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Jket
08-13-2007, 01:59 PM
So that I am not the only one to realize but the language in the PVP area.. Especially the Wayward Lobster can get quite offensive. Let me ask this I get reported because of one statement. I see others jumping around throwing a F-bomb back and forth. I report sometimes if its directed at me or if I know someone under age is there when the comment is said. But I am not seeing any consqequences Turbine. Your letting random people run around cussing, how about some productivity be there. I have came up with a couple conclusions:

1) Star/Symbol out curse words in all chats but Guild.
e.g. F#@!, B@!$^, F$^, S$@#

2) Actually have GM's that deal with all the accountable players not just handpick a couple and then say their job is done.

Lets move on... I have recieved my first 1 day BAN sometime within the last day or watever. I have a good idea who did it and when. All I have to say is, for all the times you've said and done bad things and not get reported expect this, Jket to come back and start trolling in the game with issues that got me in trouble. I heard/see a curse word in general chat, reported. I hear pointless name calling, reported.

I always thought a game was for fun obviously my fun has gone to far and some others have too. So when I come back I will allow as much slack as I have recieved because obviously no one else cares when certain people cuss/say offensive things.

Jket

babygirl
08-13-2007, 02:11 PM
I hear you there! but I'm pretty sure that the GM's banned you for a decent reason! They wouldnt ban you if it wasn't something that you should have said/done.

jayne
08-13-2007, 02:19 PM
Dim im sorry bout the ban, and i was there the night it happened... now im not going to point fingers and we both know who did it.. this person is not the nicest of wizzies out there and we both know it.. anyway this person has done far worse for far less things.. and never has this person been banded... open your eyes and keep a good look out Dim, cuz i am..;)

Jket
08-13-2007, 02:28 PM
yeh I am not trying to cover up things I say im just trying to reveal things other people are saying that are just as bad if not worse then wat I said. Here are a few examples (bleeped out if needed) from wat I have seen so far.
These are not precise quotes but as close to as best of my knowledge... These were directed at numerous people not me, I was just spectating the other day in the Lobster:


1) "Riedra and Aundair were shut down because they were both garbage"
- I myself find this funny especially since Khyber has had the most technical issues.

2) "Stop running P$55@"
-A level 14 palading running from a angry 14 barbarian and thats the 14 barbarians response to the paladins running.

3) "(can't say name)'s builds are all S#!@"
-This was said to a real good player I know, ironic because the person saying this was running from him in the arena.

4) "Elite F@%%0^"
-This is wat drew the straw and got me banned. I think that it is MAYBE as bad as number 2 on this list. All point of view I guess though.

Kett

Strakeln
08-13-2007, 02:30 PM
I simply cannot understand people's obsession with not hearing/reading certain words. They're words, people. They cannot harm you any more than you let them.

Jket, if you f*@^*ng report me for my g$%&^mn language I'm gonna tell Goolan you're a s%^*ty Elite Raider. Then you'll be sorry.

Jket
08-13-2007, 02:33 PM
Im F@C#@N Sorry Strake but I got reported for "just words" so other people will suffer my fate.

:D

Strakeln
08-13-2007, 03:13 PM
&^%^&*! ^&*(^&*^7 **^$%S Jket! ^@#!$%**^ &%^$% 8%^$^ %$^&*D!!!!

^8*%#$? &* $#%#$ (*)*(&*? *&^*(&$@! :p

Jket
08-13-2007, 03:21 PM
@#!@# you #!@#!@ @#!@# !111212........... !@#!@#.

Yajerman01
08-13-2007, 03:44 PM
I understanmd your dilema there Dim...(hey this obviously didnt happen last night as I was slain down by you in lobster) hehehehe.


Words of advice people, "We should never take words too serious. Words are very important, but if we take them too serious then we destroy everything we have accomplished."


Having that said, I think almost every imaginative explicative has been directed to me more throughout my tenure here on DDO. I simply take a screen shot of what their typing, because apparently everyone that tramples on me are not intelligent enough to talk on a mic. I think they like to see the words they have expressed.

Anyhow, I just save them for when the day they really get under my skin I will then just piecemeal each saved message/screen shot, treating them each as seperate actions until the damage is done.

I dont think its necessary to ram somone immediately you see it, there could be various mitigating factors; however I digress, you do what you feel is in your best interest, ill just make sure that if im cussing, i mic it, not type it!

lol!

Strakeln
08-13-2007, 03:51 PM
ill just make sure that if im cussing, i mic it, not type it!Really not a bad strategy. There used to be a person on Riedra that was well known for frequent use of certain words (she worked on the bodies of the deceased). One day I was in a party and she was going off as usual on some sorcerer, F this and F that. He responded, in party chat, that she should F off.

Later in the instance, she claimed to be talking to a GM, and said that she thought she got the guy banned.

It was kind of like a murderer calling the cops on a shoplifter, but the shoplifter was caught on camera.

Uska
08-13-2007, 04:46 PM
I simply cannot understand people's obsession with not hearing/reading certain words. They're words, people. They cannot harm you any more than you let them.

