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Quarion
08-06-2007, 10:02 AM
Weekly Development Activities

In QA
These items are in QA and are scheduled for Module 5: The Accursed Ascension (Litany of the Dead Parts 3 & 4).

General
Dolurrh environmental effects will now display an appropriate screen overlay.UI Improvements
When you close and reopen the Adventure Compendium it will now remember which tab you were on and reopen to that tab.
Added a button called “Modify Party” to the “Outstanding Invitation Requests” panel which will open up the “Create Party” panel directly instead of having players open it by opening the social panel first, then hitting the “Create Party” button.
Fixed a problem where it was difficult to resize the grouping panel using the lower-right corner.
Added a new button to the character options panel called “Gameplay” which contains an option which will allow players to customize the way their quest end rewards are generated. By default, they are generated based on the character’s main class, but some players (especially multi-classed characters) may prefer for these end rewards to be completely random.
NEW - There is a new option located under the Options->Gameplay tab that allows you to turn on the "Fellow Sticky Selection". Description: "Check to prevent 'Select Fellow' keys from toggling/clearing your target when selecting the same fellow."
NEW - Sorting by quest name in the Adventure Compendium now ignores "The " at the beginning of the name. The Quest Journal will also function in the same way when sorting the Area tabs and the quest list.Auctions
Sorting by duration now works correctly.
There are now restrictions on when you may cancel an auction. You may cancel your auction at any time if it has no bidders, or within the first hour of the posting regardless of the number of bidders.Tooltips
Added active/toggle/passive usage to action tooltips.
Tooltips that display long cooldown periods will display them in minutes and seconds – e.g., 2 minutes 30 seconds instead of 150 seconds.
Action tooltips will inform the user when an action is useable in water, not useable in a brawl, or when it is useable only in public. They will also display the target type for the action.
The tooltips on the character stats page have been streatched out to allow 4 digit numbers to be displayed. This was an issue for magic users with 1000+ spell points, for example.
Disabling tooltips now disables all tooltips including shortcut bar and examination tooltips.
Tooltips for skills now include the key ability.
Tooltips for spells and feats now include the save DC and save type(s).Shopping
You can now ctrl-click on an item in a shop to purchase the item in bulk. A pop-up dialog will prompt you to enter the number of items to purchase. Note: This dialog is only used when purchasing items. There is still no way to control the number of items you sell from a stack.
When items in a shop are alphabetized, they are sorted first by base name (e.g. sword, dagger) and then by prefix (e.g. masterwork, vorpal).
When you add items to the shopping cart, the cumulative cost of the items in the cart will affect the “can afford” status of the items available for purchase / repair.
If a player’s haggle skill changes, then the shopping cart display price will now update to reflect the change.Spells
Spell tooltips now include blocks that describe whether or not a spell can be resisted, and what the specific material component is for a given spell (if any).
Spell tooltips now include a metamagic information block. This block lists the kinds of metamagic that can affect this spell.
Monsters
Monsters now should stop throwing stuff and attacking while they are held or otherwise helpless.
Minotaurs may occasionally use thrown weapons if charging headlong at an opponent doesn’t seem to be working.
Combat
Offensive spells with “touch” range now possess significantly more lenient heading checks. These include Chill Touch, Ghoul Touch, Inflict (various) Wounds, Otto’s (ir)Resistable Dance, Slay Living, and Touch of Idiocy.
The Crushing Despair FX are now persistent.
Now if you are a divine caster and are using wands or scrolls of divine types and you happen to be under the effect of Quell’s Intercession, you will have to perform a UMD check just like every non divine caster type.
NEW - Focusing Chant now displays a proper icon when cast.
NEW - The metamagic system in Dungeons and Dragons Online has undergone significant changes in Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension.
The biggest change that casters will discover is that each metamagic feat other than Heighten Spell now has a fixed spell point cost increase rather than multiplying the spell point cost of a spell as they did before Module 5.0. These surcharges are as follows:
Empower Spell: +15 SP
Empower Healing Spell: +10 SP
Enlarge Spell: +10 SP
Eschew Materials: +2 SP
Extend Spell: +10 SP
Maximize Spell: +25 SP
Quicken Spell: +10 SP
Heighten Spell: Special (Changes base cost of your spell to that of your highest level spells)

These cost increases are cumulative if multiple metamagic feats are active simultaneously, so a Quickened, Maximized, Enlarged Fireball would cost:
20 (base) + 10 (Quicken) + 25 (Maximize) + 10 (Enlarge) = 65 Spell Points

Improved Metamagic enhancements have all been changed to flat cost reductions on these surcharges. Sorcerer Improved Maximizing III, for instance, has become "Using the Maximize Spell feat costs you 9 fewer spell points." Wizard Improved Heightening II is now "Using the Heighten Spell feat costs you 2 fewer spell points per level of heightening." Skills, Feats, & Abilities
The number of Turn Undead attempts per rest will now be calculated on the current displayed Charisma modifier. Previously only permanent changes to Charisma from level advancement and tomes were counted.
The Listen skill now helps you detect hidden monsters.
Old feat lists in the feat respec dialog now look like most of the other lists of feats and enhancements in-game and sub-feats have their icons again.
Players who have a feat called “Feat Respec Token” will once again be allowed to respec the “Feat Respec Token” and then other feats.
Barbarians now possess a new ability in the feats section of their character sheet. “Dismiss Rage” can be used at any time to prematurely end their barbarian rage. Note that you will still be subject to fatigue from your rage, and it functions only on the barbarian class ability - you cannot dismiss any other ragelike effects.
NEW - It is now possible to trade a feat for a feat which can be aquired multiple times when the player already has one. So players can now aquire Toughness as many times as they like through feet respec.
NEW - Cure Wounds spells, including the Mass Cures, can no longer be Heightened as Clerics can already freely cast the higher level versions of those spells and are the ones most likely to use them as offensive spells against Undead. Note that the Heal spell is unaffected by this change as there are more circumstances under which you may wish to Heighten the spell.
NEW - A Paladin's Aura of Courage will no longer cause various other spell effects to repeat over and over. The Aura of Courage bonus has also been changed to a Sacred Bonus to Will Saves vs. Fear, and as such, will stack with Morale effects.Enhancements
Lines of Item Defense enhancements have been added to Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers, and Rogues. Note that these lines, unlike the Fighter Item Defense line, are only three enhancements deep, and are acquired at higher levels than the Fighter Item Defense enhancements. Paladins receive Item Defense enhancements at levels 3, 7, and 11, while the others receive them at 5, 9, and 13. Fighters continue to receive them at levels 1, 5, 9, and 13. As with all class enhancements, purchasing level one in one class will lock out the lines from the other classes.
Halfling luck, instead of only affecting Reflex saves, is now three distinct enhancement chains. These are not exclusive.
Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Prereq: Halfling Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves.
Halfling Luck (Fortitude) II
Prereq: Halfling Level 5, 14 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves.
Halfling Luck (Fortitude) III
Prereq: Halfling Level 9, 29 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Fortitude) II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants a +3 bonus to Fortitude saves.
Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Prereq: Halfling Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants a +1 bonus to Reflex saves.
Halfling Luck (Reflex) II
Prereq: Halfling Level 5, 14 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants a +2 bonus to Reflex saves.
Halfling Luck (Reflex) III
Prereq: Halfling Level 9, 29 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Reflex) II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants a +3 bonus to Reflex saves.
Halfling Luck (Will) I
Prereq: Halfling Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants a +1 bonus to Will saves.
Halfling Luck (Will) II
Prereq: Halfling Level 5, 14 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Will) I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants a +2 bonus to Will saves.
Halfling Luck (Will) III
Prereq: Halfling Level 9, 29 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Will) II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants a +3 bonus to Will saves.
Human Versatility has undergone some revisions, and now grants five subabilities. Instead of being restricted only to a skill boost, Humans may now display their versatility by gaining a short duration increase to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class. These boosts draw from one common pool of 5.
Human Versatility I
Prereq: Human Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +2 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Skills I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack I.Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility II
Prereq: Human Level 4, 10 Action Points Spent, Human Versatility I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +3 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Skills II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility III
Prereq: Human Level 7, 21 Action Points Spent, Human Versatility II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +4 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Skills III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility IV
Prereq: Human Level 10, 32 Action Points Spent, Human Versatility III
Cost: 4 Action Points
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +5 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Skills IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.
Items
In order to alleviate inventory clutter by collectables and gems, players will now be able to use a new object known as the “collectable bag” and “gem bag”. Small, medium and large versions of both are available. The small version will be awarded to those who complete, or who have already completed the low level intro quests. Medium bags are for sale at vendors, and large bags will be rare treasure. Each bag will occupy one inventory slot, while holding a number of gems or collectables depending on it’s size.
NEW - Critical hit effects on weapons were preventing sneak attack damage from applying in certain rare circumstances. This has been fixedNPC's
Nothing to report

