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Blind_Skwerl
08-08-2007, 05:55 AM
I have noticed a lot of dps talk mentioning the Sword of Shadows. Is that the best there is atm? What am I missing that makes it so good?

rimble
08-08-2007, 09:07 AM
I have noticed a lot of dps talk mentioning the Sword of Shadows. Is that the best there is atm? What am I missing that makes it so good?

Regular Greatsword: 2d6, 19-20 crit range, x2 crit multiplier
SoS: 2d6, 18-20 crit range, x3 crit multiplier

Bumping the crit range is already a huge benefit, because now Improved Critical will take that to 15-20. In the hands of a 14th level Barbarian that's 13-20 crit range, with a x3 crit multiplier.

The crit range of a Rapier, the base damage of a Greatsword, and the crit multiplier of a Greataxe.

Beherit_Baphomar
08-08-2007, 09:12 AM
Made out of adamantine to boot!

*drool*

SoS........one day, my precious, one day.....

rimble
08-08-2007, 09:17 AM
Oh yeah, and Carniflex from Delera's suffers from this problem a little bit too...though not nearly as bad...it's 19-20 crit range, and Keen...so 17-20...and useable at level 4! 17-20, x3 at level 4 is pretty horrible. Silver Longbow is another...

Harbinder
08-08-2007, 09:20 AM
Ayye, I lost a roll for it the other day to a barbarian. :(

So I guess Cloudburst will have to suffice until I win my SoS. *sigh*

+5 Greatsword
Shocking Burst
Cloudbust

Beherit_Baphomar
08-08-2007, 09:21 AM
Oh yeah, and Carniflex from Delera's suffers from this problem a little bit too...though not nearly as bad...it's 19-20 crit range, and Keen...so 17-20...and useable at level 4! 17-20, x3 at level 4 is pretty horrible. Silver Longbow is another...

I have ran Deleras 15 times looking for Carnifex. Got it on my Rogue/Paladin, go the Cartouche on my barb...mebbe I run it again tonight on my barb. Its a matter of principle now....

Cupcake
08-08-2007, 10:09 AM
I started Deleras on my baby Barb. She's lvl 4. Held her own pretty well with a party of 3-6's. We decided to hold off on the Necro.

I'd like to get carniflex.

Thrudh
08-08-2007, 01:33 PM
Picked up a +1 seeker (+10) falchion the other day off the AH...

It seems like this weapon should hit pretty darn hard... SOS is still better, but for a melee type without SOS or a Bloodstone, would this come in better than say a +5 Holy Greataxe? Can someone do the math?

+1 Seeker +10 falchion
Crits on a 15-20
2x on a crit
+20 damage from seeker on a crit


+5 Holy Greataxe
Crits on a 19-20
3x on a crit

Now I'm thinking the +5 Holy GreatAxe is still better... +11 extra damage on EVERY hit (+4 from difference in plus, assuming average of 7 for 2d6 from holy), but the falchion crits 2.5x times as much, and that seeker bonus (x2) gets added to crit...

What's the link to that weapon comparison web program?? Does it calculate seeker bonuses correctly?

D'rin
08-08-2007, 01:42 PM
I just got carniflex on my 8th lvl barb. Dang that is one nice weapon. I figure that will be my primary until I get the SOS or maybe cloudburst. In the hands of a dwarf you are looking at a +4 great axe with a crit range of 15-20 are 14th lvl.
There is nothing like running around sorrowdusk one shotting ogres.

Shade
08-08-2007, 03:47 PM
Really greater banes edge out the SoS in dps in the end game.

When your killing stuff so fast you don't even need crits, its better to just have more consistant damage.

So +3 or better greater bane, esp with dwarven axe dmg/attack does out DPS a Sword of shadows.

One like a +5 adamantine greater giant bane greataxe of maiming, rr dwarf would probably be best. Equiv to a +11 axe in the hands of a dwarf, and still crits often at 17-20 x3, with massive dmg +bane/maim dmg.
SoS can max crit around 200 with pwr attack 3, bard buffs, bloodstone.
Good greate banes getting you over 250 with all the mods.

