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View Full Version : What should I do when the cap is raised?



Poobah
08-05-2007, 06:58 AM
I am looking for some advice on how my L14 Paladin should progress when the cap is raised. The latest Paladin levels didn't provide much bang for the buck, so I am looking at splashing another class or two.

What can I do at this point to boost my overall effectiveness?

I am currently working on getting +6 Str, Con and Wis items to free up action points. I have enough trade bait and cash that I can get them - I'm just looking for a good deal.

I have had no luck with raid loot. When the chests actually have something I can use, my rolls suck.

I have a level 7 Paladin that I have been advancing along the same path as the level 14. The only difference is that at L14, I will manage to squeeze out another point of strength.

Any ideas on what I can do with the level 7?

If I backburner the level 7 and roll a new character, do you think it would be better to allocate points to Dex for the mithral AC bonus, or save the points and focus on putting the character in White Dragon armor?

Human, L14 Pure Paladin build

Str – 16 base / +5 item / +2 level /+1 Hum Str / +2 tome // 26 total
Dex – 11 base / +6 item / +1 tome // 18 total
Con – 13 base /+5 item / +1 Hum Con / +1 tome // 20 total
Int – 12 base / +1 tome // 13 total
Wis – 11 base / +4 item / +1 tome // 16 total
Cha – 14 base / +6 item / +1 tome / +3 Pal Cha // 24 total

Fortitude – 28
Will – 22
Reflex – 21

HP – 336 (140 base, 70 Con Bonus, 96 Feat, 30 Item)
SP – 301 (142 base, 69 Ability, 40 Feat, 50 Item)
AC – 40 (10 base, 3 Dex, 12 Armor, 7 Shield, 3 Deflection, 2 Dodge, 3 Paladin) 45 with CE

Favor - 2169

Feats:
Combat Expertise
Toughness
Weapons Focus Slashing
Improved Critical Slashing
Power Critical
Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
Draconic Vitality

Enhancements:
Attack I (+2)
Sovereign Host (+1 Hit with Longsword)
Unyielding Sovereign (super heal)
Human Adaptability Str I
Human Greater Adaptability Con I
Paladins Armor II (+2 AC)
Paladins Resistance II (+2 Save)
Lay on Hands II (3x total)
Energy of the Templar II (40sp)
Paladins Charisma III (+3 Cha)
Toughness III (50 hp)

Rag Doll Setup -
Helmet: Wisdom +4
Goggles: Spec Optics (Reflex Save +4 and +3 Prot)
Necklace: Con +5 / Golden Cartouche +3 UMD
Trinket: 50sp Gem / Bloodstone
Cloak: Resistance +4
Bracers: Chaosguarde (Dodge +2, Deflect +2, Resistance +2)
Ring Static: Charisma +6
Ring Swap: Striding 20% / Feather Fall / Underwater / Resurrection / Shadows / Balance / Mod Fort
Gloves: Strength +5
Belt: Greater False Life +30 hit points
Boots: Dexterity +6 Dexterity / Spiked Boots (no slip)
Armor: Mithral Full Plate +4
Shield: Mithral Shield +5

Borror0
08-08-2007, 09:24 PM
Ok, I'll tell you something. Currently, Paladin past lv 11-12 gives barely nothing. I *hope* that Turbine plans something awesome for level 15-16. I think it is simply too dangerous to plan what a paladin will be once the cap will be raised.

Back when the cap was twelve, the paladin was the king: decent HP, decent AC, tier one saves, resist energy, divine favor, contributes to the party with aura. They were the "awesomest". Now, GH introduced us to something totally different. AC is not worth it unless you get around 50, mobs hits so hard that high HP is more important. These changes made of paladins the new barbarians.

Few were rolled since 4.o, barbarians got more interesting: they have high HP, high damage potential, damage reduction... Their major downside? They got low AC, but who cares now, most fighters do not have AC high enough for it to matter. Now, was it a mistake from Turbine? Will Mod 5 and 6 will introduce a totally different metagame? No one knows.

Now, my advice, actually it's more of a question. Would you like to make of your new character something totally different? I'm asking you this question because what could be done is to make of your level 7 a totally different character. You could splash your level 7, make it something totally different, and keep your level 14 pure and wait to see what Turbine was hiding for level 15-16. I'm hoping that level 13-14 where a dead spot and that next level cap will introduce totally awesome new spells/enhancements.