PVP
Nothing to report

Monsters

NEW - The fleeing rust monsters in Stromvauld's Mine will no longer trip over their own feet.
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills.
NEW - Patrolling creatures should get stuck less often.
NEW - Slimes telekinetically controlled by the Sorcerer/Wizard spell Ooze Puppet are now also telekinetically prevented from splitting. As such, you will no longer lose control of the slime due to splitting. Quests
Gianthold
The Gnolls that were erroneously spawning in a tent will no longer respawn.
NEW - Players should no longer fall through the Gianthold Tor bridge.
Madstone Crater
Players should now get fewer cases of hot feet a few steps from the lava’s edge.
Necropolis
The Bloody Crypt
Gullet the Famished One will no longer respawn Other

The metamagic system in Dungeons and Dragons Online has undergone significant changes in Module 5.0: Accursed Ascension.

The biggest change that casters will discover is that each metamagic feat other than Heighten Spell now has a fixed spell point cost increase rather than multiplying the spell point cost of a spell as they did before Module 5.0. These surcharges are as follows:

Empower Spell: +15 SP
Empower Healing Spell: +10 SP
Enlarge Spell: +10 SP
Eschew Materials: +2 SP
Extend Spell: +10 SP
Maximize Spell: +25 SP
Quicken Spell: +10 SP
Heighten Spell: Special (Changes base cost of your spell to that of your highest level spells)

These cost increases are cumulative if multiple metamagic feats are active simultaneously, so a Quickened, Maximized, Enlarged Fireball would cost:
20 (base) + 10 (Quicken) + 25 (Maximize) + 10 (Enlarge) = 65 Spell Points

Improved Metamagic enhancements have all been changed to flat cost reductions on these surcharges. Sorcerer Improved Maximizing III, for instance, has become "Using the Maximize Spell feat costs you 9 fewer spell points." Wizard Improved Heightening II is now "Using the Heighten Spell feat costs you 2 fewer spell points per level of heightening."
The primary warded chest in all raids has been converted to the standard format for all chests in DDO. Every player in the raid will have their own treasure generated and assigned to them when they look into the chest. The locking glyphs are no more.

Each character has a 1 in 6 chance to receive a special item from that raid’s loot table. Otherwise, a standard treasure from the maximum treasure table appropriate for that raid will be generated for that character. Players may re-assign any items to other characters in the raid using the new treasure re-assignment feature. This includes any special raid only items.

The raid only items are still bound once they are removed from the chest. A warning confirmation box appears when attempting to grab a bind on acquire raid item from the chest.

In addition, the primary warded chest creates the list of characters that are allowed to loot the chest at the time chest spawns. This list contains all the members of the raid at the time the list was created. Characters not on the list do not have treasure generated for them when they open the chest and may not have items re-assigned to them.

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 10:02 AM
NEW - A Paladin's Aura of Courage will no longer cause various other spell effects to repeat over and over. The Aura of Courage bonus has also been changed to a Sacred Bonus to Will Saves vs. Fear, and as such, will stack with Morale effects.
NEW - Critical hit effects on weapons were preventing sneak attack damage from applying in certain rare circumstances. This has been fixed
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills.
nice



NEW - Slimes telekinetically controlled by the Sorcerer/Wizard spell Ooze Puppet are now also telekinetically prevented from splitting. As such, you will no longer lose control of the slime due to splitting.
NEW - There is a new option located under the Options->Gameplay tab that allows you to turn on the "Fellow Sticky Selection". Description: "Check to prevent 'Select Fellow' keys from toggling/clearing your target when selecting the same fellow."
NEW - Sorting by quest name in the Adventure Compendium now ignores "The " at the beginning of the name. The Quest Journal will also function in the same way when sorting the Area tabs and the quest list.
very nice

Cowdenicus
08-06-2007, 10:03 AM
yeah

Freeman
08-06-2007, 10:06 AM
Still no fix for Crippling Strike...

Come on, I have to say it now. After this many months, it has become a tradition :)

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 10:08 AM
now this just needs to be stickied.

Cowdenicus
08-06-2007, 10:08 AM
this should be stickied ;)

Symar-FangofLloth
08-06-2007, 10:08 AM
Haha, no more tab-targeting invis and stealthed monsters! Good thing I have listen maxed on my bard :D.

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:09 AM
Still no fix for Crippling Strike...

Come on, I have to say it now. After this many months, it has become a tradition :)

But hey. A lot of other fixes. The paladin hand. The heightened cures. The finicky fred.

There's hope!

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:09 AM
Wow. Mod 5 is shaping up to have a lot of nice little things in it too.

But I don't understand this "Sticky Fellow" business. Could someone explain what that means?

JayDubya
08-06-2007, 10:11 AM
Wow. Mod 5 is shaping up to have a lot of nice little things in it too.

But I don't understand this "Sticky Fellow" business. Could someone explain what that means?


When you hit F2 to select a friend, and you hit F2 again, this dictates whether the second F2 acts as a toggle (and de-selects), or does nothing

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:12 AM
When you hit F2 to select a friend, and you hit F2 again, this dictates whether the second F2 acts as a toggle (and de-selects), or does nothing

Ah, I get it. Thanks.

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 10:12 AM
Wow. Mod 5 is shaping up to have a lot of nice little things in it too.

But I don't understand this "Sticky Fellow" business. Could someone explain what that means?
its when the Mods put something on the top of the forum sub-section so it doesnt get lost.;)

Geesh some people.....:p

~sturm097
08-06-2007, 10:12 AM
Wow. Mod 5 is shaping up to have a lot of nice little things in it too.

But I don't understand this "Sticky Fellow" business. Could someone explain what that means?

It basically means that you won't Deselect your party memebers when you hit the F1-F12 keys a second time on the same party member.

Like when I play my cleric, I use those keys to select who I'm gonna heal.... right now, if I hit F2 to heal someone, then hit F2 a second time, it will deselect them and the heal will hit me instead

Edit: Hehe, damn I type slow sometimes......

Cowdenicus
08-06-2007, 10:12 AM
When you hit F2 to select a friend, and you hit F2 again, this dictates whether the second F2 acts as a toggle (and de-selects), or does nothing

Clerics will love this. especially busy ones in raids.

Freeman
08-06-2007, 10:13 AM
But hey. A lot of other fixes. The paladin hand. The heightened cures. The finicky fred.

There's hope!

Yes, but when you look at how long some of the bugs have been around, it is kind of disheartening. Especially since it wouldn't surprise me if the Crippling Strike bug was marked as "Fixed" when they fixed the problems with elemental damage and sneak attack.

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:14 AM
Especially since it wouldn't surprise me if the Crippling Strike bug was marked as "Fixed" when they fixed the problems with elemental damage and sneak attack.

You're bug reporting it every day, right? ;)

Make them listen! Power to the... err... Rogues!!

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:15 AM
How is crippling strike bugged again?

It doesn't work on ranged sneak attacks.

Gimpster
08-06-2007, 10:16 AM
But I don't understand this "Sticky Fellow" business. Could someone explain what that means?
You see, they have developer crossover with LORTO, which means they now call party members "fellows" as per Fellowship of the Ring.

Coldin
08-06-2007, 10:16 AM
NEW - Sorting by quest name in the Adventure Compendium now ignores "The " at the beginning of the name. The Quest Journal will also function in the same way when sorting the Area tabs and the quest list.Very nice. That'll make finding quests so much easier.


NEW - A Paladin's Aura of Courage will no longer cause various other spell effects to repeat over and over. The Aura of Courage bonus has also been changed to a Sacred Bonus to Will Saves vs. Fear, and as such, will stack with Morale effects.
Thank you! I'm so glad to see that going away.

NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills.Great change. Spot and Listen will be very useful skills for the non-rogue now. Will this ever make it into PvP too? It would be great if rogues could sneak around the battlefield.

Cowdenicus
08-06-2007, 10:16 AM
Yes, but when you look at how long some of the bugs have been around, it is kind of disheartening. Especially since it wouldn't surprise me if the Crippling Strike bug was marked as "Fixed" when they fixed the problems with elemental damage and sneak attack.

