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Shecky
08-01-2007, 12:07 PM
A lot of people (myself not really included; I'm just posting this as a "what if" idea) are upset one way or another with either the old or the new raid loot systems. A number of those have proposed that we switch to a "token" system in which each time the character goes on that raid, he gets a token, and turning in X number of tokens will get him a/his choice of raid loot.

I'd like to offer a slightly modified version of this, based on the new mechanic that will be coming out soon. In this version, when each player opens the chest to see the items reserved for him, he could choose either to take that loot or to forego it in favor of receiving one of those "loot tokens".

This way, you'd at least have a shot at raid-specific loot, but you could also choose to take the route of patience if you find that the chest is offering you something utterly useless to you.

How does this sound, a combo of the everyone-has-a-chance and the token systems?

djinni69
08-01-2007, 01:07 PM
How about this, Shecky?

When opening the chest, get a choice before seeing the loot:
1 - Roll the dice, 1 in 6 chance for raid loot right here, right now
2 - Get a token

That way, we don't have to grind if we don't wanna but we still have a chance at raid loot. Grinding is the debil, Bobby!!! It's the DEBIL!!!!

Is that what you meant? Just clarifying :)

Borror0
08-01-2007, 01:18 PM
If you ask me, the only problem with the system is that you now got lower chances at getting the loot you want. Changing from a 1/6 chance to a 1/4 chance would be alright. Like this, 8 man groups got 2 items and 12 groups got 3... in average. The randomness will do the rest. Right now, the new system penalise the smaller guilds.

The thing I don't like with the token system is that you:

1. Either get to choose the loot you want, for example a barbarian would turn his token for a SoS and a cleric for the helm.
2. Either get some random loot that might not be useful for you.

djinni69
08-01-2007, 01:26 PM
I think grinding the raid would be acceptable, as long as you are getting tokens for the right to choose your loot. I know there's people out there that have run the Dragon tons of times, just for the offchance of getting SoS. Tell them they have to run it 20 times for a guaranteed SoS, and I think the backlash would be less than it is right now.

For a casual raider like myself, I prefer the 1 and 6 chance right now. Best of both worlds, I think.

Hafeal
08-01-2007, 01:27 PM
I have to say I like the token system when it was first proposed several months ago. I don't mind your tweak of it.

However, IF the dev intent is to reduce the amount of RAID loot in the game, a token system is probably not in the cards. I would say the circumstantial evidence supports this since the devs have never commented or shown any support for token system. :(



A lot of people (myself not really included; I'm just posting this as a "what if" idea) are upset one way or another with either the old or the new raid loot systems. A number of those have proposed that we switch to a "token" system in which each time the character goes on that raid, he gets a token, and turning in X number of tokens will get him a/his choice of raid loot.

I'd like to offer a slightly modified version of this, based on the new mechanic that will be coming out soon. In this version, when each player opens the chest to see the items reserved for him, he could choose either to take that loot or to forego it in favor of receiving one of those "loot tokens".

This way, you'd at least have a shot at raid-specific loot, but you could also choose to take the route of patience if you find that the chest is offering you something utterly useless to you.

How does this sound, a combo of the everyone-has-a-chance and the token systems?

Shecky
08-01-2007, 09:42 PM
How about this, Shecky?

When opening the chest, get a choice before seeing the loot:
1 - Roll the dice, 1 in 6 chance for raid loot right here, right now
2 - Get a token

That way, we don't have to grind if we don't wanna but we still have a chance at raid loot. Grinding is the debil, Bobby!!! It's the DEBIL!!!!

Is that what you meant? Just clarifying :)

Yeah, that's not quite what I meant, but that's an improvement on my idea, so I'll own it. :D

Tm, I can't see how it would significantly lower the amount of raid loot in the game; enough people have crunched the numbers enough to convince me of that. I hope that wasn't the devs' intention...

Uska
08-02-2007, 01:02 AM
A bit better since I hate and loath token systems.

Shecky
08-02-2007, 06:20 AM
A bit better since I hate and loath token systems.

I'm not too fond of the token idea myself, but as someone who's been to the dragon so many times that she sighs, "You again?" whenever I step onto the island, yet who has never gotten any of the GOOD loot (haven't even seen some of 'em drop at all), I can understand how some people want to circumvent sheer bad luck. This method would let you choose on the spot; while there would certainly be an amount of mini-grinding if such a method were implemented, you wouldn't have to hit it 60-180 times as with the relics grind.

djinni69
08-02-2007, 06:28 AM
Other than sheer luck, you have to run the dragon quite a few times to get the SoS (or helm, or any specific desired loot) anyway. So why not say, "If you want a guaranteed piece of loot, you gotta run it 20 times for 20 tokens" or something along those lines. Otherwise, you get a 16% chance, right here right now :)

I think I could get on board with that!

