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oberon131313
08-21-2007, 08:40 PM
so I was playing with the offline char. builder, and ran accross this enhancement.

For those that aren't aware of it, it's available at level 6 cleric, level 6 wf, and is a 60 second ability that gives a +4 profane (I assume this stacks, as I've never heard of this type before) bonus to Str, +4 natural AC, +4 profane bonus to attack rolls, martial and simple weapon prof., BAB equal to your character level, loss of spellcasting ability, and heavy fort as a feat (which means you lose the ability to be healed by the cure line of spells)

so my challenge is to come up with a build that utilizes this enhancement as a battle cleric, but still keeps the usefullness of the healing cleric, so that groups won't completely shun you, and hopefully in the case of an almost TPW, you are the only one standing, having utilized your spells first and then popping this enhancement for damage. I'd like to see what my fellow 'forged lovers can come up with.

oberon131313
08-21-2007, 09:16 PM
this is my build that I've got planned.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Chaotic Good Warforged Female
(1 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 11 Cleric)
Hit Points: 233
Spell Points: 605
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 4
Will: 9

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 18 22 22
Dexterity 12 12 12
Constitution 16 17 20
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 12 12 15
Charisma 6 6 6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 1 1 -4
Bluff -2 -2 -2
Concentration 7 19 19
Diplomacy -2 -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2 -2
Heal 1 2 2
Hide 1 1 -4
Intimidate -2 -2 -2
Jump 4 7 2
Listen 1 8 8
Move Silently 1 1 -4
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1 -1
Search -1 -1 -1
Spot 1 2 2
Swim 4 6 -4
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I

Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I

Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I

Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I

Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II

Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation

Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II

Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II

Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III

Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II

Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I

Level 13 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I

Maldini
08-22-2007, 06:59 PM
Hmm, as a Cleric you could hit:

18 Base
3 Levels
3 Tome
6 Item
2 Rage
4 Profane
4 Madstone
Total: 40 Strength


Hahahahhahaha

nbhs275
08-25-2007, 09:25 PM
it comes on pally too. Which is much better in this case, especially when you have 2-3 LoH to use on yourself while in that mode. Also note its not +4 attack, but +4 damage.

so a good WF pally can post one HUGE damage stick.

So with the idle weapon, the SoS, you have
2d6 +5 weapon +16 PA +3DF +4 Bladesworn +22 STR+ 8 Bard= 2d6+58 15-20/x3.

60-70, 180-210 crits, and a smite evil from a full paladin adds 49 damage. 109-119 normal hit, crit 327-357. Add 18 with bloodstone Although thats fully maxed. So far my offensive paladin based on this has to date hit 306 as his highest smite crit with his sword of shadows. Though he doesnt have the madstone boots or bloodstone.

Mal whats the best crit your barb does?

Hedd
08-26-2007, 11:37 AM
it comes on pally too. Which is much better in this case, especially when you have 2-3 LoH to use on yourself while in that mode. Also note its not +4 attack, but +4 damage.

so a good WF pally can post one HUGE damage stick.

So with the idle weapon, the SoS, you have
2d6 +5 weapon +16 PA +3DF +4 Bladesworn +22 STR+ 8 Bard= 2d6+58 15-20/x3.

60-70, 180-210 crits, and a smite evil from a full paladin adds 49 damage. 109-119 normal hit, crit 327-357. Add 18 with bloodstone Although thats fully maxed. So far my offensive paladin based on this has to date hit 306 as his highest smite crit with his sword of shadows. Though he doesnt have the madstone boots or bloodstone.

Mal whats the best crit your barb does?

I have a Bladesworn 2hw pally, built like a tank. With a good x3 crit weapon I've seen around 230+ smite crits. When they change the refresh timers on faith abilities, it'll take an already fun template and turn it into a beast. Barbs, eat your hearts out.

oberon131313
08-26-2007, 01:11 PM
I knew about Pallies getting the enhancement at 9 as well, but I didn't know about the +4 damage as opposed to hit, good to know. The only problem I can see with my build is that at higher levels, even with the bonuses from strength and the BAB, it might be hard to hit some really high AC things, so that's definitly something to keep in mind.

There is definatly something to be said about staying cleric though....namely
I can raise dead, and use heal.

RemoJr
08-26-2007, 01:36 PM
Hmm, as a Cleric you could hit:

18 Base
3 Levels
3 Tome
6 Item
2 Rage
4 Profane
4 Madstone
Total: 40 Strength


Hahahahhahaha

ahh, but now add 1 single level of barbarian. 44 str <insert evil laughter>

nbhs275
08-26-2007, 02:11 PM
ahh, but now add 1 single level of barbarian. 44 str <insert evil laughter>

not a bad idea. If you want to get into just weird multiclass though, 6 bard/ 6 cleric/ 2 barbarian. 3 rages, can hit the 44 str, and has a decent little song. not optimal but could be interesting.

Taerdra
08-27-2007, 01:22 PM
Cleric 11/Barb 2/Sorc 1 could be fun as well and gives you some better options for self-heal and still gets you to 9th level spells (assuming 20th ever opens up in the first place).

Problem with all these is if you get dispelled when ur raged...

Maldini
08-27-2007, 02:12 PM
it comes on pally too. Which is much better in this case, especially when you have 2-3 LoH to use on yourself while in that mode. Also note its not +4 attack, but +4 damage.

so a good WF pally can post one HUGE damage stick.

So with the idle weapon, the SoS, you have
2d6 +5 weapon +16 PA +3DF +4 Bladesworn +22 STR+ 8 Bard= 2d6+58 15-20/x3.

60-70, 180-210 crits, and a smite evil from a full paladin adds 49 damage. 109-119 normal hit, crit 327-357. Add 18 with bloodstone Although thats fully maxed. So far my offensive paladin based on this has to date hit 306 as his highest smite crit with his sword of shadows. Though he doesnt have the madstone boots or bloodstone.

