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Molrik
08-05-2007, 12:46 PM
Here is my Drow warchanter build. Let me know what you guys think and if there are any changes you suggest. This is not including any stat items or tomes.

I mostly am concerned about the enhancements. The biggest one I consider removing is bard charisma 3. Also, what does focusing chant not stack with? I.e. is it the same bonus as heroism, or my bard song?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Fenwyckir Ravenshire
Level 14 Chaotic Good Drow Male
(2 Fighter \ 12 Bard)
Hit Points: 126
Spell Points: 428
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 11
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 17 17
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 5 8
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 6 19
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 6 19
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate 2 3
Jump 5 12
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 6 19
Repair 0 0
Search 0 2
Spot -1 1
Swim 3 5
Tumble 7 19
Use Magic Device 6 20

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I

Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Improved Drow Spell Resistence I

Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I

Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Warchanter I

Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II

Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Molrik
08-09-2007, 09:59 PM
I seem to have rendered you all speechless, so no one has any advice or views on the build?

CSFurious
08-10-2007, 05:32 AM
IMO, you should go human, wf, or dwarf for a warchanter

other than that, you look like you know what you are doing

i am gong to roll a dwarf one day as a warchanter for those extra hp's

peace

hazur
08-10-2007, 06:42 AM
Greetings Molrik,

I would have to say that drow are my favorite race for bards. I mean, we can use all of their positives, and their negative doesn't hurt that bad. The thing I see the most on these warchanter builds is a lot of emphasis on constitution. Personally, I think hitpoints are not the all important factor on a character. I mean here you are putting con up to 12 using a lot of valuable points. I would stick with 8-10 con and use those points elsewhere, like beefing up your charisma by about what? 4 points? I also think the two weapon fighting thing is not what its cracked up to be. It costs you a ton of feats for...less damage than a two hander?

For starters on your stats, I would go this route:

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 18

This is if you want the extra con, otherwise go with 16 dex and 8 con, you will do fine either way. You are using too many points to beef up your con a marginal amount. Instead you could have a MUCH higher charisma and still be a crowd controller if you so choose.

As far as feats go, you waste a lot on the TWF feats here. If you simply change to a two-hander, you don't need all those feats, and you will still do probably about the same, if not better damage. Especially where you need power attack for the warchanter aspect.

This means you can also ditch one of those fighter levels and go 13/1, this gives you access to the next tier of spells. The one level of fighter will pick you up weapons, power attack and a few other nifty feats without diluting you too much.

With a balanced 13/1 build, you can basically do everything you wanted to do with this warchanter, and still almost keep pace with a straight bard.

Also, focusing chant stacks with everything.

Here is a basic makeup of a build for you:

Stats:

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 18

Feats:

Skill focus: UMD
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness or Spell Focus
Extend Spell
Empower Healing or Greater Spell Focus or Improved Critical
Power Attack

You can go with the focuses to beef up your crowd control further. Or you can go with IMT and Empower Healing for some more healing power. I think what everyone misses with the warchanter build is it supposed to still be a bard! We need excellent bard skills here along with some damage output. Take Improved Criticals for more damage output...or just use Carniflex.

You will be using your buffs to evade damage. Who needs a high AC when you have displacement? Who needs huge HP when you have damage reduction, usually resists and powerful heals?

Throw on a decent two-hander and you will not only be a powerful BARD, but a damage dealer as well.

-Booser

EinarMal
08-10-2007, 06:52 AM
I do not agree with the no Drow statement I think you made the right choice. If you work out the stats for a TWF warchanter they are essentially the same when compared to a 32 pt. Human. So you get either an extra feat for human vs drow rapier enhancements. The rapier enhancements are equivalent to 3 feats, weapon focus, greater weapon focus, and weapon spec for rapier/shortsword. If the human takes khopesh then they get close, but still do less damage on the offhand unless they can afford to dual wield khopesh but the -4 to hit penalty usually will make them do less damage overall.

If you are fighting two handed that is a different story, but for a TWF build Drow and Dwarf are the way to go for racial bonuses on both the main and off hand. The Dwarf works out pretty well if you can eat a +1 dex tome at creation and it is 32 pt.

EinarMal
08-10-2007, 07:03 AM
Greetings Molrik,

It costs you a ton of feats for...less damage than a two hander?

I think what everyone misses with the warchanter build is it supposed to still be a bard! We need excellent bard skills here along with some damage output. Take Improved Criticals for more damage output...or just use Carniflex.

-Booser

A two hander will not outdamge GTWF for a Bard, it ends up being about the same IF you can get a sword of shadows have 28-30 strength and power attack. The sword of shadows is an epic broken weapon that is insanely powerful, but if you cannot get that you will be doing ~20-30% or less DPS compared to the TWF. Not to mention the ability to stat damage and do many other useful things.

Using Carniflex as suggested above and you will do about ~30-40% less DPS than a TWF with GTWF and two decent weapons.

As far as still being a Bard, really that takes only two things, inspire courage and fascinate. Groups don't care about anything else. So the 2nd thing you bring to the group could be fighting (like this build) or casting and fighting (less effectively) and nobody will care as long as you use song buffs and fascinate (if in a good group who knows how to utilize it). Just avoid groups with LFM Cleric/Bard who obviously need a healer.

Do not use con as a dump stat that is terrible advice. You need all the hit points you can get displacement is not enough. Start with 12 con exactly as you have it.

hazur
08-10-2007, 07:22 AM
Greetings,

I don't know where you get your numbers from. I am assuming you just made them up. You can look basically anywhere and find that THF (especially with power attack) deals more damage than TWF. And even if TWF would somehow do 30-40% more damage, you are using how many feats and wasted stat points to get there? I would rather be 200% better at casting that 30-40% better at damage dealing. Con is not a "dump stat" but it is not important enough to devote 8 points to. I have been in all the elite content as a level 14 bard with 8 con base, 14 with my +6 item, 16 with rage and I have never seen an instance where 4 more con would have done me any kind of good. 4 points of con is only 28 hp and +2 fort save...not worth gimping your charisma. Groups do not only look for inspire courage and fascinate in a bard. That is a completely outlandish statement. When people look for a bard, they are looking for the do-all person, the ultimate utility service. BARDS ARE NOT JUST 2 SONGS!

Regards,
Booser