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Draclaud
08-16-2007, 11:04 AM
This is an observation to all of the TWF barbarian builds I'm seeing. Isn't a bit counter-productive to have a TWF barbarian? Seems that with the 17 dex you need to spend to make it worthwhile, It might be a better use of points to max out con and str since you'll be getting hit every time anyway...Am I missing something? I realize I'll get all of the "Don't pigeon-hole a class, there can be different ways to build a character blah blah," but that's not what this is about. Reguardless, there are builds that are more effective and focus on a classes strengths instead of trying to be quirky. Just seems to me that a TWF doesn't build on a barbaian's strengths.

rimble
08-16-2007, 11:10 AM
This is an observation to all of the TWF barbarian builds I'm seeing. Isn't a bit counter-productive to have a TWF barbarian? Seems that with the 17 dex you need to spend to make it worthwhile, It might be a better use of points to max out con and str since you'll be getting hit every time anyway...Am I missing something? I realize I'll get all of the "Don't pigeon-hole a class, there can be different ways to build a character blah blah," but that's not what this is about. Reguardless, there are builds that are more effective and focus on a classes strengths instead of trying to be quirky. Just seems to me that a TWF doesn't build on a barbaian's strengths.

I kind of disagree. I know Barbarians need their high hit points, and high Strength is awesome...but when I see builds quoting a 40 Strength and 40 Con at level 14 while raged and buffed and whatnot...I can't help but think...if you started your Strength at 16 instead of 18, so you could put your Dex up to 17 (or 15/16 depending on your available tomes)...are you really going to be that gimped with just a 38 Strength? I think dual-wielding Rapiers with obscene crit ranges is absolutely playing to a Barbarians strengths.

Why not shave a few points off your ridiculously high stats and pick up some skills or higher saves or somethin'?

BAM! BAM! BAM! GOTTA SMASH! GOTTA CRIT FOR 461!!

Shade
08-16-2007, 02:59 PM
Yep. Really not worth it to go TWF as a barb due to the high costs. You can pull it off if you plan to get all the raid gear, +2/3 tomes and whatnot, but even then you'll barely keep up with another barb who went THF and has no raid gear or tomes.

Rapiers are awful weapons for a barbarian, so small and flimsy. They give you a puny 100% str mod dmg bonus, or even worse 75% overall if you dual weild em. Then take away another 8-11 damage for -50% power attack penalty and your cute 13-20 crit range doesn't look so hot anymore.

If your all about a silly crit range you can get the same as a rapier on the Sword of swords, and deal x3 dmg on crits with the full 150% and +16-22 dmg power attack. Rapiers have no raid weapon.

Shade
08-16-2007, 03:04 PM
Why not shave a few points off your ridiculously high stats and pick up some skills or higher saves or somethin'?

18 str costs a bit, but thats all you need. All the rest of points can go into saves and INT for skills if one wanted. Con is important but really easy to get up high with the right enhancements.

10 wis and 12 dex can net you +30 will save and +22/28 (uncanny dodge) reflex save, plenty high.

8 int gives you 3 skill points, enough for the important things: Jump, Balance and Spot (or listen in mod5) 10 might be ok to drop the odd rank into tumble, swim or heal, but none of those are that important.

sigtrent
08-16-2007, 03:10 PM
Partly its a style thing... some folks just like TWF, and some folks like to just do things differently.

I will say that TWF pick wielders and TWF rapier wielders can do some serious damage and the 16 dex doesn't cost all that much. (you don't need to go to 17 at start and usualy wouldn't)

For picks, its a question of getting the X4 crits cupled with burst weapons and thier 3d10 bonus damage.

For rapiers its usualy to use wounding/puncturing weapons. The three additional attacks makes a big difference with the stat damage and when you add stat damage to strong base damage it is a sight to behold! The higher the con/hp on a critter the harder those con points hit them. With a red name you would pull out the SOS.

Also keep in mind that when not using glancing blows you reduce your agro profile a bit from muliple mobs which means you need a bit less HP to stay alive.

Finaly you get a decent reflex save and better AC potential out of it. Those might not be key to a barbarians role, but it doesn't suck to have them.

None of this is to say TWF is better than THF, I honestly don't think it is, but it's comperable in an well crafted build. I think the number crunching I've seen has THF come out on top, but not by a huge margin and some of the TWF profiles had better numbers given certain extreemly rare weapon configurations on lowish AC targets.