How is crippling strike bugged again?

Cowdenicus
08-06-2007, 10:18 AM
It doesn't work on ranged sneak attacks.

is it supposed to?

Gimpster
08-06-2007, 10:18 AM
How is crippling strike bugged again?
It doesn't apply to ranged attacks, even if you are close enough so that you get ranged sneak attacks.

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:19 AM
Second, ranged rogues are underpowered in DDO, so something to increase their ability would be beneficial.

Well ranged everybodies are underpowered, but it'd be a good place to start.

JayDubya
08-06-2007, 10:19 AM
Yes, but when you look at how long some of the bugs have been around, it is kind of disheartening.

I'm curious, (and not in a snarky way) what's the next bug you're going to put in your sig once Crippling Strike is fixed?

Gimpster
08-06-2007, 10:19 AM
is it supposed to?
Yes, it should. First, the D&D rules say it should. Second, ranged rogues are underpowered in DDO, so something to increase their ability would be beneficial.

NameisToad
08-06-2007, 10:20 AM
NEW - It is now possible to trade a feat for a feat which can be aquired multiple times when the player already has one. So players can now aquire Toughness as many times as they like through feet respec.

I really wanna know how respec'ing my feet can make me tougher. :D

Heathen_Child
08-06-2007, 10:21 AM
Bah, get closer, as in dagger close, if your ranged weapons don't work. :)

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:22 AM
I really wanna know how respec'ing my feet can make me tougher. :D

Calluses.

Oran_Lathor
08-06-2007, 10:26 AM
The new metamagic system looks like a huge boon to casters to me, but I'm just a little unclear about the new Improved Heightening.

Wizard Improved Heightening II is now "Using the Heighten Spell feat costs you 2 fewer spell points per level of heightening."

I think this means that the lower the base level of the spell you are heightening, the more you will save on SP, correct? So if I throw a heightened web (heightened 5 levels from 2 to 7) I will save 10 SP, but if i throw a heightened disintegrate, I would only save 2?

If that is indeed how it works, it sounds like a workable system to me, although it's interesting that the enhancement offers more return on spells that gain a larger benefit from it's use... IE. Heightening a web is cheaper than heightening a disintegrate even though web gains 5 points of DC compared to disintegrate's 1.

In the end though, my casters will love this change :)

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:28 AM
If that is indeed how it works, it sounds like a workable system to me, although it's interesting that the enhancement offers more return on spells that gain a larger benefit from it's use...

Better than the old system where a heightened disintegrate was actually cheaper to cast than a regular disintegrate. ;)

Oran_Lathor
08-06-2007, 10:31 AM
Better than the old system where a heightened disintegrate was actually cheaper to cast than a regular disintegrate. ;)

Well, yes, though that was nice while it lasted :)

Aesop
08-06-2007, 10:31 AM
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills.


ok this one I like... even though I do tab to an aweful lot... I still welcome this change... now if you could just make it so that the monsters sneak breaks when they cast spells that would be great... as it is those really sneaky Hobgobs still remain invisible after they've cast a couple of spells

Aesop

Rindalathar
08-06-2007, 10:33 AM
After reading these notes, I think it's fair to say that the devs are working on things that need fixing for the long term and that's a good sign for DDO's longevity.

With posts about DOOOOOM, server merges, and the general lack of many options for capped characters contributing to much malaise for many of us, I always get re-invigorated when I see things in the WDA like the TAB tweak for targeting monsters. Not many players really commented on this, but the devs felt it added something to the game and rightly so.

For me, this means that they're trying to make DDO the best game it can be. That doesn't leave anyone off the hook in any sense from keeping to plug away, but it, at least, gives some sense of direction for the game.

PS Does anyone know when the next newsletter is sent out, since it usually contains release dates for Mods and Updates? I know all of us and chomping at bit to find out when we can play the new stuff.

Shade
08-06-2007, 10:34 AM
NEW - A Paladin's Aura of Courage will no longer cause various other spell effects to repeat over and over. The Aura of Courage bonus has also been changed to a Sacred Bonus to Will Saves vs. Fear, and as such, will stack with Morale effects.
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Been asking for this fix for so long. Horribly annoying bug will soon be gone =)


NEW - Slimes telekinetically controlled by the Sorcerer/Wizard spell Ooze Puppet are now also telekinetically prevented from splitting. As such, you will no longer lose control of the slime due to splitting.
This is like the one change that made me go.. what?? What dev loves that spell so much they had to spend time tweaking it? lol such a silly spell, who cares if it works well or not. Oh well, what I considered the worst bug is being fixed so i can forgive devs spending time on this heh.

Claver
08-06-2007, 10:34 AM
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills.



This is huge!!! When I played pnp I was never able to use the TAB button to see monsters behind doors, around corners or on ledges behind me. The game will have more suspense (and realism if that's possible for fantasy) if we can be ambushed. Heavens forbid - we might even have to ask rangers and rogues to scout ahead, rather than zerging through dark caverns.

I'm in favor of this change!

Yaga_Nub
08-06-2007, 10:34 AM
I really wanna know how respec'ing my feet can make me tougher. :D

Damn you! I wanted to make some snide remark about this first! :)

Freeman
08-06-2007, 10:38 AM
I'm curious, (and not in a snarky way) what's the next bug you're going to put in your sig once Crippling Strike is fixed?

Well, given the current bugs, it would probably be that the new bard songs are getting dispelled, but I suspect that will be fixed before Crippling Strike. It will probably depend on what we end up with after the next Mod more than anything else. And when they actually fix Crippling Strike.(Song of Freedom was only fixed for one month before the level cap was raised again, giving me a couple of new causes)

Shade
08-06-2007, 10:38 AM
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills.

Oh ya that one is cool too. I purposely didn't put any points in spot on my sorcerer because I knew I didnt have to see them to tab and pk.. So now I will be very surpised by sneaky mobs, which is great.
And oh well for me being gimped for exploiting a UI flaw, i can fix that a little with items and skil pnts at next lvl cap anyways.

Oh yea it should be noted that you can't detect hidden mobs with listen currently anyways.. So hopefully that is coded correctly.

Coldin
08-06-2007, 10:44 AM
Oh yea it should be noted that you can't detect hidden mobs with listen currently anyways.. So hopefully that is coded correctly.
See below...




* The Listen skill now helps you detect hidden monsters.

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 10:44 AM
I really wanna know how respec'ing my feet can make me tougher. :D
cause you would have survived having your feet loped off, and replaced by new better feet.:D

chrisrtld
08-06-2007, 10:45 AM
NEW - It is now possible to trade a feat for a feat which can be aquired multiple times when the player already has one. So players can now aquire Toughness as many times as they like through feet respec.

WOW! You can add toughness by changing your shoes!

Geriant
08-06-2007, 10:45 AM
Shade,

If you look at the parts of the WDA that don't say NEW you will see that update 5.0 also will include a change to the listen skill to allow you to detect hidden mobs.

~G

Lorien_the_First_One
08-06-2007, 10:53 AM
WOW! You can add toughness by changing your shoes!

No you actually have to change your feet. It's rather painful but done quickly with a great axe

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 10:54 AM
the new bard songs are getting dispelled

Well, they shouldn't work in an Antimagic zone (i.e. Beholders) but neither should the original songs. You shouldn't be able to dispel them with Dispel Magic (unless, for some reason, they're "spell-like abilities" which wouldn't really make sense).

Cowdenicus
08-06-2007, 11:02 AM
No you actually have to change your feet. It's rather painful but done quickly with a great axe

It is a new way for clerics to make money in game, when them fighter types want new feet, they will be at our mercy to heal them.

No plats = bleed to death.

binnsr
08-06-2007, 11:23 AM
No you actually have to change your feet. It's rather painful but done quickly with a great axe
Even a mediocre axe will work..

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 11:24 AM
It is a new way for clerics to make money in game, when them fighter types want new feet, they will be at our mercy to heal them.

No plats = bleed to death.
but what if your WF? you dont bleed. you stabalize all the time.

Cowdenicus
08-06-2007, 11:31 AM
but what if your WF? you dont bleed. you stabalize all the time.

Well seeing as we cant let anybody have an advantage like that, we would have to have a cleric on standby with the Harm spell loaded.

