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Aspenor
08-14-2007, 08:20 AM
Part III: The Nuker will be coming soon. The build is radically different from the previous two.

*edit* /shakes fist STUPID FORUMS. Ninja'd my buildz!!

Aspenor
08-14-2007, 08:21 AM
Aspenor's Guide to Rolling and Building a Sorceror pt II

First of all, you have to know what you want from your sorceror. Do you want to be a crowd control master? Do you want to be an instant-death killing machine? Or maybe you prefer direct damage/nuking....All of these are viable options. Each type will have different feats, spells, and different enhancement focus.

Firstly, lets start with stats. DDO has peculiar rules regarding caster classes, which differ greatly from PnP. Firstly, and most notably, IMHO at end-game the only stats that matter are your primary casting stat (Charisma, in the case of sorcerors), and your constitution score (governs your hit points). Keep in mind that sorcerors only get 2 skill points + INT modifier per level. Concentration is of utmost importance, because you want your spells to go off when you cast them, you don't want some monster hitting you to stop it. UMD is a common favorite, and a high level sorceror can use raise dead scrolls if he/she is properly equipped. Maxxing both these skills will take ALL your base skill points.

It is thus my recommendation to start all sorcerors with enough intelligence to gain 3 skill points per level. My three skills I chose were concentration, UMD, and jump. Jump is for evasive maneuvering, and is incredibly useful for avoiding damage. YOU WILL NOT want to stand still when mobs attack you.
PS RE: SKILLS--You may choose to take diplomacy instead of jump. Diplomacy ROCKS for a sorceror, and I will get around to explaining that later.

My recommended Starting stats, drow sorceror
STR-8
DEX-10
CON-14
INT-12
WIS-8
CHA-20

Skill points spent AT EVERY LEVEL in UMD, jump, and concentration. (PS-OR DIPLOMACY INSTEAD OF JUMP)

Feats (in Order): (Drow)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell Penetration
Spell Focus: Necromancy
Greater Spell Penetration

Feats (in Order): (Human)
Maximize
Extend
Heighten
Spell Penetration
Spell Focus: Necromancy
Greater Spell Penetration
Empower (or SF: UMD, or another spell focus I.E. illusion or abjuration)

Feats--You sacrifice a direct damage feat (empower) for added hitting power for your instant kill spells.

Spell choices: 1st level
Charm Person, Niacs
At first level you will want to be able to short-man quests, and you will want to be able to take control of the baddies to fight for you. Charm Person works on kobolds and hobgoblins, the common enemies in the early game. Niacs is for damage output. It is the highest damage spell for first level available, and it works well on early mobs, especially casters. A sorceror should remember melee mobs have low will, and caster mobs have low dex, so charm the fighting types
and kill the caster types.

Spell Choice: 2nd level
Hypnotism
Will save spell, useful for making groups of mobs stand still. A sorceror can spam cast 2-3 hypnotisms and render entire crowds immobile. I recommend taking this at 2nd level to help control crowds.
Alternative: Burning hands
Burning hands is a good low level damage spell for groups of monsters, and taking burning hands at second level also allows the sorceror to be more effective against undead, since ice does not work on skeletons.

Spell Choice: 3rd Level
Burning Hands
See above, alternative spell is hypnotism.

Spell Choice: 4th level
Web or Resist Energy
Web is the fundamental crowd control spell in the game. Learn it, use it, and master it. Being able to use this spell effectively will help you use others later down the line. Resist energy is a MUST HAVE for a sorceror. Taking this spell early also makes your sorceror more able to short-man quests for quicker experience. You can make due with your first level spells for CC and damage.

Spell Choice: 5th Level
Web or Resist Energy
Whichever one is not chosen at 4th, take it at 5th.

Spell Chice: 6th Level
Haste
Everybody loves haste. You know you can't live without it. At low levels there is nothing like hasting a fighter.

Now's when it gets hairy. Around 6th level, you no longer need some early spells, and you are in need of different spells for the quests you are in.
For example, Stormcleave is a common 6-8 experience quest, and the giant at the end canot be harmed by Niac's. However, crowd control is necessary for this quest, and it would be awful tough to give up one of your CC spells. At 6th level I recommend dropping burning hands for magic missle, simply for use in killing the giant. If you feel you can count
on your fighters to do this, this change may not be necessary.
Spell Swap- Burning Hands for Magic Missile

Spell Choice: 7th Level
2nd Level - Blur
3rd Level - Fireball
Blur will be your first defensive buff. KEEP YOURSELF BLURRED. You have no AC. Damage avoidance is your only way to survive. Fireball replaces burning hands as your AoE killer.