Blazer
08-16-2007, 03:14 PM
This is an observation to all of the TWF barbarian builds I'm seeing. Isn't a bit counter-productive to have a TWF barbarian? Seems that with the 17 dex you need to spend to make it worthwhile, It might be a better use of points to max out con and str since you'll be getting hit every time anyway...Am I missing something?

Well, from what you've written here, talking about "getting hit every time anyway", it seems you believe the TWF barbs are investing in DEX to boost their AC. All the TWF barbs I've seen are doing it to gain GTWF and dual wield picks. With Imp. Crit. Pierce and the Crit Rage II, they are looking at 17-20/x4 with 7 attacks/round.

I'm terrible at crunching numbers, so I'm not here to say that 17-20/x4 with 7 attacks is better than, equal to, or less than a 13-20/x3 (SOS) or 17-20/x3 (Greataxe) at 4 attacks/round for a THF barb. Just saying that's probably their thinking. X4 crits on a barb must be huge with PA running.

EDIT: I see Sigtrent pretty much said the same thing I did. Oh well, that's what I get for typing too slow.

rimble
08-16-2007, 03:51 PM
*sigh* I wanna slap whoever thought it was a good idea to screw with established crit-range and crit-modifiers on weapons. Good ol' Sword of Shadows, counter-argument to everything...and, unfortunately, rightly so.

Casta
08-16-2007, 04:41 PM
*sigh* I wanna slap whoever thought it was a good idea to screw with established crit-range and crit-modifiers on weapons. Good ol' Sword of Shadows, counter-argument to everything...and, unfortunately, rightly so.

I agree with this they need to make more of them, or less. Throw in some 19-20 x5 light picks to ballence it out a little, and while there doing that how about a raid greataxe because the only 2 handers are greatswords.

Sydril
08-16-2007, 04:46 PM
Theres a few ways to skin a cat, and theres min max. You can run a TWF barb and be effective. you may not out pace a THF specced barb in damage but you'll have a few more options in the way of weapon effects and stat damage.

Min max barbarian built purely for damage two handed is the way to go if all you want to do is boatloads of damage. If you get bored by the excruciating dullness of one trick wonders a twf build is something to consider.

Its all about what you want and if you can find a way to be effective doing what you want then thats all that matters. A TWF barbarian can certainly be very effective.

Quartzite
08-16-2007, 04:54 PM
I agree with this they need to make more of them, or less. Throw in some 19-20 x5 light picks to ballence it out a little, and while there doing that how about a raid greataxe because the only 2 handers are greatswords.

Show me a couple of 19-20/x4 +5 Dwarven Axes and I'll show you how TWF is better than THF.

Impaqt
08-16-2007, 04:55 PM
Why do folks insist on starting threads that are nothing but an attack on how people want to play the game? I see this all the time in regards to the builds folks play.

Heres an idea....

Play your own build the way you want to play, and let other folks play their builds the way they want to play.

How is anyone effected if joe barbarian like to dual weild Rapiers, Or Kopeshes for that matter, instead of swinging a greatsword?

Quartzite
08-16-2007, 05:04 PM
Why do folks insist on starting threads that are nothing but an attack on how people want to play the game? I see this all the time in regards to the builds folks play.

Heres an idea....

Play your own build the way you want to play, and let other folks play their builds the way they want to play.

How is anyone effected if joe barbarian like to dual weild Rapiers, Or Kopeshes for that matter, instead of swinging a greatsword?

I totally agree in most cases. However some builds so bad that they DO drag the whole party down. But a well built TWF fighter/ barb is viable. Viability is what matters, not perfection.

mgoldb2
08-16-2007, 05:13 PM
Seems that with the 17 dex you need to spend to make it worthwhile, It might be a better use of points to max out con and str since you'll be getting hit every time anyway

Meh I got a max out 2 handed fighting barbarian I been playing for a long time. Personally I find maxing out con over-rated. I started with a 14 con and hp never been a problem for me.

My starting stats was 18,14, 14. This was a 28 point build. With a 32 point build you could simply up the dex by 2 and take a +1 dex tome and you already got the 17 rq. My build was human if you dwarf your con would be starting at 16. No reason you can’t max out str on a twf if you wanted.

Also my starting base 14con barbarian fully boosted can still hit 40con……but generally am running around with 32/36 con which works fine. Maxing out con would of meant an extra 28hp with current level cap or 40hp at level 20. Not that huge of deal.