Then if you consider some targets have light/mod/heavy fort, the greate bane becomes far superior. Againts undeads there no comparison.

Casta
08-08-2007, 04:10 PM
I want to see a greataxe like the sos from the new raid coming out soon, 19-20 crit x4 crit damage. The dwarves are missing out all the 2 handers from raids are greatswords.

Sojourner
08-08-2007, 04:53 PM
I want to see a greataxe like the sos from the new raid coming out soon, 19-20 crit x4 crit damage. The dwarves are missing out all the 2 handers from raids are greatswords.

There was a dev post awhile back about mobs with Fortification and mention of items that could reduce someone's fortification.

Would be kind of funny to see a 19-20/x4 great axe come out, but all of the new mobs are wearing heavy fort and wielding weapons that cut through player fortification.

I think the dev's have caught on to the idea that we started with items that were too powerful, and just making each new mod have more powerful weapons is not the way to go. I think these new round of weapon effects (maiming, shattermantle, everbright, etc) are a result of the dev's trying to bring out new gear for everyone to play with, without having to bring out items that even more overpowering.






Picked up a +1 seeker (+10) falchion the other day off the AH...

It seems like this weapon should hit pretty darn hard... SOS is still better, but for a melee type without SOS or a Bloodstone, would this come in better than say a +5 Holy Greataxe? Can someone do the math?

+1 Seeker +10 falchion
Crits on a 15-20
2x on a crit
+20 damage from seeker on a crit


+5 Holy Greataxe
Crits on a 19-20
3x on a crit



Here's a program (http://afterlifeguild.org/Thott/ddo) that does calculations that seems to be pretty decent as long as you don't need many of the new enhancements.

Here's a spreadsheet (http://theband.kicks-ass.org/damage/Weapons.xls) that I use to calculate damage. Takes all the new stuff into account, but not quite as easy to use as the other page and doesn't give an option for weapon speeds.

Assuming you're level 14, have STR:38, Power Attack, and Critical Rage II - fighting Gianthold mobs with an AC of 40ish, and mobs that take full damage from the Holy on the axe, I get the following for HP damage / Round:


Unbuffed Buffed
Falchion 151.33 185.37
GreatAxe 169.58 219.45

Jaysensen
08-08-2007, 06:31 PM
One like a +5 adamantine greater giant bane greataxe of maiming, rr dwarf would probably be best.

Isnt that a double suffix?

Since Maiming takes the place of Greater Bane, I always considered it a "junk" mod. What is better, Maiming or PG?

GramercyRiff
08-09-2007, 12:44 AM
The crit range of a Rapier, the base damage of a Greatsword, and the crit multiplier of a Greataxe.

It's the Falchion it's imitating (which does have the same threat range). The Falchion is a 2 hander though, so the SoS is the combination of the Falchion, GS, and GA.


Isnt that a double suffix?

Since Maiming takes the place of Greater Bane, I always considered it a "junk" mod. What is better, Maiming or PG?

You're right. Greater Bane is a suffix. So that weapon cannot exist. Would be nice if it could. Maiming is only good for weapons that crit x3 or x4. A Maiming Scythe would be quite good in a Barb's hands. Add some Burst to that and you got an insane dps weapon right there. Now if Scythes would ever show up...

SoS is nice for sure. It's actually way too good. It's not necessary for a barbarian to have one to kill stuff with amazing speed though.

Like Shade stated, greater banes are really the best dps you can get. For non critable targets, undead, elementals, and non WF constructs this is a no brainer. Shade is also right that you can hit over 250 with some good greater banes, with the ole Bard's help of course. The Bard is the Barbarian's best friend.

Greater banes aren't necessary though. You can pump out some incredible dps with other weapons. The higher the bonus to hit and damage though...the more damage you will deal; the more damage fuels the bigger crits. It's all about fueling the crits right now. If we ever see heavy fort on mobs, greater banes will be even better.

