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View Full Version : New Sorcerer Advice Requested (again)



Khurse
08-15-2007, 11:47 PM
Hi All

Realized a few things this week,
1) I'm an idiot (had a WF figter/wiz up to around 300 Favour, then deleted him without thinking about the fact that all my other characters have like 12 favour.. grrr I mean I don't really want to play a drow, but they have so many points..)

Anyway- also realized my newbie lvl 1 and 2 Sorcerers got a lot fewer requests for groups than my Fighters/Thieves/Clerics?Paladians (yes I start alot of new characters, figured I'd try everything out)

So, what I'm wondering (at very low levels) is what is the Sorcerer (or Wizs) role in the group? I assume it would be different from group to group, but I'm guessing there's a bit of learning curve - ie don't burn 10 Niacs on hte first encounter of Kobolds
As an example- in EQ Wiz tended to wait until big enemy was at about 50% health, then I'd burn it down- here there seem to be alot more little creatures than one big one, so I'm not sure if I should be dumping spellpoints on Kobolds or not..

Any quick advice anyone can give? (or really long and detailed if you really feel like typing it all out)

Also a couple of short ones-

1) How the heck do any of you survive at low levels? Or solo? I read the "take niacs and charm" bits, but really since neither effect undead or oozes I seem to have issues..

1b) Speaking of Niacs- I notice mine (with 18 CHR) and a Evoc feat focus
seems to get saved against quite a bit- I've burned 7 or 8 on a single kobold,
what am I doing wrong?

2) (And this one is less important) When does one tend to get to the places that drop these +1 tomes? Reading some of these forums it seems some people have overflowing numbers of them, the few on the market are around 500k- 1.5 mil each, should I have one by level 5? 10?
(I mean if anyone has 500k or a mil they're not doing anything with feel free to send it to Cowl on Argonnessen I'll even promise to pay you back ....
someday...

Seriously though- If I keep hacking (somewhat literally) through the beasties will my sorcerer be in demand for some PUG's later in life? ( looking at my 2 spells I get why I'm not in demand at early levels) without having all teh tomes and fancy gear?

Thanks for any advice as always

Jakylpops
08-16-2007, 01:02 AM
Shocking grasp is a much more reliable spell at first level, when all you really need to do is solo the goodblades stuff on Normal difficulty and run past the poison traps of the low road a couple times to get to level 2.

So you have to get close to your target...big deal it's going to die in one or two shots anyway and it works on almost everything.

Make a human sorcerer with 18 Cha, 14 Con, 14 Str
Maximize and Spell Focus: Enchantment
Shocking Grasp and Charm Person

Leave Maximize on...Charm kobolds and people, shock everything else...one shot should do it...beat stuff over the head with a heavy mace.

This is sorcerer soloing for dummies you should be able to easily get yourself up to level 3 in a short period of time without even grouping...if this doesn't work then you need to go play something foolproof, like a Pally or sumthin:D

Beherit_Baphomar
08-16-2007, 09:42 AM
I solo'd my sorc up to level two last night. Died once in.....I cant remember what one it was, but I died. Im halfway to level three now.

Advice from me about solo'ing is keep some heal pots around, solo AT YOUR LEVEL, play smart and slow. One encounter at a time. Solo'ing rules are the same no matter what class you play. Although solo'ing with a caster, squishie is more difficult. You just gotta be smart. Charm the kobold warrior from sneak, blast the kobold shaman with ubah magic missile.

Are you on Agro? We could party together as two sorcs with crappy spells YAY!

As for no party invites, are you requesting to join parties? Most people are stuck with the mindframe that they NEEDNEEDNEED two tank/cleric/caster/rogue/other in the group, even tho I dont see where we help the party out that much at this level. My magic missile hits for 9 damage :l AND it goes throo walls and floors \m/

At higher levels you will rule this game, without question.
Tomes drop around levels 8-10 at the earliest.
What tome do you need?

Varis
08-16-2007, 10:05 AM
niacs is not evocation, so a spell focus won't help you.