Reaching 17dex dont come at that high of cost if that the direction you want to take your build.

Desteria
08-17-2007, 02:19 PM
I was thining TWF paired kopeshes woudl be ncie shoudl average out beter then paired pickes because 19-20x3 > 20x4, touhg witht all the enhancment i think they coem out about the same in the end (15-20x3= 18 times damage on 15+ rolls; 17-20x4= 18 tiems damage on 15+ rolls) to maximize PA you would not want to use a ligth pick so attack penaltys would be the same for both.
The advatage as i see it to kopeshes is they are slash so your improved crit stacks well with raid thanders(SoS/CB) and vorpals(not that damage matrters much with them) axes if your a dwarf; the advatage to picks is it stacks well with the big crit range banisher, there are big crit range smiters fro both, but most other pirce weaposn are light and work poorly with PA.

I think the damage out put on dule pick or kopeshes well build still maxing str and all would compare very well with even SoS, though mroe focused damage mroe on teh primary target though a little less over all as thouse glancing blows do add up very fast.

AS mob HP goes up DPS becomes less important and vorpal beacomes a better option and TWF is hands down the wat to go fro vorpal ro other effect weapons, and a well build TWF barb could be great at DPS and efect weapons, though VERY expensiuve to equip. Based on how the game is progressing I'm findign TWF to be becooming the better option more and more, but only time will tell if this continues.

Blazer
08-17-2007, 03:18 PM
AS mob HP goes up DPS becomes less important and vorpal beacomes a better option...

DPS is always important.

Since the sever merge, I've run in a number of pugs on Khyber and have met many melee who exclusively wield a vorpal as their "DPS" weapon. So far, I am unimpressed, as my elven fighter/paladin has always won the kill count (for whatever that's worth) against these players. As the game moves along, I'm pretty confident we'll see more mobs that are immune to vorpal - a la the Giants in the Tor - thus maintaining a need for DPS.

In summary, DPS is always important. ;)

Tavok
08-17-2007, 04:02 PM
Meh I got a max out 2 handed fighting barbarian I been playing for a long time. Personally I find maxing out con over-rated. I started with a 14 con and hp never been a problem for me.

My starting stats was 18,14, 14. This was a 28 point build. With a 32 point build you could simply up the dex by 2 and take a +1 dex tome and you already got the 17 rq. My build was human if you dwarf your con would be starting at 16. No reason you can’t max out str on a twf if you wanted.

Also my starting base 14con barbarian fully boosted can still hit 40con……but generally am running around with 32/36 con which works fine. Maxing out con would of meant an extra 28hp with current level cap or 40hp at level 20. Not that huge of deal.

Reaching 17dex dont come at that high of cost if that the direction you want to take your build.

Just so you know... theres a bit of a difference between TWF and THF. :D

Tavok
08-17-2007, 04:02 PM
This is an observation to all of the TWF barbarian builds I'm seeing. Isn't a bit counter-productive to have a TWF barbarian? Seems that with the 17 dex you need to spend to make it worthwhile, It might be a better use of points to max out con and str since you'll be getting hit every time anyway...Am I missing something? I realize I'll get all of the "Don't pigeon-hole a class, there can be different ways to build a character blah blah," but that's not what this is about. Reguardless, there are builds that are more effective and focus on a classes strengths instead of trying to be quirky. Just seems to me that a TWF doesn't build on a barbaian's strengths.

Not that difficult. Look at Dwarf. Assume +1 Dex tome. 18/16/16 Starting stats, so your gonna have 28 less HP (and 12 seconds less rage) than a 18/8/20 Dwarf, whats the issue, plus you get a little bit of AC (40+). You get more attacks with TWF and thus, more damage. Plus, as others have mentioned Wounding/Puncturing Rapiers with 13-20 crit range is hard to beat :P

Dkmafia
08-17-2007, 06:14 PM
There was this paly I always used to just end up in groups with.. Good guy, good player. We ran through everything and to be honest, I just assumed he was an old timer elite player with a laid back attitude. When in fact, I found out he was fairly new and had relatively **** gear (from my standpoint).

Point:

Tactics and group dynamics > SoS - Two badly built built, well played chars are still better then one super twinky.