Shade
08-09-2007, 07:26 AM
There was a dev post awhile back about mobs with Fortification and mention of items that could reduce someone's fortification.


Yea that could be sweet.

+2 greataxe of fortification rending.. -25% to targets fortification while wielding this weapon. Would rock heavy fort targets.. But vs some WF with 125% fort... It wouldn't help hehe.

Very powerful, would be a nice raid item for mod 5.

And pls dont post ur dumb spreadsheets here, keep them in the gneeral forum. Falchions are not allowed in this forum, much less numbers saying there even close to greataxes, pfft, no real barb would be caught dead with a falchion. Esp not one for a DPS, maybe for smiting but even then id prefer an axe.

Hokonoso
08-09-2007, 09:32 AM
Yea that could be sweet.

+2 greataxe of fortification rending.. -25% to targets fortification while wielding this weapon. Would rock heavy fort targets.. But vs some WF with 125% fort... It wouldn't help hehe.

Very powerful, would be a nice raid item for mod 5.

And pls dont post ur dumb spreadsheets here, keep them in the gneeral forum. Falchions are not allowed in this forum, much less numbers saying there even close to greataxes, pfft, no real barb would be caught dead with a falchion. Esp not one for a DPS, maybe for smiting but even then id prefer an axe.

I agree, the spreadsheets are ******** as they are assuming the mob has 50000hp and never moves thus allowing the falchion to "catch up" on damage, everyone knows greataxes out perform falchions by so much it isn't even funny, and they swing so damn fast! even if the greataxe never crits it is still better!

Xzanthos
08-09-2007, 11:45 PM
I was going to make a new thread, but I figure I'll ask in this one.

My question isn't geared towards the end game though.

Currently I'm level 9 and just picked up a Carnifex, I was previously using a +2 Chaotic Greataxe of Pure Good, and I can't really tell which is the higher damaging weapon.

I hear people suggest the Carnifex because of the high threat range, but is the extra 2 threat (I have improved critical slashing) worth the loss of the consistent 2d6 to most mobs?

According to the damage calculator, the Chaotic of Pure good is about 15 dps more than the Carnifex, is the potential burst DPS from the higher crit range worth it?

Shade
08-10-2007, 01:44 AM
Thats kinda totally different weapons.

Anarchic only works on certain enemies, and pure good as well.. So if not as well rounded on carnifex which is great for anything you can crit.
Also depends on your str... Id say around 32+ str to make the xtra crits carnifex gives really count and beat out nearly any other special effect type weapon in its lvl range.

But if the mobs imune to crits and weak to anarchic such as the marut in von3, then yep the anarchi is the best wep for there.

DPS calculators are all wrong, they dont factor half of the game dynamics in, just a bit of very basic math.

Xzanthos
08-10-2007, 01:53 AM
Thanks for the reply. Just a clarification, the prefix is Chaotic, not Anarchic, I can't recall what Anarchic does off the top of my head, so I'm not sure if it makes a difference in comparing the two.

What type of mobs are immune to crits? I've only been playing about a month, so I'm not sure if I've run into any yet ;)

I currently run 32 strength double raged, which is pretty often as I've managed to stock up on rage clickies.

I just got the Carnifex last night, and didn't get much of a chance to play around with it. In Sorrowdusk it seemed to definitely out perform the Chaotic/Good axe just for the shear fact that mobs would die in one crit, completely negating the damage I would take from the a few more consistent hits with the Chaotic/Good axe, which I was quite happy with. I'm certain that is different at higher levels though.

Slayer918
08-10-2007, 02:15 AM
Thanks for the reply. Just a clarification, the prefix is Chaotic, not Anarchic, I can't recall what Anarchic does off the top of my head, so I'm not sure if it makes a difference in comparing the two.

What type of mobs are immune to crits? I've only been playing about a month, so I'm not sure if I've run into any yet ;)

I currently run 32 strength double raged, which is pretty often as I've managed to stock up on rage clickies.