Jket, if you f*@^*ng report me for my g$%&^mn language I'm gonna tell Goolan you're a s%^*ty Elite Raider. Then you'll be sorry.

Yeah using such words is real mature...I have and will report them kids play this game and well they offend me as well.

InfidelofHaLL
08-13-2007, 04:55 PM
srry to hear that jket i know i have seen and heard of lots off ppl getting banned yet other ppl get away with it more power to you when you come back :)

Boulderun
08-13-2007, 05:45 PM
:rolleyes:

Word censoring should be a client-side option only. This is a pretty standard basic feature that is inexplicably missing from DDO.

Harrassment is an entirely separate issue.

And regarding the, "Won't somebody please think of the children" argument, know that it is not conversational profanity on the internet that will corrupt your innocent child's morals and turn him into a fountain of vulgarities; rather it is the warped and irrational notion about the horrors of a certain tiny subset of the vocabulary which parents spontaneously develop that confuses and promotes the inappropriate or excessive use thereof.

Nexx
08-13-2007, 06:43 PM
Isn't talking about a ban not allowed on forums? :p

Strakeln
08-13-2007, 06:57 PM
Yeah using such words is real mature...I have and will report them kids play this game and well they offend me as well.Do you know why they offend you? Or is it just because society/parents told you to be offended?

Really, your argument about the use of particular words reflecting on one's maturity is pretty, well, immature. I mean, really, *most* of us stopped challenging the maturity of others when we were what, 15?

Kids, as you point out, are born offensive. Can we report them?

Strakeln
08-13-2007, 06:58 PM
And regarding the, "Won't somebody please think of the children" argument, know that it is not conversational profanity on the internet that will corrupt your innocent child's morals and turn him into a fountain of vulgarities; rather it is the warped and irrational notion about the horrors of a certain tiny subset of the vocabulary which parents spontaneously develop that confuses and promotes the inappropriate or excessive use thereof.Well said.

Jket
08-13-2007, 09:13 PM
thanks for the replies and Nexx this isnt about me getting banned... Its about others not getting banned. I am not making this ME ME ME. Because thats not wat its about... Its the simple common curtesy that we hear Curse words and slurs each day. Do we go tell our mommy or call the cops because of it??

The answer can be either way depending on the person. If you say yes we should tell, then obviously you were the child that was given candy and told that if you do good deeds you get rewarded.

If you said no i wont tell, then your the person that everyone got along with and is cool with because you don't snitch about everything.

Let me compare this to something that I can relate too and some of you even when you were younger. (around my age of 17). HIGHSCHOOL. Okay lets start the bad analogy now:

1) Little Timmy calls Johnny a F!@@#$. (enter random curse word here).

2) Now... Johnny hits a crossroad.... A) Either be mature and leave the situation or B)Rat on Little Timmy to the teacher and get him in trouble, and then be known as a snitch.

3) From there Little Timmy learns a lesson... A) If he was not told on, believe it or not there is a chance he will gain some kind of respect or understanding aobut Johnny, Or on the flip side he might just continue to call him names etc.
B)If he was told on, most kids/ even ADULTS will grow a hatred towards the person who rats on them. This just causes more flaming and more name calling....

There are ways around this though in the game world... Those issues I have addressed before.... learn wat the heck /squelch is! You are told to read the rules and regulations why dont you also learn how to use a useful command to avoid this aggrevation. There are alot more people out there that you can meet now and play with...

Okay lastly I would like to state, I like this community and all the players, But however, as I began to speak about, PVP causes the worst EGO's to come out... (no not the waffles!) Also, there was alot of speculation with the other servers and the players being mixxed I feel like alot of that has been resolved in the more mature area of players.. And I would like to say sorry for offending any Aundairans/Khyberians as I hope the mean the same back to me!

Sincerely,
Jket

Vox
08-14-2007, 12:34 AM
The answer can be either way depending on the person. If you say yes we should tell, then obviously you were the child that was given candy and told that if you do good deeds you get rewarded.

If you said no i wont tell, then your the person that everyone got along with and is cool with because you don't snitch about everything.


Don't pigeon hole people. Human inconsistency is one of our most frustrating and beautiful traits. This kinda **** ****es me off.



Let me compare this to something that I can relate too and some of you even when you were younger. (around my age of 17). HIGHSCHOOL. Okay lets start the bad analogy now:

1) Little Timmy calls Johnny a F!@@#$. (enter random curse word here).

2) Now... Johnny hits a crossroad.... A) Either be mature and leave the situation or B)Rat on Little Timmy to the teacher and get him in trouble, and then be known as a snitch.


You missed an option. C) Johnny calmly explains to Timmy that his language is unacceptable, and if it continues Johnny will engage in consequences X, Y, Z. Depending on the individual and my relationship I prefer anything from. X = I will not speak to you again in the future to Y = I will report your behavior to someone with some level of authority to Z = I will engage in some sort of violent behavior that will likely discourage you from further innappropriate behavior (in high school I tended to stab people with pens... it was wrong, but people rarely interacted with me negatively after the first couple of incidents.)