Also mind WHAT kind of kobolds you face. A scout/rogue/archer will make the save often, a warrior, sometimes, a cleric or wizard almost never.

Shocking grasp is also a great spell to have because it works against almost anything. I would even go as far as replacing magic missile with it.
Gray oozes don't split and even if you end up facing one that is immune to everything, bust out a club, go melee. Even a sorcerer can hit and kill an ooze no problem at that level.

Jakylpops
08-16-2007, 10:40 AM
Magic missile sucks, and I wouldn't even consider taking it until 3rd level when you get the 2nd missile out of it.

Niac's when far away...Shocking grasp when it gets too close.

It's usually easy enough to charm kobolds from outside agro range even without enlarge. At low levels you can usually even charm the shamans without much trouble. I usually charm the shaman then just let the rest of them tear him apart...or charm the rogues or scout since they save against Niac's more often.

While it is helpful to keep healing pots for emergencies in the middle of a fight, you can save yourself ALOT of money healing up with Cure Light Wounds wands...
Always keep UMD maxxed out, find yourself a robe of command to give yourself an extra +2...take the human skill boost.

Set up a hotbar that goes Robe of Command, Skill clickie, CLW wand and you will be able to use it with almost no failure.

NoLimHoldem
08-16-2007, 11:03 AM
1b) Speaking of Niacs- I notice mine (with 18 CHR) and a Evoc feat focus
seems to get saved against quite a bit- I've burned 7 or 8 on a single kobold,
what am I doing wrong?

You have to remember what saving throw it is and if it is 1/2 or no damage. Niacs is a reflex save for no damage. Kobolds in general have a higher dex than "normal" so they will save more often. Niacs is most usefull on giants and dragons which both usually have really low reflex saves. I never used it at low levels, but I keep it anyway.

As far as having trouble finding groups at low levels, it is true (to a point) that dungeons are easier tank heavy, but starting around 8th or so that drastically changes. There is no other class (Wizzy come close . . . mana pool) that can come close to the damage a Sorcerer can do. The same is true for low levels for the tank classes. A caster can not come close to the DPS of a fighter, mostly due to the spell pool.

I suggest you find a good group of friends that you can run with regularly. Best place for that is in a guild with a good mix of players. don't look to the uber guilds for much help, they mostly focus on end game raids, but that isn't to say they can't be good to join. When you are lvl 8+ people will be begging you to join their group especially if you get a good rep of being a uber party player (same goes for any class).

Incidentally, when any class is played "correctly" they all excel in one area and are lacking in others. This is the dynamic that makes a good balanced group essential for success in any MMO. The trick is to find what you are best at and have the most fun doing. Some prefer to blast everything, others tend to stay back and heal, some like to be in front of everything. Make the game fun for you and the parties will come!

MrWizard
08-16-2007, 01:20 PM
Hi All

Realized a few things this week,
1) I'm an idiot (had a WF figter/wiz up to around 300 Favour, then deleted him without thinking about the fact that all my other characters have like 12 favour.. grrr I mean I don't really want to play a drow, but they have so many points..)
They have extra points, but they lose 2 con....and the +2 to int and cha are balanced out by the fact you seldom would want both of them (why would you add int if you are a sorc?)

Anyway- also realized my newbie lvl 1 and 2 Sorcerers got a lot fewer requests for groups than my Fighters/Thieves/Clerics?Paladians (yes I start alot of new characters, figured I'd try everything out)
Best way is to start your own groups, and you decide the speed of it.

So, what I'm wondering (at very low levels) is what is the Sorcerer (or Wizs) role in the group? I assume it would be different from group to group, but I'm guessing there's a bit of learning curve - ie don't burn 10 Niacs on hte first encounter of Kobolds
Most low levels are humanoids, try charm person and hypnotize for first level. Let the party kill things while you completely charm/hypno the dungeons. You will survive and the cleric will love you.