Play what you want, just play it smart. Only stereotype I am noticing of DPS classes is that they get addicted to the numbers. I'll admit I have been guilty of this in the past also. But if I EVER saw a barb sunder something - omg - Or use a icyburst of destruction instead of an icy of PG, or anything else that involved doing REAL DPS (meaning you cannot out damage a group) I think I would #$#% myself.

mgoldb2
08-17-2007, 07:37 PM
Just so you know... theres a bit of a difference between TWF and THF.

I know, I guess I did not make my point very clear. My point was that I could of turn my THF build stats into a twf build with no change to stats other then going from 28 point to 32 point build.

Therefore you are not sacrificing that much by meeting the 17 dex req in order to build a twf instead of a thf.

Missing_Minds
08-17-2007, 10:28 PM
Op, most see barbs as one thing. muscle bound idiots who can dish damage and drink ale.

Well... depending on the player, a twf can out do any thf against a single target. If your goal is to get all the agro on you and pray that a cleric can keep you up right, by all means, go for the thf.

If you want to dominate mobs one at a time, twf is the way to go. With my barb, I'm often told in the scale runs to go work on the giant, and every one else save a healer for me) goes to work on a dragon. Normally I'll have the giant pretty much killed before the dragon is down to 1/3 of its health.

But above all, gear and play ability is what makes a truely great character own the game.

Tallyn
08-17-2007, 11:27 PM
If you want to dominate mobs one at a time, twf is the way to go. With my barb, I'm often told in the scale runs to go work on the giant, and every one else save a healer for me) goes to work on a dragon. Normally I'll have the giant pretty much killed before the dragon is down to 1/3 of its health.

I've seen two handed Barbarians do the same thing as you save above.

Casta
08-18-2007, 09:41 AM
AS mob HP goes up DPS becomes less important and vorpal beacomes a better option

Dps will always be important. Most named mobs can not be vorpaled and I think killing a mob in 2-5 hits is better then killing 1 every 20 hits.



If you want to dominate mobs one at a time, twf is the way to go. With my barb, I'm often told in the scale runs to go work on the giant, and every one else save a healer for me) goes to work on a dragon. Normally I'll have the giant pretty much killed before the dragon is down to 1/3 of its health.


I have done this with a thf barb, and it can be done by a good caster to.

Maldini
08-18-2007, 05:55 PM
I know, I guess I did not make my point very clear. My point was that I could of turn my THF build stats into a twf build with no change to stats other then going from 28 point to 32 point build.

Therefore you are not sacrificing that much by meeting the 17 dex req in order to build a twf instead of a thf.

You're right. On a 32 Point Human, I would go 18 14 16 for a THF. You could go 18 16 14 and eat a +1 Dex Tome. Boom, you're all done without sacrificing strength and only 6 seconds on your rages and 14 HP.

Maldini
08-18-2007, 05:56 PM
Well, from what you've written here, talking about "getting hit every time anyway", it seems you believe the TWF barbs are investing in DEX to boost their AC. All the TWF barbs I've seen are doing it to gain GTWF and dual wield picks. With Imp. Crit. Pierce and the Crit Rage II, they are looking at 17-20/x4 with 7 attacks/round.

I'm terrible at crunching numbers, so I'm not here to say that 17-20/x4 with 7 attacks is better than, equal to, or less than a 13-20/x3 (SOS) or 17-20/x3 (Greataxe) at 4 attacks/round for a THF barb. Just saying that's probably their thinking. X4 crits on a barb must be huge with PA running.

EDIT: I see Sigtrent pretty much said the same thing I did. Oh well, that's what I get for typing too slow.

I was running around with a heavy pick in Gianthold the other day, and the crits without bard buffs were around the 130's plus special effects. I also don't have a seeker item or the Madstone boots, and I was using a +3 Axiomatic Burst Heavy Pick, which is nice on a x4 weapon (extra 5d6 damage on top of the normal 2d6). Get a Axiomatic Burst heavy pick of Maiming and now you're doing 10d6 damage on a crit.

Heavy Picks on a barb are probably the best single-handed weapons.

Blazer
08-18-2007, 07:30 PM
I was running around with a heavy pick in Gianthold the other day, and the crits without bard buffs were around the 130's plus special effects. I also don't have a seeker item or the Madstone boots, and I was using a +3 Axiomatic Burst Heavy Pick, which is nice on a x4 weapon (extra 5d6 damage on top of the normal 2d6). Get a Axiomatic Burst heavy pick of Maiming and now you're doing 10d6 damage on a crit.

Heavy Picks on a barb are probably the best single-handed weapons.

