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Dworkin_of_Amber
08-03-2007, 06:21 PM
Ok, with the gutting of the Forums, I can't really see what the current "template" build should be, so I'll ask...

Looking for a melee-oriented Rogue Build. 32 point, with +1 Dex and +1 Cha tome available. Assume the +1 CHA could be traded for WIS or INT if needed.

Needs: Maxxed out OL/DD/Search/Hide/Move Silent/UMD. High Spot. Decent Balance. Mostly Rogue (at least Rogue 10 for Improved Evasion), 2-Weapon Fighting

Preferences: STR-based, Decent AC (35-40 standing & unbuffed & unstanced), +6 Stat Items are ok to factor in, No Raid Loot in base build decisions.

Not Allowed: Raid Loot, More than 2x +1 Tomes and 1750 Favor Tome

Unimportant: Race

Can I get some ideas?

My thoughts are either Human (planning for the newer Human Versatility instead of Rogue Boosts, the extra Feat, and skill point/level) or Drow... halfling would be nice, but I don't think that will work.


Idea #1: Human Rogue 13 / Fighter 1


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter / 12 Rogue)
Hit Points: 140
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 11/11/16/21
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 13
Will: 3

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 17 22 22
Dexterity 16 17 20
Constitution 14 14 14
Intelligence 11 12 11
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 8 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 7 12 12
Bluff -1 9 9
Concentration 2 2 2
Diplomacy -1 -1 -1
Disable Device 5 18 27
Haggle -1 5 5
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 7 20 20
Intimidate -1 -1 -1
Jump 6 21 21
Listen -1 -1 -1
Move Silently 7 20 20
Open Lock 7 20 26
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 1 1 3
Search 5 18 22
Spot 3 14 16
Swim 3 6 6
Tumble 4 6 6
Use Magic Device 3 16 19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device

Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge

Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Devicee (+1)

Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I



Idea #2: Drow Rogue 10 / Fighter 2 / Paladin 2



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Lawful Good Drow Male
(2 Fighter / 2 Paladin / 10 Rogue)
Hit Points: 120
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 11/11/16/21
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 13
Will: 3

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 17 22 22
Dexterity 16 17 20
Constitution 10 10 10
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 11 12 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 7 20 20
Bluff 1 1 1
Concentration 0 0 0
Diplomacy 1 1 1
Disable Device 6 18 27
Haggle 1 2 2
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 7 21 21
Intimidate 1 1 1
Jump 6 9 9
Listen -1 -1 1
Move Silently 7 21 21
Open Lock 7 22 28
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 2 4
Search 6 18 24
Spot 3 15 19
Swim 3 6 6
Tumble 4 6 6
Use Magic Device 5 18 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers

Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Acccuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I




I'm not married to either of these ideas... just some to start


1) I like the idea of Strength-based TWF
2) I was also thinking maybe 2 Rng instead of 2 Pal - To get Favored Enemy, TWF, Rapid Shot for free, instead of Divine Grace (although +4 to all saves would be nice)
3) I also thought of Pal 3 / Fgt 1 for Disease/Fear Immunity... but I don't think it's really worth it.
4) I am not opposed to pure Rogue, but it seems that MC helps get to GTWF by L14
5) I am not stuck on all the feats either... SF: UMD and SF: DD may not be necessary... for a Human Least & Lesser Dragonmark of Passage would also be nice..

Just some thoughts for you all to chew on and help me out with.

sigtrent
08-03-2007, 07:36 PM
I really like that second build. I worked up a drow rogue 10 fighter 4 that was rather similar.

I tended to take weapon finesse because even with good starting STR I got a couple to-hit points out of it since dex is much easier to increase for a drow/rogue.

I have a 28pt character a bit like this at the moment. I really like him, especialy once I hit level 12 (improved crit and a couple very nice rapiers <+1 Flaming +5 sneak attack & +4 Shocking Burst Deception>. With those both in hand I can deal some hideous damage.

BTW I've found myself just wearing a fearsome robe most of the time (except when faced with critters immune to fear). Ive compared that to running with as much AC as I can muster and I do much much better with the fearsome effect than with 9pts of armor.

