

Would I build a character like this? Maybe as an experiment just to see how it plays. Will it be useless in other areas? I don't think so. May be a little weaker, but with proper play should be able to contribute to any party looking for a rogue.

My final sugestion is if you think you might want to play a character like this then build one and try it out. If it's not what you wanted Delete and try again.

But most of all have fun this is a game after all.

Riekan
08-29-2007, 10:53 AM
Even if you want to be a monster trap monkey, starting any higher than a 16 Inteligence is character suicide. It costs WAY to much in ability points to get there. Rogues, to be good at anything else besides traps need Dex (reflex, Hide, MS, Tumble, and w/ Weapon Finesse) , Con (grabbing too much agro is death) , Wis (will save, spot) , Str (not getting through DR on constructs and undead = NO damage, Jump), and if trying for UMD, CHA.

There is really no dump stat on a well rounded (and by that I mean able to contribute to the party more than the 5% of the time there are traps) rogue. The only other class that has as hard a time with initial stat distribution are Paladins. If you read the majority of the rogue boards, it is generally accepted that 14-16 starting Int is all you need.

Trying to build a rogue for one trap in one quest at one difficulty level and basically gimping the character for the other 99.9% of game content does not make any sense.

sigtrent
08-29-2007, 11:20 AM
Personaly there are only two reasons I would take more than 14 int on a rogue...

#1. is if I am drow and then 16 costs the same ammount.
#2. is if I have wizard levels in addition to rogue

Shamguard
08-29-2007, 03:10 PM
Even if you want to be a monster trap monkey, starting any higher than a 16 Inteligence is character suicide. It costs WAY to much in ability points to get there. Rogues, to be good at anything else besides traps need Dex (reflex, Hide, MS, Tumble, and w/ Weapon Finesse) , Con (grabbing too much agro is death) , Wis (will save, spot) , Str (not getting through DR on constructs and undead = NO damage, Jump), and if trying for UMD, CHA.

There is really no dump stat on a well rounded (and by that I mean able to contribute to the party more than the 5% of the time there are traps) rogue. The only other class that has as hard a time with initial stat distribution are Paladins. If you read the majority of the rogue boards, it is generally accepted that 14-16 starting Int is all you need.

Trying to build a rogue for one trap in one quest at one difficulty level and basically gimping the character for the other 99.9% of game content does not make any sense.

The only problem I have with your statemant is you talk in to many absolutes. If you are talking about the average player who thinks the correct way to play a rogue is as a fighter, with fewer hit points, that can disable traps. Then I aggree with you high character intelligence is a waste. (Why build a character smarter than the player?)

But, if you are talking about the "true rogue" player who thinks before he acts, uses sneak mode as part of his armor class (they won't attack what they cannot see or hear), and generaly does more than "his share" of tactics and planning (because he can check out a room and see what needs to be done before the fighting starts). Then you are very wrong.

With the enhancement system in DDO having a high DEX stat is of less importance than on a PnP build. Because on an Elf, Drow, or Halfling build you can buy 5 extra points of DEX and with +5 and +6 stat items falling out of the sky you can have a DEX stat (24-30) that is more than enough to help your character.

When I shift points away from intelligence I tend to look more towards CHA than any of the other stats. A good UMD will make up for more in the types of things you can do (to contribute to a party) than a good "to hit" number you get from DEX.

Personaly I dislike negitive modifiers for anything (especially on a rogue) so I like starting with all my stats at 10. This limits how high I can set other stats but with, level up increases, enhancemants, and items that raise stats the character becomes very playable, with no real handicaps.

I guess the whole point of what I'm saying is that I agree that there is no dump stat on a rogue. You need a good INT, DEX, and CHA. CON, STR, and WIS are useful but not essential to a rogue. You just need to make sure they don't hurt you. Depending upon what type of rogue you want you put extra stat point in to INT, DEX, or CHA. INT will help with traps, search, and skill points. DEX will help with combat, AC, and stealth. CHA with help with UMD, Haggle, Bluff, and Diplomacy. Open locks is also a DEX skill but there is no penalty for failure so as long as you have a chance of opening a lock your skill is high enough. Spot is WIS based but once again you'll find plenty of fighters willing to locate traps for you:D , so this skill has less use.