Recommended spell swap at 7th level:
Niac's for Jump
Niacs is no longer your primary killing spell. Fireball is a reflex save, and performs just as well as Niacs but AoE. Jump is necessary for evasive maneuvering.
Jump is a must-have for a 14th level caster.

Spell Choice: 8th level
Phantasmal Killer - First instant-kill spell. Learn to love it. Dual fortitude & will save for the kill.

Spell Choices: 9th level
W))T!! We get 3 spells this level!
2nd Level - Scorching Ray
3rd Level - Displacement
4th Level - Wall of Fire
Displacement is a MUST HAVE for a sorceror. 50% miss chance will save your tail ALOT. Use this spell, and use it often when you get aggro.
Scorching ray - staple high level damage spell. At low levels it is less useful, due to 1 ray only. It now has 2.
Wall of Fire - Staple damage spell. Learn to love it. You'll be jumping around in it like a jackrabbit on crack.

Spell Choices: 10th level
5th level - Hold Monster
Hold Monster is your new Melee destruction spell. Being attacked by a fighter type mob? HOLD THEM. Will save spell.

Recommended spell swap:
Hypnotism for Nightshield
With your casting speed on hold monster, hypnotism is not necessary. Use web for group control, if necessary. More mobs cast magic missles and force missiles at high levels, including the Stormreaver. Magic missles are unavoidable damage, and this simple spell lasts for 1min/level, and absorbs all missile effects. It also gives resistance bonus to saves.

Spell Choices: 11th Level
3rd Level - Protection from energy
4th Level - Stoneskin
5th Level - Cone of Cold
I R SQUISSHEEEE
Displacement and stoneskin is the BEST armor class in the game. Use it, love it. Live it.
Protection from energy may seem like it is unnecessary, but you won't think so when you get hit with 100 damage lightning and 180 damage polar rays. Damage mitigation is your friend. Cone of Cold is your new burning hands, except much better. Especially useful on fire monsters (14th level crits up to 2000-ish).

Spell choices: 12th level
6th Level - Flesh to Stone
This spell is your new caster-stopper. It is a fort save, and clerics/caster types have low con. Use it, and love it. Spam it, if you must.

Spell Choices: 13th Level
4th Level-Enervation
5th level-Dominate Person
6th Level-Greater Heroism
Enervation is your debuff spell. Hit tough mobs with an enervation (it has no save) and then PK to your heart's content.
Dominate Person is your new charm person.

Possible Spell Swap, depending on preference
You may wish to keep web, but I find myself with no shortage of spells to throw with this build. I swap web for false life, free temp. hit points from mana.

Spell Choice: 14th Level
7th - Finger of Death
Single fortitude save or death. Learn to love it.

Spell Choice: 15th Level
5th - Break Enchantment
6th - Disintegrate
7th - Banishment

Spell Choice: 16th Level
8th - Trap the Soul - or swap for something else, Greater Shout, or Otto's if you actually intend on using your 8th level slot regularly

Enhancements
-----------------
WIP

Eldun
08-14-2007, 08:57 AM
What would your recommended list of weapons, items be for this build?

Aspenor
08-14-2007, 09:05 AM
What would your recommended list of weapons, items be for this build?

recommended if available:
Helm of Wizardry VI or VII, or Helm of Concentration 10+, pick opposite of ring slot
Fearsome Robe of Heavy Fortification/Improved False Life
+6 Charisma Ring
Feather Falling Boots of Springing(highest + possible)
Stormreaver's Napkin
Superior Potency V or VI one hander, V might suffice since I dont think I have and 6+ damage spells
Superior Lore on handers or Green Blade, recommend superior lore
+10 or better concentration Ring, or Wiz VI or VII if available
Bracers of the Demon's Consort
Pouch of Jerky or Stormreaver Head
GFL Belt or Heavy fort belt (see robe, pick other)

Fennario
08-14-2007, 09:29 AM
Just out of curiosity, does the jump skill cap at 40 as I have heard? So with the jump spell (+30), and a pair of Springing +11 boots (covers the -1 str mod if not wearing an item), you would still have the highest jump attainable.

Just wondering, as I chose to max out Diplomacy on my sorcerer. Thanks.

P.S. I wouldn't trade Diplomacy for the world... use it all the time and I love it.

Aspenor
08-14-2007, 09:35 AM
Just out of curiosity, does the jump skill cap at 40 as I have heard? So with the jump spell (+30), and a pair of Springing +11 boots (covers the -1 str mod if not wearing an item), you would still have the highest jump attainable.

Just wondering, as I chose to max out Diplomacy on my sorcerer. Thanks.

P.S. I wouldn't trade Diplomacy for the world... use it all the time and I love it.

