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Eurytos
08-22-2007, 04:46 AM
This is just a fun build I came up with tonight. Bard6/Fighter6/Rogue2. OK rogue skills, UMD, Warchanter bard buffs, Fighter feats for combat and intimidate.

Could you possibly fit three party members into one slot? A half decent rogue, crowd control via fascinate/buffs and a tank?

Criticism appreciated! What I really need feedback on is the rogue end of things. I have never played a rogue past level 5 so I don't know much about the necessary DCs I should be able to hit to make it worthwhile spending points in Rogue skills.

Meet "Motion": True Neutral, 32 Point, Elf Male

Starting Attributes:
STR: 18
DEX: 12
CON: 10
INT: 13
WIS: 8
CHA: 13

(Semi) FinalAttributes: (Easy enough to get gear, c'mon people, go POP'n!)
STR: 28 (3 levels, 2 enhancements, 5 item)
DEX: 20 (3 enhancements, 5 item)
CON: 16 (1 tome, 5 item)
INT: 18 (5 item)
WIS: 12 (4 item, lol)
CHA: 20 (2 enhancements, 5 item)

Level Progression:
1. Rogue: Nimble Fingers
2. Fighter: Weapon focus: Slashing
3. Bard: Power Attack
4. Bard: +1 STR
5. Bard
6. Bard: Iron Will
7. Rogue
8. Bard: +1 STR
9. Bard: Luck of Heroes
10. Fighter: Combat Expertise
11. Fighter
12. Fighter: Bullheaded, Improved Critical: Slashing, +1 STR
13. Fighter
14. Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing

Enhancements
Rogue Skill Boost 1
Extra Song 2
Inspired Attack 1
Inspired Bravery 2
Inspired Damage I
Lingering Song 1
Warchanter
Elven Dexterity 2
Elven Enchantment Resistance 3
Elf Melee Attack 2
Elf Melee Damage 2
Bard Energy of Music 2
Bard Charisma 2
Rogue Dexterity 1
Fighter Strength 2


Skill Ranks:
Intimidate: 13 +5 20CHA +13 item +4 G.Hero +1 Luck +2 feat +2 Warchanter = 40
Open Locks: 9 +6 22DEX +13 item +4 G.Hero + Luck +6 tools +2 boost +2 feat = 41
Disable Device: 15 +4 18INT +13 item +4 G.Hero +1 Luck +6 tools +2 boost +2 feat= 47
Perform: 12 +5 20CHA +13 item +4 G.Hero +1 Luck = 35
Search: 12 +4 18INT +13 item +4 G.Hero +1 Luck +2 boost = 39
Spot: 4 +1 12WIS +13 item +4 G.Hero +1 Luck = 24
UMD: 12 +5 20CHA +3 Cartouche +4 G.Hero +1 Luck = 25, 27 boost... 9+ Rez
Balance: 4
Jump: 4
Tumble: 4

Saves:
Fortitude: 17 2 Bard, 5 Fighter, 2 Self Heroism, 3 16CON, 3 Resistance Item, 1 Luck of Heroes
Reflex: 22 5 Bard, 2 Fighter, 3 Rogue, 5 20DEX, 2 Self Heroism, 4 Spectacular Optics, 1 Luck of Heroes
Will: 19 5 Bard, 2 Fighter, 1 12WIS, 2 Iron Will, 1 Bullheaded, 2 Self Heroism, 5 BAM Helm, 1 Luck of Heroes
+ Add 2 for Greater Heroism, 3 against enchantments, and more with a Paladin around

AC:
10 Base
10 +5 Mithral Breastplate
5 Max Dex
7 +5 Heavy Shield
2 Chaosgarde
3 Barkskin
3 Spectacular Optics
5 Combat Expertise
1 Haste
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46 AC
1 Kundarak Delving Suit and +2 tome or +1 tome and 6 dex item
2 Ranger Barkskin
2 Protection+5 item
5 Paladin Aura
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Potential 56 AC


Attacks:
11 BAB
9 STR
3 Average Longsword
2 Elven Melee Attack 2
3 Inspired Courage w/ Inspired Attack and Warchanter
2 Heroism Spell
1 Rage Spell
1 Haste Potion
1 Weapon Focus: Slashing
1 Luck
-5 Combat Expertise or Power Attack
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29/29/34/39 Solo Attacks add 2 for Gird or G.Heroism

Damage:
1d8+9+4+3+2+2 (+5)(+1d6)
Longsword, STR, Song,+3 Weapon, Weapon Specialization, Elven Melee Damage, (Power Attack,) (sneak attack)

Possible Changes
+ Switch Luck of Heroes or Bullheaded out for SF: UMD
+ Lower Intimidate a little for DD skill (40 is probably a bit much since my Warforged with 26 lands it most of the time)
+ Go with 8 bard instead for haste and the next round of Inspired Attack and Damage enhancements?
+You tell me!

Quartzite
08-22-2007, 06:39 AM
I'd recommend taking 8 Bard and 4 Fighter. That way you can get Haste and Displacement which would be even better for a tank. It'd give you some more skill points, too.

