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Cold_Stele
08-19-2007, 07:26 PM
OK so I'm sure all of this stuff was covered before the Classes section of the DDO Forums were trashed.

I want to roll a 32 point Cleric but am unsure which direction I want to go in. I've taken both a Battle Cleric and Healbot to about 8th or 9th level but I want to quit fooling around with builds and actually level cap and keep one.

So, from what I've read to date it appears to me that pure Clerics fall into one of three categories -

1. Healbot/Buffbot
2. STR based Battle Cleric
3. Combat Caster

Am I correct though in saying the following -

STR based Battle Clerics are becoming increasingly redundant now as any Divine caster who wishes to act offensively can Slay Living, etc. much more efficiently?

Any Cleric with a maxed WIS, mid level CON and CHA, and low STR, DEX and INT can basically go on to become a Healbot and/or Combat Caster as s/he sees fit by swappping out feats and enhancements to do either one role or the other (or both)?

So - if I go Dwarf or Human with Wis 18, CON and CHA around 14 or so and a STR, DEX and INT of 8, I'm guessing that I basically can't go wrong? I can choose to go defensive initially and if I don't like the way the toon is heading just swap out feats and concentrate more on offence, with the only limiting factor being the number of Dragonshards I can get my hands on?

So have I got that right, or am I horribly, horribly wrong?

Oh - and whilst I've got your attention - Skills. Concentration is obviously a must. What about Heal, Diplomacy and Jump though? Which of these are most important and why??

Many thanks

Stele

Blazer
08-19-2007, 07:39 PM
I think it's been generally agreed that if you break up a cleric's abilities into those 3 categories, one can usually only excel in 2 out of 3. Any cleric can be a healbot/buffbot, really, since it doesn't matter what your WIS is, as long as it's high enough to actually cast the spells you want, you're all set. The divide comes from if you put your level ups into STR (battle cleric) or WIS (combat casting cleric).

Maybe try these for starting stats as a human:

STR - 12
DEX - 8
CON - 14
INT - 8
WIS - 18
CHA - 12

Better starting STR, not for fighting so much, but more so you can lug your heavy armor and shield around and not be hurt by it so much. You lose 1 DV by 12 CHA vs 14, but that can be made up with enhancements. Level up points into WIS to keep your casting power top notch.

Skill points go into Concentration and Balance, hopefully preventing turtle syndrome when you get tripped, which will happen - you will get tripped or knocked over. Invest in Balance so you can get back up. Screw Heal and Diplo, neither is worth the investment as a cleric. Jump isn't necessary since the spell only costs 10 pts from a wiz/sorc/ranger. If they're making noise about giving the cleric jump, just remind them who's watching the red health bars. :) If you really want a 3rd skill point, massage your stats to start with a 10 INT. Heck, 9 even if you've got a +1 INT tome lying around.

PurdueDave
08-19-2007, 07:44 PM
For skills, after concentration I like balance. You can get by without balance but you need to wear a nice balance item (like Hobnail boots at +15 or thereabouts).

IMX, I don't like putting a lot of points into CHA. I did it on my retired cleric and I wish I didn't. In the end, having an extra DV, DH, whatever never seemed to matter. If I was doing an 18 WIS cleric, I'd dump stat CHA. That's just me, though.

In general, when I'm planning a cleric I like to pick a race (or maybe a second class) that lets me spend a few APs on useful things. It always seems I'm fighting the progression requirements early on and wind up taking stuff I don't like. Your build might be different on that count, though.

That's just my 2 cents of the top of my head.

Frodo_Lives
08-20-2007, 11:11 AM
Dwarves make great clerics, and I agree that I'd keep Cha as a bit of a dump stat.

I wouldn't go higher than a 14 on anything (16 if dwarf for Con) in anything other than Wisdom. Battle clerics that melee can be very good, but the higher level you go the more magic seems to trump melee. Caster cleric w/ healing ability is the way to go.

Hokonoso
08-20-2007, 03:07 PM
I'm having fun with a high int/wis/cha umd cleric (1bard 13cleric), using fireball wands is more fun than the regular routine of things, and having 1 bard makes the mana insane cause cha + wis = insane mana! I can heal just as good as any other cleric and as far as I'm concerned that is the only reason to invite one to a group so the rest is just for fun :P

Grenfell
08-24-2007, 12:10 AM
OK so I'm sure all of this stuff was covered before the Classes section of the DDO Forums were trashed.

I want to roll a 32 point Cleric but am unsure which direction I want to go in. I've taken both a Battle Cleric and Healbot to about 8th or 9th level but I want to quit fooling around with builds and actually level cap and keep one.

So, from what I've read to date it appears to me that pure Clerics fall into one of three categories -

1. Healbot/Buffbot
2. STR based Battle Cleric
3. Combat Caster

Am I correct though in saying the following -

STR based Battle Clerics are becoming increasingly redundant now as any Divine caster who wishes to act offensively can Slay Living, etc. much more efficiently?

