PDA

View Full Version : Building Caracters in DDO is tough...



Akerue
08-09-2007, 03:18 PM
It is a little unforgiving and by far the best of any game I have played. That being said, I was wondering if there is any saving this build. I don't remember what I took when. I can only present what I have and seek suggestions for improvements. I am not uber wealthy, most of the good gear is on loan from friends who are taking a break.

Akerue Draaggar
Neutral Good 28pt Elf

10 Ranger/2 Rogue/2 Fighter

BASE STATS when Naked and with stat gear:Naked(with gear): Stat Gear:
STR: 18(22) +4 STR Ring
DEX: 25(30) +5 DEX Gloves
CON: 8(12) +4 CON Ring
INT: 14(19) +5 INT Hat (When Disabling or Searching)
WIS: 13(16) +3 WIS Hat (wear regular)
CHA: 8(13) +5 CHA Cloak(When selling or buying from vendors)

Hit Points: 149(197)
Spell Points: 101(139)
AC:18(29)
Fort: +9(14)
Reflex: +17(23)
Will: +6(11)
BAB: +13

SKILLS(only once I have put points in):
Naked(With Gear, no buffs)
Balance: 9(17)
Disable Device: 19(34)
Haggle: 5(17)
Hide: 16(19)
Listen: 12(19)
Move Silently: 17(20)
Open Locks: 24(36)
Search: 21(34)
Spot: 20(35)
Tumble: 11(14)

Feats(not sure which I chose so am listing them all):
Attack
Bow Strength
Defensive Fighting
Dodge
Draconic Vitality
Elven Keen Senses
Enchantment Save Bonus
Evasion(ranger)
Evasion(Rogue)
Favored Enemy: Giant, Human, Undead
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Heroic Durability
Immune to Sleep
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Wild Empathy
Iron Will
Light Armor Proficiency
ManyShot
Martial Weapon Proficiency
Medium Armor Proficiency
Mobility
Point Bland Shot
Rapid Shot
Shield Proficiency (General)
Shot on the Run
Simple Weapon Proficiency
Sneak
Sneak Attack
Sunder
Toughness
Tower Shield Proficiency
Trapfinding
Trip
Two Weapon Fighting
Wild Empathy

Spells:
Lvl1 Jump and Resist Energy
Lvl2 Barkskin and Protection from Energy


Enhancements:
Fighter Haste Boost I
Ranger Skill Boost III
Ranger Sprint Boost I
Elven Dex II
Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Elven Melee Attack II (Longsword and Rapier)
Elven Melee Damage II (Longsword and Rapier)
Elven Ranged Attack II
Elven Ranged Damage II
Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Fighter Item Defense I
Ranger Dex III
Fighter Strength I
Fighter Toughness I

I recently switched to Robes from a +4 Mithril Chain Shirt.

Robes I switch out:
Fearsome Robe of Invulnerability
Fireguard Robe of SR(19)
Deathblock Robe of Invulnerability
+5 Armored Bracers
+3 Protection Cloak

Weapons I use normally:+3 Shocking Burst Longsword of Righteousness (Gives me a +22 on Primary Hand)
+5 Seeker(+2) Dagger of Righteousness (Gives me a +22 on Secondary Hand)
OR
+1 Paralyzing Shortsword (Gives me a +18 on Primary Hand)
+5 Seeker(+2) Dagger of Righteousness (Gives me a +22 on Secondary Hand)
OR
+5 Thundering Heavy Mace (Gives me a +22 on Primary Hand)
+5 Light Mace of Pure Good (Gives me a +22 on Secondary Hand)

I also have a +1 vorpal Scimitar of Righteousness and a +1 Vorpal Battle Axe of Pure Good, but I don't find I can kill much with them.

Bows I use when needed:
+1 Paralyzing Longbow
+1 Banishing Longbow
+1 Shortbow of Disruption
+1 Shortbow of Smiting

+3 Longbow of Greater Monstrous Humanoid Bane
+2 Thundering Shortbow of Greater Giant Bane
+3 Ghost Touched Longbow of Pure Good
+3 Transmuting Shortbow

+1 Flaming Burst Longbow of Backstabbing(+4) (used for first shot typically with manyshot)
+5 Acid Longbow
+1 CurseSpewing Longbow of Precision

This is my first character and I haven't really played any other classes very high. I find myself weak in soloing. I can't do the Shadow tomb quests on normal solo. I can barely, and I mean barely handle redwillows ruins on elite solo. LVL 7 hard is about my upper limit. I feel Like I need some crowd control, so I stick to the paralyzing gear to allow me to beat on only one at a time.