I have heard yes and no, I tend to lean toward yes.

wiglin
08-14-2007, 09:47 AM
Aspenor,

Here is my set up and why: (This is my opinion and reflects my playstyle)

I chose Drow:

Str 10 (Carry Weight)
Dex 14 (With a +2 Tome I can max my dex bonus in a mithril chain shirt)
Con 12 (More is better, but I hate spending 2 for 1 on creation points)
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 20 (nuff said...lol)

Feats:
Maximise
SF: Illusion
Heighten
GSF:Illusion
SF:UMD

I am big fan of pick something and do it well. At level 12 with a Cha of 30 I can PK my way through just about anything.

I am not a big fan of taking extend on a sorcerer. Battles are just too quick and I am not in the party to perma-haste.

I like being able to get my umd into the 30's as a pure sorcerer. If you are not a umd junky then spell penetration would be a better choice.

Overall I prefer the flexibility of the necro line and I will eventually swap out illusion for necromancy, (after we get wail of the banshee), but for now I enjoy landing my pk's on the first try.

If the mob has a high will save and I think I will have a hard time pk'ing them, then I will cast FtS.

I keep fear as a backup spell if my pk fails and a high fort mob is chasing me. Fear lands reliably enough without any focus, that I would rather keep the dc on my pk as high as possible.

Anyways just some thoughts on my insta'killer.

Aspenor
08-14-2007, 10:07 AM
I have had friends that opted for the Skill Focus: UMD feat as well, I chose to leave it out to maintain the build focus.

wiglin
08-14-2007, 10:25 AM
Its not needed, more of a playstyle choice.

I chose to be able to max ac in mithril chain shirt, again its more for soloing normal content then anything. I will be able to reach in the 40's with my ac.

For the new sorcerer I agree that more con and a fearsome robe would serve them better.

Aspenor
08-14-2007, 11:32 AM
Given that every toon gets two free feat respecs (one for that Dragonmark quest, one for 75 Agents favour), what do you think about taking Empower at level 1, and swapping it out for Maximize later on (like say level 8 or so)? Maximize burns up a LOT of SPs... (This will only be worse after the metamagic changes occur - high level spells will be getting a lot cheaper, but low level spells are getting a lot more expensive.)

I took Empower at level 1 on my Sor6, and am thinking about swapping out for Maximize once I get Firewall.

Mike

THat works, too. I haven't been able to toy with the new metamagic costs so far.

*snick snack went the ninja blade*

amysrevenge
08-14-2007, 11:32 AM
Given that every toon gets two free feat respecs (one for that Dragonmark quest, one for 75 Agents favour), what do you think about taking Empower at level 1, and swapping it out for Maximize later on (like say level 8 or so)? Maximize burns up a LOT of SPs... (This will only be worse after the metamagic changes occur - high level spells will be getting a lot cheaper, but low level spells are getting a lot more expensive.)

I took Empower at level 1 on my Sor6, and am thinking about swapping out for Maximize once I get Firewall.

Mike

NoLimHoldem
08-15-2007, 10:41 AM
Just out of curiosity, does the jump skill cap at 40 as I have heard? So with the jump spell (+30), and a pair of Springing +11 boots (covers the -1 str mod if not wearing an item), you would still have the highest jump attainable.

Just wondering, as I chose to max out Diplomacy on my sorcerer. Thanks.

P.S. I wouldn't trade Diplomacy for the world... use it all the time and I love it.

There is a cap on skills, I don't know what it is but I'm sure it's a lot higher than your sorcerer will ever get (jump). My paly with +30 jump spell, +11 jump boots 30 STR usually has no problems getting anywhere. Sometimes I even take off my armor and stuff just to see how high I can jump.

Oh ya, my lvl 14 sorcerer can almost reach a 50 jump fully buffed, Jump spell, GH, +11 boots. So I know it is at least that high.

By the way, I think the highest possible jump skill you can have is:
30 jump
15 boots
17 rank
14 STR
4 GH
= 80
not sure if the cap goes up that high or not.

jkm
08-15-2007, 10:54 AM
you can get higher than that

SF: jump +3
athletic? feat +2
luck +2
inspire competence +2

etc

Dark-Star
08-15-2007, 01:28 PM
Yes your skill can show greater than 40, but is it not hard capped at 40? Meaning someone showing 80 jump would not be able to jump higher than someone showing a 40 jump skill?

XFracture
08-16-2007, 02:07 AM
Given that every toon gets two free feat respecs (one for that Dragonmark quest, one for 75 Agents favour)...

I think I missed this, when did this happen?

Edit: Nm, I thought you meant free agents. I bout had a heartattack. XD

Sokar6000
08-16-2007, 10:44 AM
Can I ask for your justification in taking neither mental tougness or improved mental toughness on this build? Are you relying on always having a DV cleric to bring you back up?