Vinos
08-08-2007, 10:12 PM
What stat did you put your level 12 increase in? Doesn't say.

Gennerik
08-08-2007, 11:07 PM
...but Paladin is dead after level 5 unless you look forward to getting a certain spell. At least DDO added some things to look forward to. I wouldn't expect too many surprises down the road for Paladin, except maybe as an enhancement. You'll just continue to get a few more spells (that really aren't that great), heal more with Lay on Hands, and be able to Smite Evil a few more times between rests.

Vinos
08-09-2007, 07:09 AM
...but Paladin is dead after level 5 unless you look forward to getting a certain spell. At least DDO added some things to look forward to. I wouldn't expect too many surprises down the road for Paladin, except maybe as an enhancement. You'll just continue to get a few more spells (that really aren't that great), heal more with Lay on Hands, and be able to Smite Evil a few more times between rests.


You could say that for most every class if you look at it like that.

Dworkin_of_Amber
08-09-2007, 11:23 AM
Plan for Paladin 11, then Multi-Class for the final 3 levels.
Paladin 11 grants 30-point Resist Energy, and access to RoG/BoG 3.

Options for the MC:
Rogue 2 / Fighter 1- PRO: Grants Evasion, lots of Skill Points, Rogue DEX 1, +1d6 Sneak Attack, Bonus Feat, Tower Shield Proficiency, New AP's (Tactics, Crit Accuracy, etc). CON: Evasion requires Light Armor, so you need to find +5 Mithral BP or KDS for best AC, Fighter 1 doesn't grant +STR or FAM, -1 BAB

Fighter 3 - PRO: 2x Bonus Feat, Tower Shield Proficiency, New AP's (Tactics, Crit Accuracy, etc), Fighter STR 1, FAM. CON: No Evasion

Sorc 1/3: PRO: Spells, Spellpoints. CON: lesser BAB progression, lesser hitpoints

JayDubya
08-09-2007, 11:42 AM
I asked the same question when my Pally hit 11. I went w/3 fighter levels, and am quite happy w/that decision.

And I'm noodling with the idea of going rogue for 15 and 16, for evasion and UMD.

But I don't think I'd go back to Paladin. Nor would I go arcane caster, it's not really worth it.

I suppose a level of cleric would get me access to a lot of wands, but that's not very compelling.

Dworkin_of_Amber
08-09-2007, 01:43 PM
The Cleric level really wouldn't get you that many more wands... or at least not that many you would really want... then again, with 2x Rogue Levels, you should have the UMD anyways to use any wands that Clr 1 would get you.

If I was rolling another Paladin-type today, I would still go with the Holy Avenger template... but I would probably go Warforged, cuz I already have 2 human variants... and I would probably go 2Handed Warforged for the Lord of the Blades AP options... but 11P/2R/1F would still be my template. I think it provides one of the best all-around characters, good DPS, excellant utility via UMD, and great survivability via Pally Saves + Evasion.

I do have a template, somewhere or another, of a fully Rogue-Skills enabled version of the Holy Avenger (kinda like a non-Intimidate-specced Batman, but staing 11/2/1 split)... I built one, and ran him up to Level 9 before getting distracted with other builds.... it's a little Tome intensive, and 16 starting STR instead of 17, but it still works very well. Pretty much has to be Human for the extra Feat and Skill Point/Level, but it is an even more flexibable Avenger-series build. Only bad thing is that in order to Max DD/OL/Search/UMD, you give up Jump, Balance, and Spot... but we know where all the traps are anyways.

Note to self: That reminds me, I need to update the build above.

Gennerik
08-09-2007, 02:13 PM
You could say that for most every class if you look at it like that.

I was more pointing out that Paladins don't get anything new. There aren't any surprises past level 5, since beyond that, it's just incremental improvements on you existing skills except for maybe a couple spells (most of which a Cleric in the group already casts at the entrance, though Holy Sword is pretty nice).

Vinos
08-09-2007, 02:58 PM
I was more pointing out that Paladins don't get anything new. There aren't any surprises past level 5, since beyond that, it's just incremental improvements on you existing skills except for maybe a couple spells (most of which a Cleric in the group already casts at the entrance, though Holy Sword is pretty nice).