Freeman
08-06-2007, 11:32 AM
Well, they shouldn't work in an Antimagic zone (i.e. Beholders) but neither should the original songs. You shouldn't be able to dispel them with Dispel Magic (unless, for some reason, they're "spell-like abilities" which wouldn't really make sense).

Yeah, beholders are their own separate argument, so I won't get into that. I would be content if enemy spellcasters couldn't dispel the bard songs for now.

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 11:39 AM
Well seeing as we cant let anybody have an advantage like that, we would have to have a cleric on standby with the Harm spell loaded.
oh ok.....

JayDubya
08-06-2007, 11:40 AM
It is a new way for clerics to make money in game, when them fighter types want new feet, they will be at our mercy to heel them.


Fixed that for you.

Freeman
08-06-2007, 11:57 AM
Fixed that for you.

Can anything heal the pain inflicted by puns? :p

JayDubya
08-06-2007, 11:59 AM
Can anything heal the pain inflicted by puns? :p

Only Crippling Strike :D

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 12:31 PM
Can anything heal the pain inflicted by puns? :p

What you need is a punacea.

Freeman
08-06-2007, 12:40 PM
What you need is a punacea.

I literally felt physical pain with that one. Still, not quite the worst one I've ever heard, but it is getting there.

Furgulder
08-06-2007, 12:43 PM
But hey. A lot of other fixes. The paladin hand. The heightened cures. The finicky fred.

There's hope!


agree. lots of nice fixes and new stuff to boot!

Baryn
08-06-2007, 12:58 PM
Ah, how I wish I kept those pair of +13 Spot Goggles I had.

But thank you Stormreaver Napkin for allowing me to switch to them.

moorewr
08-06-2007, 12:58 PM
When you hit F2 to select a friend, and you hit F2 again, this dictates whether the second F2 acts as a toggle (and de-selects), or does nothing

Woo hoo! A thousand clerics just cried out in delight!

moorewr
08-06-2007, 01:10 PM
I really wanna know how respec'ing my feet can make me tougher. :D

They forget to mention that it only works on halflings.

:)

Impaqt
08-06-2007, 01:10 PM
NEW - Cure Wounds spells, including the Mass Cures, can no longer be Heightened as Clerics can already freely cast the higher level versions of those spells and are the ones most likely to use them as offensive spells against Undead. Note that the Heal spell is unaffected by this change as there are more circumstances under which you may wish to Heighten the spell.

THANK YOU!

I DOnt Mind Heighten Still working on Heal as its a Small bump right now, but would certainly like to be able to Toggle it inthe future.

Now if we could Toggle Empower Healing on HEAL that Feat might be worth taking again as well.

Gimpster
08-06-2007, 01:15 PM
NEW - Cure Wounds spells, including the Mass Cures, can no longer be Heightened as Clerics can already freely cast the higher level versions of those spells and are the ones most likely to use them as offensive spells against Undead. Note that the Heal spell is unaffected by this change as there are more circumstances under which you may wish to Heighten the spell.
This is an improvement, but it could be better.

Option 1: Make the UI smarter so that a Cure spell is heightened only if you both have Heighten on AND the only target is an undead.

Option 1b: Make the Heighten feat have multiple sub-feats which are different toggles you may use instead, which heighten spells according to different criteria. We could have Generic Heighten mode, Healing Heighten mode (cure spells are also Heightened), and even Absolute Heighten mode which raises all spells to the max poss level, allowing you to beat Globe /Mantle of Invulnerability.

Option 2: Allow us to open a config dialog box for each icon and drag in a list of metamagics to be used with that icon, each time it is cast. This would solve the problem of a wizard who wants to mix casting Fear, Hold Monster, and Flesh to Stone with Haste and Displacement: the buffs should be Extended, but the debuffs should not. So he has to stop moving and wait for the progress bar each time before he can buff.

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 01:15 PM
Still, not quite the worst one I've ever heard, but it is getting there.

And here I was trying so hard. :(

Talon_Moonshadow
08-06-2007, 01:16 PM
"NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills."

I hope this means you will be able to see them with the See Invisibility spell?! This spell does not appear to do anything right now.....and True Seeing also doesn't seem to reveil hiding crratures either.

Yvonne_Blacksword
08-06-2007, 01:26 PM
Items

In order to alleviate inventory clutter by collectables and gems, players will now be able to use a new object known as the “collectable bag” and “gem bag”. Small, medium and large versions of both are available. The small version will be awarded to those who complete, or who have already completed the low level intro quests. Medium bags are for sale at vendors, and large bags will be rare treasure. Each bag will occupy one inventory slot, while holding a number of gems or collectables depending on it’s size.
Yay!
I can loot piles of rubble again without shame!...No gem left behind!:D

but uh...all my bank and inventory slots are full...bummer....Better sell somtin before mod 5 goes live...

Freeman
08-06-2007, 01:30 PM
I hope this means you will be able to see them with the See Invisibility spell?! This spell does not appear to do anything right now.....and True Seeing also doesn't seem to reveil hiding crratures either.

Neither spell gives you ability to spot something that is just hiding or being stealthy. Now how they can stealthily run towards me in the middle of a brightly lit field without me seeing anything until they've hit me a couple of times is a different argument...

Coldin
08-06-2007, 01:34 PM
Neither spell gives you ability to spot something that is just hiding or being stealthy. Now how they can stealthily run towards me in the middle of a brightly lit field without me seeing anything until they've hit me a couple of times is a different argument...

They must all getting Hide in Plain Sight as a free 1st level feat. :rolleyes:

popltree2
08-06-2007, 01:35 PM
quick question so what if I do get lucky enuff to get a raid item spawn in my chest> Do I no longer get random loot also, or just the bound raid item..
ANYONE???

Talon_Moonshadow
08-06-2007, 01:43 PM
Even a mediocre axe will work..

ROFLMAO!!!

Sadly, it took me till reading the next post before I got this one :(

Talon_Moonshadow
08-06-2007, 01:54 PM
Neither spell gives you ability to spot something that is just hiding or being stealthy. Now how they can stealthily run towards me in the middle of a brightly lit field without me seeing anything until they've hit me a couple of times is a different argument...

I'm sure that both spells are supposed to in PnP. Definately True Seeing.
But part of my problem is that right now See Invisibility does not seem to do anything......at least not anything useful in the slightest.
true seeing only lets you bypass blur/displacement and show you secret doors.

Freeman
08-06-2007, 02:02 PM
I'm sure that both spells are supposed to in PnP. Definately True Seeing.
But part of my problem is that right now See Invisibility does not seem to do anything......at least not anything useful in the slightest.
true seeing only lets you bypass blur/displacement and show you secret doors.

Nope, neither spell helps you find creatures that are merely hiding using conventional techniques. True-seeing shouldn't even help with secret doors hidden by conventional means instead of magic ones. Do any enemies actually use Invisibility before they attack? I don't recall any.

Ithrani
08-06-2007, 02:07 PM
They must all getting Hide in Plain Sight as a free 1st level feat. :rolleyes:

I have gone over this 100 times and no one seems to get it. We all have hide in plain sight. Why? Because we all can HIDE IN PLAIN FREAKING SIGHT, there is no cover in this game. When you click on the stealth button, you are hiding and moving silently at the same time, you can be out in the middle of an open dune in the desert with the sun beating down on you bright as all hell and guess what, I hide. Thats not possible in PnP, but I know this is not PnP, fine they couldn't figure out how to do cover. Kinda silly I have played a game (Thief) where you have a gem that determines your level of stealth based on how dark or bright it is. Now here we have those eyes, they really don't mean anything, maybe once or twice while having 4 eyes I got spotted by a Fire Giant Champion. But regardless standing in the middle of a well lit room with nothing to duck behind or some really dark shadows to slip into I should not be able to hide at all, move silently yes, hide no. Turbine never seemed to understand that one skill has nothing to do with the other and lumping them into one "feat" is just a lazy way to fix it. So we all "Hide in Plain Sight" everyday. I would like this game to give rogues more reason to sneak and a better sneak interface. At least makes those eyes useful.