Fennario
08-16-2007, 02:15 PM
There is a cap on skills, I don't know what it is but I'm sure it's a lot higher than your sorcerer will ever get (jump). My paly with +30 jump spell, +11 jump boots 30 STR usually has no problems getting anywhere. Sometimes I even take off my armor and stuff just to see how high I can jump.

Oh ya, my lvl 14 sorcerer can almost reach a 50 jump fully buffed, Jump spell, GH, +11 boots. So I know it is at least that high.

By the way, I think the highest possible jump skill you can have is:
30 jump
15 boots
17 rank
14 STR
4 GH
= 80
not sure if the cap goes up that high or not.

I'm pretty sure the cap is 40. So even though your sorcerer can buff up to 50, he is jumping exactly the same height as my sorcerer at 40.

I tested this myself the other night. With the jump spell and +11 boots I was at a 40 jump. I jumped in front of a fixed object and observed how high my jump was.

I then buffed myself up to a 50 jump (+13 boots, +4 GH, +6 str belt, +1 rabbit gloves).

I made sure that my camera angle did not change while changing equipment and casting GH.

I jumped to the EXACT same point with a 50 jump as I did with a 40.

If there was a difference it was so miniscule that I could not see it.

I then did the reverse. I took the boots off which put me at a 37 jump. There was a small difference, but noticable. I was not quite reaching the same point as I did with the 40 jump.

So from my observations, I would say that the jump skill is indeed capped at 40.


P.S. Sorry about the thread derailment.

P.S.S. I am not trying to discourage the spending of points on the jump skill. If you decide to max out your jump, then you won't need to use an item slot to have the maximum jump possible. I just wanted to point out, that it is very easy to obtain the max jump possible without spending a single skill point on it. So if your playstyle is like mine, you can have full points in Concentration, Diplomacy, UMD, and still achieve maximum mobility in combat.

Aspenor
08-16-2007, 05:40 PM
Can I ask for your justification in taking neither mental tougness or improved mental toughness on this build? Are you relying on always having a DV cleric to bring you back up?

No I am relying on not needing to worry about mana. Your a freaking sorc....

Fennario
08-16-2007, 07:05 PM
Can I ask for your justification in taking neither mental tougness or improved mental toughness on this build? Are you relying on always having a DV cleric to bring you back up?

MT and IMT give you 150 extra spellpoints at level 14. Level 7 spells cost 40 spellpoints. So if your Finger of Death (or a heightened PK) fails just 4 times during the duration of your manna bar, the extra manna from Mental Toughness just went down the toilet.

By having mobs save less, and being able to punch through the SR of mobs more often, you become more manna effecient. The spell focus schools, and spell penetration allow you to do this.

(Personally I usually just nuke high SR mobs, so with my human sorcerer I took Empower with the extra feat)

Varis
08-17-2007, 07:40 AM
MT and IMT give you 150 extra spellpoints at level 14. Level 7 spells cost 40 spellpoints. So if your Finger of Death (or a heightened PK) fails just 4 times during the duration of your manna bar, the extra manna from Mental Toughness just went down the toilet.

By having mobs save less, and being able to punch through the SR of mobs more often, you become more manna effecient. The spell focus schools, and spell penetration allow you to do this.

(Personally I usually just nuke high SR mobs, so with my human sorcerer I took Empower with the extra feat)

and if you face mobs that are immune to finger and pk, then you wasted the feats period...

I don't have a problem getting finger of death off. There is no way I have them save 4 times in a dungeon because I don't pk everything that moves. I have a 34 charisma and a focus item but no feats spent on necromancy. As long as I don't try to pk elite troll berserkers it works almost everytime (unless they roll a 20 kinda deal).

Now, if you are a insta kill build and depend on killing EVERYTHING via those means, then yes, I would personally go SF: necromancy and GSF: necromancy ALONG WITH spell penetration and greater spell penetration. 5th feat being heighten of course.
mental toughness and IMT are very important but for a insta kill spell you gotta insure they will land on tough stuff like high fort save mobs and SR mobs.

Fennario
08-17-2007, 08:11 AM
and if you face mobs that are immune to finger and pk, then you wasted the feats period...

I don't have a problem getting finger of death off. There is no way I have them save 4 times in a dungeon because I don't pk everything that moves. I have a 34 charisma and a focus item but no feats spent on necromancy. As long as I don't try to pk elite troll berserkers it works almost everytime (unless they roll a 20 kinda deal).

Now, if you are a insta kill build and depend on killing EVERYTHING via those means, then yes, I would personally go SF: necromancy and GSF: necromancy ALONG WITH spell penetration and greater spell penetration. 5th feat being heighten of course.
mental toughness and IMT are very important but for a insta kill spell you gotta insure they will land on tough stuff like high fort save mobs and SR mobs.

....ummm, well I thought this was an Insta Kill build thread.