This is in my opinion the best option, and it rarely used by people. It affords the offending individual an opportunity to recant, or to understand what is going to happen. The most important thing about this option is that you be prepared to follow through. Also, as a point, this is the option that you have selected. If you had chosen to just tattle/rat you would have reported the individual specified for things that had already happened.



3) From there Little Timmy learns a lesson... A) If he was not told on, believe it or not there is a chance he will gain some kind of respect or understanding aobut Johnny, Or on the flip side he might just continue to call him names etc.
B)If he was told on, most kids/ even ADULTS will grow a hatred towards the person who rats on them. This just causes more flaming and more name calling....


Personally, I would hope that Johnny lets Timmy know his options, and then if Timmy continues to behave innappropriately gets the **** kicked out of him. There's simply no excuse to continue to behave in an inappropriate manner once you've been told that it's unacceptable. You either move on and interact with different people who accept that type of behavior, or you accept the consequences of your actions.

Vox

Aranticus
08-14-2007, 12:52 AM
You missed an option. C) Johnny calmly explains to Timmy that his language is unacceptable, and if it continues Johnny will engage in consequences X, Y, Z. Depending on the individual and my relationship I prefer anything from. X = I will not speak to you again in the future to Y = I will report your behavior to someone with some level of authority to Z = I will engage in some sort of violent behavior that will likely discourage you from further innappropriate behavior (in high school I tended to stab people with pens... it was wrong, but people rarely interacted with me negatively after the first couple of incidents.)

This is in my opinion the best option, and it rarely used by people. It affords the offending individual an opportunity to recant, or to understand what is going to happen. The most important thing about this option is that you be prepared to follow through. Also, as a point, this is the option that you have selected. If you had chosen to just tattle/rat you would have reported the individual specified for things that had already happened.

while this is IYO the best option, it has also proven to be extremely ineffective if the other party displays certain traits:

1) defensive (they'll immediately argue that they are not in the wrong or starts to point fingers at others. some even challenge you to report everyone)

2) delibrately looking for trouble (they'll challenge you, flame you and do all sorts of things)

etc


Personally, I would hope that Johnny lets Timmy know his options, and then if Timmy continues to behave innappropriately gets the **** kicked out of him. There's simply no excuse to continue to behave in an inappropriate manner once you've been told that it's unacceptable. You either move on and interact with different people who accept that type of behavior, or you accept the consequences of your actions.

Vox

i'm not sure if you ever noticed but many youngsters these days dun give a d@mn abt what you tell them. when you try to be nice, they take it as you are being soft. when you are hard, they hide behind the relative safety of annon or their parents. the same for an adult. there is no 1 best way to interact with each other. different people react differently to different stimuli.

Uska
08-14-2007, 01:20 AM
Do you know why they offend you? Or is it just because society/parents told you to be offended?

Really, your argument about the use of particular words reflecting on one's maturity is pretty, well, immature. I mean, really, *most* of us stopped challenging the maturity of others when we were what, 15?

Kids, as you point out, are born offensive. Can we report them?

No using those words is stupid and that offends me you really cant be defending the use of such words. There is no reasonable place to use such language.

Jket
08-14-2007, 02:08 AM
in all honesty in the end words are words. We create their meaning. A simple word like, dog. With all due respect could of originally meant something offensive. Its all the persons perception. Some people have different views on OFFENSIVE MATERIAL.

I have met people in the game and r/l who think some things i say are offensive. Some people react with the same humor. All my words that I use in game are meant out of humor usualyl not anger as I hope everyone is like that. Besides, at the end of the day you must remember its just a game. On that note I would like to say and recreate this phrase:

Go F$#@ yourself!

I would like to make it mean Have a nice day ;)

Jket

Jket
08-14-2007, 02:09 AM
Don't pigeon hole people. Human inconsistency is one of our most frustrating and beautiful traits. This kinda **** ****es me off.



You missed an option. C) Johnny calmly explains to Timmy that his language is unacceptable, and if it continues Johnny will engage in consequences X, Y, Z. Depending on the individual and my relationship I prefer anything from. X = I will not speak to you again in the future to Y = I will report your behavior to someone with some level of authority to Z = I will engage in some sort of violent behavior that will likely discourage you from further innappropriate behavior (in high school I tended to stab people with pens... it was wrong, but people rarely interacted with me negatively after the first couple of incidents.)

This is in my opinion the best option, and it rarely used by people. It affords the offending individual an opportunity to recant, or to understand what is going to happen. The most important thing about this option is that you be prepared to follow through. Also, as a point, this is the option that you have selected. If you had chosen to just tattle/rat you would have reported the individual specified for things that had already happened.



Personally, I would hope that Johnny lets Timmy know his options, and then if Timmy continues to behave innappropriately gets the **** kicked out of him. There's simply no excuse to continue to behave in an inappropriate manner once you've been told that it's unacceptable. You either move on and interact with different people who accept that type of behavior, or you accept the consequences of your actions.