Eurytos
08-22-2007, 06:43 AM
At the loss of 1 feat (Bullheaded?) and 1 str enhancemnt. (But level 8 song enhancementsmakes up for loss of 2 str and benefit the whole group)

I thought of this also when I was writing this post, I will most likely go that route instead:D

EinarMal
08-22-2007, 06:46 AM
1. I think you will run into a lot of trouble with your search skill. You might be ok on normal as a backup rogue but it needs to be closer to 50 to be able to do rogue stuff on hard-elite. Even on normal in GH quests I don't think you will be able to find the boxes. Searching is in a lot of cases harder than disabling the trap. You can't even get a roll if you can't find the box. I would max search. The other option is to just not do traps, and just be able to open lock/umd/intimidate + evasion.

2. I would go 8 Bard/4 Fighter the increase in Bard buffs/spells is worth more than +1 to strength (enhancement), 8 hit points and another feat. You really need displacement and haste.

3. I worry about your hit points. Your AC is not super high and you don't have a ton of hit points. I would think you would have a hard time "tanking" on elite GH content. Without those outside buffs a 46 AC is not going to be enough.

4. I would take a toughness feat instead of one of the save feats. With four levels of fighters that gets you another 31 hit points at level 14 with enhancements.

5. I would worry about this character filling any slot well enough on high level 14 content. You really couldn't be the main rogue since you can't disable the traps, your Bard buffs are not super even with 8 levels of Bard let alone 6, and you have a lot less hit points than a normal tank.

Eurytos
08-22-2007, 06:55 AM
Thanks for the input on the rogue skills. Like I said, never played one so I don't know what are the required levels to be viable.

8/4/2 will most likely be the direction, but I may also end up dropping one role (most likely rogue skills) to be better at 2 instead of poor at 3. Probably just max open locks and UMD.

EinarMal
08-22-2007, 07:06 AM
This has some rogue skill stuff in it...should give you some guidance on what levels you need to hit. Looks like I was a little high on search needed looks like ~44. So you are close if you wanted to max search you could hit it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=51829

Eurytos
08-22-2007, 11:08 AM
Well let's see here. Switching to 8 bard, 4 fighter, 2 rogue. Remove Bullheaded.

Remove Fighter's Strength 2, Elven Enchantment Resistance 3 and add Inspired Attack 2, Inspired Damage 2, Rogue DD 1...

Ranks end up like this:
DD: 17, total of 50 after buffs and +5 tools (thread says 56, I'm ok with those chances)
OL: 9, total of 42 after buffs and +5 tools (thread says 32-26, I'm good here)
Intimidate: 10, total of 37. I succeed enough with a 26 on elite so 37 is great
Search: 16, total of 43 (link says under 44 for traps, I can use a secret door wand for anything else)
Spot, screw it. I'll know where the traps and doors are the 2nd time through anyway and I have evasion if I need to find them the hard way.

...And now I have displacement and haste with about 500+ SP.

So that's 46 AC. blurred and displaced, DR5/- from warchanter to the entire group. Average saves... but HP?

At 14 with 16CON that's 162hp, greater false life belt for 192hp... I'd say it's enough with displacement and DR. But, for the sake of improvement, I dropped Bard energy of music 2 (-40SP) and Luck of Heroes for Toughness and Fighter's Toughness 2. That leaves me with 193hp with 16CON, 223 with Greater False Life belt.

skraus1
08-22-2007, 01:35 PM
For a buffing build like yours I would also drop concerns about DCs. Not much is going to land anyway so why waste mana on it? True Buffing bards only need a cha of about 15-16.

Thus, I would recommend going Dwarf and taking toughness and the toughness enhancements. This will still give you a bonus to search, and a whole lot more hp.

Eurytos
08-22-2007, 04:34 PM
For a buffing build like yours I would also drop concerns about DCs. Not much is going to land anyway so why waste mana on it? True Buffing bards only need a cha of about 15-16.

Thus, I would recommend going Dwarf and taking toughness and the toughness enhancements. This will still give you a bonus to search, and a whole lot more hp.

I'm not worried about spell DCs. Fascinate will do fine for CC, but I need the CHA for UMD, Perform and Spell Points...

The problem with dwarf is that I don't get dex enhancements and dex bonus for AC, that's -2 AC and a bunch of SP for a bit of HP. I think 232hp taking fighter toughness will be fine. My mana will be purely for haste, blur, displacement, rage and maybe some heals. That will relieve the caster of spending their sp on it and let them deal more damage.

I can cast detect secret doors so I don't really care about the high search requirement for secret doors and 44 should be fine for traps. I'll have more if I use my +6 wis necklace and find some +15 search goggles.

A_Sheep
08-22-2007, 05:29 PM
It looks like you are thinking about using longswords with Elven Melee Attack/damage and slashing?

I would suggest switching to rapiers (piercing), which have better damage. Scimitars are equivalent to rapiers, but you'd lose out on the racial enhancement.

A_Sheep
08-23-2007, 05:09 PM
Oh yeah, and think about picking up a recitation wand. +2 Luck bonus to AC (for like 45 sec, but still).

Lifespawn
09-07-2007, 09:42 PM
find traps scrolls are cheap add 1 to search and stack with everything