I play a Human who has not scored a +3 tome from the Reaver yet, so I can only have a 33 cha (have a 32 actually, since I have no need for Sorcerer Charisma III atm). I respeced into more of an Insta Kill sorcerer once I got FoD and played around with it a little bit. I am mostly in Giant Hold nowadays, so I do FoD/PK most stuff that moves. I have become way more manna effecient since the respec... that's a fact that I have experienced first hand.

If I was still running Wizzy King elite every other night like a few months ago, then yeah... maybe those feats would not be worth as much to me. And maybe if the undead filled MOD 5 gets released, I'll find that my old nuker style is what I want to go back to. I have shards and plat coming out of my ears.

And just because you don't have the Mental Toughness feats doesn't mean that all of a sudden you can't nuke. You're still gonna have more spellpoints than any other class. In fact, out of the 4 main casting classes, I'd say that sorcerer needs those feats the least. If your playstyle is better suited with them, then by all means go for it.

But the way I play right now, my current feat selection is what works best for me.

Aspenor
08-20-2007, 10:15 AM
Enhancements added

Shade
08-20-2007, 12:24 PM
Thats almost the same as my build i think, tho i think I started 14 int. (like to hit all the int runes and max diplo, while keeping jump, bluff and some other skills up a bit)
Big difference is I take empower vs SF illusion.

My sorc is purely focused on killing stuff in 1 or 2 shots as fast a possible. But some stuff is just imune to pk and fod so you gota use max+emp to get your dmg high enough to kill it.
Plus for spells like wall of fire, its just plain more effecient.

Fyi: You can copy/paste your 2nd post to your first to fix your self-ninja.

Aspenor
08-20-2007, 12:27 PM
T
Fyi: You can copy/paste your 2nd post to your first to fix your self-ninja.

I R JINJAZZ!!

I'm lazy.

MrWizard
08-20-2007, 01:54 PM
I think you will find having 2 spell pen feats, and the three enhancement feats for spell pen, will ensure your insta death on the vast amount of mobs that have spell resistance and those coming in the next update.

My wiz has only one spell pen feat and my sorc 2 of them....my sorc almost never sees the blue splash of death and my wiz sees a lot of them.

+2 might not seem like much, but your build spends two feats on illusion and necro focus to gain a +1....so in that vein, the +2 is a huge amount.

This is only from experience. I was surprised how incredible two spell pen feats are...but it is well worth it.

The list of creatures with spell resistance is HUGE and getting huger every update. Flesh to stone, pk, FoD, charms, etc...all can be affected, no matter what the build.

As an inst killer, I would forgo extend and add the second spell pen. As a 14 your resists will last 14 minutes....more than long enough. IF you are losing +2 spell pen just to extend haste...well...I would question that immensely as a poor choice, especially at high levels when only poor builds with poor items are the only ones who need it.

They need an insta kill spell for most spiders dang it!!! and oozes!!!!
And they need to increase death to undeath so we can kill them too!!!!!

Then a true insta killer can come up from the ranks kicking butt

Aspenor
08-20-2007, 02:46 PM
They need an insta kill spell for most spiders dang it!!! and oozes!!!!
And they need to increase death to undeath so we can kill them too!!!!!

Then a true insta killer can come up from the ranks kicking butt

Spiders and ooze are easily destroyed using finger of death.

Jakylpops
08-20-2007, 03:15 PM
I think you will find having 2 spell pen feats, and the three enhancement feats for spell pen, will ensure your insta death on the vast amount of mobs that have spell resistance and those coming in the next update.

My wiz has only one spell pen feat and my sorc 2 of them....my sorc almost never sees the blue splash of death and my wiz sees a lot of them.

+2 might not seem like much, but your build spends two feats on illusion and necro focus to gain a +1....so in that vein, the +2 is a huge amount.


Your SPELL FOCUS feats are being used EVERY TIME YOU CAST IT!
Spell Penetration sits there doing NOTHING AT ALL until you FINALLY cast a spell on something with SR.

In my opinion, if you're never ever seeing the blue SR flash, it's because you're overkilling on the spell penetration, and those feats are going to be absolutely useless against 80% of the creatures in the game right now.

You want to see that flash once in awhile without ever seeing it twice against the same target. That means you're right in the sweet spot without wasting feats on something that is USELESS most of the time. Right now I have absolutely no problems casting FoD on anything even on elite and all I'm using is a spell pen VII item, with 3 levels of Spell Pen. enhancement.

Aspenor
08-20-2007, 03:27 PM
Your SPELL FOCUS feats are being used EVERY TIME YOU CAST IT!
Spell Penetration sits there doing NOTHING AT ALL until you FINALLY cast a spell on something with SR.