Besides that, See Invisibility and True Seeing are fairly useless in this game. All of the NPC mobs that are rogues can disappear and cannot be seen even with see invis, also incorporeal creature who go to the ethereal plane while fighting them should be seen with true seeing. Don't tell me the Bugbear assassin starting hiding and thats how he got behind me, cause if my rogue has agro and I hit hide it doesn't mean jack.... So he must be going invis to get behind me. But guess who see invis does work for, MOBS. How do I know this, well go out into gianthold and cast invis and run past a fire giant, they see you, how about this one, cast invis on yourself and HIDE. Guess what, they spot you despite sneaking past them with invis on. Why, cause I guess the devs don't know how to make see invis work properly with a hiding target so when it works for mobs it lets them see anything invis even if their spot is not higher then your hide, now that's ludicrous. Actually the complete opposite should be true since invis ups my hide by +20 and thats a circumstance bonus, ever hear of those Dev team, hmm hmm? Actually it is a +20 to the DC of their spot check but since it is opposed to my hide I actually get the bonus against any mob with out see invis. So while invised I should be able to hide and should not be spotted unless while unvised my hide is not enough to get past the mobs spot, since it always is I should not be spotted, but yet I am. Hide/Move silently/Invisibility/True seeing/See invisibility all need a good fixing.

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 02:21 PM
I have gone over this 100 times and no one seems to get it. We all have hide in plain sight. Why? Because we all can HIDE IN PLAIN FREAKING SIGHT, there is no cover in this game. When you click on the stealth button, you are hiding and moving silently at the same time, you can be out in the middle of an open dune in the desert with the sun beating down on you bright as all hell and guess what, I hide. Thats not possible in PnP, but I know this is not PnP, fine they couldn't figure out how to do cover. Kinda silly I have played a game (Thief) where you have a gem that determines your level of stealth based on how dark or bright it is. Now here we have those eyes, they really don't mean anything, maybe once or twice while having 4 eyes I got spotted by a Fire Giant Champion. But regardless standing in the middle of a well lit room with nothing to duck behind or some really dark shadows to slip into I should not be able to hide at all, move silently yes, hide no. Turbine never seemed to understand that one skill has nothing to do with the other and lumping them into one "feat" is just a lazy way to fix it. So we all "Hide in Plain Sight" everyday. I would like this game to give rogues more reason to sneak and a better sneak interface. At least makes those eyes useful.

Besides that, See Invisibility and True Seeing are fairly useless in this game. All of the NPC mobs that are rogues can disappear and cannot be seen even with see invis, also incorporeal creature who go to the ethereal plane while fighting them should be seen with true seeing. Don't tell me the Bugbear assassin starting hiding and thats how he got behind me, cause if my rogue has agro and I hit hide it doesn't mean jack.... So he must be going invis to get behind me. But guess who see invis does work for, MOBS. How do I know this, well go out into gianthold and cast invis and run past a fire giant, they see you, how about this one, cast invis on yourself and HIDE. Guess what, they spot you despite sneaking past them with invis on. Why, cause I guess the devs don't know how to make see invis work properly with a hiding target so when it works for mobs it lets them see anything invis even if their spot is not higher then your hide, now that's ludicrous. Actually the complete opposite should be true since invis ups my hide by +20 and thats a circumstance bonus, ever hear of those Dev team, hmm hmm? Actually it is a +20 to the DC of their spot check but since it is opposed to my hide I actually get the bonus against any mob with out see invis. So while invised I should be able to hide and should not be spotted unless while unvised my hide is not enough to get past the mobs spot, since it always is I should not be spotted, but yet I am. Hide/Move silently/Invisibility/True seeing/See invisibility all need a good fixing.
you do realize that there are 2 seperate things that appear under your feet. There are eyes, and there are "sound waves". Ive snuck around with a bad sneak and no eyes and have been seen. Its just a negative modifier towards your hide/move silently when you see the eyes/"sound waves" They do work. The problem is that i believe instead of rolling a d20 for their checks they have a hard number, so if you have a really good hidemove silently, then even with 4 eyes, your number may still be better then theirs.

Gimpster
08-06-2007, 02:22 PM
Do any enemies actually use Invisibility before they attack? I don't recall any.
Mephits, Efreets, Ogre Magi, Invisible Stalkers.

Freeman
08-06-2007, 02:25 PM
Mephits, Efreets, Ogre Magi, Invisible Stalkers.

In DDO? I didn't know we had Invisible Stalkers yet.

Coldin
08-06-2007, 02:26 PM
This brings an interesting thought back into my head. Wasn't at some point they were going to remove the whole "using switches breaks stealth" thing and implement a quick penalty on move silently and hide checks? Whatever happened to that? One of the main reasons stealth is so useless is that doing practically anything other than sneaking causes you to be seen, which is rather ridiculous in my opinion.


In DDO? I didn't know we had Invisible Stalkers yet.

Had them since Litany of the Dead 2. Go into the Tomb of the Shadow Knight.

Talon_Moonshadow
08-06-2007, 02:31 PM
Nope, neither spell helps you find creatures that are merely hiding using conventional techniques. True-seeing shouldn't even help with secret doors hidden by conventional means instead of magic ones. Do any enemies actually use Invisibility before they attack? I don't recall any.

Ok....I took the time to look them up. See Invisibility says it does not show things simply hiding. Trus Seeing is a little more vague about hiding, but does seem to show everything else imaginable.

So maybe it's best to address the previous comment about creatures running at you while hiding and casting spells attacking etc. all before being seen!

I'm all for not being able to tab to something hidden, but those invisible wolves running full blast through the weeds has got to go.

I also really dislike creatures that spwn out of nowhere when something happens.....you know, the ones that were definately no there until you stood in a certain spot on the map and now they are right next to you?!

Also, I would really like See Invisibility to do something in this game. Why have a spell at all if it is useless?

And what exactly does Listen do? As far as I can tell it just plays music.

Freeman
08-06-2007, 02:37 PM
Had them since Litany of the Dead 2. Go into the Tomb of the Shadow Knight.

Ahh, I guessed that would be where they were, but I haven't run those since not long after they came out. I have a couple of characters that need to do it for favor, but I haven't worked up enough motivation to actually go in those yet.

MathGeek
08-06-2007, 02:37 PM
Minotaurs may occasionally use thrown weapons if charging headlong at an opponent doesn’t seem to be working.

What does this mean? I'm having trouble parsing this sentence. Does it mean that they will be able to throw weapons while charging? Or by "doesn't seem to be working," are you mentioning a known issue?


The Gnolls that were erroneously spawning in a tent will no longer respawn.

I'm glad I didn't peek into that tent. :eek:


When items in a shop are alphabetized, they are sorted first by base name (e.g. sword, dagger) and then by prefix (e.g. masterwork, vorpal).

No question, just "yay!" :)


NEW - A Paladin's Aura of Courage will no longer cause various other spell effects to repeat over and over. The Aura of Courage bonus has also been changed to a Sacred Bonus to Will Saves vs. Fear, and as such, will stack with Morale effects.

How about the analogous Bless with Good Hope or Heroism bug?

Ithrani
08-06-2007, 02:42 PM
you do realize that there are 2 seperate things that appear under your feet. There are eyes, and there are "sound waves". Ive snuck around with a bad sneak and no eyes and have been seen. Its just a negative modifier towards your hide/move silently when you see the eyes/"sound waves" They do work. The problem is that i believe instead of rolling a d20 for their checks they have a hard number, so if you have a really good hidemove silently, then even with 4 eyes, your number may still be better then theirs.

I would think that after all my posts you wouldn't think of me as a newbie. I know all about the sound burst, trust me I am out of their listen range, I walk past them just close enough to not get their agro hidden/moving silently with the few eyes, and no sound waves and they do not spot me. If I go away invis sneak again and come even within spot range, and thats far for those giants now, much further then their listen range, they come running why? Because I am invised and it flags them cause they have see invis, but they shouldn't be able to spot me in the first place cause I am hiding. I know that their spot is higher then their listen cause I can test how close I have to be to make the sound waves appear (if I drop my move silent down) and it is much close then their spot range. And yes I have gotten past things with 4 eyes before, it is not a clear indication of how well you are sneaking and thats the problem, but of course you shouldn't know how well you are sneaking really since in the PnP rules you are told as a DM not to tell the player if they are hiding and moving silently, if they were spotted or heard, thats all about how you roleplay that, does the guard act coy, or does he shout, "There is an intruder out there!!!" So actually I retract the statement about having a sneaking gem or improving the eyes and sound waves, take them out all together, since PnP dictates I do not know if I am successfully sneaking or not. More PnP please.