Any Cleric with a maxed WIS, mid level CON and CHA, and low STR, DEX and INT can basically go on to become a Healbot and/or Combat Caster as s/he sees fit by swappping out feats and enhancements to do either one role or the other (or both)?

So - if I go Dwarf or Human with Wis 18, CON and CHA around 14 or so and a STR, DEX and INT of 8, I'm guessing that I basically can't go wrong? I can choose to go defensive initially and if I don't like the way the toon is heading just swap out feats and concentrate more on offence, with the only limiting factor being the number of Dragonshards I can get my hands on?

So have I got that right, or am I horribly, horribly wrong?

Oh - and whilst I've got your attention - Skills. Concentration is obviously a must. What about Heal, Diplomacy and Jump though? Which of these are most important and why??

Many thanks

Stele

Clerics are an extremely flexible class and it's hard to ruin a cleric build. But the surest way to shut down options is the one thing you cannot change easily: stats and class distributions.

Consider this: If you rolled a 32pt cleric with --

str 14
dex 10
con 14
wis 16
Int 10
cha 14

you could go down any of the lines you wish just by tweaking your feats and enhancements.

Want to battle? Pick up Power Attack, maybe a Martial Weapon (or the longsword enhancement line that gives you proficiency), a Toughness feat perhaps, or something, and voila - you're a reasonably good battle cleric. You could be lvl 13 and thinking, man, I really wish I could fight better. Okay, pick up a level of Fighter or Paladin and you're a better fighter with all of the martial weapons.

Want to cast? Pick up Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, etc. and voila -- you're an offensive caster.

Want to healbot? Just pick up some scrolls and a Devotion item and voila, you're a healer.

No doubt a more min/maxed build would let you specialize much further -- higher Str or higher Wis, etc. but the reality is that we're talking fairly marginal differences here between having 18 buffed Str vs. 22 buffed Str. You'll miss more often, do less damage, but you CAN fight.

With min/max scores, that flexibility is gone. With 8 str and dex, you're not fighting, period. You're now locked into the healer/offensive casting role.

Same thing if you go with 18 Str and 12 Wis, then you're not going to be offensive casting much at all.

So the first decision is the critical one, IMHO: What kind of cleric do you want to be? You've played enough levelling two clerics to 9ish or so to know what sort of playstyle you enjoy more -- hang back and cast, or be up front swinging a weapon.

My personal bias is obviously towards the battle cleric builds -- I really believe that a well-built and well-played battle cleric is a very good DPS'er with self-healing and moderate offensive casting capabilities, and could give the fighters a run for their money. Certainly, they're not significantly worse than Paladins as an off-tank. And the flexibility of having another full-plate wearing combatant means one fewer squishy in the party.

To attenuate the impact of specialization, I would recommend a moderate, Warpriest-type of stats with a good spread of stats for maximum flexibility:

(This is for Human, 32pt)

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Cha 12

Add to Wisdom, and you'll never be more than +1 DC behind the most dedicated of offensive casting builds, while not being more than +3 to hit/damage as compared to the most min/maxed pure cleric battle cleric builds.

Note:
18 str +3 levels + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 human str = 30 str or +10 bonus vs
16 str +2 tome +6 item = 24 str or +7 bonus.

18 wis + 3 levels + 3 enh + 2 tome +6 item = 32 Wis
16 wis + 3 levels + 3 enh + 2 tome +6 item = 30 Wis

/gren

Shrazkil
08-24-2007, 01:07 AM
My personal preference is a blend of combat caster/battlecleric.

1 fighter/13 cleric Human

16 str
8 dex
14 con
8 int
18 wis
8 cha

Just keep maxing your wisdom , You have the luxury of having the highest mana base(for healbot), Highest DC (for combat casting/CC), and with human adaptability , up to 32 str max(battle-cleric) . Its best of all worlds, you only suffer in turning and dv's (which i use for divine cleansing).

Grenfell
08-24-2007, 08:42 AM
My personal preference is a blend of combat caster/battlecleric.

1 fighter/13 cleric Human

16 str
8 dex
14 con
8 int
18 wis
8 cha

Just keep maxing your wisdom , You have the luxury of having the highest mana base(for healbot), Highest DC (for combat casting/CC), and with human adaptability , up to 32 str max(battle-cleric) . Its best of all worlds, you only suffer in turning and dv's (which i use for divine cleansing).

I like it too -- but there is no way to get 32 Str max if you're bumping wisdom.

Current max possible for a 16 Str start Human is 26:

16 + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 1 Human Str = 26.

Unless you mean with short-term buffs: Rage, Madstone Rage, Madstone Rage proc.

But clerics with Madstone make very little sense....

/gren

Shrazkil
08-24-2007, 11:12 AM
I like it too -- but there is no way to get 32 Str max if you're bumping wisdom.

Current max possible for a 16 Str start Human is 26:

16 + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 1 Human Str = 26.

Unless you mean with short-term buffs: Rage, Madstone Rage, Madstone Rage proc.

But clerics with Madstone make very little sense....

/gren

Yeah i was using MAX posible. Realistically will sit around 26 - 28 if raged.