Vox


I must say after reading this beautiful art-work I get a climpse of madness from you. Stabbing people with pens. Thats a good resolution to everyone's problems. :D . I say it should be option A from now on. Since your so smart and think you know everything. Nevermind lets just make it the only option.

Timmy calls Johnny a (Insert Cuss word here).

/Johnny stabs Timmy with pen.

Problem solved... Mature way out!
:confused:
Jket

Strakeln
08-14-2007, 08:33 AM
No using those words is stupid and that offends me you really cant be defending the use of such words. There is no reasonable place to use such language.According to you, at least. What you're presenting is not a response to my question, it's a restating of your opinion.

My grandfather used to have a saying: "Opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one." Not only is that quite an applicable statement here (being that we are in the realm of opinions), it's also an excellent counter to your last statement... that saying wouldn't have the same meaning without the language it uses.

I'm sorry dude, but "I think it's stupid and that is that" kinda underscores what I am saying... you don't even know why you have a problem with such words, you're just following what mom/dad/society told you to. Have you ever asked yourself why these words offend you?

Keep in mind that the original taboo of using curse words were that you might summon a demon, or establish a literal curse. I've used a swear word or two in my time, and not once have I seen a big red and black icon pop above my head. Nor have I managed to summon an efreeti. Yet.

Strakeln
08-14-2007, 09:34 AM
(Separate from my goings-on with Uska) A major problem with relying on the tattletale system is that it does not result in the reporting of undesirable actions. I'm guessing maybe 75% of any language-based reports sent to Turbine have nothing to do with actually being offended/concerned about the language being used. Instead, it is used as a weapon against others. As in, they wouldn't normally report someone for using foul language, but person X annoyed them so they decided to report them.

Here's an excellent example of how this system is abused:

I simply take a screen shot of what their typing, because apparently everyone that tramples on me are not intelligent enough to talk on a mic. I think they like to see the words they have expressed.

Anyhow, I just save them for when the day they really get under my skin I will then just piecemeal each saved message/screen shot, treating them each as seperate actions until the damage is done.
So as you can see, this person openly admits that he/she won't report someone, but will save evidence of prior misdeeds in order to hold some sort of power over that person. As in: "Don't screw with me or I'll get you banned". That is not the kind of power that Turbine wants customers to have over one another, yet it is the inevitable result of relying on the tattletale system to police your world.

Yajerman01
08-14-2007, 10:00 AM
(Separate from my goings-on with Uska) A major problem with relying on the tattletale system is that it does not result in the reporting of undesirable actions. I'm guessing maybe 75% of any language-based reports sent to Turbine have nothing to do with actually being offended/concerned about the language being used. Instead, it is used as a weapon against others. As in, they wouldn't normally report someone for using foul language, but person X annoyed them so they decided to report them.

Here's an excellent example of how this system is abused:

So as you can see, this person openly admits that he/she won't report someone, but will save evidence of prior misdeeds in order to hold some sort of power over that person. As in: "Don't screw with me or I'll get you banned". That is not the kind of power that Turbine wants customers to have over one another, yet it is the inevitable result of relying on the tattletale system to police your world.

You want to use my statement? Thank you!

It is certinaly not my desire to hold power over someone, (so do not contort my statement);

I reserve the right to hold "evidence" should the very same person report me. Get it?

I do not waive it over their head as the "dont screw with me"(as you have suggested), thats just childish. I archive it for if they decide to report me for some feckless action they feel was offensive. But then again - how would I know if that person reported me? Simple - dumb people like to brag and if it goes through the grapevine - I would simply send that person a tell, group with them and confront them or in general chat and ask them in a group if they reported me. (this is where the ego transcends, either they are man enough to admit it, or deny it in front of a group). If they deny it, then they deny it and I move on. Its a character issue that I want to know about that person.

There are a lot of undesireables on here, but I usually ignore them, its when I get slighted by them becasue they "felt" like they wanted to do it, "just for fun" and get me banned.

It's a world of hypocricy I live in, I retain the scorecard. As such, I disagree, its not abuse if you keep it in that context. And yes I would piece meal it to Turbine because turn about is fair play.

Strakeln
08-14-2007, 10:17 AM
You want to use my statement? Thank you!

It is certinaly not my desire to hold power over someone, (so do not contort my statement);

I reserve the right to hold "evidence" should the very same person report me. Get it?

I do not waive it over their head as the "dont screw with me"(as you have suggested), thats just childish. I archive it for if they decide to report me for some feckless action they feel was offensive. But then again - how would I know if that person reported me? Simple - dumb people like to brag and if it goes through the grapevine - I would simply send that person a tell, group with them and confront them or in general chat and ask them in a group if they reported me. (this is where the ego transcends, either they are man enough to admit it, or deny it in front of a group). If they deny it, then they deny it and I move on. Its a character issue that I want to know about that person.

