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sigtrent
08-11-2007, 03:54 PM
From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=117232)

PANZER KUNST a Lawful Good - Warforged – Wizard 3 / Monk 11
Requested By: Remo Jr
Presented By: Sigfried Trent

This was a build request from my “Request a Build” thread. He wanted a Wizard 3 / Monk 11 dual wielding character who is good in combat. I was given benchmarks of 48AC and +20 to hit. The request bids me to “use my imagination” for how the monk class will work. This is a tough assignment.

I began by looking up the PnP rules for WF in regards to the monk class. Apparently they are not considered armor using composite plating so that fixes a lot of potential problems. The wizard levels here seem to be for buffs and utility so I don’t need much Int. I don’t want to waste an equip spot on buffing it so I’ll go with 12 (You could start lower and use tomes/enhancements, but there isn’t a big advantage points wise).

Starting Statistics (32pts)
STR 14 – DEX 16 – CON 16 – INT 12 – WIS 12 – CHA 6

Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Extend Spell,

Skills: Balance 15, Concentration 15, Hide 14, Move Silently 14, Tumble 1, Repair 6, Jump 13

Enhancements: Inscribed Armor 1, Energy of the Scholar 1, Wand Mastery 1, Force Manipulation 1, Lineage of Force 1, Warforged Constitution 2, Monks Wisdom 2, Monk Dodge Enhancement 2, Extra Wholeness of Body 2, Monk Attack 1, Monk Damage 2, Monks Tactics Stunning 2, Monks Tactics Trip 2, Warforged Tactics 3

Memorized Spells: Shield, Magic Missile, Jump, Repair Light, Blur, Repair Moderate

Class Abilities: Flurry of Blows, Stunning Blow, Evasion, Fast Movement, Still Mind, Ki Strike, Slow Fall, Purity of Body, Improved Trip, Improved Evasion, Diamond Body, Greater Flurry

Leveling Guide
I am only including stats and feats as the order of skills and enhancements taken is not especially important.

1st Level: Monk
Skill Focus UMD : Balance 4, Concentration 4, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Tumble 1, Jump 3

2nd Level: Monk
Favored Enemy Undead : Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 2

3rd Level: Wizard
Weapon Finesse, Extend Spell : Concentration 1, Repair 2

4th Level: Monk
Dex +1 : Balance 2, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1

5th Level: Wizard
Concentration 1, Repair 2

6th Level: Monk
Weapon Focus Slashing : Balance 2, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1

7th Level: Wizard
Concentration 1, Repair 2

8th Level: Monk
Dex +1 : Balance 2, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1

9th Level: Monk
Dodge : Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 2

10th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 2

11th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 2

12th Level: Monk
Dex +1 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting : Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 1

13th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 1

14th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 1

Commentary
How TWF and Flurry of blows interact is anyone’s guess, but here is mine. I imagine since flurry doesn’t work with a shield and the animations will look cooler as TWF style, I think flurry will look like TWF and thus won’t work with TWF (even though it can in PnP). So either they get a special version of TWF, or they get something like it called flurry of blows. Never the less the user requested TWF specifically so it’s in the build and the numbers are crunched using TWF and flurry together.

Number Crunching
Projected Statistics (32pts)
STR 20 – DEX 26 – CON 24 – INT 12 – WIS 20 – CHA 6

Attack Profile (Dual Wielding +5 Kama)
Attack: Bab 9, Dex 8, Weapon 5, TWF -2, Weapon Focus 1, Monk Attack 1 = 22
Flurry: 21/21/21/24/24
Off hand: 21/24

Base Armor Class: Dex 8, Deflection 5, Barkskin potion 3, Docent 5, Composite Body 2, Wisdom 5, Shield Spell 4, Chaos Guard 2, Monk AC 2, Dodge 1, Dodge Enhancement 2 = 49

Hit Points: Around 230
Spell Points: 220-320

Fort Save: Excellent (20+)
Reflex Save: Excellent (20+)
Will Save: Excellent (20+)

I came out right around where the requester did. Divine power clickies for this character would be incredibly helpful adding another +5 to attack. I only beat his target by including a mythical dodge enhancement based on the paladin aura enhancement. Either way it’s a pretty good AC for TWF stance. Of course you have some great saves, improved evasion and a number of immunities. You can self heal in a number of ways. You to-hit is kind of weak but not terrible, and your number of attacks is high. Damage per hit isn’t all that great but neither is it terrible. You have some decent stun and trip chances, although not astounding ones. An off hand sneak attack or strategy weapon could help quite a bit if TWF and flurry work together in any way shape or form.