Again you can say that for all classes. What do you get as a caster? More spells, a barb? better rage which is only an incremental improvement to an already existing skill. Rangers get evasion at 9 but other than that it's just improvements of already existing skills. Most people do agree that post level 11(maxed BoG, RoG, DF and resists) pallies don't get much. They ust get another LoH and some decent 4th level spells

Gennerik
08-12-2007, 09:40 AM
Ok, I'll tell you something. Currently, Paladin past lv 11-12 gives barely nothing. I *hope* that Turbine plans something awesome for level 15-16.

Specifically, pointing out that Paladins will continue to get nothing new in response for the hope of something awesome. And there are a number of classes that get new things after level 11.

Fighters continue to get bonus feats, meaning that you can take combat directions that were locked previously, or get newer feats with higher level requirements.

Barbarians get Tireless Rage, which is new (and something I look forward to) and fairly substantial increases to their Rage, beyond just extra uses per day.

Bards get new ways to play songs in addition to their spells.

Clerics and Sorcerers just get new spells, but considering the power that some of those spells bring, they are something to look forward to.

Wizards get new spells as well as two more metamagic feats. Monks (once released) get something new almost every level.

Rangers get a few new abilites (Hide in Plain Sight, Camouflage) and more favored enemies.

Rogues get new special abilites as well as improvements in their sneak attack damage.

Paladins just continue to get more Smite Evils and Remove Diseases. The spells they get aren't nearly the power increases that other spellcasting types get. Paladins are really about the only class that stays fairly static past level 11, or at least level 14.

Borror0
08-12-2007, 06:12 PM
Specifically, pointing out that Paladins will continue to get nothing new in response for the hope of something awesome. And there are a number of classes that get new things after level 11.

Fighters continue to get bonus feats, meaning that you can take combat directions that were locked previously, or get newer feats with higher level requirements.

Barbarians get Tireless Rage, which is new (and something I look forward to) and fairly substantial increases to their Rage, beyond just extra uses per day.

Bards get new ways to play songs in addition to their spells.

Clerics and Sorcerers just get new spells, but considering the power that some of those spells bring, they are something to look forward to.

Wizards get new spells as well as two more metamagic feats. Monks (once released) get something new almost every level.

Rangers get a few new abilites (Hide in Plain Sight, Camouflage) and more favored enemies.

Rogues get new special abilites as well as improvements in their sneak attack damage.

Paladins just continue to get more Smite Evils and Remove Diseases. The spells they get aren't nearly the power increases that other spellcasting types get. Paladins are really about the only class that stays fairly static past level 11, or at least level 14.

Well, they could get new enhancements and they could implement interesting spells. It'd be simply bad design from Turbine to never give them interesting abilities.

Gennerik
08-12-2007, 11:57 PM
Believe me, I agree. Really, the draw of being a Paladin in DnD (for me at least) is that once you stop taking Paladin levels you can't take any more, so there is a prestige with being a Paladin. Considering that isn't an issue in DDO, and there isn't prestige with being a Paladin like there is in DnD (since actual Roleplaying is fairly skimpy), there isn't much of a reason to continue, and I'd love to see Turbine introduce some new and unique enhancements that scream "You should have stayed straight Paladin!"

Poobah
08-17-2007, 09:50 PM
What stat did you put your level 12 increase in? Doesn't say.

I think it may have been in Con.

Poobah
08-17-2007, 09:51 PM
I have been away for a bit and am finally getting a chance to follow up with you guys. I think that I am going to do as suggested and keep my main a pure paladin. For the L7, I will do as suggested and get to L11, and then splash. I'll check out the suggestions in the character builder and see how things look. I am leaning toward one of the paladin/fighter/rogue variants.

nbhs275
08-21-2007, 09:04 PM
Hmm... I personally like the 12/2 pally//fighter split right now. No evasion, but some great damage and defence. Some nice tidbits

30 STR standing, 40 max

Has a +29 to-hit and does 2d6+39(15-20/x3) with the SoS standing,
+35 to-hit and does 2d6+50(15-20/x3) with the SoS with full selfbuffs(no bard).

Can bring AC up to 52 without CE and no outside buffs.

300+ Hp
250+ SP

Very few Fighters can put up all or any of this.;)