I just got the Carnifex last night, and didn't get much of a chance to play around with it. In Sorrowdusk it seemed to definitely out perform the Chaotic/Good axe just for the shear fact that mobs would die in one crit, completely negating the damage I would take from the a few more consistent hits with the Chaotic/Good axe, which I was quite happy with. I'm certain that is different at higher levels though.

Anarchic is 2d6 against lawful mobs, true chaos (what you have) is 1d6 against lawful and neutral mobs.

Some constructs, undead, oozes are all I can really think of off the top of my head that have fortification.

Shade
08-10-2007, 06:08 AM
All undead and ooze are imune to crits. Constructs, most are imune - golems, marut, warforged have some fortification.

Also many high lvl boss type mobs which aren't normal imune to crits have some minor fortification.

And yea there is no prefix called chaotic. Chaotic is a alignment.

Theres 2 of them that do chaotic damage tho:
Ture Chaos - 1d6 to anything non-chaotic (must be chaotic to use)
Anarchic - 2d6 to lawful enemies (usable by anyone, but negativ lvls if used by lawful)

Xzanthos
08-10-2007, 06:12 AM
Yep, I was mistaken, after I posted I logged in and realized it myself but I was already corrected by time I came back to post ;)

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm going to stick with the Carnifex for now.

Blind_Skwerl
08-10-2007, 03:37 PM
Saw the SoS in action last night. Was doing gianthold tor on elite with a wf barbarian swinging the thing. OMG!!! Every swing, this guy was taking huge chunks off of the giants' red bars! Amazing. BTW... doing the dragons on elite was the worst scale run I have ever been on. Not for deaths (we did fine), but for scales. Total scales for the 6-man party, all 3 dragons: 3 scales (2 blue, 1 white). Craptacular!

spifflove
08-12-2007, 01:28 AM
i just found a shocking burst dwarf ax of destruction. I have no dorf so Im taking the feat with my human barbarian.

crits will look like so:

averages
15 (d10 x3) weapon
4.5 x 3 shocking burst
4.5 x 3 untyped damage
42 average crit
15 power attack
24 strength

81 average crit. Plus a shield bonus.

Shade
08-12-2007, 06:44 AM
i just found a shocking burst dwarf ax of destruction. I have no dorf so Im taking the feat with my human barbarian.

crits will look like so:

averages
15 (d10 x3) weapon
4.5 x 3 shocking burst
4.5 x 3 untyped damage
42 average crit
15 power attack
24 strength

81 average crit. Plus a shield bonus.
Spiff you do realise a weapon like that is not very rare.. Can generally get something like that or better for 5Kpp or less on the AH. Perhaps you mixed up the name?
Destruction lowers the targets AC. Doesn't deal any untyped damage.

Also not sure how you get 15 from power attack?
Highest possible for human barb should be +8 for a 1 hander (16 for 2hander)
And 24 str, assuming you mean 24 str , not 24 str mod.. 24 str gives you +7 dmg for 1hander (24 mod is like having 60+ str)

So perhaps
11 dmg (probably a +1 weapon right, 10 base +1 enhance)
8 power attack
7 strength
=26 x3 = 78

78 +d6 + 2d10 for shocking burst = 104 max dmg crit. Not bad but no where close to the 200+ you can do with a basic 2hander.

Personally I found a +5 shocking burst dwarven axe of vertigo +2 on my dwarf barbarian. He doesn't use the weapon due to its low DPS. Also shields don't mean much in 90% of high level quests.

spifflove
08-12-2007, 01:00 PM
Spiff you do realise a weapon like that is not very rare.. Can generally get something like that or better for 5Kpp or less on the AH. Perhaps you mixed up the name?
Destruction lowers the targets AC. Doesn't deal any untyped damage.

Also not sure how you get 15 from power attack?
Highest possible for human barb should be +8 for a 1 hander (16 for 2hander)
And 24 str, assuming you mean 24 str , not 24 str mod.. 24 str gives you +7 dmg for 1hander (24 mod is like having 60+ str)

So perhaps
11 dmg (probably a +1 weapon right, 10 base +1 enhance)
8 power attack
7 strength
=26 x3 = 78

78 +d6 + 2d10 for shocking burst = 104 max dmg crit. Not bad but no where close to the 200+ you can do with a basic 2hander.

