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View Full Version : Enough undead. how bout some real monsters



GreatCzarsGhost
08-04-2007, 02:15 PM
This game already has more than enough undead monsters and update 4.3 looks to be undead centric in adding even more.

The new Giant/Dragon area was such a relief from all the undead but now we get what looks to be a whole update dedicated to a undead god and his minions. Come on already.

How bout some real monsters like Umber Hulks, Hydras, Owlbears, or Manticore. How bout some quests revolving around the war between the Githyanki and Githzerai.

Enough stinky rotting undead and more Goblins and Purple Worms and Slaads, and even a Tarrasque or two.

I say enough undead. Lets have a few updates that get back to real monsters.

Cowdenicus
08-04-2007, 02:18 PM
yeah but this is the culmination of a story arc, one I would like to see done.

There are plenty of mods to come....

MysticTheurge
08-04-2007, 05:14 PM
Word has it there's some fun non-undead monsters in the new update.

Bradik_Losdar
08-04-2007, 06:17 PM
This game already has more than enough undead monsters and update 4.3 looks to be undead centric in adding even more.

The new Giant/Dragon area was such a relief from all the undead but now we get what looks to be a whole update dedicated to a undead god and his minions. Come on already.

How bout some real monsters like Umber Hulks, Hydras, Owlbears, or Manticore. How bout some quests revolving around the war between the Githyanki and Githzerai.

Enough stinky rotting undead and more Goblins and Purple Worms and Slaads, and even a Tarrasque or two.

I say enough undead. Lets have a few updates that get back to real monsters.

Completely agree!

Furgulder
08-04-2007, 06:23 PM
I dunno, gives all the ranger/paladins with undead enemy some fun target practice :)

Swordalot
08-04-2007, 10:57 PM
I like the idea of a Terrasque.
Why? Because you just can't kill it without Wish-ing for it to stay dea. It'd make a great Raid-boss for a Tempset type raid. Just go in, fight to it, kill it, and quickly use the one scroll of Wish each caster gets at the beginning, good only for that use or rezzing a party member.

Woldn't it be fun?
"Nope. Can't rez you, gotta save it for the boss."

Kethir
08-06-2007, 11:57 AM
1. The problem with most classic D&D monsters is that they are solitary.

You aren't going to fight 200 owlbears. There is not going to be "Owlbear Assualt".

2. DDO has horrible AI. It takes 200 kobolds to create some "challenge" for characters in DDO as 10 kobolds could do in pnp.

3. Dev time is the same, whether there is one owlbear or 200.

Concl: Social monsters give more bang for the developer buck vs. antisocial monsters.

The way to solve this problem, and it is a serious one, is to focus on AI instead of new monsters. But that's hard to market/sell.

DZX
08-06-2007, 01:06 PM
1. The problem with most classic D&D monsters is that they are solitary.

You aren't going to fight 200 owlbears. There is not going to be "Owlbear Assualt".
.

Sorry but with four monsters manuals released (soon to be five) there are plenty of creatures to add that can come not only in pairs but in groups.

Achaierai: 5-8
Angel, Astral Deva: 2-5
Angel, Planetar: 2
Angel, Solar: 2
Animated Objects: 2-Any
Anhkeg: 2-4
Aranea: 3-6
Archon, Lantern: 2-5
Arcon, Hound: 2-5
Archon, Trunmpet: 2-5
Arrowhawk: 2-4
Asassin Vine: 2-4
Athach: 2-12
Azer: 3-100 (Damn perhaps these should be added, they can be the new standard swarm mob they throw at us in fiery areas)

Barghest: 3-6
Bassilisk: 3-6
Behir: Pair
Gauth: 2-6
Belker: 3-4
Blink Dog: 2-16
Bodak: 2-4
Bulette: 2
Carrion Crawler: 2-5
Centaur: 5-150+
Chimera: 2-13
Choker: 4-12
Chull: 3-5
Cloaker: 3-12
Cockatrice: 2-13
Couatl: 3-6
Darkmantle 2-15
Demons (Plenty of Demon Types): 2-10+
Derro: 2-20
Destrachan: 3-5
Devils (Plenty of Devil Types): 2-10+
Digester: 3-6
Dinosaurs (Plenty of these, great for jungles): 2-8
Displacer Beast: 2-10
Doppelganger: 3-6
Dragonne: 2-10
Dryad: 4-7

41 monsters types, A-D from monster manual I. 1/3 or so of the book. The amount of Solitary only I came across I could count on one hand. Overall there are very few monsters in the books that are solitary only.

The problem with why we have so few creatures is development times. It takes a lot more time to create a new monster from scratch, let's say a Bulette. As opposed to throwing a new skin on a current monster, dropping a template on it and calling it a Fiendish Troll.

With all these dungeons being done one by one and not randomly generated from a list there is less resources to put into the monster development i'm assuming.

I wish Atari or Hasbro would throw them some more money to increase the team size because the game would be a helluva lot better if we could get some more variety in monsters.

pastor_dex
08-06-2007, 01:09 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Githyanki

Impaqt
08-06-2007, 01:24 PM
Other than the Giant Skellys in Madstone, we really havent had much Undead since LotD2. We dont have a Undead Raid.....