Roguewiz
08-03-2007, 07:39 PM
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Halflings Rule the WORLD!
Level 14 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(2 Fighter \ 12 Rogue)
Hit Points: 140
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 15
Will: 4

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 14 19 20
Dexterity 16 17 22
Constitution 14 14 14
Intelligence 14 15 15
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 12 12 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 7 19 19
Bluff 1 1 1
Concentration 2 2 2
Diplomacy 1 1 1
Disable Device 6 19 25
Haggle 5 11 11
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 7 22 24
Intimidate 1 1 1
Jump 6 22 24
Listen -1 -1 1
Move Silently 7 22 24
Open Lock 7 22 28
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 2 4
Search 6 19 23
Spot 3 15 17
Swim 2 5 5
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 18 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I

Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion (Rogue)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense

Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge

Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency

Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)

Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge

Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Evasion

Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I



Using this, you can achieve (With +6 items )

10 Base
+1 Size
+6 Armor bonus (from White Dragonscale Robe...not raid loot ;) )
+4 Deflection (From White Dragonscale Robe)
+2 Natural Armor Ring (Invaders)
+2 Dodge (Chaos Guards
+9 Dex Mod (+6 dex item)
+7 Shield Bonus

34 Standing dual-wielding (close to what you want)
41 Standing with Shield

The big downside would be the fact that you would have to take fighter at level 14, to achieve the 11 BAB necessary for GTWF. Doing so, wouldn't allow you to max the number of skills you want to.

Halfling Power!

Nymie_the_Pooh
08-06-2007, 11:19 AM
I would bump Int. My first rogue was a halfling with a starting intelligence of twelve. She is level nine now. I have search capped along with rogue skill search III, way of the mechanic, rogue skill boost, and some goggles that boost my search. I forget the exact amount. There are some even level quests that I was not able to find the traps at all until I got way of the mechanic, and even then just barely. I also have a lot fewer skill points than I am really comfortable with. Through that character I have learned that intelligence is just as important, if not more important than dex for a rogue. I will never start another rogue with an intelligence under fourteen. That's my personal feelings, but intelligence is just way too important for a rogue to me.

Rindalathar
08-09-2007, 09:15 AM
I did see that your not opposed to pure builds, so I'd also seriously consider it for a few reasons. I have a pure-class elven 14 (still 28 pt. build too) and he still kicks serious butt. Now upon creation I went a little heavier on str. (14) and con. (14) because I wanted him right behind the fighters for maximum sneak damage. I did have to sacrifice some Int., which for some people is a huge no-no. Personally, I've had little trouble. I still can't get the Cabal trap on elite, but it's close with a 55 search.

Thing is, at 13 you get crippling strike (-2 str. on sneak attacks) and who knows what we're getting when the level cap goes up, since we'll get another class feat. Only pures or someone who's taken 1 splash level with most likely get any benefit from it. (Support for your first build there then).

If you have a few tomes to use, like I had, you'd be surprised what a pure-class can do, especially in the damage category.

I think a drow or elf make the best pure-class rogues, simply because of the racial bonuses. At that point, you're choosing between spell resist. and longswords with drow or rapiers with elves. Take Improved Crit. Piercing and you're at a 15-20 to crit. with every swing of a rapier (mmmm....wounding of puncturing raps. are unbelievable at this point).

Anyway, just a few things to consider. Hope it helps.

llevenbaxx
08-09-2007, 10:03 AM
Thing is, at 13 you get crippling strike (-2 str. on sneak attacks) and who knows what we're getting when the level cap goes up, since we'll get another class feat. Only pures or someone who's taken 1 splash level with most likely get any benefit from it. (Support for your first build there then).

.

I thought they started getting their rogue special attacks at level 11. Is this not the case?

Rindalathar
08-09-2007, 10:43 AM
I thought they started getting their rogue special attacks at level 11. Is this not the case?


I'm not sure what you mean by "special". A rogue's sneak attack is an integral part of a rogue. He/she has this ability early and it scales up as you level (1,3,5,7,9,and 11) with the top end currently standing at 7d6 damage per sneak attack.

A rogue's crippling strike is a class ability that kicks in at level 13. This allows a rogue to automatically inflict -2 strength damage to a target, if that target has been hit with a sneak attack.

Does this answer your question?

Impaqt
08-09-2007, 11:08 AM
Have I reposted my "Holy" Variant of my Deathdealer yet? I will if I havent....

STR Based Rogues are tricky.... Especially if Dual Weiling due to Dex Requirements. You lose out on so much to get the STR up to a useable level.

I fail to see the reasoning behind many of the builds as well... L10 Rogue has 5d6 Sneak Attack Damage, Plus Weapon Damage, Plus any STR Damage already.

THe diference between a 14STR Rogue With finess vs a 28ST Rogue with Finess is 7pts of Damage per Swing... When you Hit... You give up 3-4 from your attack bonus (36Dex is Possible) over a finesse build as well.

Edit: Reposted my Hly Variant of Leesa

Seneca_Windforge
08-14-2007, 05:39 PM
Have I reposted my "Holy" Variant of my Deathdealer yet? I will if I havent....

STR Based Rogues are tricky.... Especially if Dual Weiling due to Dex Requirements. You lose out on so much to get the STR up to a useable level.

I fail to see the reasoning behind many of the builds as well... L10 Rogue has 5d6 Sneak Attack Damage, Plus Weapon Damage, Plus any STR Damage already.