And yes the eyes are negative mods to your hide, the sound waves are not though, that is enemies within listen range hearing your foots steps. If the sound waves happened when I cross a metal grate, like in Thief, or leaves and twigs then I would say oh yeah it is a neg mod, but thats not when it happens. The Sound Waves happen when I forget to put my ring of shadows on and I am sneaking with in a few paces of a mob, the mobs head perks up and turns this way and that way, put on the ring quickly, phew he did not spot me and guess what? no more sound waves

Ithrani
08-06-2007, 02:46 PM
This brings an interesting thought back into my head. Wasn't at some point they were going to remove the whole "using switches breaks stealth" thing and implement a quick penalty on move silently and hide checks? Whatever happened to that? One of the main reasons stealth is so useless is that doing practically anything other than sneaking causes you to be seen, which is rather ridiculous in my opinion.

Read what breaks invis, it sure ain't opening a door, hell I could bash one down and be invis even if the the door I bashed does hurt someone. From the SRD invis spell:

Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 02:53 PM
I would think that after all my posts you wouldn't think of me as a newbie. I know all about the sound burst, trust me I am out of their listen range, I walk past them just close enough to to get their agro hidden/moving silently with the few eyes, and no sound waves and they do not spot me. If I go away invis sneak again and come even within spot range, and thats far for those giants now, much further then their listen range, they come running why? Because I am invised and it flags them cause they have see invis, but they shouldn't be able to spot me in the first place cause I am hiding. I know that their spot is higher then their listen cause I can test how close I have to be to make the sound waves appear (if I drop my move silent down) and it is much close then their spot range. And yes I have gotten past things with 4 eyes before, it is not a clear indication of how well you are sneaking and thats the problem, but of course you shouldn't know how well you are sneaking really since in the PnP rules you are told as a DM not to tell the player if they are hiding and moving silently, if they were spotted or heard, thats all about how you roleplay that, does the guard act coy, or does he shout, "There is an intruder out there!!!" So actually I retract the statement about having a sneaking gem or improving the eyes and sound waves, take them out all together, since PnP dictates I do not know if I am successfully sneaking or not. More PnP please.

And yes the eyes are negative mods to your hide, the sound waves are not though, that is enemies within listen range hearing your foots steps. If the sound waves happened when I cross a metal grate, like in Thief, or leaves and twigs then I would say oh yeah it is a neg mod, but thats not when it happens. The Sound Waves happen when I forget to put my ring of shadows on and I am sneaking with in a few paces of a mob, the mobs head perks up and turns this way and that way, put on the ring quickly, phew he did not spot me and guess what? no more sound waves
Ive never even seen you before. i dont do background checks before i respond to people:D

Im being confused by your post.

are you 1)going close to them, pulling someone, then returning after going sneaking again?

or 2) going up to them, leaving them, un sneaking resneaking and returning?

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 02:57 PM
Invisible Stalkers are, at least, interacting with True Seeing properly.

Spookydodger
08-06-2007, 02:58 PM
How about they let shortcuts have things stacked onto them. Control+drag to shortcut and you add something to that shortcut. Saves a lot of work in the future for the developers.

drag weapon to shortcut bar: weapon shortcut.
control + drag weapon to existing weapon shortcut: weapon set created.


drag spell to shortcut bar: spell shortcut.
drag metamagic feat to shortcut bar: metamagic shortcut.
control + drag metamagic feat to existing weapon shortcut: metamagically enhanced version of spell shortcut made.

If they do this, they give themselves lots of flexibility in the future and save 6 metric tons of work in said future, as well.


This is an improvement, but it could be better.

Option 1: Make the UI smarter so that a Cure spell is heightened only if you both have Heighten on AND the only target is an undead.

Option 1b: Make the Heighten feat have multiple sub-feats which are different toggles you may use instead, which heighten spells according to different criteria. We could have Generic Heighten mode, Healing Heighten mode (cure spells are also Heightened), and even Absolute Heighten mode which raises all spells to the max poss level, allowing you to beat Globe /Mantle of Invulnerability.

Option 2: Allow us to open a config dialog box for each icon and drag in a list of metamagics to be used with that icon, each time it is cast. This would solve the problem of a wizard who wants to mix casting Fear, Hold Monster, and Flesh to Stone with Haste and Displacement: the buffs should be Extended, but the debuffs should not. So he has to stop moving and wait for the progress bar each time before he can buff.

Talon_Moonshadow
08-06-2007, 03:32 PM
In DDO? I didn't know we had Invisible Stalkers yet.

Ahhh!!!! we do! And I think I tried See Invisibility on them too! And guess what!?.........I saw nothing!

And someone else brought up a whole lot of points about disappearing assassins etc.

See Invisibility does not work on any of those things.

And every mob in the game has a ridiculously high spot and listen. It is virtually impossible to sneak by anything in this game. (ok, not really true, but it seems like it)
Actually it is really inconsistant and I haven't been able to figue out exactly what is going on with this.
I have successfully walked right past Hyenas and other stuff in the desert. But it has been a very long time since I was able to succeeed at being steathy in Steathy Repossesion.
And Giant hold is virtually impossible......about a 50/50 chance at most of not being seen. I can't be sure if invisibility helps or not.......sometimes seems to make things worse actually.
Very unsure about Camaflouge. Seems to help, but also seems to help when not in sneak mode.
Sneak mode being undone when even one guy has detected you and takes a swing at you.
Kobolds that look for you by taking random swings.....closer and closer to you, in a straight line toward you.
Move Silently is part of the equation defianately. My Silent moves cloak helped a lot in Invaders before they automatically knew where you were as soon as they took damage from Cloudkill.
I really hope they fix the cloudkill spotlight (bug) soon.....but I addressed that one a long time ago.

Ithrani
08-06-2007, 03:33 PM
Ive never even seen you before. i dont do background checks before i respond to people:D

Im being confused by your post.

are you 1)going close to them, pulling someone, then returning after going sneaking again?

or 2) going up to them, leaving them, un sneaking resneaking and returning?

First off , the two of use have had post in the same thread now for months, so if you did not see me it should be surprising but it is not since you obviously do not read clearly. I never said I pull anything read read read my post before commenting. I said I can sneak up to a fire giant with out drawing agro, then go far far away, cast invis on myself and when I sneak while invis within the a fire giants range it sees me, cause I am invised, and the sneaking part means nothing at that point. Thats broken and needs to be fixed. My point about the sound waves was very simple, they are not negatives, they are a warning that you are being heard and the eyes are not a warning but they are a negative to your hide. So you were half right when you said that the eyes and sound waves are negatives. I think I wrote my stuff out pretty clearly, but I will re-read it all to make sure.

Geez one typo and everything gets confused, here is the error that seemed to throw you off:
I walk past them just close enough to to get their agro hidden/moving silently with the few eyes, and no sound waves and they do not spot me.

Should be:
I walk past them just close enough to not get their agro hidden/moving silently with the few eyes, and no sound waves and they do not spot me.

I guess the "do not spot me" part at the end wasn't enough to make the rest of the statement clear.

Gimpster
08-06-2007, 03:38 PM
I have successfully walked right past Hyenas and other stuff in the desert. But it has been a very long time since I was able to succeeed at being steathy in Steathy Repossesion.
As always, 20/20 Hide/Silently bonuses will allow you to beat Stealthy Repossession elite without being detected.

If they catch you, it's due to player error and not your build or gear.

Ithrani
08-06-2007, 03:48 PM
Ahhh!!!! we do! And I think I tried See Invisibility on them too! And guess what!?.........I saw nothing!

And someone else brought up a whole lot of points about disappearing assassins etc.

See Invisibility does not work on any of those things.

And every mob in the game has a ridiculously high spot and listen. It is virtually impossible to sneak by anything in this game. (ok, not really true, but it seems like it)
Actually it is really inconsistant and I haven't been able to figue out exactly what is going on with this.
I have successfully walked right past Hyenas and other stuff in the desert. But it has been a very long time since I was able to succeeed at being steathy in Steathy Repossesion.
And Giant hold is virtually impossible......about a 50/50 chance at most of not being seen. I can't be sure if invisibility helps or not.......sometimes seems to make things worse actually.
Very unsure about Camaflouge. Seems to help, but also seems to help when not in sneak mode.
Sneak mode being undone when even one guy has detected you and takes a swing at you.
Kobolds that look for you by taking random swings.....closer and closer to you, in a straight line toward you.
Move Silently is part of the equation defianately. My Silent moves cloak helped a lot in Invaders before they automatically knew where you were as soon as they took damage from Cloudkill.
I really hope they fix the cloudkill spotlight (bug) soon.....but I addressed that one a long time ago.