Mal whats the best crit your barb does?

Depends on the gear and what weapon you're using. The Bloodstone adds good damage, so does a Seeker 10 item. +3 Greater Banes add good damage too, as well as Dwarven Axe Enhancements. Different versions have different benefits, but I think max crit would be somewhere in the 220's to 230's.

nbhs275
08-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Depends on the gear and what weapon you're using. The Bloodstone adds good damage, so does a Seeker 10 item. +3 Greater Banes add good damage too, as well as Dwarven Axe Enhancements. Different versions have different benefits, but I think max crit would be somewhere in the 220's to 230's.

Ah, then im not that far behind on my pally then, though im sure you crit more often with the SoS (though a small bit less with GreatAxes)

Maldini
08-27-2007, 08:46 PM
Ah, then im not that far behind on my pally then, though im sure you crit more often with the SoS (though a small bit less with GreatAxes)


You must be talking about Smites? Smites are limited, whereas barbs see this on multiple crits. We have a 17 - 20 Crit Range on Greataxes or a 20% Crit chance for those big numbers. SoS is nice, but not the be all or end all.

You'll crit better with Bursting Greater Banes if you can find them or Axiomatic Burst Greataxes of Maiming, etc.

The 220's is without special effect as well, so if you add in the Greater Bane damage or the Bursting Damage it adds up to more.

nbhs275
08-27-2007, 09:35 PM
You must be talking about Smites? Smites are limited, whereas barbs see this on multiple crits. We have a 17 - 20 Crit Range on Greataxes or a 20% Crit chance for those big numbers. SoS is nice, but not the be all or end all.

You'll crit better with Bursting Greater Banes if you can find them or Axiomatic Burst Greataxes of Maiming, etc.

The 220's is without special effect as well, so if you add in the Greater Bane damage or the Bursting Damage it adds up to more.

well 180-210 without a bloodstone, on a character that maintains an AC 44 while doing it (48 with shield clicky), i would say its pretty darn good. yea, SoS isnt the be-all end all, but its not like everyone has holy burst greataxes of greater giant bane gathering dust in their banks.

Maldini
08-27-2007, 11:04 PM
well 180-210 without a bloodstone, on a character that maintains an AC 44 while doing it (48 with shield clicky), i would say its pretty darn good. yea, SoS isnt the be-all end all, but its not like everyone has holy burst greataxes of greater giant bane gathering dust in their banks.

So you're saying you do that with with your smite evils? If so that's a limited variety and you have to go by your normal crit. What's your strength mod?

Barbs can get good AC too if they wanted to:

10 Base
13 Mithral Full Plate
3 Max Dex
2 Dwarven Armor Mastery (if Dwarf) or 2 Daggertooth's Belt
3 Barkskin Potion
5 Protection
2 Recitation
1 Haste
6 IUD Boost
4 Shield Clicky
3 Chattering Ring

Total: 52 Boosted/46 Unboosted/43 Unbuffed

or add 2 more if you can UMD Chaosguardes and add Pally Aura if you're standing next to me. Also the Barb can boost to 15/- DR and 5 - 7/- DR normally while having that AC.

It all depends on what kind of gear you have really.


If you're not talking about Smite Evils above, then I can't see you getting that high of a crit on the primary attack without special effects as a Paladin. Your strength is not high enough and you don't have the Power Attack enhancements to help boost your crits up. Unless you're talking about having double stacked Madstone Rage, then your strength could be:

18 Base
3 Levels
3 Tome
6 Item
2 Rage Spell
4 Madstone Rage
Total: 36 or +13 (one-Handed) +19 (Two-Handed)

Which would make your damage bonus:

+19 Strength
+10 Power Attack
+5 Weapon
+3 Divine Favor (Luck Bonus)
Total: 37

versus a barb with 46 Raged Strength w/Double Madstone or +18/+27:

+27 Strength
+16 Power Attack (Non-Warforged)
+5 Weapon
+1 Prayer Spell or Clicky (Luck Bonus)
Total: 47

So you're looking at a base of 37 + 1d12 (6 average) = 43 x3 = 129 crit versus a 47 + 6 = 53 x 3 = 159 base crit without outside bard buffs and other buffs.

So it looks like you have to be assuming your Paladin Smite Evils which at most you're looking at 7 per rest.

nbhs275
08-28-2007, 10:38 AM
So you're saying you do that with with your smite evils? If so that's a limited variety and you have to go by your normal crit. What's your strength mod?

Barbs can get good AC too if they wanted to:

10 Base
13 Mithral Full Plate
3 Max Dex
2 Dwarven Armor Mastery (if Dwarf) or 2 Daggertooth's Belt
3 Barkskin Potion
5 Protection
2 Recitation
1 Haste
6 IUD Boost
4 Shield Clicky
3 Chattering Ring

Total: 52 Boosted/46 Unboosted/43 Unbuffed

or add 2 more if you can UMD Chaosguardes and add Pally Aura if you're standing next to me. Also the Barb can boost to 15/- DR and 5 - 7/- DR normally while having that AC.

It all depends on what kind of gear you have really.


If you're not talking about Smite Evils above, then I can't see you getting that high of a crit on the primary attack without special effects as a Paladin. Your strength is not high enough and you don't have the Power Attack enhancements to help boost your crits up. Unless you're talking about having double stacked Madstone Rage, then your strength could be:

18 Base
3 Levels
3 Tome
6 Item
2 Rage Spell
4 Madstone Rage
Total: 36 or +13 (one-Handed) +19 (Two-Handed)

Which would make your damage bonus:

+19 Strength
+10 Power Attack
+5 Weapon
+3 Divine Favor (Luck Bonus)
Total: 37

versus a barb with 46 Raged Strength w/Double Madstone or +18/+27:

+27 Strength
+16 Power Attack (Non-Warforged)
+5 Weapon
+1 Prayer Spell or Clicky (Luck Bonus)
Total: 47

So you're looking at a base of 37 + 1d12 (6 average) = 43 x3 = 129 crit versus a 47 + 6 = 53 x 3 = 159 base crit without outside bard buffs and other buffs.