I feel bad for the Cleric in groups. when it comes to fighting, I sometimes in the top 2 in kills, but I attribute that to my backstabbing. OTOH, I feel very squishy. I feel like the Clerics are always having to heal me and REZ me. I carry 90-100 CSW pots and the same number of CLW pots. I carry 3 CSW and 3 CLW Wands as well. I use these wands and pots a lot. I also seem to die, what seems to me as, quite a bit.

I don't really want to retire this guy, but he seems to be lacking. I know Improved Precise shot will make a difference, but I need another ranger Level for that and will at the next cap increase. I have found myself recently just focusing on paralyzing things. I try to paralyze the mobs coming up to the fighters. Cycling through them paralyzing as I go.

Any suggestions for making him:
1. less squishy
2. More of a killing machine

And any tips for playing this build? How should I handle combat? Wait for the tanks and run in swinging? Hang back with the casters and sling arrows? Not sure what to do.

Thanks for any help.

Impaqt
08-09-2007, 03:35 PM
A Constitution of 8 is never a good thing for a melee Character...... I'm not so sure theres much you can do to beef him up short of taking another TOughness feat or 2..... Try to get your hands on a +5 COn item and a Con Tome perhaps for 14 more.... Lets see...

20 Heroic Durability
80 L10 Ranger
20 L2 Fighter
12 L2 Rogue
16 Toughness
5 Toughness ENH
14 CON ADJ (With +4 Item)
----
167
30 Greater False Life
---
197
14 (Get COn up to 14)
16 Second Toughness Feat
-----
227

Aid Pots, False Life Clicky, Greater Heroism, Divine Power.... Get yer hands on these and use em often to boost temporary Hit points.

Next is AC.. Its pretty Low and you should be able to shore it up way beyond 29.....

10 Base
8 +4 Mithral Chain Shirt
6 Dex Bonus
2 Invaders Ring
1 Dodge Feat
3 Protection Item
----
30 Standing This should be easy to get to.
2 Barkskin Spell
4 Sheild Clicky
1 Haste
---
37 AC Self Buffed.. Easy
2 Beter Protection Item(+5)
2 Recitation (Clerics should always be casting this)

41 Is not out of the the question..... that equates to getting hit up to 55% less than you are right now :eek:

CSFurious
08-09-2007, 03:37 PM
i think it is clear that your main problem is hitpoints

i just rolled a ranger & the first feat i took was toughness & then 2 levels of fighter for the extra hitpoints

additionally, even though i started with 11 con (those damn drow), i just used a +1 con tome, and with my false life item i already have 72 hitpoints at level 4, i do not even have a con item yet to wear

additionally, i will probably put ability points into con at level 8 & maybe even later, that is how important i consider hitpoints now in this game

just to show you, my level 14 drow sor started with 12 con & with items has 138 hp's before buffs, & when i get my +2 favor tome, i am thinking of going with con because her chr is already 32, that is how important i think hp's are for the current end-game

anyway, i think you are seeing the problem with being a damage dealer who does not have over 200 hitpoints at level 14, & that might even be low

you need to take another toughnes feat, and then take more levels of fighter at the expense of future ranger abilities for the extra hp's

good luck

Impaqt
08-09-2007, 03:40 PM
i think it is clear that your main problem is hitpoints
you need to take toughness as a feat, and then take the fighter toughness enhancement

good luck

Hes got one TOughness Feat already :eek: and Fighter TOughness I

CSFurious
08-09-2007, 03:42 PM
i missed that:eek:

edited

good luck


Hes got one TOughness Feat already :eek: and Fighter TOughness I

Strakeln
08-09-2007, 03:51 PM
Hmmm. Seems okay to me. I know everyone so far has (and everyone after me will) tell you your HP is too low, but my ranger runs around with about 50 less than yours does, and she has no problem. No doubt, she is squishy when compared to traditional tanks, but I designed her to have juuuust enough HP to last through one long fight, then heal herself back up. Oh, I also designed her to kill things *really* fast.

Is your AC really low? You should be well into the 40's, at least.

I'm going to have to suggest playstyle. When I solo, if I run into an enemy than can give me a hard time, I whip out the bow. The other 90% of the time I'm TWFing with the shield spell on, so my AC is still 45+. Why TWF? Because I kill whatever is in front of me more than twice as fast. At a cost of only 3 AC.