Personally I found a +5 shocking burst dwarven axe of vertigo +2 on my dwarf barbarian. He doesn't use the weapon due to its low DPS. Also shields don't mean much in 90% of high level quests.

It was maiming. Im assuming that finding shocking burst and maiming together is a rarity. I was going to sell it for a million gold but then i reconsidered given the odds of getting another pull like that.

Wouldnt it be 78 +3d10 for shocking burst plus 3d10 for untyped? Or is it x2 for x3 multiplier?

Thats 138 crit max for a one hander. Given that I think my average crit damage was pretty close.

How can you get that kind of crit damage with a two hander (outside sos) other than situationally? (remember that my barb will still be able to use any bane two handers he finds).

Mad_Bombardier
08-12-2007, 02:47 PM
IIRC, maiming is +2d6 untyped for x3 crit weapons.

Jaywade
08-12-2007, 03:23 PM
I think I would rather have a brust/pure good than burst/maiming.... I'm currently rolling a barb...the dps is insane at 6th lvl while rageing using the cariflex I have a 31 str and I can get the damage + to 26 ...I often see 100-103 pt crits....can't wait to higher lvls, casue unless I'm wrong I will be able to crit on a 15 with axe right?

Beherit_Baphomar
08-13-2007, 10:27 AM
I think I would rather have a brust/pure good than burst/maiming.... I'm currently rolling a barb...the dps is insane at 6th lvl while rageing using the cariflex I have a 31 str and I can get the damage + to 26 ...I often see 100-103 pt crits....can't wait to higher lvls, casue unless I'm wrong I will be able to crit on a 15 with axe right?

Correct. With Crit RageII you'll go down to 15-20...not too shabby. I believe scimmies, with Imp.Crit and Crit RageII crit on a 13-20, same with falchions, but obviously the damage output isnt worth it.

Shame we cant tape a seeker dagger or something to our heads when using greataxes *sigh*

Maldini
08-14-2007, 08:27 PM
+4 or +5 Holy Burst Greataxe of Pure Good would be my favorite, but I still have to find one. :)

smodge13
08-14-2007, 09:27 PM
Shame we cant tape a seeker dagger or something to our heads when using greataxes *sigh*

bloodstone

Shade
08-14-2007, 10:48 PM
How can you get that kind of crit damage with a two hander (outside sos) other than situationally? (remember that my barb will still be able to use any bane two handers he finds).

x3 burst is 2d10 my numbers are accurate (i play this game too much to mix up much stats)
Shock burst of maiming is a good combo, but not million gold+ good. Doubt it would fetch even 100k gp.

200 crits with a basic +5 greataxe are pretty standard for a maxed out barbarian fully buffed (triple rage, bard buff, haste, etc). Sword of shadows often deal less damage because its not an axe. And not sure what you mean by situationaly, I play the game with the max dmg mindset, I always do insane dmg, not just "situationally"

My damage number fully buffed with a +5 wep is +50, so 12 + 50, 62 = 186. Add bloodstone for 6 x 3 dmg, for 18, gives a 204 crit. Goes up higher with greater banes (max crit for me was 218). Warforged can do a little over 240.

Jaysensen
08-14-2007, 11:54 PM
+4 or +5 Holy Burst Greataxe of Pure Good would be my favorite, but I still have to find one. :)

What WERE you using on that run with elite Tor run with Axer, anyway?

Tavok
08-15-2007, 12:31 AM
Isnt that a double suffix?

Since Maiming takes the place of Greater Bane, I always considered it a "junk" mod. What is better, Maiming or PG?

Just make it a +4 Holy Greataxe of Greater Giant Bane. Works better :P

Maldini
08-15-2007, 01:08 PM
What WERE you using on that run with elite Tor run with Axer, anyway?


Just a +5 Holy of Pure Good