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Cnickel
08-16-2007, 08:52 AM
When grouping, I have issues deciding when to use the song fascinate and when to just fight it out with a large group of mobs. I have had pretty limited luck getting mobs fascinated, with the song fascinate, when there is a large pull.

If someone pulls a large number of mobs is it worth it to start singing fascinate to CC or is it too late at that point? If I am singing and mobs continue to show up, can they get fascinated as well, or do all the mobs I am trying to CC have to be in the vicinity when I start my song? Do you have to stand still while you are singing to get it to work well? I don't usually equip a perform item, does this help significantly? Does an enchantment focus item help with the roll mechanics as well?

I am not sure if the song fascinate mechanics are just not that effective, or if I am not using it correctly. I was hoping that the song would be more effective for CC than the spell, making bards more effective for CC.

I could just suck :eek:

Thanks for the help.

Nickyl lvl 14 Cleric
Nyckail lvl 9 Fighter
Nyckial lvl 7 Bard

WolfSpirit
08-16-2007, 08:57 AM
When grouping, I have issues deciding when to use the song fascinate and when to just fight.

First off, I always facinate from sneak mode. Could be my luck, but it keeps the monster off me for a couple of seconds longer. And with facinate, seconds count!
I like to use it when I somehow get ahead of the party and come upon a crowd.
But the best is when the room is suddenly filled with monsters, but I announce my intentions before going.
"Watch for facinated monster guys, don't set them all free!"
Mostly they will simply wack everything around anyway but...

The best time is when you know the party is struggling with each encounter (Elite runs by lower than adventure partys), because you can hault an onslaught in its tracks.
If your other CCs arn't doing the job, start singing man, you could be the hero!
:)

Spikeit
08-16-2007, 04:55 PM
When grouping, I have issues deciding when to use the song fascinate and when to just fight it out with a large group of mobs. I have had pretty limited luck getting mobs fascinated, with the song fascinate, when there is a large pull.

If someone pulls a large number of mobs is it worth it to start singing fascinate to CC or is it too late at that point? If I am singing and mobs continue to show up, can they get fascinated as well, or do all the mobs I am trying to CC have to be in the vicinity when I start my song? Do you have to stand still while you are singing to get it to work well? I don't usually equip a perform item, does this help significantly? Does an enchantment focus item help with the roll mechanics as well?


You have a lot of questions here so let me start by saying that the Fascinate Song is 'the' best CC in the game. NO EXCEPTIONS. I don't care what any wizard or sorceror claims. The folks on the boards here will back me on this I'm sure.

When to use it: Anytime you want. I find being ahead of the party is a great place to be with a PUG. You can draw the mob(s) to you and lull them to sleep. In a regular group (say a guild) you can work out tactics in advance and only Fascinate the harder or more overwhelming areas. After all if you take away all the tank/cleric fun, they won't love you as much. :) You can still use it when everything is already on top of you. The problem there is that most Tanks are swinging for their lives and don't really clue into the fact that the little musical notes are there until they have already awoken everything. You can Shout out something to the effect of "careful of fascinate!"

How to use it: Wolfspirit says he likes to be in sneak mode and I do as well sometimes. That used to be the best way to go IMO. Now that bard song will draw attention, I find that buffing myself and casting a Displacement/Haste/Rage combo will give me all the protection I need to do a 'Heard' maneuver on the mob(s). In a Heard, you are basically taking on the role of a live action target, albeit a very mobile hard to hit one. You advance into the heart of the Mob, and continue to run in a large circle while playing. At the end of the song you will end with the entire Mob fascinated and just in time for the tanks to come charging in "to save you". Stand back and watch or join in the fun, your choice.

When to sing: Timing is everything. The song takes approx. 6 seconds to complete. Somewhere around 4-5 sec. there is a very strong clear note. This is when Fascinate hits the enemy. So begin your song early, and move into the crowd. Suggest starting with some Kobolds, perhaps Kobold Island, and practice the timing.

There is no need for a perform item. Currently the perform skill is not factored into the fascinate DC. There is no DC. YET. Keep that item for future proofing.

Test, practice, enjoy. You'll be glad you did.

Mad_Bombardier
08-16-2007, 05:06 PM
Posted in the duplicate thread, so pasting it here.
If someone pulls a large number of mobs is it worth it to start singing fascinate to CC or is it too late at that point? I've seen it done best with the Bard going in first.
Start singing, run in, end song = fascinated group.

If I am singing and mobs continue to show up, can they get fascinated as well, or do all the mobs I am trying to CC have to be in the vicinity when I start my song?
Fascinate happens to all in range and the END of the song. So, yes those additional mobs will be caught too.

Do you have to stand still while you are singing to get it to work well?
Nope, you can move all you want. Moving Bard = Live Bard. You can work on timing the end of the song to standing with the largest number of mobs around you.

I don't usually equip a perform item, does this help significantly? Does an enchantment focus item help with the roll mechanics as well?
There is no roll for Fascinate. It affects all enemies in the area at the end of the song. So, no added items or feats are needed.Answers in green. :) The biggest thing is your party. Any hits break the Fascination, so wildly swinging party members may destroy your hard work. But, you can train your party to kill 1 at a time after Fascination.

Ghoste
08-16-2007, 05:18 PM
1 or 2 charms to keep agro off of you goes a long way towards surviving longer when fascinating. Of course the charmed ones will break fascinate from one or two of them, but those will be busy attacking the charmed guys anyways.