Undead makes sense. to me.

Maybe you'd rather have Giant Rats? (Oh wait.. nevermind . lol)

Porkchop
08-06-2007, 01:53 PM
What about the feared ManBearPig? You wanna see some of that huh?

negative
08-06-2007, 04:56 PM
and even a Tarrasque or two.

Priceless :D

Edit: But to add the conversation, I'd love to see more monsters added. That is, after Mod 5 comes out and finishes off the LotD series. Of course, the whole request is pointless, since it goes without saying that the next mod will most likely feature new monsters, and they won't be undead (most likely).

AEschyl
08-06-2007, 05:00 PM
Priceless :D

yeah i found that funny too lol!

GreatCzarsGhost
08-07-2007, 08:42 PM
and even a Tarrasque or two.



Priceless :D

I had a feeling some pen and paper D&D players would get a kick out of the "Tarrasque or two" suggestion.

I must admit I like the idea from a post above about a Titan type quest where you would have to fight a Tarrasque (or two :eek: ). Maybe it could be designed so that part of the raid party would have to keep fighting and killing the Tarrasque while another group would go for a chest with a Ring of Wish. The Tarrasque part would be great for hack and slash mêlée types and the rush for the Ring of Wish might be geared to caster types. Both teams have to succeed to complete the quest. Maybe if the fighters all die, a gate opens up and the Tarrasque chases down the caster team and kills them as well and if the caster team dies the fighters can not complete.

Could be fun. much more fun than fighting a dgn full of zombies, wraiths, and the like.

blakbyrd
08-08-2007, 09:23 AM
Although I have a couple characters built for undead, I too would like to see some more new mobs as have been mentioned. There are alot they could choose from, but it does take time to develope new ones and also to develope the areas they will be in.

To be fair we have been getting a few new mobs here and there, some appeared to be new designs, some appear to just be reskinned old ones, and some new ones are on the way.

Turbine is showing the desire to introduce more as time goes on, however as has been mentioned they are also appearing to be trying to finish off some quest series we already have going before introducing all new ones (ie. the LOD series).

As for the Tarrasque, I am a little bit against that one...haha. Unless something changed in the 3rd ruleset, only one can exist, and as far as I know that mob never even made it over to the 3rd edition ruleset.

Actually I made up some new and fun creatures a few years ago for a campaign setting once which I think would be fun to play with (though probably very hard to code). Once I find them, I may post them if people want, as I have them done up entirely to be added directly into the Monstrous Compendium in Word format is anyone wants some new ones to play with for PnP sessions.

DemonMage
08-08-2007, 09:25 AM
and as far as I know that mob never even made it over to the 3rd edition ruleset.


Tarrasque 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm)

Aspenor
08-08-2007, 09:36 AM
even a Tarrasque or two.


There is only ONE tarrasque, and ummm...DDO characters could never beat him. Even with all our uberness, we lack the resources to destroy the Tarrasque.

MysticTheurge
08-08-2007, 09:53 AM
...we lack the resources to destroy the Tarrasque.

i.e. access to the Wish spell.

GramercyRiff
08-08-2007, 09:58 AM
There is only ONE tarrasque, and ummm...DDO characters could never beat him. Even with all our uberness, we lack the resources to destroy the Tarrasque.

He was joking about the "two" part. And the wish spell was also covered in his post.

As for undead, all I want is a Nightwalker and I'm good.

Where are all the Devils though? On vacation?

Laith
08-08-2007, 10:02 AM
Where are all the Devils though? On vacation?
they realized that they'd be lumped with demons as "evil outsiders" and are staying away to avoid the association. :D

blakbyrd
08-08-2007, 10:08 AM
I think "devils" will never make it due to it's association with a religious nature. Due to our over abundance of being PC nowadays, the introduction of actual devils might cause DDO to have to be stated as a 17+ game. It may also result in parents not allowing some kids to play. D&D has had to deal with the religious crowds referring to D&D as a devil worshipping game for so long I doubt they would ever place such things into DDO (applying names like Evil Outsiders, allows them to kind of skirt the issue though). It's all ridiculous, but I dont ever expect to see them in DDO. WotC is trying to hard to market to kids as it is.

Laith
08-08-2007, 10:14 AM
I think "devils" will never make it due to it's association with a religious nature.yes, because fighting devils is something the religous are completely opposed to... :rolleyes:

allowing you to play AS devils is completely different than playing AGAINST them.

you are probably right though: PC has made its mark. that is probably why there is no longer any association with "the nine hells" in D&D, and that eberron has a "realistic" take on religion, but devils DO exist in 3.5, and there's really no reason we can't put them to the end of the sword.

my comment was related to the fact that demons should be "outsider [evil, extraplanar, chaotic]", instead they are only "evil outsiders" (chaotic outsider bane should work but doesn't). there was mention of fixing this, though i don't think it went thru yet.