In my opinion, if you're never ever seeing the blue SR flash, it's because you're overkilling on the spell penetration, and those feats are going to be absolutely useless against 80% of the creatures in the game right now.

You want to see that flash once in awhile without ever seeing it twice against the same target. That means you're right in the sweet spot without wasting feats on something that is USELESS most of the time. Right now I have absolutely no problems casting FoD on anything even on elite and all I'm using is a spell pen VII item, with 3 levels of Spell Pen. enhancement.

Since the drow above has no spell pen feats, I'll assume human firstly.

Having 1 feat of spell penetration completely eliminates the need for a spell penetration VII item. Why bother to carry it? Less work, less twitch, usually means more fun for many people.

juniorpfactors
08-20-2007, 03:52 PM
the item and the feat would stack right?? so why not both?

Ishturi
08-21-2007, 07:45 AM
If you are truly going insta-kill... why take heighten?

You can't heighten finger of death! Wait until the feat at level 15 to take heighten (so that at 16th level you can heighten finger to lvl 8 spell)

Also, Spell Focus: Illusion will want to be swapped out for GSF: Necro. Fingering everything in sight is a lot easier if the mobs have to make a 32 fort save.(10 base+7 spell level+12 34 charisma+2 feats+1 item)

Aspenor
08-21-2007, 08:46 AM
Because you can still heighten PK, and various other spells of use.

Artemis
08-23-2007, 10:34 AM
Ok, i am building a new sorc. and I have read the thread.

I am looking for some consensus..

Would it make sense to drop the extend feat for spell pen. feat??

Are those with no spell pen. feat seeing much resistance at the higher lvls with just the 3 spell pen. enhancements?? would I need a spell pen. item then??

Or should I go with extend until the level cap increases and take spell pen. feat then??

there has been some discussion on taking the empower feat instead of the SF: illusion feat. If I have a sup. potency item, would that make up a lot of what the empower feat does??

Also, at lvl 13 you suggest taking dominate person, would a heightened charm person spell do the job, which would free up that spot for taking another spell, like cloudkill, etc..

Thanks

Aspenor
08-23-2007, 11:42 AM
Dominate is way better thna charm person, one save per minute, but if you really want you can substitute.

Asking me to help fit cloudkill into a spell list is a bad idea ;) I HATE CLOUDKILL!! I WILL NEVER HAVE IT ON ANY SORC!!

Aspenor
04-22-2008, 09:23 AM
Updated feat lists and added spell levels for 15 and 16. Kindof amazed people still use this.

sirgog
04-23-2008, 05:17 AM
I'm pretty sure the cap is 40. So even though your sorcerer can buff up to 50, he is jumping exactly the same height as my sorcerer at 40.



Best way to confirm this is to go to Sorrowdusk Isle, and the spot where Vermillo spawns.

With a 40 jump, you will be just unable to reach Vermillo's perch - you will jump just a little too low to get there.

With a 50+ jump, you will be just unable to reach Vermillo's perch - you will jump just a little too low to get there.


Conclusion - jump IS hardcapped at 40. So don't spend points in it - a +30 bonus from the spell, a +7 bonus from boots, and a +4 GH bonus (and a -1 Str penalty) will get you anywhere in the game that can be jumped to.

Drwaz99
04-30-2008, 10:25 PM
First of all great threads. I have always played the melee types and am building my first Sorc. Could you possibly list out how you went about spending your own specific action points. I want to get this right the first time so I don't get all frustrated. It's hard enough to stay back a few feet and an not charge ahead.

Thanks!

Aspenor
05-01-2008, 08:00 AM
First of all great threads. I have always played the melee types and am building my first Sorc. Could you possibly list out how you went about spending your own specific action points. I want to get this right the first time so I don't get all frustrated. It's hard enough to stay back a few feet and an not charge ahead.

Thanks!

Human (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/enh/cgi-bin/enh.cgi?race=human&sorcerer=16&barbarian=0&bard=0&priority=&unused=0&current=821,819,818,148,192,232,134,169,572,595,62 0,641,575,602,633,670,183,227,267,604,635,665,589, 626,154,189&action=-2)

Drow (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/enh/cgi-bin/enh.cgi?race=drow&sorcerer=16&barbarian=0&bard=0&priority=&unused=0&current=679,709,148,192,232,134,169,572,595,620,64 1,575,602,633,670,585,183,227,267,604,635,665,589, 626,154,189&action=-2)

Drwaz99
05-01-2008, 08:57 AM
Thanks dude! Very nice!:D

Vizzini
06-27-2008, 05:21 AM
Follow up on Recommended enhancements?

Firecloud
06-27-2008, 07:04 AM
Kindof amazed people still use this.

Why wouldnt we still use this?? This is a great thread and a great guide for newbie Sorcerors/Wizzys. Kudos to you Asp.