TWF dwarven barb in my guild dual wields picks. I believe he's got a pair of anarchic burst picks for fighting the Reaver. The chunks of red that come off the SRs lifebar are just silly when he crits.

Shade
08-18-2007, 08:25 PM
Heavy Picks on a barb are probably the best single-handed weapons.

Yep..

Tho if you dont have a bloodstone and u got the bereavement its a fair bit better. That thing can crit over 160.

If your dwarf with axe dmg like me, even more so.

Desteria
08-20-2007, 03:10 PM
Normally I'll have the giant pretty much killed before the dragon is down to 1/3 of its health.


You need a good sorc with ya then ;) white dragon meet EMP&Max fier spells...

Actuly this is not uncommon even with some great DPS fighters on the dragon becasue all fo the dragons ahev WAY mor HP then the giant, this is easly observable but hititng them with spelsl that do sinilar damage a big crit scorchign ray you cna see the giant life drop down the dargons barly dent in general, white oviously take a LOT more damaeg from fier and the white giant tends to have fire resist(i think it;s bene a whiel since i ran my sorc in there).
Also in white dragon you get frozen, and attacks stops if your totaly frozen, thus makign it harder to keep up dps.

Beherit_Baphomar
08-25-2007, 09:20 AM
BAM! BAM! BAM! GOTTA SMASH! GOTTA CRIT FOR 461!!

SMASH!SMASH! CRIT CRIT SMASHSMSAMASMASDMASMSMAHASRUQWOSJSMSMASH
CRIT!

Barbarian like to crit!

Please refrain from pigeonholing all barbarians into the same mindframe. You're making me feel like the Gieco caveman.

My barbarian started with 16 INT and then I used a +2 INT tome to raise that to 18. Oh how I love thee enhancement points.

Seriously though, why would I want my barbarian to do anything BUT crit for 461?? What good would I be with 150 hps, no ac and raging to a 12 str?

Nah, I'll stick with leading the killcounts thank you very much.

Shrazkil
08-25-2007, 12:01 PM
This is an observation to all of the TWF barbarian builds I'm seeing. Isn't a bit counter-productive to have a TWF barbarian? Seems that with the 17 dex you need to spend to make it worthwhile, It might be a better use of points to max out con and str since you'll be getting hit every time anyway...Am I missing something? I realize I'll get all of the "Don't pigeon-hole a class, there can be different ways to build a character blah blah," but that's not what this is about. Reguardless, there are builds that are more effective and focus on a classes strengths instead of trying to be quirky. Just seems to me that a TWF doesn't build on a barbaian's strengths.
There is one primary reason to go TWF on a traditional strength barb. Stunning Blow. Stunning blow outdamages EVERY THF BARB. Sorry , SoS cannot keep up with a stunned mob getting crit every hit by a bursting khopesh or heavy pick. As for red named, you just pull out the SoS, having 17 dex doesnt prevent you from having max strength.

mgoldb2
08-25-2007, 12:35 PM
There is one primary reason to go TWF on a traditional strength barb. Stunning Blow. Stunning blow outdamages EVERY THF BARB. Sorry , SoS cannot keep up with a stunned mob getting crit every hit by a bursting khopesh or heavy pick. As for red named, you just pull out the SoS, having 17 dex doesnt prevent you from having max strength.


Arguing what does more damage while something stunning blow a waste of time. I use stunning blow all the time with SoS. If an enemy stun he as good as dead whether you using a 2 handed weapon or a twf.

Only thing that might have enough hp to survive a stunning blow is a raid boss but you cant stun them anyway.

So saying you do more damage after you stunning blow something? My reply is so what? He not living long either way.

Shrazkil
08-25-2007, 12:38 PM
Arguing what does more damage while something stunning blow a waste of time. I use stunning blow all the time with SoS. If an enemy stun he as good as dead whether you using a 2 handed weapon or a twf.

Only thing that might have enough hp to survive a stunning blow is a raid boss but you cant stun them anyway.

So saying you do more damage after you stunning blow something? My reply is so what? He not living long either way.

Yes this is true, but using an SoS and stunning blow, and using a weighted 10 offhand is quite different. Stuns land 50% more often.

As for more damage, its easy to calculate, the stunned mob dies MUCH FASTER ( and with little to no healing needed) , and you can move on to another mob, while the 2 hander user must finish his mob.

mgoldb2
08-25-2007, 12:45 PM
Yes this is true, but using an SoS and stunning blow, and using a weighted 10 offhand is quite different. Stuns land 50% more often.