Vordax
08-08-2007, 10:15 AM
This game already has more than enough undead monsters and update 4.3 looks to be undead centric in adding even more.

The new Giant/Dragon area was such a relief from all the undead but now we get what looks to be a whole update dedicated to a undead god and his minions. Come on already.

How bout some real monsters like Umber Hulks, Hydras, Owlbears, or Manticore. How bout some quests revolving around the war between the Githyanki and Githzerai.

Enough stinky rotting undead and more Goblins and Purple Worms and Slaads, and even a Tarrasque or two.

I say enough undead. Lets have a few updates that get back to real monsters.

Mod 5 is going to have some new non-undead like the giant rats, flesh golems and gelatinous cubes.

Vordax

Drider
08-08-2007, 10:18 AM
I think "devils" will never make it due to it's association with a religious nature. Due to our over abundance of being PC nowadays, the introduction of actual devils might cause DDO to have to be stated as a 17+ game. It may also result in parents not allowing some kids to play. D&D has had to deal with the religious crowds referring to D&D as a devil worshipping game for so long I doubt they would ever place such things into DDO (applying names like Evil Outsiders, allows them to kind of skirt the issue though). It's all ridiculous, but I dont ever expect to see them in DDO. WotC is trying to hard to market to kids as it is.


Demons and Devils would have nothing to do with a game rating. Unless they were naked and looked like Pam Anderson or something. Woo.. Succubi. If it was it's "religious" nature that was the problem, you better take clerics and their gods out of the game as well.

Evil Outsiders are their creature type. As listed in the Monster Manuals. They are still called Demons and Devils in there. Most likely the reason we haven't seen them yet is that they are pretty brutal.

You can't have a Heaven without a Hell. It's a basic part of most religions. You can't have God then say there is no Devil.

Laith
08-08-2007, 10:22 AM
looked like Pam Anderson or something.ooh, Nymphs! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm)


you better take clerics and their gods out of the game as wellTechnically, they did take their gods out. Eberron really is a great setting. :)

Drider
08-08-2007, 10:25 AM
ooh, Nymphs! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm)


I'm a nympho.. that count? :D

Laith
08-08-2007, 10:27 AM
I'm a nympho.. that count? :D
that would upset the PC!

(i know, i know, i'm sorry)

Drider
08-08-2007, 10:28 AM
that would upset the PC!

(i know, i know, i'm sorry)


Panty Cops?

blakbyrd
08-08-2007, 11:00 AM
DOnt get me wrong, I am not advocating for not introducing devils. My point was largely based simply on a longstanding and misunderstood representation of what D&D is to many who really don't know what it is. Regardless such people are exist and some are very vocal about it, which helps to further misrepresent what D&D is.

Even in the earlier days when PnP D&D was called a devil worshipers game and such, the basis of what D&D was then and is now is relatively unchanged. Sure, such creatures existed in the game, but in most cases the game was players defeating evil, not the players being the evil ones (granted evil campaigns were done). But for many of the vocal religious zealots out there it doesn't matter, they will spout their misinformation and never be converted to understand the basic facts.

Even with the recent news of the couple ignoring thier kinds to play an MMO. The press still wants to demonize D&D and its like, and those who play such games. Introducing devils will only allow such people more false proof to spout their misrepresentations, and I don't imagine Turbine or WotC desire to feed them anything else to work from.

GramercyRiff
08-09-2007, 12:26 AM
I don't think WoTC really cares about their image outside of the gaming community. They know their market and and how to cater to them.

We already have Demons in this game. The Marilith is one of the most powerful Demons in PnP. I also assume that Reavers, Flensers, and Renders are demons as well since they have cold iron and good DR. Devils are not less evil or brutal than Demons. Both are depraved epitomes of their respective alignment. And Rakshasa which are neither proper Demons or Devils but are just as profane, wicked, and evil as any Demon or Devil. There was no call to arms, so to speak, with the current roster of Demons in DDO. So I don't think there would be any outcry if the Devils showed up. I really don't think it has anything to do with PC'ness. We just haven't gotten around to encountering them yet, ie Turbine hasn't desinged them to be in the game yet.

Outsiders play a big role in most campaigns as high level villains because they are quite powerful, intelligent, and are of the opposing alignment (most times). DM's get the most bang for their CR buck with almost all Outsiders as well. So bring on the Devils. Silver good weapons will be more useful too heh.

DBELVIN
08-09-2007, 12:19 PM
This game already has more than enough undead monsters and update 4.3 looks to be undead centric in adding even more.

The new Giant/Dragon area was such a relief from all the undead but now we get what looks to be a whole update dedicated to a undead god and his minions. Come on already.

How bout some real monsters like Umber Hulks, Hydras, Owlbears, or Manticore. How bout some quests revolving around the war between the Githyanki and Githzerai.

Enough stinky rotting undead and more Goblins and Purple Worms and Slaads, and even a Tarrasque or two.

I say enough undead. Lets have a few updates that get back to real monsters.


you got my vote

Bloodmech
08-10-2007, 10:36 PM
BALOR (demon with a vorpal)

thank you