View Full Version : How necessary is balance skill?

08-03-2007, 03:42 AM
I have been having problems with hobgoblin and doggie trippers at the low levels, and it seems like once down I am dead. Is tripping common throughout the game? And is it worth it to go up in balance if it is not a class skill? I would really rather not have to take 2 more point of intelligence to get a half-strength balance skill. Any advice?

08-03-2007, 04:59 AM
Trip is pretty common overall, depends on the race of the stuff you're dealing with. Lots of undead quests, little tripping there (plenty of sound burst and holds though).

Balance does very little at helping you get up faster. If you've got spare points go for it, but it's not a great help.

08-03-2007, 07:34 AM
Hmm.. I dunno if I agree with that.

My fighter has the Hobnail Boots (+15 balance) and I can see a real difference in how fast he gets up. (goes from 3 seconds to 1 second)

My cleric, OTOH, has no balance whatsoever, and takes more than 5 seconds to get up.

08-03-2007, 08:48 AM
It's good to have your balance at 10+ (either through skill points or items), to avoid annoying situations where you stay on your butt too long.

08-03-2007, 10:22 AM
You dont need to invest in balance if you dont have the skills for it. As a fighter it is a must have. But if you just run CO6 till you get tha balance 15 hobnail boots you are set since youc an switch to them when you know you will be fighting hobbies, giants, and happy dogs of killer paw swipeing

08-03-2007, 02:38 PM
Thanks. Think I will just wait till I can get the boots then.

08-06-2007, 09:35 AM
My experience has been that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I believe the initial roll to determine whether you are tripped is modified by your strength or dexterity bonus, whichever is highest.

My observations are that my higher (20 or 24+) strength or dex characters (like a pure fighter) are tripped only a fraction as many times as are my low strength/dex (14 or less) characters (say a cleric).

Manuevering to stay out of the range of trip attacks can allow a character to avoid most tripping, so for example my cleric is rarely tripped. (Manuevering combined with positioning is a very valuable but very under appreciated, under utilized player skill.)

Once you are tripped a roll to stand back up is modified by your balance skill. My casual observation is that the threshhold for usefullness is a skill of 8. A higher skill, say 15, doesn't seem to get me up faster, but to get me up in the shortest time possible *more often* (say 4 out of 5 trips, vs 2 out of 3 trips). These numbers are highly subjective but I share them with you to give you a relative idea of the mechanics.

High balance can get you up faster (say in about 2-3 seconds vs 5 to 8 seconds or even 15 seconds with bad rolls.) But once tripped you are still down and out of the fray for 2 to 3 seconds. If you get tripped repeatedly this takes a toll on your contribution to the group. Solo it can mean a quick death. Best to avoid being tripped via a high stat or maneuvering.

I have found that avoiding trips or getting up quickly is important for characters like clerics where a missed opportunity to heal can be fatal for someone else, and on characters with poor armor class or armor class that depends substantially on dexterity (which does not apply while knocked down.) such as wizards.

08-06-2007, 09:45 AM
My high dex ranger (high balance) gets trip for a fraction of a second while my low balance cleric stays on his ass for ever (not good).

08-06-2007, 09:54 AM
Both my dex and strength are over 20 now and i still get knocked down (damn wargs, wolves and hounds) however since the dex boost i do get up a lot quicker. Don't know the mechanics or numbers, just that it is so....

08-06-2007, 10:16 AM
Trip is pretty common overall, depends on the race of the stuff you're dealing with. Lots of undead quests, little tripping there (plenty of sound burst and holds though).

Balance does very little at helping you get up faster. If you've got spare points go for it, but it's not a great help.No offense intended here, but this sounds like something a cleric/wizard would say. Front-line melee folks will tell you the opposite... balance is quite important throughout the game.

Running the Reaver's Fate with my barbarian, I always swap out my seal of the earth for the invaders ring (has a nice + to balance). Despite having a 42 strength when cranked, he still gets knocked down here and there... but with that ring on (and my skill point investments), he gets right back up.

Now that's the end game raid currently. Giants are well known for their stomps that knock you on your rear, and the current end-game area is called "Gianthold".

List of things that high balance makes easier:
- Giants
- Hobgoblins
- Wolves
- Minotaurs
- Air Elementals
- Orcs
- Titan (don't need much here though, just a couple points and a GH)

You can find most of these mobs at all levels of the game.

08-06-2007, 10:17 AM
You forgot

toaster dogs grease
d queen
o yea I think this to white dragons room in pre

08-06-2007, 10:25 AM
Balance is one place where I think they should make a further deviation from PnP. Since they have house ruled that a Balance check is required to stand back up (no check is required in PnP) they should also extend which classes have access to Balance as a a class skill. This is a skill that is not vital to melee in PnP, but has become so in DDO. Balance should be added to the class skill list for Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, and Rangers.

08-06-2007, 10:31 AM
I so agree

08-06-2007, 12:25 PM
I most agree as well. I would love to see this extend to clerics also but I understand there class skills and rolls have to be respected.

08-06-2007, 12:56 PM
My main, Raquelis, has a 30 dex and I get tripped non-stop. However, I almost immeditally get back up (+36 Balance)...unless I got 7 wolves around me...bad idea, trust me :(

Also, keep in mind, in PnP...Unless you have kip-up, trying to get up from prone while in melee range, provokes an attack of opportunity.

I'd like to see it require a balance check to be tripped, but honestly, wouldn't make much of a difference. All Turbine would do is give all the mobs some kind of extra bonus to trip you.