So it looks like you have to be assuming your Paladin Smite Evils which at most you're looking at 7 per rest.

No, im not assuming smites. Im talking about MY paladin, hydrargyrum. He's a WF pally 12/2 fighter. Like i said, he hits the 40 str with bladesworn.

SO the breakdown is

2d6+5 base
22 str
16 PA
4 bladesworn
3 divine favor
_________
2d6+50

156-186 without bloodstone or bard

And if i figure in everything you did for AC,

10 base
8 addy
3 dex
5 docent
5 protection
4 paladin bonus
4 (madstone boots)
3 chattering
2 choasguard
2 recitation
1 haste
4 shield clicky
______________
51, 56 with pally armor boost.

But remember, your barbarian is going to take a -6 hit to AC whenever your in DPS mode and raged.

Mal, im not saying my pally does more damage then you, but an amount only slightly less. And my AC will stay high even when in he's in DPS mode. Only time i will outcrit you is on smites, yes. But you will also crit 10% more often with the same weapon.

Maldini
08-28-2007, 11:19 AM
40 Strength with Blades?

18 Base +3 Levels +3 Tome +6 Item +2 Rage Spell = 32

You can only hit 40 with double Madstone and if you have Madstone on you can't cast divine favor on yourself. Plus the Double Madstone is rare since you only get 1 Cast of normal Madstone per rest, so unless you have multiple pairs of boots you're only at 34 normally with the Madstone ability.

So if you keep getting Madstone from getting hit, then your damage goes down because you can't cast Divine Favor. But you could get Prayer cast on you from a Cleric. These are all hypothetical situations and it's my opinion that 40 Strength on a Pally is the exception rather than the norm, plus the Bladesworn doesn't last forever.

So you could potentially get close to a barbarian but it would be for very short bursts in quests in between rest shrines.

A WF Barb could see these damage numbers:

44 Strength with single Madstone or +17

Damage:
+25 Strength
+22 Power Attack (Barb PA III and WF PA III)
+5 Weapon
+1 Prayer or DF
Total: 53 + 2d6 (SoS) with a 13 - 20 Crit Range or 40% chance

If you have Madstone on, you can't really count DF reliably, and you only get Blades for 1 minute every rest. So yeah, for 1 minute you could get close to a barb, but that's it, unless you're counting smites.

Also the AC breakdown wouldn't be much different from a barb, they can get all that plus your aura works on them too.

The only difference is that the Barb can get more DR and boost AC over the Paladin.

nbhs275
08-28-2007, 04:43 PM
Also the AC breakdown wouldn't be much different from a barb, they can get all that plus your aura works on them too.

.

Thing about that is whenever a barbarian is in DPS mode they are taking a 2-4 hit to ac, and your ability to boost up is just as limited as the paladin.

I love these arguements. But thats all they are. Maybe we should get together and put our money where our mouths are. You have the working barbarian, i the working paladin. No e-peen ****, just give us maybe a few baselines for further comparisons.

Maldini
08-28-2007, 06:57 PM
The baselines would be a plain +5 Greataxe, no Madstone Boots (because I don't have any) so the comparison would be equal.

Rage potions are fair game. Which BTW, you take a -2 AC to-hit while having the Rage Spell. I take a -4 AC hit but have a boost of +6 when I need it.

If you can't find me, look for Axer, he's a dwarf version and he'd be more than happy to stand in for me with his Dwarf Axe Damage enhancements.

nbhs275
08-28-2007, 08:22 PM
You don't have a SoS on mal yet?

Maldini
08-28-2007, 08:37 PM
You don't have a SoS on mal yet?


No it's never dropped. I'll get it when hit the 20 raid mark hopefully.

Kalanth
08-29-2007, 08:58 AM
I am looking at this idea and seriously considering it. But I am thinking that I will do a Paladin 3 / Cleric 11 for the saves and fear immunity. I am just not sure what to do with the base abilities just yet.

oberon131313
08-30-2007, 01:15 AM
well, I'm up to level 3, almost level 4 with this build, and I'm outkilling most fighters, and the only thing I'm lacking is extend...
and I'm having a ton of fun

Kalanth
08-31-2007, 06:01 PM
This is what I put down on "paper" in the Cleric forum. I have yet to put the build together in game, though. I have a lack of good Great Swords.


I am not quite accustomed to building melee based characters, so some of this was flailing about while I built the character. The idea is a relatively capable melee character that can utilize the Bladesworn Enhancement while maintaining respectable healing abilities in the character. Having built a Warforged cleric before and played him to 14, I had an idea on how to make the cleric itself effective. I added the Paladin levels for the saving throws and the fighter was for the bonus feat of Weapon Focus.

With the Enhancement and the Feat, Power attack is effectively a -3 on your rolls vs. -5, and with a +5 weapon can be in effect a +2 overall. A penalty, sure, but you still do more damage. No need for shields here, so my standard use of Tower Shield Proficiency with a cleric also goes to the wayside since the Lord of the Blades enhancement is greatsword focused.

The +2 tome assumes that you got 1750, and the +1 assumes that you are willing to spend money on the character. With +6 items for Str, Wis, and Cha you can reach 24, 26, and 20 respectively. Place a +3 tome from reaver raid into Wisdom instead of the +2 and you can reach 28 with a +5 item. And no, I don't reasonably expect you to have a reaver raid +3 tome drop. Just happened to happen for my cleric once.