Camouflage gives you a +10 circumstances (hey devs have heard of them) bonus which stacks with Hide Items, I think the item should be a competence bonus, but it may not be. Not going to look it up kinda unimportant but yes it should help, invis does make things worse though, cause again anything with true seeing or see invis can see you while invisible even when hidings with a hide higher then their spot. And to be fair invis stalkers also have an awesome hide, but any good ranger with true seeing/see invis in DDO should be able to spot them with out issue, unless elite and their hide is like 80, fine. But I doubt it on normal or hard their hide is higher then 38-45 spot that some 14 level characters have

Ithrani
08-06-2007, 03:57 PM
As always, 20/20 Hide/Silently bonuses will allow you to beat Stealthy Repossession elite without being detected.

If they catch you, it's due to player error and not your build or gear.

I have to agree with gimp here. That quest is stealthing 101, get past it while sneaking for about95% of the quest and you have stealth down. When I first made my rogue I loved this quest cause having to wait for the two kobolds going in opposite to pass the lever before using it, timing it all just right, was like metal gear solid. Thats all I think of while running stealthy repossession. I am a rogue/thief fanatic, I love good stealth games, Tenchu, Metal Gear, Thief I & II, Ultima Online had great thieves and stealth for a long time, then it was nerfed. There is a plethora of others, all great all fun, cause the stealth aspect of the game was done right. DDO only has that one quest where stealth is possibly useful to its full extent. But I have used stealth to do Made to Order easier, died after I got 2 of the crests but hey whatever works to get their first. Now had they designed MTO to utilize the full extent of stealth it would be so awesome for rogues. But thats a whole 'nother argument over how invis and hiding works in this game, becoming visible and un-stealthed when using doors blah blah blah... all that stuff that should be changed. If it was Rogue would get some respect for their ability to sneak and cut down on deaths and time it takes to finish a quest. God forbid we get a quest done to quickly, uh oh... Co6 Part 2 all over again. Devs use your heads a bit when making a quest, tanks and casters aren't the only classes.

Talcyndl
08-06-2007, 03:58 PM
And Giant hold is virtually impossible......about a 50/50 chance at most of not being seen.


While waiting for a party member to get to the quest, I decided to try and sneak to the top of POP on elite.

Granted, my rogue has a pretty good move silent and hide skills (and I cast an invisibility clickie), but I walked right past everything without an issue. Got to the top, picked the door and waited to be told what the valve placement was, disrupted the skellie, pulled the switch and dropped down to meet up with folks. Kinda fun.

Nataichal
08-06-2007, 04:41 PM
You know you have the metamagic system changes on their twice, right?

MysticTheurge
08-06-2007, 04:48 PM
You know you have the metamagic system changes on their twice, right?

I think they got bumped up from 5.1 to 5.0.

Quarion
08-06-2007, 05:07 PM
WOW! You can add toughness by changing your shoes!

Well, don't we all want more character customization options? :)

DNDJESS
08-06-2007, 05:14 PM
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills

Good. The software is in place, now just apply that software to duels.

Ziggy
08-06-2007, 07:27 PM
First off , the two of use have had post in the same thread now for months, so if you did not see me it should be surprising but it is not since you obviously do not read clearly.
if so have we ever had a discussion? probably not.



Geez one typo and everything gets confused, here is the error that seemed to throw you off:
I walk past them just close enough to to get their agro hidden/moving silently with the few eyes, and no sound waves and they do not spot me.

Should be:
I walk past them just close enough to not get their agro hidden/moving silently with the few eyes, and no sound waves and they do not spot me.

I guess the "do not spot me" part at the end wasn't enough to make the rest of the statement clear.
So you mistakenly write something wrong i ask you to clarify because its confusing and its MY fault?

gotcha, i wont bother responding to you again.

Have a good day.

GeneralDiomedes
08-06-2007, 09:38 PM
Ahhh!!!! we do! And I think I tried See Invisibility on them too! And guess what!?.........I saw nothing!


It definately works - they look kind of like a living displacement spell, or an evil cumulus.

With all of these additional changes to the game system (including the extremely cool changes to tab-targeting) .. I have to ask .. are we there yet?

Syrin
08-07-2007, 11:00 AM
In DDO? I didn't know we had Invisible Stalkers yet.

That's because doing any quest in the necropolis is like going to the dentist :(

Luthen
08-07-2007, 01:50 PM
Is there a solid date for Mod 5 as of yet?

Desteria
08-07-2007, 02:17 PM
The new metamagic system looks like a huge boon to casters to me, but I'm just a little unclear about the new Improved Heightening.

Wizard Improved Heightening II is now "Using the Heighten Spell feat costs you 2 fewer spell points per level of heightening."

I think this means that the lower the base level of the spell you are heightening, the more you will save on SP, correct? So if I throw a heightened web (heightened 5 levels from 2 to 7) I will save 10 SP, but if i throw a heightened disintegrate, I would only save 2?

If that is indeed how it works, it sounds like a workable system to me, although it's interesting that the enhancement offers more return on spells that gain a larger benefit from it's use... IE. Heightening a web is cheaper than heightening a disintegrate even though web gains 5 points of DC compared to disintegrate's 1.

In the end though, my casters will love this change :)

Well currently hightning level 6 epslsl with the enhacment maxed makes them CHEAPER then base cost and elvel 5 spells hightened are um memory failign 1 sp mroe then base I think, I will definetly miss this on my caster, BUT knew it shoudl never have worked that way and think this new system shoudl be very nice, yes with imp highten 3 lower level spelsl will be VERY VERY cheap fro there effetc makign low level CC very cheap CC and high levle damage spelsl very cheap damage(as the changes to highten adn max), I may have to try adn shoe horn some more lower levle CC in, though i love my otos disco ball, and FTS muchly :).

Dinatius
08-07-2007, 02:20 PM
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills.

Sweet... /bugged that in Beta ;)

binnsr
08-07-2007, 02:38 PM
Sweet... /bugged that in Beta ;)
ditto .. glad to see that they're finally fixing some of the 2-yo issues :D

Lucian_Navarro
08-08-2007, 11:47 AM
There is a god *weep*

My Bard can hold his head up high when someone asks "Can you buy 500 scrolls for me, please?"

<My finger is beginning to feel better already>

ICIRIS
"The Guild Banker"

blakbyrd
08-08-2007, 12:12 PM
NEW - It is now possible to trade a feat for a feat which can be aquired multiple times when the player already has one. So players can now aquire Toughness as many times as they like through feet respec.

Hehe, does this mean I can now trade in my two left feet for a left and a right?

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 12:23 PM
Hehe, does this mean I can now trade in my two left feet for a left and a right?
Somebodies about 2 pages late for the feet jokes.:p

I really wanna know how respec'ing my feet can make me tougher. :D

binnsr
08-08-2007, 12:26 PM
Somebodies about 2 pages late for the feet jokes.:p

Never too late for a feet joke!

CrimsonSeraphim
08-08-2007, 12:46 PM
Finally, right clicking for amount buying!

Finally, errors being fixed!

Yay! Spot and Listen now do something! Skills are actually being used...

wait.... wait.... there's something wrong... oh yeah... the rules changed again... and WE CAN'T RESPEC TO MATCH THE CHANGE...

Turbine, great job on these changes. Please don't screw over your fans by penalizing us for building to the rules as they were... give us skill respecs.

MysticTheurge
08-08-2007, 02:39 PM
Yay! Spot and Listen now do something! Skills are actually being used...

wait.... wait.... there's something wrong... oh yeah... the rules changed again... and WE CAN'T RESPEC TO MATCH THE CHANGE...

Everyone with an ounce of common sense knew this is how Spot/Listen were supposed to work. It's your own fault if you assumed you'd always be able to use mechanical means of locating enemies and skimped on the appropriate skills.

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 02:46 PM
Yay! Spot and Listen now do something! Skills are actually being used...

wait.... wait.... there's something wrong... oh yeah... the rules changed again... and WE CAN'T RESPEC TO MATCH THE CHANGE...

so which of your 4 characters in your sig can use either spot or listen?

Bards only have listen as a class skill.
What have you been putting your 6+ INT modifier skill points in?

I hope you put points in perform

binnsr
08-08-2007, 02:48 PM
Everyone with an ounce of common sense knew this is how Spot/Listen were supposed to work. It's your own fault if you assumed you'd always be able to use mechanical means of locating enemies and skimped on the appropriate skills.