As an example- in EQ Wiz tended to wait until big enemy was at about 50% health, then I'd burn it down- here there seem to be alot more little creatures than one big one, so I'm not sure if I should be dumping spellpoints on Kobolds or not..
Charm/hypno, controls them completely

Any quick advice anyone can give? (or really long and detailed if you really feel like typing it all out)
Have fun and leave parties that are full of people that do not complement your playing style (ie, bad parties). Just have fun as much as you can.

Also a couple of short ones-

1) How the heck do any of you survive at low levels? Or solo? I read the "take niacs and charm" bits, but really since neither effect undead or oozes I seem to have issues..
Undead at low levels are affected by niacs. Oozes can be charmed with a second level spell called ooze puppet. Charm person works great. Magic missile works on undead too. Don't go for quests higher than your level, waste of time and you get killed more. You can get to level 4/5 before leaving the harbor with very few repeats of any dungeon...and they are all under level 3 dngeons

1b) Speaking of Niacs- I notice mine (with 18 CHR) and a Evoc feat focus
seems to get saved against quite a bit- I've burned 7 or 8 on a single kobold,
what am I doing wrong?
I think niacs in conjuration. I would buy a wand of eagles splendor to get the +2 to your DC. (22 cha)...and use it a lot. Kobolds are humanioids, so hypno, charm work well to control them without much mana at all.

2) (And this one is less important) When does one tend to get to the places that drop these +1 tomes? Reading some of these forums it seems some people have overflowing numbers of them, the few on the market are around 500k- 1.5 mil each, should I have one by level 5? 10?
(I mean if anyone has 500k or a mil they're not doing anything with feel free to send it to Cowl on Argonnessen I'll even promise to pay you back ....
someday...
You need to get to higher level dungeons. Unless you are completely broke, you should not spend a lot of time looting optional quest chests as it just takes you longer to get to a higher level where you can get these things. Why take ten minutes extra in a second level dungeon for a 2nd level chest when you can bang out Osgoods basement on norm/hard/elite in the same time and get about 4500 xp and get closer to a level...is the 100gp and the +1 docent worth the time?

Seriously though- If I keep hacking (somewhat literally) through the beasties will my sorcerer be in demand for some PUG's later in life? ( looking at my 2 spells I get why I'm not in demand at early levels) without having all teh tomes and fancy gear?
Sounds like you are still first level and only have two spells. I highly suggest charm person and either hypno or magic missile/niacs. One damage and one crowd control. And level up. Sorcs take a while to build spells, just keep chugging.

Thanks for any advice as always
Try to find groups that are full of newer people like you so you can enjoy the dungeon and not just 'run through things. In your case I would do the extras and search dungeons. It will help you build your strategies for play. I suggest a wizard instead of a sorc since you can easily change out spells as you go along easily. Start groups using the LFM thing...and say You are a new player and want to go slow and have fun. This will help you get older players who want to help and newer players who want to explore. If you run with elite players they will leave you in the dust and make the experience not as good as you would want.
Have fun.

Hope this helps.

Gaermain
08-16-2007, 02:40 PM
Seriously though- If I keep hacking (somewhat literally) through the beasties will my sorcerer be in demand for some PUG's later in life? ( looking at my 2 spells I get why I'm not in demand at early levels) without having all teh tomes and fancy gear?



Unfortunately, the lower levels can be a tad rough. There were more times than one when I felt slightly embarassed hanging out as my party swept through a quest. I kind of felt like a bit of a leech at times. No good buff spells, no huge damage spells, sort of sucked.

*peeew* *peeew* <--- the sound of your puny MM.

I've been killed by plenty of ooze =)

All of the above advice about spells and how to get through the lower levels is solid. Don't forget, you can swap out spells now - so don't fear taking a spell just for the lower levels. You can swap it out later.

Hang in there, once you get into the higher levels the tables turn - people will be struggling to keep up with you.

It will start around the STK range, when you get requests to 'help' with part three...the tomes and fancy gear will come in time, so don't sweat it too much.

Best of luck!

