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Guevara1
08-16-2007, 10:43 AM
Suppose a 14 level wizard is wielding a penetration V item. If that wizard heightens a 4th level spell to 7th - does that wizard get the bonus from the penetration item?

Mad_Bombardier
08-16-2007, 11:05 AM
Interesting question! In PnP, I'd guess no it wouldn't work (someone will no doubtedly correct me ;)). But, I don't think they coded the spell level increase into into DDO. It's still a level 4 spell just with Heightened DC and SP cost.

Vinos
08-16-2007, 12:09 PM
In DDO spell pen and heighten are 2 different things. spell level has nothing to do with spell pen. Spell pen is your caster level plus any item,enh, or feats that improve spell pen. Heighten affects your spell DC. DC is determined by spell level, focus items, focus feats, and INT modifier. A level 14 caster who used heighten on a PK would effectivly have the DC increased by 3(4th level spell is now a 7th level spell for DC checks)

MrWizard
08-16-2007, 12:48 PM
I do not know...and nor do I know how to check that out either...

Basically heighten should treat it as a higher level spell....

So the spell pen V item should not work I guess if heightened...although perhaps it is..

I guess really watching your combat log may help if you know what to look for.
I would cast on something heightened without the item and then with the item and see what happens to your modifier in the combat log.

Please post if anyone has done this...

Damn good question though.

Guevara1
08-16-2007, 01:06 PM
Using your example, would a greater spell penetration "V" item work while heightened?

Vinos
08-16-2007, 01:55 PM
Using your example, would a greater spell penetration "V" item work while heightened?

Sure but heighten has no effect on spell penetration. Any level 5 spell or lower will have greater spell pen(+3 i think) with that item equipped. Heighten affect the DC of a spell. DC is affected by the actual level of the spell. Spell Penetration is used using caster level and heighten doesn't affect caster level.

Guevara1
08-16-2007, 02:02 PM
Heighten would raise the DC of the 4th level spell to the DC of a 7th level spell, but it does not actually raise the spell level to a 7th level?

Mad_Bombardier
08-16-2007, 02:17 PM
Heighten would raise the DC of the 4th level spell to the DC of a 7th level spell, but it does not actually raise the spell level to a 7th level?That was my supposition, yes.

Vinos
08-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Heighten would raise the DC of the 4th level spell to the DC of a 7th level spell, but it does not actually raise the spell level to a 7th level?

If you are asking if your spell pen V item will work on a 4th level spell with heighten on as a 14th level caster then yes it will.

Locathus
08-17-2007, 06:01 AM
Just to clarify (I hope):

In Pen and Paper, the Heighten spell actually raises the level of the spell you are casting. For example, a Fireball that is Heightened to level 6 is now for all intents and purposes a level 6 spell. This makes the DC higher, but also allows it to bypass other restrictions (like a Globe of Invulnerability which protects someone from low level spells).

In DDO, I have never seen this kind of effect from Heighten. For example, casting a Heightened Scorching Ray on something with the Mantle of Invulnerability still does not work. So, while I have not personally tested this, your Greater Spell Pen V item should work on any spell that is listed as a level 5 or lower spell, regardless of wheter you Heighten it or not. If you need confirmation, you can always try it out in the PvP area against anyone who has SR - just look at the plus on the roll and see if it changes when you equip the item.

Good luck!

.

Vinos
08-17-2007, 08:08 AM
Just to clarify (I hope):

In Pen and Paper, the Heighten spell actually raises the level of the spell you are casting. For example, a Fireball that is Heightened to level 6 is now for all intents and purposes a level 6 spell. This makes the DC higher, but also allows it to bypass other restrictions (like a Globe of Invulnerability which protects someone from low level spells).

In DDO, I have never seen this kind of effect from Heighten. For example, casting a Heightened Scorching Ray on something with the Mantle of Invulnerability still does not work. So, while I have not personally tested this, your Greater Spell Pen V item should work on any spell that is listed as a level 5 or lower spell, regardless of wheter you Heighten it or not. If you need confirmation, you can always try it out in the PvP area against anyone who has SR - just look at the plus on the roll and see if it changes when you equip the item.

Good luck!

.

Heighten doesn't "work" on scorching ray becuase it has no save. In DDO all heighten does is increase the DC in the case of a saving throw for a spell. It has no effect on damage or duration(caster level affects that).

Locathus
08-18-2007, 06:00 AM
Heighten doesn't "work" on scorching ray becuase it has no save. In DDO all heighten does is increase the DC in the case of a saving throw for a spell. It has no effect on damage or duration(caster level affects that).

I think that was the point I was trying to make - PnP Heighten is not the same as DOO Heighten.

.