As for more damage, its easy to calculate, the stunned mob dies MUCH FASTER ( and with little to no healing needed) , and you can move on to another mob, while the 2 hander user must finish his mob.

I don’t thing it possible to die that much quicker 180+ damage a swing with SoS. So when you say much quicker you mean 1 extra second if even?

Second the cool down is long on Stunning blow. I usually stunning blow something kill it then kill 2-3 more things before the stunning blow timer is reset.

Shrazkil
08-25-2007, 09:24 PM
I don’t thing it possible to die that much quicker 180+ damage a swing with SoS. So when you say much quicker you mean 1 extra second if even?

Second the cool down is long on Stunning blow. I usually stunning blow something kill it then kill 2-3 more things before the stunning blow timer is reset.

180 damage a swing!!! wow you crit every swing?

Cooldown may be so, but still 5% chance another goes off. If you are talking elite content, a stunner will kill as much as 10 seconds faster on a decent Hp mob. Giving a decent chance for another stun to go off, or for a couple regular crits with heavy pick or khopesh , which can be quite substantial.

mgoldb2
08-26-2007, 12:58 AM
180 damage a swing!!! wow you crit every swing?

Maybe we had a misunderstanding. I thought you said you killed much quicker once someone stunned. Once someone stunned it auto crit so yes 180+ damge every swing.

If you talking when they not stunn it 180+ damage 13-20 and an extra 20+ damage every first and fourth attack crit or no crit. On none crits it more like ~55.

And I cant thing of many things that not red/purple name that take more then 10 secounds to kill.

Shrazkil
08-26-2007, 01:21 PM
Maybe we had a misunderstanding. I thought you said you killed much quicker once someone stunned. Once someone stunned it auto crit so yes 180+ damge every swing.

If you talking when they not stunn it 180+ damage 13-20 and an extra 20+ damage every first and fourth attack crit or no crit. On none crits it more like ~55.

And I cant thing of many things that not red/purple name that take more then 10 secounds to kill.

I was compairing 2 barb's each with their own set of mobs.

Now that i give it some thought, you are right, i probably misjudged time quite a bit, probably closer to 4-5 seconds max.

mgoldb2
08-26-2007, 03:21 PM
I was compairing 2 barb's each with their own set of mobs.

Now that i give it some thought, you are right, i probably misjudged time quite a bit, probably closer to 4-5 seconds max.

Yeah 4-5 seconds properly about right if you comparing stunn and not stunn creature even throe I thing over time it even outs because of cool downs.

I got nothing against TWF barbs. They can make great builds. I just did not thing stunning blow should be the deciding factor which way to go when planning your build between THF and TWF.

nbhs275
08-26-2007, 07:42 PM
Dps will always be important. Most named mobs can not be vorpaled and I think killing a mob in 2-5 hits is better then killing 1 every 20 hits.



I have done this with a thf barb, and it can be done by a good caster to.

I do that on my paladin, but i dont need a healer. I've actually had to put a shield on and wait for them to finish :p

Draclaud
08-28-2007, 01:43 PM
Why do folks insist on starting threads that are nothing but an attack on how people want to play the game? I see this all the time in regards to the builds folks play.

Heres an idea....

Play your own build the way you want to play, and let other folks play their builds the way they want to play.

How is anyone effected if joe barbarian like to dual weild Rapiers, Or Kopeshes for that matter, instead of swinging a greatsword?

Never attacked anyones play style. The discussion was meant to discuss weather or not twf was not or was a better min/max of a barbs inherant talents. Get a grip fella. Some one looking to be offended won't have to look very hard.

Strakeln
08-28-2007, 02:25 PM
I look at it this way:

When my sorc holds something, he whips out a wounding of puncturing heavy pick. It takes 3-6 swings to kill most anything, since every hit is a crit.

When my barbarian decides he doesn't like something, he whips out his whomping stick and kills most anything in 1-4 hits.

The idea that a stat-damaging barbarian could kill something faster than the standard ole THF barb with SoS doesn't make sense to me. I think Shade summed it up quite nicely in the 2nd or 3rd post of the thread.

LogannX
08-28-2007, 04:33 PM
TWF elven barbarian is fun as hell, does enough damage for me and it's got way more style. If you're the kind of person to list your combat numbers in your bio...well don't do it. If you like shredding things and looking good while you enjoy yourself ...do it.