Aspenor
06-27-2008, 07:52 AM
Why wouldnt we still use this?? This is a great thread and a great guide for newbie Sorcerors/Wizzys. Kudos to you Asp.

I posted that like over two months ago ;)

Aspenor
06-27-2008, 07:54 AM
Follow up on Recommended enhancements?

Like since when? Mod 7?

shamz
06-29-2008, 09:09 AM
lovin it!
when is pt3 comin out?

Aspenor
06-29-2008, 09:29 AM
lovin it!
when is pt3 comin out?

pt 3 is the nuker pt 1 is generalist around here somewhere....:)

Venar
06-29-2008, 12:46 PM
I know Aspenor hates when i say that, but to me, specialisation on a sorc is gimping yourself.
Stay generalist.
You need 2 spells to insta-kill (a fort save and a will save)
You need 2 spells to be a nuker (one of each 2 different element)
You need 2 spells to be crowd control (one will, one str/dex)

There are some subtility, but overall, you will be much much more appreciated if you can do more then one thing.
I hate, just hate asking a sorc to buff/debuff, to be told "i am a nuker".
UH??? What, you picked 26 redundant damag spells?

So, in that sense, with the low # of feat we get, i advice against taking spell focus. +1 to your Finger of death... Titally not worth it IMO.

Millage may vary, but i grow very tired of one-trick poney sorc who run out of SP after 6 portals in the shroud because they fingered everything, thinking it is actually usefull.

I play a sorc, and guys, let me tell you a sad truth:

90% if the time you insta-kill a mob... it wasn't needed anyways.

Aspenor
06-29-2008, 01:02 PM
I know Aspenor hates when i say that, but to me, specialisation on a sorc is gimping yourself.
Stay generalist.
You need 2 spells to insta-kill (a fort save and a will save)
You need 2 spells to be a nuker (one of each 2 different element)
You need 2 spells to be crowd control (one will, one str/dex)

There are some subtility, but overall, you will be much much more appreciated if you can do more then one thing.
I hate, just hate asking a sorc to buff/debuff, to be told "i am a nuker".
UH??? What, you picked 26 redundant damag spells?

So, in that sense, with the low # of feat we get, i advice against taking spell focus. +1 to your Finger of death... Titally not worth it IMO.

Millage may vary, but i grow very tired of one-trick poney sorc who run out of SP after 6 portals in the shroud because they fingered everything, thinking it is actually usefull.

I play a sorc, and guys, let me tell you a sad truth:

90% if the time you insta-kill a mob... it wasn't needed anyways.

I don't hate any of that.

In the current end-game, specialty is a usually a shortcoming and not an advantage nowadays.

These posts are old old old...so as the game changes, the needs will change for every caster.

For example, the old fire/ice pure nuker thread. That sorcerer used to be able to, quite literally, solo every quest in DDO. Not so much anymore.

Venar
06-29-2008, 05:56 PM
oups. didnt see the date.
Looks like we actually agree.

Just had my share of narrow-minded sorc this week in pugs. Man, what a bad week.

Riddikulus
06-29-2008, 07:18 PM
I don't hate any of that.

In the current end-game, specialty is a usually a shortcoming and not an advantage nowadays.

These posts are old old old...so as the game changes, the needs will change for every caster.

For example, the old fire/ice pure nuker thread. That sorcerer used to be able to, quite literally, solo every quest in DDO. Not so much anymore.
Currently leveling up something modeled after your fire/ice nuker... almost level 11 now.

Do you have some recommendations as to direction to take from here to be ready for mod 7 content when I get there?

cyadra
06-30-2008, 01:23 AM
My advice is start now to switch out your lower lever damage spells. Right at your level you are going to realize like I did, hey I don't need burning hands anymore. Or Niacs isn't as effective anymore. At 14 now, i went with FW, FB, CC, LB, SR, CK as my damage spells. I love acid rain as a crowd control (one of the most underrated spells) and for insta kill FOD, PK and disintegrate of course. My only buffs are hero, blur and stoneskin. I have haste and some others. But start switching out the low levels now if you already havent done so. Fire spells are still good in high level content, just make sure you keep one cold spell and a electric spell as well. Knock maybe useful, I use it once in a while, and if I had the space I would definitely have picked DD. Helpful if you know how to use it.

Aspenor
01-04-2009, 10:05 AM
bumps to the top. thanks Borr

Borror0
01-04-2009, 10:14 AM
bumps to the top. thanks Borr
To avoid having to bump them, you could always put them somewhere else like, say, on a wiki.

Angelus_dead
01-04-2009, 10:23 AM
To avoid having to bump them, you could always put them somewhere else like, say, on a wiki.
That would be more likely to happen if the wiki in question had a section for guides and articles (meaning an "article" as in a magazine, not like a database entry). New editors would be especially unwilling / unable to edit the front page, but if they don't then there's no good way to reach the article.