In effect, I would not say this character is a main liner, but should be able to add some decent supplimental damage to the battle and can still cast heal and raise the dead.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(1 Fighter \ 2 Paladin \ 11 Cleric)
Hit Points: 166
Spell Points: 720
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 7
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 18
Dexterity 12 12
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 14 20
Charisma 12 14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 1 -4
Bluff 1 2
Concentration 1 15
Diplomacy 1 2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 2
Heal 6 6
Hide 1 -4
Intimidate 1 2
Jump 3 0
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 1 -4
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 2 5
Swim 3 -6
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 4 (Cleric)

Level 5 (Cleric)

Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 8 (Cleric)

Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 10 (Cleric)

Level 11 (Cleric)

Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Cleric)

Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend III

Maldini
08-31-2007, 06:19 PM
To be honest, I would drop Dex down and boost up your Con. That way you'll have more HP in the end game, which is important.

Maldini
08-31-2007, 06:20 PM
well, I'm up to level 3, almost level 4 with this build, and I'm outkilling most fighters, and the only thing I'm lacking is extend...
and I'm having a ton of fun


You must not be playing with a lot of barbarians :P

Kalanth
08-31-2007, 09:11 PM
To be honest, I would drop Dex down and boost up your Con. That way you'll have more HP in the end game, which is important.


Yeah, could easily break 200 if I did that. I don't know if I want to though. 12 Dex means I free a spot that would normally be taken by some junk Dex item in order to boost the AC to max, which is why I did that. That and I don't plan to front line it. However, I do see your point and I will be going over this with a comb tomorrow as I reevaluate the build as a whole.

nbhs275
08-31-2007, 09:21 PM
This is what I put down on "paper" in the Cleric forum. I have yet to put the build together in game, though. I have a lack of good Great Swords.

There is no benifit to that build. Building a strength build with moderate//high cha and wisdom on a race that takes a hit too both. Then not maxing str, and putting only two points into con.

Bring con to 14, drop the paladin levels, drop the cha, bring the str to 18.
Should be cleric//fighter 13/1.

str 18 will reach 40 with the right stuff
dex 10 can hit 16, enough to fill out addy with a daggertooth belt
con 16 24-26 easily
int 8 who cares?
wis 13 24 with +2 tome and +6 item
cha 8 yet again, who cares?



Much better DPS, More SP, More HP, More spells, and all your losing is fear immunity (with a will save 20+ not much of a worry) and 1 ac. Your save will still be high. Though reflex might not break 20.( 4 base+3 dex+5 item+4 GH+1 haste= 17)

Maldini
08-31-2007, 09:26 PM
Yeah, could easily break 200 if I did that. I don't know if I want to though. 12 Dex means I free a spot that would normally be taken by some junk Dex item in order to boost the AC to max, which is why I did that. That and I don't plan to front line it. However, I do see your point and I will be going over this with a comb tomorrow as I reevaluate the build as a whole.


Well I mean in reality what do you need the Dex for? Worried about reflex saves? 1 or 2 won't make a huge difference. Worried about AC? You're probably not going to have enough to really make a difference. You should, on the other hand, have an arcane cast Displacement on you, especially if you're going two-handed.

Kalanth
09-01-2007, 09:06 AM
Well I mean in reality what do you need the Dex for? Worried about reflex saves? 1 or 2 won't make a huge difference. Worried about AC? You're probably not going to have enough to really make a difference. You should, on the other hand, have an arcane cast Displacement on you, especially if you're going two-handed.

I see your point, Maldini. I am still on the fence about it, though. I just like knowing that its there if I need it. I have not had the chance to revise it, but I will do so tonight. I am looking at replacing the one fighter level with a 3rd paladin level and then dropping the dex.

And nbhs275, there is always a benefit to a higher saving throw. I played a Warforged cleric that was both high Wis and High Cha by end game. I saw that turning was still working (they don't pop after 10, but if you can make em run that is just as good). And I would like to still try and benefit from that in this build. The one thing I wont be changing is the Cha, especially with the +5 Sacred Docent I have from my (deleted) lvl 14 warforged cleric.

nbhs275
09-01-2007, 12:40 PM
I see your point, Maldini. I am still on the fence about it, though. I just like knowing that its there if I need it. I have not had the chance to revise it, but I will do so tonight. I am looking at replacing the one fighter level with a 3rd paladin level and then dropping the dex.

And nbhs275, there is always a benefit to a higher saving throw. I played a Warforged cleric that was both high Wis and High Cha by end game. I saw that turning was still working (they don't pop after 10, but if you can make em run that is just as good). And I would like to still try and benefit from that in this build. The one thing I wont be changing is the Cha, especially with the +5 Sacred Docent I have from my (deleted) lvl 14 warforged cleric.

Your going to regret it at cap. Your gunna miss out on lvl 7th spells, lots of sp, and are going to be heavily gimped in melee(If your using a shield your not doing much damage at all, your squishy in that 5-6 good hits(many mobs on elite can hit for 35-45 on a normal hit) will kill you with only 200 hp, plus your only getting 50% from your own heals unless you invest heavily into healers friend( 12 AP for 25%). and for the +5 to saves? There is about 1% advantage to a 30 will save over 25, and about.01% advantage to a 35 fort save over 30.

The Turn Undead is no reason to gimp the other 99% of your character.

Kalanth
09-01-2007, 01:47 PM
Your going to regret it at cap. Your gunna miss out on lvl 7th spells, lots of sp, and are going to be heavily gimped in melee(If your using a shield your not doing much damage at all, your squishy in that 5-6 good hits(many mobs on elite can hit for 35-45 on a normal hit) will kill you with only 200 hp, plus your only getting 50% from your own heals unless you invest heavily into healers friend( 12 AP for 25%). and for the +5 to saves? There is about 1% advantage to a 30 will save over 25, and about.01% advantage to a 35 fort save over 30.