There are a lot of undesireables on here, but I usually ignore them, its when I get slighted by them becasue they "felt" like they wanted to do it, "just for fun" and get me banned.

It's a world of hypocricy I live in, I retain the scorecard. As such, I disagree, its not abuse if you keep it in that context. And yes I would piece meal it to Turbine because turn about is fair play.I get your point, and I think it only serves to extend mine.

So what we have here is a person who is storing evidence - not for blackmail/powerbrokering purposes, but to defend and/or avenge someone else's abuse of the tattletale system. This is a much more reasonable use of such tactics, but meerly underscores the problem... hello? Turbine? People now feel they need to store evidence of other people's EULA violations to insulate/protect themselves from other people abusing your rules!

Sorry I misunderstood your original post.

Yajerman01
08-14-2007, 10:26 AM
I get your point, and I think it only serves to extend mine.

So what we have here is a person who is storing evidence - not for blackmail/powerbrokering purposes, but to defend and/or avenge someone else's abuse of the tattletale system. This is a much more reasonable use of such tactics, but meerly underscores the problem... hello? Turbine? People now feel they need to store evidence of other people's EULA violations to insulate/protect themselves from other people abusing your rules!

Sorry I misunderstood your original post.

I see your point and agree as well, its a flawed system; As you have put it, I am merely insulating/protecting myself because like all intelligent creatures we adapt to the niche we live in.

Aeneas
08-14-2007, 10:30 AM
Letting a curse word slip into general chat is something i myself am guilty of and don't think it deserves any kind of ban personally. Just because i hit backslash and missed the g key, or r key when responding to a friend, shouldn't mean i'm banned. Putting in a curse word filter isn't that hard, and making it something you can turn off or on would be fine by me. You can't ban somebody for their free expression when you've created a medium in the game that allows for a great deal of free expression. The game is meant to be immersive and as such people have a tendency to forget where they are. Chances are they let a bad word slip in the wrong chat channel and they weren't trying to offend you personally. Stop being so vain, the game isn't about you.

P.S. your kid has heard the words before if he's ever been outside or in earshot of your neighbors.

Yajerman01
08-14-2007, 10:31 AM
Letting a curse word slip into general chat is something i myself am guilty of and don't think it deserves any kind of ban personally. Just because i hit backslash and missed the g key, or r key when responding to a friend, shouldn't mean i'm banned. Putting in a curse word filter isn't that hard, and making it something you can turn off or on would be fine by me. You can't ban somebody for their free expression when you've created a medium in the game that allows for a great deal of free expression. The game is meant to be immersive and as such people have a tendency to forget where they are. Chances are they let a bad word slip in the wrong chat channel and they weren't trying to offend you personally. Stop being so vain, the game isn't about you.

P.S. your kid has heard the words before if he's ever been outside or in earshot of your neighbors.

yeah, why dont they just put a filter on? excellent point! They put it in your Bio/profile system right?

anden
08-14-2007, 07:50 PM
Filter awsome idea. i also hate running with girls/women in groups that ue mics. Turns the fellas all soft trying to get with someone they have never seen. Overzelous flirtation if you wanna talk dirty with one person in group guild or gerneral guess what we all get to through our 2cp in on it so don't be offended when someone else chimes in. dropping the F-bomb, racial slurs, being a flat jerk i will drop party.

Hexum
08-14-2007, 09:52 PM
What I never understood were those people that randomly join a pug and the first couple things that come out of their mouth are, "Man, I just f----d some s--t up out in Gianthold!", etc...

Language doesn't bother me, but knowing it does bother some in game, lets all have some respect for others. Typing is bad but when you're hearing this shouted in your ear for 40 minutes, its also annoying.

Aranticus
08-14-2007, 10:17 PM
Letting a curse word slip into general chat is something i myself am guilty of and don't think it deserves any kind of ban personally. Just because i hit backslash and missed the g key, or r key when responding to a friend, shouldn't mean i'm banned. Putting in a curse word filter isn't that hard, and making it something you can turn off or on would be fine by me. You can't ban somebody for their free expression when you've created a medium in the game that allows for a great deal of free expression. The game is meant to be immersive and as such people have a tendency to forget where they are. Chances are they let a bad word slip in the wrong chat channel and they weren't trying to offend you personally. Stop being so vain, the game isn't about you.

P.S. your kid has heard the words before if he's ever been outside or in earshot of your neighbors.

this is something very prevalent in todays culture. FREE EXPRESSION. many have used it to their defense when faced with some form of penalty. this is also the main gist of what Strakeln's posts are all about.