Aspenor
08-16-2007, 06:10 PM
if you're trying to solo, charm. dont kill everything. it's probably a playstyle issue.

amysrevenge
08-17-2007, 02:00 PM
With patience and luck, you shuld be able to solo almost every quest in the Harbor (Waterworks included) at level 2. Get used to having a horde of pink hats surrounding you.

You won't be level 2 for long. The pink hats will kill all the mobs for you. With my sorc, it isn't uncommon to open the quest log and see:

Total Monsters Killed: 35
Glenelvis: 2
Misadventure: 25

(Pink hats that die are counted under the top total, but are not counted anywhere else; mobs that your pink hats kill are filed under Misadventure. The two kills for me would be the oozes lol)

And, as someone else said, get your hands on wands of Eagle's Splendor as soon as you can afford them. Pop one on before you go to cast spells with saves (Charm yes, Niac's yes, Magic Missile no) and get a boost to your DCs.

Once you hit about level 5-6 it gets tough again - you start fighting more and more mobs that Charm Person doesn't work on. That's where I am with mine right now. I'm trying to slog it out to level 8, where I get Firewall. But I can definitely nuke - even a puny Burning Hands with Sup Pot and Empower and maxed out Fire enhancements can roast away mobs in a doorway for 50+ per cast.

Mike

Blind_Skwerl
08-18-2007, 12:47 AM
Soloing with a sorcerer is alot easier when you charm everything. Don't fight everything, make them fight each other!

Ishturi
08-21-2007, 07:54 AM
at low levels, burning hands = your best friend. Shocking grasp = his brother.

For oozes, RUN and cast magic missile at them. to round off your selection of first level spells, Niac's/Charm Person.

at 6th level or so you can swap burning hands out... 5d4 won't kill most stuff out there, and if you opted for charm person instead of Niac's, 6th level is perfect to pick it up.

Also, Niac's is a CONJURATION spell, not EVOCATION. The feat... it does nothing! (neither do the goggles) :p

Dragonmaster_Nathan
04-03-2010, 09:01 PM
at low levels, burning hands = your best friend. Shocking grasp = his brother.

For oozes, RUN and cast magic missile at them. to round off your selection of first level spells, Niac's/Charm Person.

at 6th level or so you can swap burning hands out... 5d4 won't kill most stuff out there, and if you opted for charm person instead of Niac's, 6th level is perfect to pick it up.

Also, Niac's is a CONJURATION spell, not EVOCATION. The feat... it does nothing! (neither do the goggles) :p

Lol Twinkie...anyways ill try the burning hands,shocking grasps and magic missle when I solo Korthos Village or something XD.TY!!

Limey
04-04-2010, 05:40 PM
I'm suprised nobody has mentioned my two favorite low level spells:Web and Scorching Ray. Very spell point efficient.

ProdigalGuru
04-04-2010, 06:17 PM
You should not be accepting random invites to parties, you should be requesting to join via the Social Panel.
Groups that randomly invite people blindly are both rude and noobish.
You should not base any judgments on this aspect of your play.

ddoer
04-05-2010, 09:09 AM
So, what I'm wondering (at very low levels) is what is the Sorcerer (or Wizs) role in the group? I assume it would be different from group to group, but I'm guessing there's a bit of learning curve - ie don't burn 10 Niacs on hte first encounter of Kobolds
As an example- in EQ Wiz tended to wait until big enemy was at about 50% health, then I'd burn it down- here there seem to be alot more little creatures than one big one, so I'm not sure if I should be dumping spellpoints on Kobolds or not..

Any quick advice anyone can give? (or really long and detailed if you really feel like typing it all out)

...

1b) Speaking of Niacs- I notice mine (with 18 CHR) and a Evoc feat focus
seems to get saved against quite a bit- I've burned 7 or 8 on a single kobold,
what am I doing wrong?



I think a Sorc is suppose to do DPS, but for sure different sorc could have different playing style.

For new player, i would suggest you to save your mana to nuke end boss, and spend more time to watch the fight, focus on crowd control, (use Web if you don't plan to take other CC spells) and involve in dealing damage only when your melees are taking too much damage. when you are familiar with the quests and know when you'll get the next rest shrine, you could unload your mana to do nuking more frequently.

