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Findecano
08-22-2007, 06:28 PM
Hello,

I am playing a Halfling Paladin in a perma-death guild. I am level 3, and recently learned that you need decent strength...even if you take weapons finesse as a feat. I need to know what you would recommend to help make my character more effective. Would you multi-class into something else, or just keep plugging forward in Paladin levels. Below is my current setup w/ items I am wearing now.

11 Str
18 dex
11 con
8 intel
14 wis
15 char

weapons finesse
weapons focus piercing
( I just realized that I didn't take toughness and I thought I did )

binnsr
08-22-2007, 06:36 PM
You could take 2 levels of rogue for the evasion - it would mean switching to light armor, which could take some adjusting since, unless it's high-end light armor, it's going to be relatively low. The tradeoff would be the loss of 1BAB, but you make it up, a small bit at least, by gaining evasion and 1d6 sneak attack damage.
The other thing you could do is hit waterworks a few times (depending on what your PD rules allow) and hope for a low-level +2str item.

JelloMold
08-22-2007, 06:43 PM
It's been awhile since I've looked at the required/recommend skill levels for a pally's WIS, but I think you could drop a few and hope for a nice enhancement item. If I remember correctly, you only need a 16 for the top tier of spells. In that case, you could drop it a touch. I'd also drop your DEX. Even a point there could bump your STR and/or CON (which also looks a bit low to me-even for an off tank). When using Weapon Finesse, the STR is for your damage bonus. If you are doing some stat damage (I think those are available around level 6), you only need to be able to bypass a monster's damage reduction for the damage, curse, whatever to stick.

Since you are only level 3 (which is probably pretty good in permadeath world) I'd recommend rerolling so you can get that toughness and change your stats.

I'm sure there is better advice out there. Good luck.

Findecano
08-22-2007, 07:01 PM
You could take 2 levels of rogue for the evasion - it would mean switching to light armor, which could take some adjusting since, unless it's high-end light armor, it's going to be relatively low. The tradeoff would be the loss of 1BAB, but you make it up, a small bit at least, by gaining evasion and 1d6 sneak attack damage.
The other thing you could do is hit waterworks a few times (depending on what your PD rules allow) and hope for a low-level +2str item.

Hi,

The best armor for me to wear is a Chain Shirt. Because I get 4 armor and a 4 dex bonus. At 18 dex, I can take advantage of that for 8 AC total. Fullplate is the only one better, but I suffer serious hit to armor check penalties for just 1 more AC. I don't find that worth it, so I stick to Chain Shirts. So, it wouldn't be hard for me to adjust to.

Thank you

Findecano
08-22-2007, 07:02 PM
It's been awhile since I've looked at the required/recommend skill levels for a pally's WIS, but I think you could drop a few and hope for a nice enhancement item. If I remember correctly, you only need a 16 for the top tier of spells. In that case, you could drop it a touch. I'd also drop your DEX. Even a point there could bump your STR and/or CON (which also looks a bit low to me-even for an off tank). When using Weapon Finesse, the STR is for your damage bonus. If you are doing some stat damage (I think those are available around level 6), you only need to be able to bypass a monster's damage reduction for the damage, curse, whatever to stick.

Since you are only level 3 (which is probably pretty good in permadeath world) I'd recommend rerolling so you can get that toughness and change your stats.

I'm sure there is better advice out there. Good luck.

The character is already created, so i can't "drop" anything. The question is how can I become more efficient with the character I do have "now."

Impaqt
08-22-2007, 07:30 PM
The character is already created, so i can't "drop" anything. The question is how can I become more efficient with the character I do have "now."


DOnt worry, Your said your playing permadeath.. You can chage the stats when you die... Cause that character aint gonna make it very far ;)

Seriosly though.... What are your Naked stats.. At level 3, there are a few +2 No ML item you could have and +1 items as well.. We need toknow what you have and where you can go...

As Permadeathers rarely Solo, I personally dont think STR is that much of an issue as long as you have Weapon FInesse. A COuple ROgue Levels wouldnthur this build at all either.

Looks for Weapons that give you extra Damage or Crown Control.. Maiming... Slowburst...

Geonis
08-22-2007, 07:34 PM
Okay, you have some problems, but nothing impossible to overcome.

First, about the strength, you don't have, so don't worry about it.
Go with extra damage (flaming, frost, holy, etc...) to boost your output for now. Later, you can switch to stat damage.

Second, I think a previous poster had it right, go 2 levels of rogue.
You'll pick up evasion and be able to use light armor so you still have your evasion, and be able to max out your UMD, which opens up many new options.

I don't think there is any true way to "fix" the character, but the above should limit your weak points or at least give you a few more strong points.


For next time, a little less dex(16 max) and wis (12 or 10).

I would suggest str 14 dex 14 con 12 int 8 wis 10 cha 15

Gennerik
08-22-2007, 07:35 PM
The character is already created, so i can't "drop" anything. The question is how can I become more efficient with the character I do have "now."

I wouldn't worry too much about it. You can put all your points from leveling into Strength, since being a Halfling means that you get +2 Dex racially (and can ignore it more or less). The three points from level 14 will put you up to a 14 base Strength, which will allow you to get a 20 Strength with a +6 item. Couple that with a Two-handed weapon and Power attack, you can still deal decent damage when you are not use a light weapon (useful for overcoming DR, etc). If you don't get Power Attack (not sure if it works on light weapons or not, though it shouldn't), then you can still switch to a two-handed weapon and deal OK damage.

If you feel that you've essentially removed yourself from being effective in combat, then focus on getting a higher Wisdom so you can get more SP. Plus, being a Halfling means that you can pick up the Healing Dragonmarks, which will help you be able to be a supplemental healer in a group. That with Lay on Hands gives you a good healing ability (and you can even get the Enhancements to fully heal a characters every 10 minutes). There's still plenty of avenues to take for your character, including the ability to melee, that don't require you to reroll.

spifflove
08-22-2007, 08:43 PM
go the twf line. Your dps will be plenty.

Findecano
08-22-2007, 09:33 PM
What is the TWF line. I hear people talk about TWF, but I don't know what TWF is to begin with.

Osharan_Tregarth
08-22-2007, 09:52 PM
two weapon fighting

It's not something I'd recommend for a permadeath character, but... If you were so inclined, that's what it stands for.

Findecano
08-23-2007, 02:13 PM
Hey guys,

So I've gotten several pointers from people that I should go TWF as a Pally/Rog.
Mainly so I can deal some damage. This appeals to me, but I have some questions.

Would it be wise to take 1 level of fighter, so I can get the TWF feat without impacting the amount of feats I would have gotten if I would have stayed 2 rog/12 pally or would I be missing out on too many good things as a lvl 12 Pally? Would Ranger be better for this?

It would suck to give up my +2 Mithril Shield, but I would do it if it made a lot of difference.

Thank you

Findecano
08-23-2007, 05:02 PM
He died today, so I don't need anymore help. Thanks for the suggestions that were given.

binnsr
08-23-2007, 05:03 PM
My condolences on your loss. Where should we send flowers?

Actually, it still does matter. What you learned in this thread, you'll carry forward to the next character.

Spakerman
08-29-2007, 02:08 PM
My condolences on your loss. Where should we send flowers?

Actually, it still does matter. What you learned in this thread, you'll carry forward to the next character.


This is really the fun of permadeath... By the time you have a character that makes it somewhere, you probably have a really decent character... not to mention a heck of a lot more skills at playing the game itself. When I see higher level permadeath guilded characters I have to /cheer at them.