FREE expression =/= FREE to say anything YOU LIKE.

calling a person an idiot for no reason is an insult. curse and swear words also belong to that category. expression of such words/terms have no place in societies as they are not an ACCEPTABLE form of communication. people tolerate it but it does not mean that it is allowed.

now if the same person does a stupid act, ie drinks petrol and some one calls him/her an idiot, the situation is now different. the said person performed an idiotic act, again the act has to be accepted in the community as stupid/idiotic (note: a fire breather drinking petrol just before his act is not idiotic as he/she is trained for that act), then people gains the right to call him an idiot based on his display of an act of stupidity/idiocy.

in ddo context. we ticked on the box to agree to the EULA. we agreed voluntarily (no one forced us to do it, if you dun agree then you wouldnt be playing) that swear words, insults, etc do not have a place in this game. you waived your right of using such words and terms. you agreed that this "society" has no place for cursing and swearing. this is the fact. face it or leave it.

that said, i do agree that swear filters should be put in place to prevent mistakes from becoming bans. this serves to protect those who form their own communities ingame (ie guilds) which allows the expression of such terms. i'd also ask the GMs to place more discretion when handing out bans and suspensions. geninue mistakes deserves a chance for redemption. however, those that flout the rules consistently and delibrately should not be tolerated.

Vox
08-15-2007, 07:01 AM
I must say after reading this beautiful art-work I get a climpse of madness from you. Stabbing people with pens. Thats a good resolution to everyone's problems. :D . I say it should be option A from now on. Since your so smart and think you know everything. Nevermind lets just make it the only option.

Timmy calls Johnny a (Insert Cuss word here).

/Johnny stabs Timmy with pen.

Problem solved... Mature way out!
:confused:
Jket

*sigh* whatever bub, my point is that if people just dealt with each other on the level the world would be a nicer place. If the person who had a problem with your behavior had said something to that effect instead of reporting you, you could have responded by pointing out their hypocrisy to them, and things might have resolved easily. As it is, this whole situation blows. All in all, not my problem since I don't PvP, or use general chat ever. I think though my point has been made by someone else who argued that my solution was not workable due to people's inability to respond on the level. Human inconsistency runs rampant. There is no pigeon-holed way to decide how anyone will react in a situation, and that was my only issue with your original post.

Vox

Arj
08-15-2007, 08:29 AM
And here I was thinking general chat was censored all this time. I mean, the forums are censored, our bios are censored, the LFM is censored - but general chat isn't? Seriously Turbine, if the code already exists then why the hell not just apply it across all areas? Oops, forgot - consistency is not your strongpoint ;)

Oh, and sorry to all the kiddies I may have offended in the Lobster. All this time I thought I was just calling you ****s.

Qumil
08-15-2007, 10:09 AM
No using those words is stupid and that offends me you really cant be defending the use of such words. There is no reasonable place to use such language.


I think he is just stirring the pot here. I can't really recall him ever using any foul language. If he started now he had to have learned it from me!

Denzan you better watch your mouth or I will come back and kick your F#&*$%^ @#$!

Strakeln
08-15-2007, 10:57 AM
I think he is just stirring the pot here. I can't really recall him ever using any foul language. If he started now he had to have learned it from me!Nah, I was being mostly serious. I really do believe that most people who have problems with specific words have not once asked themselves why they have a problem with it. I'm also quite certain that relying on the tattletale system to police a world only results in abuse of the system. This case is a *perfect* example of such abuse.

CardaddictedSean
08-15-2007, 03:46 PM
I disaggree with the system as well. However like anything else in life I will use it to my advantage.

In this case I concluded I had absolutely no means to smack jket upside the head because he wasn't in front of me which would have been my recourse if we were in a pnp setting. So I figured the most physically noticable thing I could do was get his account banned for being an idiot.

I have said nor done anything to desserve the way you were verbally abusing me. Simply because you got dispelled and I attempted to kill your bard in a tavern does not constitute you taking your aggressions out on me in a hateful manner.

I don't think your a bad person or have anything personal against you. I just think your bitter towards me for whatever reason(probably somthing related with Nexx? I never bothered to ask, you never bothered to tell.)

Aevy almost made me feel guilty for what I had done to you, but then I came to find you had escariot's account banned in the past, so I suppose karma is a factor in this. Some day I hope you and I can come to terms and group again, but if it doesn't happen I don't really care either way.

Jket
08-15-2007, 05:04 PM
As did you have ihs account banned. However, what he did was far worse then what I did to you. He repeatidly sent me tells while he was intoxicated with random messages some offensive some just annoying. But hey I have grown to play with Escariot and learn his attitude.. As far as why i am bitter towards you, it has nothing to do with Nexx. She is simply a friend in the game i've known for a LONG time. Maybe the other thing i will tell you someother time and get your take on the matter.

Jket

Aranticus
08-15-2007, 07:35 PM
*sigh* whatever bub, my point is that if people just dealt with each other on the level the world would be a nicer place. If the person who had a problem with your behavior had said something to that effect instead of reporting you, you could have responded by pointing out their hypocrisy to them, and things might have resolved easily. As it is, this whole situation blows. All in all, not my problem since I don't PvP, or use general chat ever. I think though my point has been made by someone else who argued that my solution was not workable due to people's inability to respond on the level. Human inconsistency runs rampant. There is no pigeon-holed way to decide how anyone will react in a situation, and that was my only issue with your original post.