RemoJr
08-11-2007, 08:53 PM
From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=117232)

PANZER KUNST a Lawful Good - Warforged – Wizard 3 / Monk 11
Requested By: Remo Jr
Presented By: Sigfried Trent

This was a build request from my “Request a Build” thread. He wanted a Wizard 3 / Monk 11 dual wielding character who is good in combat. I was given benchmarks of 48AC and +20 to hit. The request bids me to “use my imagination” for how the monk class will work. This is a tough assignment.

I began by looking up the PnP rules for WF in regards to the monk class. Apparently they are not considered armor using composite plating so that fixes a lot of potential problems. The wizard levels here seem to be for buffs and utility so I don’t need much Int. I don’t want to waste an equip spot on buffing it so I’ll go with 12 (You could start lower and use tomes/enhancements, but there isn’t a big advantage points wise).

Starting Statistics (32pts)
STR 14 – DEX 16 – CON 16 – INT 12 – WIS 12 – CHA 6

Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Extend Spell,

Skills: Balance 15, Concentration 15, Hide 14, Move Silently 14, Tumble 1, Repair 6, Jump 13

Enhancements: Inscribed Armor 1, Energy of the Scholar 1, Wand Mastery 1, Force Manipulation 1, Lineage of Force 1, Warforged Constitution 2, Monks Wisdom 2, Monk Dodge Enhancement 2, Extra Wholeness of Body 2, Monk Attack 1, Monk Damage 2, Monks Tactics Stunning 2, Monks Tactics Trip 2, Warforged Tactics 3

Memorized Spells: Shield, Magic Missile, Jump, Repair Light, Blur, Repair Moderate

Class Abilities: Flurry of Blows, Stunning Blow, Evasion, Fast Movement, Still Mind, Ki Strike, Slow Fall, Purity of Body, Improved Trip, Improved Evasion, Diamond Body, Greater Flurry

Leveling Guide
I am only including stats and feats as the order of skills and enhancements taken is not especially important.

1st Level: Monk
Two Weapon Fighting : Balance 4, Concentration 4, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Tumble 1, Jump 3

2nd Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 2

3rd Level: Wizard
Weapon Finesse, Extend Spell : Concentration 1, Repair 2

4th Level: Monk
Dex +1 : Balance 2, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1

5th Level: Wizard
Concentration 1, Repair 2

6th Level: Monk
Weapon Focus Slashing : Balance 2, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1

7th Level: Wizard
Concentration 1, Repair 2

8th Level: Monk
Dex +1 : Balance 2, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1

9th Level: Monk
Dodge : Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 2

10th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 2

11th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 2

12th Level: Monk
Dex +1 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting : Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 1

13th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 1

14th Level: Monk
Balance 1, Concentration 1, Hide 1, Move Silently 1, Jump 1

Commentary
How TWF and Flurry of blows interact is anyone’s guess, but here is mine. I imagine since flurry doesn’t work with a shield and the animations will look cooler as TWF style, I think flurry will look like TWF and thus won’t work with TWF (even though it can in PnP). So either they get a special version of TWF, or they get something like it called flurry of blows. Never the less the user requested TWF specifically so it’s in the build and the numbers are crunched using TWF and flurry together.

Number Crunching
Projected Statistics (32pts)
STR 20 – DEX 26 – CON 24 – INT 12 – WIS 20 – CHA 6

Attack Profile (Dual Wielding +5 Kama)
Attack: Bab 10, Dex 8, Weapon 5, TWF -2, Weapon Focus 1, Monk Attack 1, gtr. heroism 4 = 27
Flurry: 27/27/27/27/32/32
Off hand: 27/32
With Divine power: 31/31/31/31/35/35, 31/35

Base Armor Class: Dex 8, Deflection 5, Barkskin potion 3, Docent 5, Composite Body 2, Wisdom 5, Shield Spell 4, Chaos Guard 2, Monk AC 2, Dodge 1, Dodge Enhancement 2, Invaders Ring 2, Chattering Ring 3= 54

Hit Points: Around 230
Spell Points: 220-320

Fort Save: Excellent (20+)
Reflex Save: Excellent (20+)
Will Save: Excellent (20+)

I came out right around where the requester did. Divine power clickies for this character would be incredibly helpful adding another +5 to attack. I only beat his target by including a mythical dodge enhancement based on the paladin aura enhancement. Either way it’s a pretty good AC for TWF stance. Of course you have some great saves, improved evasion and a number of immunities. You can self heal in a number of ways. You to-hit is kind of weak but not terrible, and your number of attacks is high. Damage per hit isn’t all that great but neither is it terrible. You have some decent stun and trip chances, although not astounding ones. An off hand sneak attack or strategy weapon could help quite a bit if TWF and flurry work together in any way shape or form.