Borror0
01-04-2009, 10:29 AM
That would be more likely to happen if the wiki in question had a section for guides and articles (meaning an "article" as in a magazine, not like a database entry). New editors would be especially unwilling / unable to edit the front page, but if they don't then there's no good way to reach the article.
It's not like the community really cares about the wiki anyway.

Angelus_dead
01-04-2009, 11:03 AM
It's not like the community really cares about the wiki anyway.
And why is that? There are several reasons, one of them being that neat articles like this aren't hosted there. And why aren't they? Because there's no obvious place where to put them.

The DDOwiki has almost no detectable example of information that isn't a straightforward fact, making it hard to find where to insert other kinds of knowledge that's more subjective, involved, or interconnected. Where would one look to place a guide for what quests are popular, prominent multiclass combos, which debuff spells are best, or how BAB changes attacks per minute?

For example, when mod7 came out you probably remember participating in a forum thread where players worked out the exact progression of threats in Vision of Destruction, along with what thresholds of time, boss hp, or monster-killing triggered them. That data never got to DDOwiki, and there's no place that looks like it's waiting to be filled in. As shown by the thread, very many players (including yourself) were willing to spend 30-90 minutes documenting those mechanics for others, but they didn't put it on the wiki because the barrier to entry was too high. Contrast that page (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/A_Vision_of_Destruction) with a comprable raid fight on the WOW wiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/C%27Thun).

Borror0
01-04-2009, 11:22 AM
Actually, the threshold you describe isn't there.

Maybe it was there before, but I'm not that selective when it comes to subjective information. There are places for guides. Heck, the newbie guide is linked in the header. The multiclassing link in the header was the same, but I changed the article because it was too much of a mess (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/index.php?title=Multiclassing&oldid=26299).

Elliot was an ass and a pain to deal with, and I'm sure this didn't help the wiki, but I don't care if there is subjective information for as long as it's not total non-sense either.

Regarding this very thread, there's even a place (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Starting_a_Sorcerer) for it. It's even linked (http://ddo.enterwiki.net /page/Special:Whatlinkshere/Starting_a_Sorcerer) from the sorcerer class page (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Sorcerer). Same goes for quests, where helpful information is sometimes (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Ascension_Chamber) contained.

Angelus_dead
01-04-2009, 11:48 AM
Actually, the threshold you describe isn't there.
Wrong, it is there. To claim that it doesn't exist probably means you've conceived of an artificial distinction between an active barrier and a passive threshold. (For an authoritative explanation of what that means, open any Economics 101 book and read "Barrier To Entry" in the glossary)

An active barrier would be the stereotypical admin who chants "Not up to standards! Where's your source? Delete delete delete!". That would be pretty obvious if it were happening.

But a passive obstacle means a lack of standardized support for the common tasks to get going. A person might be an expert on the distinctions between a battle-cleric splashing fig1, monk1, or monk2, but that doesn't imply he'll have any ability to click edit on the main page (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/edit/Home) and add an elegant link to a guide without first spending more time studying the esoterics of mediawiki template rules than it took to write the article itself.



Maybe it was there before, but I'm not that selective when it comes to subjective information. There are places for guides. Heck, the newbie guide is linked in the header.
Yes, and that's a good demonstration of the problem. Editing the site header is not an appropriate task for someone who's written a new guide, especially if the guide is on something of narrow-interest like "How many spiders you can kill and still get Sleeping Dust chests" or "Which quests contain earth elementals of under 11 HD". There is no category for "guides", which makes it more difficult to add a new one. A person would need not only to have the guide written, but also learn how to create a Guide category.

That's the kind of task that it's unhelpful to throw out to the world with a cry of "Anyone is allowed to edit it", because permission is not the same as ability. It's something that non-SME organizers should do in skeletal form before hoping users will spontaneously provide content.


Regarding this very thread, there's even a place (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Starting_a_Sorcerer) for it. It's even linked (http://ddo.enterwiki.net /page/Special:Whatlinkshere/Starting_a_Sorcerer) from the sorcerer class page (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Sorcerer). Same goes for quests, where helpful information is sometimes (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Ascension_Chamber) contained.
Further examples of the problem.

Borror0
01-04-2009, 01:16 PM
Is that (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Home) better?

I'll make a category of guides if any are added/current ones are updated and link from the front page.

Aspenor
01-28-2009, 08:42 AM
Is that (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Home) better?

I'll make a category of guides if any are added/current ones are updated and link from the front page.

i'm going to try to make time to rewrite and centralize these posts into a Handbook. I just need people to leave my post alone until I'm finished copy/pasting all three. :)