Niac is not an easy to use spell. It's all about your spell DC vs mobs' saving throw. If a mob makes a save, it takes no damage. (unlike Scorching Ray which is the opposite, there is no saving and the mob always get hit) Vets who use Niac generally do the following:

Max Cha, incl. using +1 cha at L3
Double focus in Conjuration
Use spell focus: conjuration item from L4 (non RR)
Eagle's Splendor
Use heighten


Even if you have the maximum conjuration DC, you still have to select target carefully, e.g. you would want to shoot at enemy caster/figher/barb rather than rog/ranger. And you also need to do targeting carefully. (most ray spells are hard to target)

To be able to land your spell is one thing, another equally important thing is to maximize your spell damage. Every caster should maximize their fire/cold enhancement. And in combat, you should use Superior Freeze I clickie/pots (pots available in House P) and hold the best ice lore item of your level. When you are in L1-4 and you r not a WF, you should wear Apprentice Robe.

Niac provides the best damage per spell point but is hard to use. If you want easier option, use Shocking Grasp and Scorching Ray instead. There is nothing wrong to use any of these spells. Some casters simply don't do any damage so you shouldn't be blamed for dealing less than the maximize damage you could possibly deal.




Also a couple of short ones-

1) How the heck do any of you survive at low levels? Or solo? I read the "take niacs and charm" bits, but really since neither effect undead or oozes I seem to have issues..

...



bring Curse Serious Wound pots. This is the single most important advice I could give. Almost any toon could be highly survivable in low level if they have a stack of CSW pots. don't just standing there wait for a healer. this assume you have a reasonable amount of HP and fortification.

make your spell most effective. It generally mean you should invest every ability and enhancement points possible in Cha to make it even and use the best Cha gear and/or using Eagle's Splendor, and use a school focus weapon (start at L4). When your spell can land, your party is more likely to run a quest smoothly. Spell focus feat is a bonus but not mandatory. (i personally don't recommend ppl to take spell focus except conjuration for low level that should be swapped out)

get the highest possible HP. i.e. put every spare ability point you can in Con, use +HP items (i.e. false life in low level), +con gear, by L7 you could have a toughness feat and invest 2 tiers of enhancement to get around 30HP.

get the best fortification item. at 1, you could use light fortification; at L4, you could use moderate. (as I use Apprentice Robe instead, I will use moderate fort robe only from L5) at L8, you could use heavy fort. If you can't afford a heavy fort robe, you should get a Nightforge Gorget (min lv 9) or Minos Legos (min lv 11).

manage your aggro. if you do AoE damage, you could expect the mobs will chase you. so you have to use it wisely. The easiest way to nuke without getting kill are:

max ur spell damage and when u cast a spell, the mobs should be killed by you. Niac could one-shoot most mobs, and if you do another spell, just cycle with at least 2 damage spells and if the first one can't kill a mob, fire the 2nd.
if you can't do 1, then let the melees grab aggro, and fire your spells at mobs that is being hit by the melee.




2) (And this one is less important) When does one tend to get to the places that drop these +1 tomes? Reading some of these forums it seems some people have overflowing numbers of them, the few on the market are around 500k- 1.5 mil each, should I have one by level 5? 10?
(I mean if anyone has 500k or a mil they're not doing anything with feel free to send it to Cowl on Argonnessen I'll even promise to pay you back ....
someday...

Seriously though- If I keep hacking (somewhat literally) through the beasties will my sorcerer be in demand for some PUG's later in life? ( looking at my 2 spells I get why I'm not in demand at early levels) without having all teh tomes and fancy gear?

Thanks for any advice as always

+1 tome is random. when you get 1750 favor, you'll get a +2 tome of your choice. I'm on argo too and the AH price isn't that high as i remember. It should cost you something like 150-300k gp for +1 tome. Actually, +1 tome is not very useful to many ppl as they don't stack with +2 tome.

TiberiusofTyr
04-06-2010, 10:49 AM
Arise!