A good rogue character is more about the player and less about the stats. A good player will know what he wants to do with his character and assign his stats accordingly. If he requires an 18 intelligence then he will give the character an 18 intelligence and be very sucessful with it. If he wants to play a 6 strength halfling rogue he will build a 6 strength halfling rogue and be sucessful with him. The secret is you play within your build, don't try to tank with a 6 strength halfling, but you can pick and stick with sneak attack damage. Just be careful not to "steal" the agro from the tanks.:D

Becareful what you say is "suicide" or "does not make any sense" because someone will come along and prove you wrong or at least challenge you to think outside the box.

Spakerman
08-30-2007, 11:04 AM
I am building my rogue along the "stealth scout, disable, pick locks, UMD" line with lesser abilities for combat because that is the way I choose to play him.

I don't view a rogue as simply another fighter who happens to be able to diable some traps.

I fight when I need to and with weapon finesse I can contribute well most of the time but with a low strength I wil not be getting through the tougher DR. Hey, that just happens to fit perfectly with my view of a rogue. Be sneaky, stab some things in the back occasionally... but I won't be soloing any big constructs and there's no reason why the rogue should have to. Seriously, as a rogue, if the party wipes and it's just me versus a big meanie.... I'm running away.

Shamguard
08-30-2007, 01:45 PM
I am building my rogue along the "stealth scout, disable, pick locks, UMD" line with lesser abilities for combat because that is the way I choose to play him.

I don't view a rogue as simply another fighter who happens to be able to diable some traps.

I fight when I need to and with weapon finesse I can contribute well most of the time but with a low strength I wil not be getting through the tougher DR. Hey, that just happens to fit perfectly with my view of a rogue. Be sneaky, stab some things in the back occasionally... but I won't be soloing any big constructs and there's no reason why the rogue should have to. Seriously, as a rogue, if the party wipes and it's just me versus a big meanie.... I'm running away.

and, if you can shake the agro, you can sneak back and pickup soul stones and get them to a res shrine.:cool: BTDTGTS:D
Or better yet at higher levels just raise the cleric in a safe locaton.

Spakerman
08-30-2007, 01:52 PM
and, if you can shake the agro, you can sneak back and pickup soul stones and get them to a res shrine.:cool: BTDTGTS:D
Or better yet at higher levels just raise the cleric in a safe locaton.

Dam straight.

I mean if my dmg is what the party is relying on to kill stuff ... we're doomed anyway. :D

ArkoHighStar
08-30-2007, 03:09 PM
Actually the best trapsmith in the game is a cleric with 2 lvls of rogue, they can get the highest search using the find traps spell, they can self buff for bonuses, and with UMD can even give themselves Greater heroism. there is a build called the Heroe build tat Davey Crockett has made that gets you that elusive trap and you can at leats heal your party in between traps.

Starlytes
09-01-2007, 04:57 AM
Hey I like your build ( I have a lvl 14 rog )

I had high starting Int and Dex ( +1 tomes )

I am a trap monkey with UMD

I have 13 maxed out skills ( You figure out which ones ) :)

No realy along with the rog skills goes Tumble Jump Haggle Bluff UMD etc.

Since I am Drow I get nice bonuses to hit, and still a little useful in combat, from any race restricted short bow I happen to loot. ( Paralyzer, Banisher, Curse Spewer, and Stat damage are my bows of choice) Looking for Disrupter BTW ;)

Can use just about any scroll or wand I want to help out (heal, remove various ailments,) You get the picture right :)

Just my 2 copper :)

Vittorianna Lvl 14 Rog of Agrobar :)