Scaramouche
08-23-2007, 03:54 AM
Just to summarize and reinforce what people said here, the two most important things I have found with fascinate are:
- Stay moving and circle the enemies to gather them into the area
- Time your fascinate to end when the enemies are grouped; don't begin it in the group

As an added note, to prevent people from immediately killing your fascinate, you'll want to get ahead. Especially in PUGs, you'll want to do a sort of kamikaze fascinate run then amaze the group that not only are the mobs all fascinated, but you're still alive!

Spikeit
08-23-2007, 11:31 AM
I think you got the jist of it.

Two things to note on moving while fascinating:

1. It's kinda like a heal spell, you can't fascinate around a corner or from behind a column. Stay in the clear and away from obstructions and all will be frozen in place.

2. Don't stop moving just because your song is ended. Inevitablely there will be one or more enemies (for some strange reason) that won't fascinate. It usually happens when you least expect it, like when it has worked perfectly 10 times in a row and you are feeling confident that you will always get them all.

3. I know I said 2, but I thought of another one. Be alert for the fact that some enemies will still (currently bugged) move around and in some cases attack you while fascinated. With notes coming outta their head, they can still move around. DON'T PANIC when this happens. They are likely still fascinated and can't hurt you, but don't take that for granted. Take these out first. Move to your next staging area and go to work.

Enjoy your bard. I know I enjoy mine.:D

Ragons
08-30-2007, 06:26 PM
The tactic that I like is usually go like this:

The group is using choke points. The casters and I drop CC spells where the tanks are going to fight. I drop back and wait for the tanks actually start fighting. Then I start playing my song of enthrallment, I jump over the front line and run to where the range fighting mobs (archers, casters, etc) are. This take the back mobs off the fighters and become easier prey (enthrallment takes -2 off the attack roll) for the fighters.

sigtrent
08-30-2007, 07:31 PM
My #1 rule with fascinate.

Don't bother using it unless the party needs you to.

It's pretty much a waste if the party can handle the monsters anyway and you will only get frustrated when they squander it. Why should they bother being carefull about your power if they don't need to be?

However, when they are struggling, and make the whole encounter a piece of cake, they will likely pay attention and play along with the divide and conquer strategy.

Worst case scenario is they all die and you fascinate the monsters, give them a few moments to consider what happened and then take their stones to the shrine... ok thats not really worst case but its fun to imagine.

Quartzite
08-30-2007, 11:24 PM
My #1 rule with fascinate.

Don't bother using it unless the party needs you to.

Totally agree with this. My Battlebard has Fascinate, but I've only used it about twice. Most people zerg same-level content even on elite without problems. My groups are happy with buffs and my 100+ Carnifex crits. I do try and use all my tools as a Bard, though. By not using Fascinate I always have a bunch of songs, spare, but it takes too long to use that it is seldom effective.

hazur
09-01-2007, 08:26 PM
Greetings,

Fascinate is the most powerful tool in our arsenal (for now). It has no DC, and with the proper enhancements it can work on constructs, and something we basically have nothing else against - undead. I guess it comes down to how you and your groups play but, I always find myself using fascinate. It allows you to bypass a lot of things, especially in GH quests. This ability is considered by many to be the most powerful crowd control ability in the game. Sorcerers and Wizards complain about it being over powered. How can you NEVER use it? I think you are underestimating its uses and value in many different situations. I think the only way I could really explain is to show you how *I* use it, maybe I have to post a video sometime...

I guess you guys never like to do solo loot runs or finish a quest in under a minute or finish a quest that usually takes a half an hour in five minutes by bypassing 3/4 of the content? Maybe stopping hordes of undead in their tracks? Solo elite quests well over your level? What more can I say? A lot of this ability's effectiveness lies in running ahead of your group (if you even bother grouping) as well. You also need to start playing the song before you actually run into the mobs. That's all about learning the timing...

I've pretty much been studying fascinate since beta on DDO and I can safely say from your posts you are underestimating a very powerful ability that will probably even be nerfed in the future. In part from this ability there are numerous loot runs and even quests you can finish by yourself. Even in groups when used properly this is a juggernaut. If your group is zerging through elite quests with ease, you obviously always get solid groups. Me on the other hand, I generally carry the groups I am in, with things like - fascinate. :P

Anyway go out there and try fascinate a bit more, there are a lot of fun tricks you can do with it!

Regards,
Booser

Nott
09-05-2007, 01:41 PM
I have a 9 bard (+1 cleric), and I haven't experimented much with fascinate yet.... can you tell me how long a mob will remain fascinated without a replay of the song? What about a mob limit.... can I fascinate everything within earshot, or is there a maximum number of mobs that can become fascinated?

The idea of entering a quest solo, training all the mobs I can into an area that I can fascinate them seems quite entertaining. I'm not sure I want to do that before I pick up disco ball though...

Schmackdown
09-05-2007, 05:22 PM
Can you tell me how long a mob will remain fascinated without a replay of the song?
Fascinate duration is based on bard level and number of Lingering Song enhancements taken. The latter may change if it is deemed a bug. Just fascinate something, look at a buff timer, wait for it to wake up and that's your duration for every mob until you change some part of the level/LS equation.

What about a mob limit.... can I fascinate everything within earshot, or is there a maximum number of mobs that can become fascinated?
Everything within earshot.

The idea of entering a quest solo, training all the mobs I can into an area that I can fascinate them seems quite entertaining. I'm not sure I want to do that before I pick up disco ball though...
Keep in mind that you will not be able to land the Freak if you are feared, held, on your back, etc. You *will* continue playing the song while you're in that state, however, so if you somehow come out of it before the song is over, there's still a chance you can land the effect.