His point stands, regardless of this mythical 'common sense' of which you speak.. This is remarkably similar the balance changes; once again, Turbine has changed the way that our skills work, without providing a way for characters to adapt (other than rerolling).

Just like the balance change, I'm sure everyone will adjust -- either by finding somewhere to squeeze in a spot item, or by putting skill points into future levels when they are available-- and in time, no one will remember that you didn't always need a +spot or +listen item on your tanks.. But, for skill-starved classes, it's goingto be a long, slow road having to maintain both balance and spot/listen as cross-class skills (paladins and fighters, in particular)

Gimpster
08-08-2007, 02:52 PM
Everyone with an ounce of common sense knew this is how Spot/Listen were supposed to work.
Wrong. It was impossible to predict how Listen might be involved in there- in fact, even now the announcements have not been accurate enough for us to know what it means.

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 02:52 PM
But, for skill-starved classes, it's goingto be a long, slow road having to maintain both balance and spot/listen as cross-class skills (paladins and fighters, in particular)
bring a rogue along.:D :p

have him throw a dagger at the enemies.

binnsr
08-08-2007, 02:52 PM
bring a rogue along.:D :p

have him throw a dagger at the enemies.
I knew I made a rogue for a reason .. Is it ok if he throws a shuriken instead? :cool:

MysticTheurge
08-08-2007, 02:53 PM
But, for skill-starved classes, it's goingto be a long, slow road having to maintain both balance and spot/listen as cross-class skills (paladins and fighters, in particular)

Uh... that's the point of some classes being "skill-starved." One of the D&D rogue's biggest advantages is the number of skill points she gets per level. The fact that for so long DDO required you to have so few skills was a huge flaw in the game.

Everyone (including rogues) should probably feel like they don't have enough skill points to do everything they might want to.

And let's be honest, you don't need spot/listen as a tank. You need it if you want to know what's sneaking up on you and when you're about to be ambushed. But you could also not bother with the skill and just get attacked. (And be glad that DDO doesn't have surprise rounds or "flat-footed" ACs.)

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 02:54 PM
I knew I made a rogue for a reason .. Is it ok if he throws a shuriken instead? :cool:
well if you must.:cool:

MysticTheurge
08-08-2007, 02:55 PM
Wrong. It was impossible to predict how Listen might be involved in there- in fact, even now the announcements have not been accurate enough for us to know what it means.

So this little combination from the compendium didn't clue you into the fact that listen might help you detect enemies in "sneak" mode?


Listen
Allows you to hear subtle noises which others may not hear.

Move Silently
Allows you to sneak past monsters, avoiding their hearing.

The_Hoff
08-08-2007, 03:00 PM
What a horrid proposed change to the raid loot system. People are leaving over this. I hope the devs reconsider.

binnsr
08-08-2007, 03:02 PM
What a horrid proposed change to the raid loot system. People are leaving over this. I hope the devs reconsider.

ehh.. people leave everytime they change something.. They could change the color of Cidonie's boots and someone would quit.

Just look at raids as a chance to group up with more than 6 of your friends and don't worry so much about the loot and you'll never notice the difference.

GeneralDiomedes
08-08-2007, 03:08 PM
So this little combination from the compendium didn't clue you into the fact that listen might help you detect enemies in "sneak" mode?

Actually i thought Listen already did something along these lines - increased the range at which the 'mobs are near' adrenaline pumping tunes started playing.

GeneralDiomedes
08-08-2007, 03:09 PM
ehh.. people leave everytime they change something.. They could change the color of Cidonie's boots and someone would quit.


And people come back every time they change something too :)

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 03:09 PM
They could change the color of Cidonie's boots and someone would quit.

THEY CHANGED HER BOOTS?

Thats it Im outta here (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/cute_kittens.jpg)

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 03:10 PM
That was the real meaning behind the feet/feat snafu -- there was a horrible collision in Quarions word processor and the two Notes got inexplicably merged..
DARN (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/065.jpg)

EDIT: Gotcha again. (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/ninja.jpg)

binnsr
08-08-2007, 03:11 PM
THEY CHANGED HER BOOTS?

Thats it Im outta here (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/cute_kittens.jpg)

That was the real meaning behind the feet/feat snafu -- there was a horrible collision in Quarions word processor and the two Notes got inexplicably merged..

binnsr
08-08-2007, 03:14 PM
DARN (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/065.jpg)

EDIT: Gotcha again. (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/ninja.jpg)
actually, I think that's the first time you've got me at all:D

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 03:15 PM
double post

Ziggy
08-08-2007, 03:17 PM
actually, I think that's the first time you've got me at all:D
maybe today

Mercules
08-08-2007, 04:41 PM
Wrong. It was impossible to predict how Listen might be involved in there- in fact, even now the announcements have not been accurate enough for us to know what it means.

Except for the fact that Listen has said it would help detect foes for as long as I can remember. Only recently has the manual changed to reflect the fact that it never actually worked that way. Also, there was a tool tip that said something about "Want to detect hidden monsters? Raise your Spot and Listen skills." So, it was pretty easy to predict how Listen was supposed to work and proving it to the devs that it didn't was the hard part. :p

Mercules
08-08-2007, 04:44 PM
And let's be honest, you don't need spot/listen as a tank.

Right, it could be like right now where 45% of the "tanks" out there just blindly walk past the mobs that just agro'd on the caster in the back of the group because they never bother to invest in the Spot skill or an item. ;) Except that now it will be 90% since that other 45% at least was clicking to "tab-target" hidden things.

Symar-FangofLloth
08-08-2007, 04:45 PM
I've had a decent listen on a couple characters and have been able to "see" stealthed monsters while they were moving, but not standing still. You sure it didn't work?

Mercules
08-08-2007, 04:51 PM
bring a rogue along.:D :p

have him throw a dagger at the enemies.

Why? We have voice chat. I have ALWAYS let the tanks know where the mobs are via voice chat.

"Two more coming in from the left."

"There is a wolf right in front of you Player1."

"Player2, watch it, two Slimes just came in on you from 4'o-clock. We wouldn't want that pretty vorpal damaged."

"Two more mobs."

"Two more, more mobs."

"Barbarian/Shaman in front of us."

Sometimes I'll shoot to unhide them, but I prefer to just let people know and keep the agro off me. My tanking characters tend to use spot items.

Mercules
08-08-2007, 04:53 PM
Just like the balance change, I'm sure everyone will adjust -- either by finding somewhere to squeeze in a spot item, or by putting skill points into future levels when they are available-- and in time, no one will remember that you didn't always need a +spot or +listen item on your tanks.. But, for skill-starved classes, it's goingto be a long, slow road having to maintain both balance and spot/listen as cross-class skills (paladins and fighters, in particular)

What?!? Min-maxing isn't all it should be? Gimping Int was a bad idea? Who could have predicted that? :p

Mad_Bombardier
08-08-2007, 05:16 PM
I've had a decent listen on a couple characters and have been able to "see" stealthed monsters while they were moving, but not standing still. You sure it didn't work?Same here. I have seen red footsteps from monsters, too.

Daerius of the Blessed Blades
08-09-2007, 02:45 PM
ehh.. people leave everytime they change something.. They could change the color of Cidonie's boots and someone would quit.

They say the best humor is based on truth. And you nailed it.

Thanks for the laugh! ;)

Talon_Moonshadow
08-10-2007, 12:45 PM
That's because doing any quest in the necropolis is like going to the dentist :(

LOL

Talon_Moonshadow
08-10-2007, 12:53 PM
Why? We have voice chat. I have ALWAYS let the tanks know where the mobs are via voice chat.

"Two more coming in from the left."

"There is a wolf right in front of you Player1."

"Player2, watch it, two Slimes just came in on you from 4'o-clock. We wouldn't want that pretty vorpal damaged."

"Two more mobs."

"Two more, more mobs."

"Barbarian/Shaman in front of us."

Sometimes I'll shoot to unhide them, but I prefer to just let people know and keep the agro off me. My tanking characters tend to use spot items.

It's hilarious to watch them turn in place.....looking around, but not completly believing you or taking any action, since they cannot see it for themselves. :)

Targitaj_Silverskin
08-10-2007, 01:57 PM
NEW - Monsters that are hiding or invisible can no longer be tab (or `) selected unless a player can detect the monster using their Spot or Listen skills

cool:o

Bizbag
08-13-2007, 10:18 AM
NEW - It is now possible to trade a feat for a feat which can be aquired multiple times when the player already has one. So players can now aquire Toughness as many times as they like through feet respec.

Feet Respec?