The Turn Undead is no reason to gimp the other 99% of your character.

I have had 7th level spells... Yawn. I was bored with Destruction and all the others, they did nothing for me. I understand the AC thing, and HP note as well. I am going through the options to see what appeals to me. But as I said, I played a WF Cleric that only had 183 HP and barely broke 1000 SP (1083 with a scepter of the Magi). I still waded into battle and slugged it out in end game elite quests. It is not just the stats, but the player. Have had that experience I know how to fight with such a character and know full well when to back out of the battle. I will be dropping the Dex to an 8, and will invest it into the Con because it is a reasonable argument to have more HP.

In regards to heal, it always has a critical hit chance for those without Healers Friend. But I would not make a self sufficient character like this without healer’s friend. I know that with the right mix of items and enhancements you can heal a WF just like a fleshy. I have those items in the bank from the old cleric, so healing myself between and during is going to be easy. A stack of wands, a shield in the inventory to boost AC while wanding and scrolling, spells ready to go and an eye on the HP bars all while swinging. Takes practice to do efficiently, but its fun for me.

And I don't look at making things run away while simultaneously boosting saving throws as a gimp factor, but I can understand where others would.

nbhs275
09-01-2007, 02:44 PM
trust me, on a battle cleric, destruction is a great spell. It's a great defensive spell. Zap a caster thats hard to get too, or that ogre smacking the wizard//bard//bad fighter around.

Also, for the crit chance, thats only 9-15% of the time, even with the best items. Making something based of a occurance thats less then 1/4 of the time is quite silly. Like making a wizard who does a whole lotta damage, but the spells only land 9-15% of the time( ala niac's)

Maldini
09-01-2007, 03:56 PM
trust me, on a battle cleric, destruction is a great spell. It's a great defensive spell. Zap a caster thats hard to get too, or that ogre smacking the wizard//bard//bad fighter around.

Also, for the crit chance, thats only 9-15% of the time, even with the best items. Making something based of a occurance thats less then 1/4 of the time is quite silly. Like making a wizard who does a whole lotta damage, but the spells only land 9-15% of the time( ala niac's)


I don't know about that crit theory. A lot of Barbs use GA's, and with a 17 - 20 crit range, so we crit about 25% of the time. You can get 18% crit chance with enhancements and a Superior Lore item isn't anything to laugh at. Barbs crit quite often, so those crits will pop more often than you'd expect.

Kalanth
09-01-2007, 04:39 PM
trust me, on a battle cleric, destruction is a great spell. It's a great defensive spell. Zap a caster thats hard to get too, or that ogre smacking the wizard//bard//bad fighter around.

If I went in there with a 24 Wis for destruction it would not land nearly as much as with a 28 (and so on up the line). Destruction is good for somethings, but as more and more monsters pop up with Death Ward it becomes useless. Destruction is, from experience, situationally great but there are other more note worthy spells in a clerics aresonal. For example, I could splice battle cleric with a page from Darkschneiders book on Null clerics. Slap the right things down, and make a cleric that is casting 600 - 700 point harms. Well past the most damaging effect a saved against Destruction will ever do, and effective against most enemies (flip the spell to Heal for undead).

I have done the straight cleric and know all about destruction. 13 / 1 is not something I am willing to do just for a spell I never really used that much in the first place. I know people do, but there was someone else on these forums that said if you are using just Destruction / PK / FOD for your enemies, you are going to run into problems fast.

nbhs275
09-02-2007, 10:34 AM
I have a battle cleric, and i also know that your gunna have more problems then benefits. The extra draw of having charisma is going to hurt you. Your going to have to fit on a:

+6 cha
+6 con
+6 str
+6 wis
mod fort
wizardry item
Striding
Greater False Life
Resistance item
Protection item
Devotion item

OH, and as far as the heal thing, lets break it down.

Your Spellpoints

485 base
189 wisdom (if you get a +3 tome)
100 magi
60 enhancment
_________
834

You heal spell costs 35 sp, and heals for 143(or 198 with a sup. dev. 6 item) and only heals you for 107( 148 with the devotion). Already your gunna take forever to heal in combat. Not a good thing while your trying to fight.

That plus the costs of your buffs and your gunna be hurting.

Your gunna wanna have fire resist(15), acid resist(15), Deathward(25), True seeing(30), Spell resistance(30), freedom of movement(25), and nightshield(10) for 150. Nevermind if your buffing others.

It costs 52 SP every time you cast your DF+DP cocktail. So just ten minutes of your fight buffs cost 260.

So without the cost of healing your out 410 SP for the first ten minutes. That leaves enough SP for 12 Heal spells. That means that you have to hit shrines ASAP, because with the low efficiency of your heals, low AC, and below average damage your gunna burn through those.

And please don't use heal scrolls as an excuse. Your gunna **** if your using scrolls in the middle of a fight.

oberon131313
09-02-2007, 03:36 PM
You must not be playing with a lot of barbarians :P

I *did* say fighters. :p

Symar-FangofLloth
09-11-2007, 06:14 PM
not a bad idea. If you want to get into just weird multiclass though, 6 bard/ 6 cleric/ 2 barbarian. 3 rages, can hit the 44 str, and has a decent little song. not optimal but could be interesting.

I'm going to try out 6cleric/ 6rogue (way of the assassin) / 2fighter, and put this to the test.

nbhs275
09-12-2007, 01:08 PM
they way of the assasin is what? intel damage?