Vox

erm... correction. i did not say it was not workable but rather not workable in ALL situations. but then if we were looking at the context of this post, i have to agree that many players who are looking for trouble or to incite it is not going to respond to your method so in away..... you are right :D

Aranticus
08-15-2007, 08:02 PM
Nah, I was being mostly serious. I really do believe that most people who have problems with specific words have not once asked themselves why they have a problem with it. I'm also quite certain that relying on the tattletale system to police a world only results in abuse of the system. This case is a *perfect* example of such abuse.

such is the irony displayed here..... why ask others why they have a problem with it? why not ask yourself why you accepted it?

this is the MTV culture that i see so very often. stars, personalities cussing and swearing on TV lead the society to "think" that the kind of display is acceptable. truth is? its only tolerated and not accepted. and precisely some places are taking steps to prevent the degradation of the human society.

mansfield, louisanna has recently passed a law which bars people from wearing baggy loose pants that exposes the briefs/undergarment/thong/etc. offenders can be fined up to 150 (cant exactly remember the amount). is such a display of fashion "acceptable"? to most young adults, the answer probably would be yes, judging by how popular, eminen, 50cents, etc are. but to the rest? there is a fine line between offensive and distaste and also between acceptance and tolerance.....

Strakeln
08-15-2007, 11:08 PM
such is the irony displayed here..... why ask others why they have a problem with it? why not ask yourself why you accepted it?I know exactly why. Because at some point many years ago, I began to question pretty much everything I was ever told to accept as fact. On this topic, I recognized that curse words are nothing more than a collection of common sounds, organized in a way so that others can recognize the sounds as a word, which can then be used in the process of communication.


this is the MTV culture that i see so very often. stars, personalities cussing and swearing on TV lead the society to "think" that the kind of display is acceptable. truth is? its only tolerated and not accepted. and precisely some places are taking steps to prevent the degradation of the human society. That's quite a stretch. Ever work a blue collar job? There aren't a lot of MTV viewers in that world. Yet creative use of profanity is practically a job requirement. I hear there's a similar policy in the Navy ;)

I think you're taking my stance on swearing further than I do. I'm not saying people need to accept profanity. I'm also not saying they need to tolerate it. I'm simply saying that I don't understand what they're getting so upset about. I can understand being upset at intent behind the communication, but not at mere sight/sound of the words themselves.

A good way to sum up what I was trying to express: if you feel offended when watching George Carlin's "Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television," then I don't understand you.

Aranticus
08-16-2007, 12:52 AM
I know exactly why. Because at some point many years ago, I began to question pretty much everything I was ever told to accept as fact. On this topic, I recognized that curse words are nothing more than a collection of common sounds, organized in a way so that others can recognize the sounds as a word, which can then be used in the process of communication.

That's quite a stretch. Ever work a blue collar job? There aren't a lot of MTV viewers in that world. Yet creative use of profanity is practically a job requirement. I hear there's a similar policy in the Navy ;)

I think you're taking my stance on swearing further than I do. I'm not saying people need to accept profanity. I'm also not saying they need to tolerate it. I'm simply saying that I don't understand what they're getting so upset about. I can understand being upset at intent behind the communication, but not at mere sight/sound of the words themselves.

A good way to sum up what I was trying to express: if you feel offended when watching George Carlin's "Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television," then I don't understand you.

precisely! no one will ever get angry or upset with the words. its the intent. should i type out "i'm cant believe ^*^^&# stupid, i actually kept trying to heal the undead", likely that no one is going to report it. but if i use it as "omg why are you so ^*^^&# stupid, why cant you even cast a firewall?" then my intent is now different. its not that you do not understand it. its just that you only choose to focus your attention on the "communication" side of the word rather that the intent in the "communication" :cool:

jeffreyalsip
08-16-2007, 02:01 AM
Nah, I was being mostly serious. I really do believe that most people who have problems with specific words have not once asked themselves why they have a problem with it. I'm also quite certain that relying on the tattletale system to police a world only results in abuse of the system. This case is a *perfect* example of such abuse.

Profanity is profanity, and any reasonably intelligent person will know the difference between right and wrong. I notice that you seem to be able to arrange words into recognizable sentences, so I assume that you are (reasonably) intelligent....so I don't need to tell you what the "bad" words are. If you are not sure, ask your mother.

As far as the "tattletale system" , that you seem to hate so much, it works just fine. I know of one individual who angered an entire guild, with his posts on the forums, and was subjected to repeated and ongoing on-line harrassment from that (formerly significant) guilds members. It was eventually necessary for him to report this harrassment, which resulted in several of the perpetrators being suspended for a few days. He was able to show screen shots of the tells he received, and the gm's were more than happy to help him with the problem. That made me a believer in the system as it stands. Thankfully, the guilty guild has diminished to the point that they are now a mere shadow of what they once were (or, THOUGHT they were at least). The entire DDO universe is now a better place because these obnoxious few were finally put in their place...both by the actions of the gm's AND the courageous forum postings of this person I know.

The system works for the violated. Anyone who wants it changed is obviously a "violator" who wants more freedom to spread his hatred against anyone who he considers to be beneath him (and that is ALMOST everybody).