Of course, you can always just rely on the bow and big circles. Given enough time, that is sufficient strategy for almost any mob.

Really, I can't see anything wrong with your build. I suggest running around with a "legendary" ranger from your server and observing what they're doing.

Akerue
08-09-2007, 03:54 PM
Thank you so much for the replies. It may sound odd, but I am glad to hear I am squsihy. Not that I like getting killed and wasting Cleric resources, but that I just felt I was squishy if that makes any sense.

I will play around with my AC some, trying the Protection item with the Armor. I was never really sure how many hit points was average for a ranger type build. I will look at boosting my con it has been in the back of my mind, but will make it a priority.

Akerue
08-09-2007, 04:01 PM
Hmmm. Seems okay to me. I know everyone so far has (and everyone after me will) tell you your HP is too low, but my ranger runs around with about 50 less than yours does, and she has no problem. No doubt, she is squishy when compared to traditional tanks, but I designed her to have juuuust enough HP to last through one long fight, then heal herself back up. Oh, I also designed her to kill things *really* fast.

Is your AC really low? You should be well into the 40's, at least.

I'm going to have to suggest playstyle. When I solo, if I run into an enemy than can give me a hard time, I whip out the bow. The other 90% of the time I'm TWFing with the shield spell on, so my AC is still 45+. Why TWF? Because I kill whatever is in front of me more than twice as fast. At a cost of only 3 AC.

Of course, you can always just rely on the bow and big circles. Given enough time, that is sufficient strategy for almost any mob.

Really, I can't see anything wrong with your build. I suggest running around with a "legendary" ranger from your server and observing what they're doing.


Yes, My AC is that low. I don't think I have been buffing nearly enough. I just checked how I would typically buff myself and found that I am at 33 most of the time unless someone else throws something on me. I will work on getting that up more.

Jaysensen
08-09-2007, 04:27 PM
I would say that the hardest place to improve is probably playstyle/knowledge. Both of which come with time and learning your character.

Do you tend to melee more or range more? Each combat style is different and almost requires learning to play all over again.

I think upgrading your gear will make learning the limits of your character a lot easier. Better gear, better performance.

Gear
First, I would suggest trading away one or two of those weapons for +5/6 STR/DEX/CON and least importantly WIS. Whatever puts you at even numbers. Banishing and Smiting are pretty bad on Bows because of 1) the low crit range 2) the save even after you roll a crit and confirm.

Neither Vorpal is an appropriate offhand weapon. Try to swap one for a light Vorpal weapon: Sickle, Handaxe, Kukri. The reason for this is because to Vorpal, you need a 20 PLUS you need to roll a crit confirmation. Low Attack means you never confirm against high AC targets.

Get Heavy Fort ASAP.

Look for a high plus Resistance item for your saves.

Feats
Your Will save is not at a point where it really matters. Right now Iron Will does very little for you. Perhaps with a +4/5 Resist Item and +6 WIS item, it will be worth it. But for right now, maybe you can swap that out.

You have the SOTR line. At your attack, I would consider it very important to your build (though I hate archery personally) if you shoot things most of the time. If you rarely shoot, maybe swap these out.

Staying alive
I would recommend letting someone else charge in first, and you coming in second. Avoid sight aggro. Never pull with your bow. This helps your Sneak Damage, and should hopefully reduce damage you take. Even if you deal out less kill count. A dead Ranger deals no damage!


I think any player (self included) can always learn to play his or her character better. Especially Rangers, where the potential is almost unlimited. Few classes (espeically with your level split ^^) have the utility and flexibility as a Ranger.

Blazer
08-09-2007, 04:55 PM
Everyone else commented on the squishy thing, so I'm going to go here instead:


Any suggestions for making him:

2. More of a killing machine

A review of your feat list and stat distribution shows you are at 22 STR and 30 DEX, yet you have no Weapon Finesse feat. That's a +4 difference to hit when using finessable weapons, which is like an innate Greater Heroism. However, looking at your melee weapon sets, you like to use non-finessable weapons, such as longsword and heavy mace. Using these weapons means your to-hit is based off your STR which in your case is low for a straight-up melee.