Vaarsuvius
09-13-2007, 01:54 PM
I just rolled up a wf cleric because of this enhancment. I am excited to see how he turns out after hearing about how uber battleclerics are. I see here everybody wants to have 3 classes, has anyone considered going straight cleric or 13 cleric / 1 pally like some of the BC builds. This would be my first, first cleric and first WF, is there a reason not to go all cleric or 13/1?

Sadus
09-13-2007, 02:10 PM
This is my Current WF Pally triple class...

One of the very nice things about this guys is I can play with a lot of stats. As I upgrade from +2 tomes to +3's I can drop enhancements points to keep myself even.

This guy is a good mix of offense and survivability (High AC, LOH, High Svs, Evasion, WF Immunities (Can we say LvL Drain Anyone???))

With Khopesh's and a Bloodstone he crits 100+ plus burst damage... (Although I do admit I have a better collection than most avg. players)

I have no delusions that I'm going to out DPS a Barb... but then again I'll live thru things that barbs couldn't possibly even imagine... so it takes me 2-3 more swings to kill something.... oh well... I'll take my survivability over their improved dps.


Here is his break down for his 1 min of glory :) Using SoS

+17 Str (Assuming DDO Rounds Up)
+5 Wep
+12 PA
+1 Rage
+2 Madstone
+2 BladeTrans
+4 BladeTrans
+3 Divine Favor
+9 Smite Evil

+55 Total to damage

So Normal Hit Damage Range is 2d6 = 56-67 / Critical Hit = 186-219

As my levels increase my Smite Damage will increase and I will be able to increase my WF PA Bonus. The Obvious use of this ability is to boost damage vs Raid Bosses during the final beat down.... Given the current 20 Min Cool Down... ATM I don't actually have the enhancement using instead Brute Fighting IV for 25% Hate Increase and +1 Str since I haven't gotten a +3 Str Tome Yet.

I'll have 3 LOH to keep myself up if I grab aggro... and my AC will still be in the mid 40's using SoS so I won't be an cough on me and hit me like most Barbs :)

IMO this enhancement works much better on WF Paladins do to their generally high offense output to a cleric and since they can still use LOH while BT is active.

Here's the Build...


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(3 Fighter \ 9 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 254
Spell Points: 126
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 16
Will: 12

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 16 22 22
Dexterity 13 16 16
Constitution 13 16 18
Intelligence 11 14 14
Wisdom 11 14 14
Charisma 12 15 17

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 6 10 8
Bluff 1 3 3
Concentration 2 4 4
Diplomacy 1 3 3
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 5 7 7
Heal 1 2 2
Hide 2 3 1
Intimidate 5 19.5 20.5
Jump 7 10 8
Listen 1 2 2
Move Silently 2 3 1
Open Lock 6 7 8
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 1 2 2
Search 1 2 2
Spot 5 6 6
Swim 7 10 6
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 20 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh

Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Intimidate (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I



AC Break Down

(Self-Buffed)
10 Base
10 Armor
9 Shield
5 Dex
3 Aura
4 Natural (Usually Use Madstone While Tanking)
5 Protection
6 Dodge
1 Haste
1 Parry (Current Tanking Weapon is a +3 Bodyfeeder Scimitar of Parrying)
2 Defensive Fighting

56 Total

+1 Full Pally (or when I hit lvl 11 Pally)
+1 Ranger Bark
+2 Recitation

60 Fully Buffed

+1 @ lvl 11 Pally for Full Aura
+3 More Down the Road when I pick up Combat Expertise.

The boat is still out on the lvl 20 Plan....

Either going to go 11 Pal/7 Fit/2 Rogue fore more AC via Armor Mastery I + Tower Shield Master II & +2 Strength Enhancement w/ Weapon Specialization

Or 14 Pal / 4 Fit / 2 Rog for Self-Cast Deathward better LOH & Smites & Wep Specialization

I'll just have to see... :)

nbhs275
09-13-2007, 04:35 PM
I just rolled up a wf cleric because of this enhancment. I am excited to see how he turns out after hearing about how uber battleclerics are. I see here everybody wants to have 3 classes, has anyone considered going straight cleric or 13 cleric / 1 pally like some of the BC builds. This would be my first, first cleric and first WF, is there a reason not to go all cleric or 13/1?

Nope, either cleric 14 or cleric 13/ fighter class 1 works. Barbarian is fun for the once a rest rage, though fighter and pally is always a good choice(please dont be a moron and poor points into cha is you use pally, 2-4 is good.

nbhs275
09-13-2007, 04:48 PM
This is my Current WF Pally triple class...

One of the very nice things about this guys is I can play with a lot of stats. As I upgrade from +2 tomes to +3's I can drop enhancements points to keep myself even.

This guy is a good mix of offense and survivability (High AC, LOH, High Svs, Evasion, WF Immunities (Can we say LvL Drain Anyone???))

With Khopesh's and a Bloodstone he crits 100+ plus burst damage... (Although I do admit I have a better collection than most avg. players)

I have no delusions that I'm going to out DPS a Barb... but then again I'll live thru things that barbs couldn't possibly even imagine... so it takes me 2-3 more swings to kill something.... oh well... I'll take my survivability over their improved dps.


Here is his break down for his 1 min of glory :) Using SoS

+17 Str (Assuming DDO Rounds Up)
+5 Wep
+12 PA
+1 Rage
+2 Madstone
+2 BladeTrans
+4 BladeTrans
+3 Divine Favor
+9 Smite Evil

+55 Total to damage

So Normal Hit Damage Range is 2d6 = 56-67 / Critical Hit = 186-219

As my levels increase my Smite Damage will increase and I will be able to increase my WF PA Bonus. The Obvious use of this ability is to boost damage vs Raid Bosses during the final beat down.... Given the current 20 Min Cool Down... ATM I don't actually have the enhancement using instead Brute Fighting IV for 25% Hate Increase and +1 Str since I haven't gotten a +3 Str Tome Yet.