Strakeln
08-16-2007, 10:46 AM
Profanity is profanity, and any reasonably intelligent person will know the difference between right and wrong. I notice that you seem to be able to arrange words into recognizable sentences, so I assume that you are (reasonably) intelligent....so I don't need to tell you what the "bad" words are. If you are not sure, ask your mother.

As far as the "tattletale system" , that you seem to hate so much, it works just fine. I know of one individual who angered an entire guild, with his posts on the forums, and was subjected to repeated and ongoing on-line harrassment from that (formerly significant) guilds members. It was eventually necessary for him to report this harrassment, which resulted in several of the perpetrators being suspended for a few days. He was able to show screen shots of the tells he received, and the gm's were more than happy to help him with the problem. That made me a believer in the system as it stands. Thankfully, the guilty guild has diminished to the point that they are now a mere shadow of what they once were (or, THOUGHT they were at least). The entire DDO universe is now a better place because these obnoxious few were finally put in their place...both by the actions of the gm's AND the courageous forum postings of this person I know.

The system works for the violated. Anyone who wants it changed is obviously a "violator" who wants more freedom to spread his hatred against anyone who he considers to be beneath him (and that is ALMOST everybody).Wow, lookie here, someone got mad at me *and* learned how to use the search function! Goolan, we call such practices TROLLING. Keep going, you have a lot of posts to reply to.

Strakeln
08-16-2007, 10:48 AM
precisely! no one will ever get angry or upset with the words. its the intent. should i type out "i'm cant believe ^*^^&# stupid, i actually kept trying to heal the undead", likely that no one is going to report it. but if i use it as "omg why are you so ^*^^&# stupid, why cant you even cast a firewall?" then my intent is now different. its not that you do not understand it. its just that you only choose to focus your attention on the "communication" side of the word rather that the intent in the "communication" :cool:Right on. :)

Guildmaster_Kadish
08-16-2007, 12:16 PM
I know exactly why. Because at some point many years ago, I began to question pretty much everything I was ever told to accept as fact. On this topic, I recognized that curse words are nothing more than a collection of common sounds, organized in a way so that others can recognize the sounds as a word, which can then be used in the process of communication.

They are unacceptable because people don't accept them. Think on that for a few minutes.

Master Kadish

Strakeln
08-16-2007, 12:37 PM
They are unacceptable because people don't accept them. Think on that for a few minutes.Chicken and Egg! I say chicken... no, egg... wait, it was the chicken! Or was it the egg? :D

I get what you're saying... it's similar to the two types of laws: "malum prohibitum" (wrong because it is illegal - ex: speeding) and "malum in se" (wrong in itself - ex: murder). You're saying that because people don't accept profanity, it is wrong. I'm saying that there is nothing inherently wrong with swearing itself. While both arguments are correct, yours requires some flexibility: there are many settings where profanity is accepted, and therefore must not be wrong.

Guildmaster_Kadish
08-16-2007, 12:39 PM
Chicken and Egg! I say chicken... no, egg... wait, it was the chicken! Or was it the egg? :D

I get what you're saying... it's similar to the two types of laws: "malum prohibitum" (wrong because it is illegal - ex: speeding) and "malum in se" (wrong in itself - ex: murder). You're saying that because people don't accept profanity, it is wrong. I'm saying that there is nothing inherently wrong with swearing itself. While both arguments are correct, yours requires some flexibility: there are many settings where profanity is accepted, and therefore must not be wrong.

Fair enough; you've earned my respect. However, I will say that in an MMO where people of all different backgrounds and areas coexist, it is probably not wise to assume that profanity is accepted.

Master Kadish

Strakeln
08-16-2007, 12:53 PM
Fair enough; you've earned my respect. However, I will say that in an MMO where people of all different backgrounds and areas coexist, it is probably not wise to assume that profanity is accepted.No doubt. You won't see me typing profanity into general chat, at least not on purpose.

Aranticus
08-16-2007, 08:13 PM
No doubt. You won't see me typing profanity into general chat, at least not on purpose.

abstinence is still the best. just like AIDS. no point using protective methods, medicines, etc. there is still a chance of getting it if you practice promiscuity. if u abstain then there is no chance..... unless some idiot donated tainted blood and u happen to be the recipient :(

Kindoki
08-18-2007, 10:50 AM
The system works for the violated. Anyone who wants it changed is obviously a "violator" who wants more freedom to spread his hatred against anyone who he considers to be beneath him (and that is ALMOST everybody).

Yeah, I flat out disagree. I completely agree with Strakeln's statements, and I can count on probably 3 fingers, the number of times I typed (and probably two hands the times I have voiced) a curse in the past year and a half, and it certainly was never in anything other than guild chat - I hesitate to place myself in the "violator" category. As for tattle-taling, there's a fine line between appropriately calling in mommy/daddy and being a whiny tattle-tale. Too many people fail to find that line, and therefore the system is a failed system for it's intended purpose. Imho. :D