I liked most of it. i had to make a few minor adjustments. It was mostly the attacks, AC, feats, and name. Check out the new attacks and AC. You said it was a 13 wiz/ 1 monk and seemd to have given it a few feats it doesn't get, like favored enemies. Other then that it's good.
It gave me some things I hadn't thought of before, which i combined with my own findings to make the build better. Come on monks! :)
oh, and i checked the FAQ section of the official DnD site, they explained that TWF does work with flurry of blows. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a hit the 3.5 FAQ and go under monks. you'll find the question on monks and dual-weilding.

RemoJr
08-11-2007, 11:19 PM
hmm, now that I think about it, i guess AC could be higher if i do this:

Base Armor Class: Dex 8, Deflection 5, Barkskin spell 5, Docent 5, Composite Body 2, Wisdom 5, Shield Spell 4, Chaos Guard 2, Monk AC 2, Dodge 1, Dodge Enhancement 2, Invaders Ring 2, Chattering Ring 3, paladin aura 4, haste 1, blocking 2= 63

sigtrent
08-11-2007, 11:41 PM
I liked most of it. i had to make a few minor adjustments. It was mostly the attacks, AC, feats, and name. Check out the new attacks and AC. You said it was a 13 wiz/ 1 monk and seemd to have given it a few feats it doesn't get, like favored enemies. Other then that it's good.


Whoops, got some copy and paste errors in there! Sorry about that!

sigtrent
08-11-2007, 11:46 PM
oh, and i checked the FAQ section of the official DnD site, they explained that TWF does work with flurry of blows. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a hit the 3.5 FAQ and go under monks. you'll find the question on monks and dual-weilding.

It explicitly says they can actualy.


The rules don’t come right out and say that a monk can’t
use an unarmed strike for an off-hand strike (although the exact
wording of the unarmed strike ability suggests otherwise), and
no compelling reason why a monk could not do so exists.


To add an off-hand attack to a flurry of blows, stack
whatever two-weapon penalty the monk has with the penalty (if
any) from the flurry. Attacks from the flurry have the monk’s
full damage bonus from Strength, but the off-hand attack gains
only half Strength bonus to damage.

But I doubt DDO will impliment it that way.

sigtrent
08-11-2007, 11:59 PM
Base Armor Class: Dex 8, Deflection 5, Barkskin spell 5, Docent 5, Composite Body 2, Wisdom 5, Shield Spell 4, Chaos Guard 2, Monk AC 2, Dodge 1, Dodge Enhancement 2, Invaders Ring 2, Chattering Ring 3, paladin aura 4, haste 1, blocking 2= 63

I'm not an expert on all the rings, but I'm pretty sure the Invaders ring is a Natural Armor Bonus, so it doesnt stack wtih the Barkskin. I'm not sure what the Chattering Ring does in terms of what kind of bonus it is, but I think its dodge so it would stack. I didn't include it in my list since I don't know much about it.

I didn't think the build would really work (because I though Composite counted as light armor) when I started but as I did the research on it it looked pretty decent and I was impressed with the AC total at the end. You could eek out another point of dex and wis with +2 tomes and +6 items etc.. but I usualy like to make the builds with somewhat modest item assumptions.

I appreciate the request, I'm looking at WF monks in a new light. I think a Monk Cleric might be a better multi class monk in general (due to wisdom synergy and Divine Power), but we shall see where the rules fall.

One thing I hadn't though about untill I was trying to think of enhancements is that they will likely have the tactics enhancemetns for the built in feats they get, and that paired nicely with the WF one.

RemoJr
08-12-2007, 07:32 AM
your right, invader's ring doesn't stack with barkskin. The cathering rind is a dodge bonus, which always atacks with other dodge bonuses.

unfiguroutable
10-18-2008, 07:57 PM
why take UMD feat at level 1, or at all for that matter?

MrCow
10-18-2008, 09:07 PM
why take UMD feat at level 1, or at all for that matter?

In post #4 it is stated that it is are copy and paste errors. That might be one of them.