I'll have 3 LOH to keep myself up if I grab aggro... and my AC will still be in the mid 40's using SoS so I won't be an cough on me and hit me like most Barbs :)

IMO this enhancement works much better on WF Paladins do to their generally high offense output to a cleric and since they can still use LOH while BT is active.

Here's the Build...


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(3 Fighter \ 9 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 254
Spell Points: 126
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 16
Will: 12

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 16 22 22
Dexterity 13 16 16
Constitution 13 16 18
Intelligence 11 14 14
Wisdom 11 14 14
Charisma 12 15 17

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 6 10 8
Bluff 1 3 3
Concentration 2 4 4
Diplomacy 1 3 3
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 5 7 7
Heal 1 2 2
Hide 2 3 1
Intimidate 5 19.5 20.5
Jump 7 10 8
Listen 1 2 2
Move Silently 2 3 1
Open Lock 6 7 8
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 1 2 2
Search 1 2 2
Spot 5 6 6
Swim 7 10 6
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 20 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh

Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Intimidate (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I



AC Break Down

(Self-Buffed)
10 Base
10 Armor
9 Shield
5 Dex
3 Aura
4 Natural (Usually Use Madstone While Tanking)
5 Protection
6 Dodge
1 Haste
1 Parry (Current Tanking Weapon is a +3 Bodyfeeder Scimitar of Parrying)
2 Defensive Fighting

56 Total

+1 Full Pally (or when I hit lvl 11 Pally)
+1 Ranger Bark
+2 Recitation

60 Fully Buffed

+1 @ lvl 11 Pally for Full Aura
+3 More Down the Road when I pick up Combat Expertise.

The boat is still out on the lvl 20 Plan....

Either going to go 11 Pal/7 Fit/2 Rogue fore more AC via Armor Mastery I + Tower Shield Master II & +2 Strength Enhancement w/ Weapon Specialization

Or 14 Pal / 4 Fit / 2 Rog for Self-Cast Deathward better LOH & Smites & Wep Specialization

I'll just have to see... :)

Not bad, comparable to hydra. Only difference is my DPS is higher and you have evasion. His AC is

10 base
13 addy body
3 dex
5 dodge
5 protection
4 natural
4 aura
9 shield
_________
53 standing, can add

+1 ranger barkskin
+1 parrying weapon
+2 defensive fighting
+2 recitation
+1 haste
_________
60 fully buffed

But my SoS DPS is far higher in the godmode minute

2d6 +5 base

+22 str
+16 PA
+4 BS
+3 DF
______
2d6+50, 52-62 normal hits, 174-204. Smites add 43 damage, for smite crits in the range of 303-333. Before bard songs.

Sadus
09-13-2007, 07:16 PM
Not bad, comparable to hydra. Only difference is my DPS is higher and you have evasion. His AC is

10 base
13 addy body
3 dex
5 dodge
5 protection
4 natural
4 aura
9 shield
_________
53 standing, can add

+1 ranger barkskin
+1 parrying weapon
+2 defensive fighting
+2 recitation
+1 haste
_________
60 fully buffed

But my SoS DPS is far higher in the godmode minute

2d6 +5 base

+22 str
+16 PA
+4 BS
+3 DF
______
2d6+50, 52-62 normal hits, 174-204. Smites add 43 damage, for smite crits in the range of 303-333. Before bard songs.

What can I saw I'm hooked to being basically Immune to Reflex saves damage :)

Btw how are u getting 3 dex? I'm going to assume you've got 11 levels of Pally to get full AC 4 Aura. Unless this is Hydra @ lvl 20? If you want to make a direct comparison only be fair to Compare Hydra @ lvl 14 as my #'s are all @ lvl 14

And how are u getting +22 Str Damage? As a Pally can't get 44 Strength even with Rage + Madstone + Blade Trans Max Str for pally @ lvl 14 is 31 + 2 Rage + 4 Madstone + 4 BT = 41. Also smite Evil only adds your Pally Level to Damage so even 14 Pally only get +14 from Smite Evil. Unless again these are your #'s @ level 20? Although your Smite Damage is way off you can't x3 it twice :)


Smite Evil
Cool Down 6 Seconds

Using this attack, you call upon all of the paladin's ability to strike down evil creatures, gaining twice your charisma score to your attack roll and a damage bonus on your paladin level.

Might wanna rework your #'s

nbhs275
12-13-2007, 03:16 PM
What can I saw I'm hooked to being basically Immune to Reflex saves damage :)

Btw how are u getting 3 dex? I'm going to assume you've got 11 levels of Pally to get full AC 4 Aura. Unless this is Hydra @ lvl 20? If you want to make a direct comparison only be fair to Compare Hydra @ lvl 14 as my #'s are all @ lvl 14

And how are u getting +22 Str Damage? As a Pally can't get 44 Strength even with Rage + Madstone + Blade Trans Max Str for pally @ lvl 14 is 31 + 2 Rage + 4 Madstone + 4 BT = 41. Also smite Evil only adds your Pally Level to Damage so even 14 Pally only get +14 from Smite Evil. Unless again these are your #'s @ level 20? Although your Smite Damage is way off you can't x3 it twice :)



Might wanna rework your #'s

22 str damage on a 2 hander is only 40 str. hydra does it with

18 base
+3 level
+2 tome
+1 enhancment
+6 item
+2 rage
+4 madstone x2
+4 bladesworn
_______________
40 str

If you got 22 str damage from 44 str, you must think str bonus is str /2, not {(str -10)/2} x1.5

And paladin smite isnt damage equal to paladin level, its BASED of paladin level.

As far as AC, +3 dex is addy body with my daggertooth belt on. If you dont know, it give fighter armor mastery II.