To further elaborate, try and imagine a fighter/paladin/barbarian trying to kill stuff with only a 22 STR. They can't really hit things, and neither can you with that STR score. Utilize that high DEX and pick up the Weapon Finesse feat. Limits your weapon selection a bit, but if you couple that with the Power Attack feat, your damage is going to be very nice while GTWF. It will add +5 to each weapon for damage, so that's +35 damage per chain of attacks. Yummy. ;)

You also have no Improved Critical feats. Improved Critical is THE DPS feat to take. Let me phrase that differently: Improved Critical = Improved DPS. Take the ones that apply to the weapons you use most, be it slashing, piercing, ranged.

Jaysensen makes a good point regarding your playstyle. If you like to range more, well, you're just going to have to deal with the fact that you're never going to be a DPS machine other than the 20 seconds that Many Shot is on. If you chose to switch to TWF more often, however, I strongly recommend picking up Weapon Finesse, Power Attack, and at least one Improved Critical feat (if not 2).

My ranger primarily TWF and while he's not unhealthy at 220 HP, he's no front line tank either. There is a knack to playing a ranger melee (non-dwarf), since they tend to not have the 300+ hp you'll see from fighters/paladins or the 400+ hp from barbarians. Find the guy who is holding aggro best, either via DPS or via Intimidate and stick to his hip. By the time he's done with his 4 attacks and you're done with your 7, that mob is going to be dead.

Hope this helps and best of luck.

sigtrent
08-09-2007, 05:31 PM
Not a bad character really....

#1: Use rapies in melee. They are very strong weapons, and you can finesse them (take weapon finesse). This will up your damage and your attack bonus. Try to find an off hand weapon with a +5 sneak attack bonus (only for use when in a party)

#2: I think the Shot on The Run line is a waste. I would re-spec those for Finesse, Weapon Focus, and Toughness. Improved crit if you can get it. (depends on when you took the feats you are swapping)

Solo wise you have to use some strategy. You just can't stand toe to toe and kick but with a character like this at high level. It's a team character. You will have trouble with any situation where you are figting multiple monsters at the same time.

Strakeln
08-09-2007, 06:06 PM
Ah! I missed what the two posters above were talking about. Yeah, weapon finesse will help. Also, I don't see an improved crit feat - that's a really sweet feat to have. Sigtrent recommended dropping shot on the run, which I completely agree with - it's just not needed. Although I would recommend an improved crit feat over weapon focus... with a 30 dex and weapon finesse, weapon focus becomes unnecessary.

Zyklon
08-09-2007, 06:21 PM
You got a nice selection of bows. Just stay ranged and don't worry about kill counts. Get a high striding item and heavy fort item. Just keep moving since you have Shot on the Run. A lot of creatures range you if you range them (You can move left/right and avoid arrows/spears, etc...) - if they run up to you then paralyze them. I would swap out feats and get Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot (expensive but worth it with a ranged paralyzer).

-

Strakeln
08-09-2007, 11:24 PM
I would swap out feats and get Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot (expensive but worth it with a ranged paralyzer).Just remember that both of these feats are free with your next level of ranger.

Riekan
08-10-2007, 07:29 AM
Not only that, but it looks like you also took Greater Two-weapon fighting. You will get this for free at Ranger 11, so I'd be ready to swap it out before you level to 11 Ranger at the cap raise. Also, I would definately take Ranger 11 next. Not only do you get 3 great feats for free, but you also get 30 point resists, which will help you feel not quite so squishy...

Akerue
08-10-2007, 11:32 AM
Thanks again, All very good suggestions and they make a lot of sense.

I am not really set on any one play style, I tend to switch to what seems to be working. If I have a good strong tank who is pulling in all the agro, I will wait for him to get it and then join in the melee. When we have an arcane doing most of the killing, I will tend to follow whatever they are doing, if it is all firewalls, I will try to steal agro from them with manyshot and run the mob back and forth through the firewall. If it is mostly stat damage, I will range them with a single shot and see If I damage them, if I can and it seems I can kill them before they get to me I will unload with the arrows.

I agree Iron Will does seem to be a waste. I am working on a Pally and looked at it, but didn't seriously consider it. I should swap that off this guy. I can see now that my feats are a little all over the place. I will try to narrow that down.

I try to watch other rangers in what they are doing, but I find myself in many groups where I am the only ranger, or can't join a group because they already have "the" ranger needed for the group. Not complaining, just commenting.

Lastly, I will most definitely take Ranger for lvl 15, Improved Precise Shot and 30 resists look really nice. I often regret not taking 11Ranger instead of fighter.