THe diference between a 14STR Rogue With finess vs a 28ST Rogue with Finess is 7pts of Damage per Swing... When you Hit... You give up 3-4 from your attack bonus (36Dex is Possible) over a finesse build as well.

Edit: Reposted my Hly Variant of Leesa

Well, for one, it saves you from taking Weapon Finesse.

Also, you're losing more than 7 damage (which, by the way, adds up over time). In order to use Weapon Finesse, you have to use light weapons. If you go with a high strength, you can use better weapons to deal more damage. A dwarven strength rogue with a dwarven waraxe will be dealing some pretty impressive damage (the rapier may crit more, but combine the mere x2 modifier and the lower strength, your damage will be much less).

As long as you have enough dexterity to take the TWF chain and fill out the max dex on some good light armor...what does the super high dexterity get you aside from some skill bonuses (that are of questionable value)?

Impaqt
08-14-2007, 06:01 PM
As long as you have enough dexterity to take the TWF chain and fill out the max dex on some good light armor...what does the super high dexterity get you aside from some skill bonuses (that are of questionable value)?

It gets you a SIgnificantly better TO Hit modifier.

THe damage your "Gain" from using heavy weapons doesnt add up as much when your missing...

Seneca_Windforge
08-14-2007, 07:36 PM
It gets you a SIgnificantly better TO Hit modifier.

THe damage your "Gain" from using heavy weapons doesnt add up as much when your missing...

I have a paladin that runs around with a 20 strength and doesn't have a problem connecting with enemies. A 28 strength is plenty. If you're having trouble hitting, use some simple buffs -- heroism, etc. If you still can't hit, then you're probably doing something too far over your head.

Impaqt
08-14-2007, 08:21 PM
I have a paladin that runs around with a 20 strength and doesn't have a problem connecting with enemies. A 28 strength is plenty. If you're having trouble hitting, use some simple buffs -- heroism, etc. If you still can't hit, then you're probably doing something too far over your head.


SOme folks (Myself included) believe there is no such thing as "Over your head"...... Especially once your capped.....

Dworkin_of_Amber
08-15-2007, 08:50 AM
I don't remember the exact stats at the moment (as I am at work), but I went with a Human 10 Rog / 2 Rng / 2Fgt design.

STR: 17 + 3 (Levels) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 1 (Human Str 1) + 1 (Fighter's STR 1) + 6 (Item) = 30 (+10)
DEX: 16 + 1 (Tome) + 3 (Rogue's Dex 3) + 6 (Item) = 26 (+8)
CON: 12 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Human Con 1) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)
INT: 13 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)
WIS: 8 + 6 (Item) = 14 (+2)
CHA: 8 + 6 (Item) = 14 (+2)

Planned Level Progression
Rogue @ L1
Ranger @ L2-L3 (Get 2WeaponFighting for free)
Rogue @ L4-L12 (Get Improved Evasion)
Fighter @ L13-L14

Planned Feats:
L1 - Nimble Fingers
L1 - Skill Focus: Disable Device
L3 - Weapon Focus Slashing
L6 - Toughness
L9 - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
L12 - Improved Critical: Slashing
L13 B - Power Critical: Slashing
L14 B - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting


Planned Enhancements:
Rogue Skill Boost III
Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Fighter Item Defense I
Human Adaptability Constitution II
Human Adaptability Strength I
Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Way of the Mechanic I
Rogue Disable Device II
Rogue Open Lock II
Rogue Search II
Rogue Dexterity III
Fighter Strength I
Fighter Toughness I
Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

-------------------------

Should work out to be a 30-Strength Two-Weapon Fighting Battle Rogue, with 4d6+6 Sneak Attack Damage, and 60% Subtle Backstabber.

Disable Device:
---------------------------
17 - Ranks
3 - Skill Focus Disable
2 - Nimble Fingers
2 - Way of the Mechanic
2 - Rogue's Disable Device 2
2 - INT Bonus
13 - Disable Item
7 - +5 Thieves Tools
4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 3
---------------------------
52 Disable Device / 55 with +6 INT Item

Search
---------------------------
17 - Ranks
2 - Way of the Mechanic
2 - Rogue's Search 2
2 - INT Bonus
13 - Search Item
4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 3
---------------------------
40 Search (Is this enough?) / 43 Search with +6 INT Item

Open Lock
---------------------------
15 - Ranks
2 - Nimble Fingers
2 - Way of the Mechanic
2 - Rogue's Open Lock 2
8 - Dex Bonus
13 - Open Item
7 - +5 Thieves Tools
4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 3
---------------------------
53 Open Lock

UMD
---------------------------
15 - Ranks
2 - Charisma Bonus
3 - Golden Cartouche
4 - Rogue's Skill Boost 4
---------------------------
24 UMD - Enough to wield any race/alignment restricted items, and use Cure Mod Wands.