This is hydrargyrum, as is, at level 14.

captain1z
12-17-2007, 07:17 PM
I built a 6 cleric/ 8 fighter with the bladesworn enhancement


but hes starting to feel a little useless to me (granted atm im only 6/2 but the intent is 6/8)

the enhancement is good but only while its working makes me think I would have done better as a full fighter



time to re-roll me thinks

unholy1
01-16-2008, 03:07 PM
are you guys really arguing about dps from pallys vs barbs? cmon ... they are 2 diifernt classe ... pallys are built for survival and barbs are built for dps only... yes its tru that they make great fighting companions but my barb will heavily out damage anyone - granted the example isnt what i have but rahter what im going for ... so catch this

lvl 12 barb lvl 2 fighter

str
18 base
3 lvl
3 tome
1 enhancment fighters str 1
6 item
8 greater rage
3 enhancment for power rage
2 rage soell
4 madstone rage
8 scourge choker ='s

56 str ... ok thats not counting the addtitonal 22 con ill get from all the stacking rages ( not to mention the barb HD ='s around 550 hp fully hemped up on rageahol) .. and granted i have no idea how long the madstone rage lasts, but when spec'ed for extended rage at max and extra rage at max you end up w 8 rages per rest and each one is like 3 min = 24 min of rage per rest with aproximately 46-52 str? add in the sowrd of shadows and cirtical rage 2 making my crit mange w SoS 14-20? in higher lv mobs if i hit im going to crit... nuff said oh and as far as AC yeah its atrocious but hey if im fighting a mob that can do 600 pts of dmg to me w dr7 - or dr 15 before i can do 2000 pts of damage well then ... good luck to the rest of the party. hey maldini master of numbers add these totals up for me and fing out what type of crit totals were talking ... oh and the only thing im missing from this list is the scourge choker, madstone boots and the SoS :( but its a helluva goal !!!

Hvymetal
01-16-2008, 04:15 PM
are you guys really arguing about dps from pallys vs barbs? cmon ... they are 2 diifernt classe ... pallys are built for survival and barbs are built for dps only... yes its tru that they make great fighting companions but my barb will heavily out damage anyone - granted the example isnt what i have but rahter what im going for ... so catch this

lvl 12 barb lvl 2 fighter

str
18 base
3 lvl
3 tome
1 enhancment fighters str 1
6 item
8 greater rage
3 enhancment for power rage
2 rage soell
4 madstone rage
8 scourge choker ='s

56 str ... ok thats not counting the addtitonal 22 con ill get from all the stacking rages ( not to mention the barb HD ='s around 550 hp fully hemped up on rageahol) .. and granted i have no idea how long the madstone rage lasts, but when spec'ed for extended rage at max and extra rage at max you end up w 8 rages per rest and each one is like 3 min = 24 min of rage per rest with aproximately 46-52 str? add in the sowrd of shadows and cirtical rage 2 making my crit mange w SoS 14-20? in higher lv mobs if i hit im going to crit... nuff said oh and as far as AC yeah its atrocious but hey if im fighting a mob that can do 600 pts of dmg to me w dr7 - or dr 15 before i can do 2000 pts of damage well then ... good luck to the rest of the party. hey maldini master of numbers add these totals up for me and fing out what type of crit totals were talking ... oh and the only thing im missing from this list is the scourge choker, madstone boots and the SoS :( but its a helluva goal !!!

Shooo back to the Barb forums with you, you don't look like a Warforged, and regardless your Barb doesn't have the Bladesworn Transformation does he? No? Then off with you....

cinoaz
03-01-2008, 11:34 AM
I'm doing the 14/1 Warforge Cleric/Fighter combo, currently at 5/1 mix, because like everyone here I wanted to see what I could do with Bladesworn Trans.

Reading through here, with Epic Gear, +3 tomes flying by, +6 items, buffs from other classes, if all the moons align and the Winter Solistice passes through Jupiter, my Crit can hit for 3 more pts of damage. Okay, enough already.

I didn't know Bladesworn was available to Pallys either, I thought it was just Cleric, but they are very different. A BattleCleric isn't going to out DPS any fighter class, a BattleCleric isn't going to out AC any tank build (ala Pally), a BattleCleric isn't going to out sling a spellcaster.

A BattleCleric is an awesome second line fighter, and a good melee support person for non melee types. Also, with quicken heal, the point is to win the fight, A BattleCleric can outlast most everything, while still putting up some DPS numbers, not huge, but enough.

Also, the BattleCleric can do Group Buffs, Crowd Control, Offensive Spells, Defensive Spells, etc, none of which are supreme over any other class, but they are all good, not great, but good. Given how they are used, with bit of finesse, they are great, which makes BattleClerics fun.

I'm taking my +1 Holy Greataxe and +3 docent and go do some healing on both the Bbn and Pally since they decided to charge off into the melee again.

Shima-ra
03-01-2008, 01:27 PM
You dont have to be a cleric, it is also available to wf paladins.
If you have a wf paladin, its worth getting it.

brshelton
03-01-2008, 01:31 PM
it comes on pally too. Which is much better in this case, especially when you have 2-3 LoH to use on yourself while in that mode. Also note its not +4 attack, but +4 damage.

so a good WF pally can post one HUGE damage stick.

So with the idle weapon, the SoS, you have
2d6 +5 weapon +16 PA +3DF +4 Bladesworn +22 STR+ 8 Bard= 2d6+58 15-20/x3.

60-70, 180-210 crits, and a smite evil from a full paladin adds 49 damage. 109-119 normal hit, crit 327-357. Add 18 with bloodstone Although thats fully maxed. So far my offensive paladin based on this has to date hit 306 as his highest smite crit with his sword of shadows. Though he doesnt have the madstone boots or bloodstone.

Mal whats the best crit your barb does?

my rangers best is 238 with 10 attacks per a round