Perhaps make the odds even with difficulty too? For example, 1 in 6 for Normal, 1 in 4 for Hard and 1 in 2 for Elite? Those numbers are arbitrary, but you get my meaning ;)

Shecky
08-02-2007, 11:33 AM
I could live with that - I have severe rollio. As things stand now, with a 1 in 6 chance of everyone in the party getting a piece of raid loot, I think our guild is going to be POUNDING the raids from now on - we'll swap out the items according to need/possession (i.e., if you already have it, you don't need another LOL). We're bound to have some people with semipermanent rollio (=me, but when it goes into remission, it goes away BIG-TIME) but we also have some loot-blessed sorts.

But with a token system that GUARANTEES you'll get what you're looking for after running it X times, I think we'd wear the raids slick. :D

Talson
08-02-2007, 11:44 AM
Shecky,

Here are my only caveats about the tokens which I brought up yesterday...

1st There would need to be tokens for each quest so that they were treated differently...

2nd They would have to be bound no trading of tokens from one character to another on the account or between accounts...

3rd If you choose to take raid loot from the quest (someone decided they're mage couldn't use the SOS) and you won the roll off your tokens for the quest are cleared...

Take it easy
-Tal

djinni69
08-02-2007, 11:44 AM
severe rollio ... BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! That's classic :)

djinni69
08-02-2007, 11:46 AM
Shecky,

Here are my only caveats about the tokens which I brought up yesterday...

1st There would need to be tokens for each quest so that they were treated differently...
Yea, I see what you mean. Perhaps the new collectable containers can play a role in minimizing this effect?

2nd They would have to be bound no trading of tokens from one character to another on the account or between accounts...
I agree 100%

3rd If you choose to take raid loot from the quest (someone decided they're mage couldn't use the SOS) and you won the roll off your tokens for the quest are cleared...
Hmm, gonna have to consider this one. I like your idea, and can't think of any better alternative. How about a trading mechanism that works like escrow? Once they mark there loot for trade (instead of simply assigning it to another player), the trade is not completed until the player sends their tokens in return? Just brainstorming here ...

Take it easy
-Tal

Replies in Blue ;)

Rekker
08-02-2007, 11:52 AM
The warded chest contains all of the raid items for that chest.

The 2 chests beside the warded chest have a chance to generate a glyph.

If you don't get a glyph you get a token, 1 on normal, 2 on hard 3 on elite.

Have an option on the quest giver to turn in tokens for the item of choice at 20 token cost.

Shecky
08-02-2007, 12:15 PM
Shecky,

Here are my only caveats about the tokens which I brought up yesterday...

1st There would need to be tokens for each quest so that they were treated differently...

2nd They would have to be bound no trading of tokens from one character to another on the account or between accounts...

3rd If you choose to take raid loot from the quest (someone decided they're mage couldn't use the SOS) and you won the roll off your tokens for the quest are cleared...

Take it easy
-Tal

Pretty good. The only modification I would propose is that when the player clicks on the raid chest, they get a pop-up box asking whether they want the token or the loot. I'm greedy; I'd like at least a LOOK at my possible loot before choosing the token. :D


severe rollio ... BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! That's classic :)

Merely descriptive. Our PnP DM used it to describe me when 1) I rolled 2 1s in a row (ended up dying as a result) and 2) I rolled a 66 on the Arms & Claw Law fumble chart (suffice it to say that you're dead, dead, dead). As a general rule, I'm just plain unlucky.


The warded chest contains all of the raid items for that chest.

The 2 chests beside the warded chest have a chance to generate a glyph.

If you don't get a glyph you get a token, 1 on normal, 2 on hard 3 on elite.

Have an option on the quest giver to turn in tokens for the item of choice at 20 token cost.

Hmm. I'll noodle this one, but I'll say it's promising.

Prinstoni
08-02-2007, 01:02 PM
Other than sheer luck, you have to run the dragon quite a few times to get the SoS (or helm, or any specific desired loot) anyway. So why not say, "If you want a guaranteed piece of loot, you gotta run it 20 times for 20 tokens" or something along those lines. Otherwise, you get a 16% chance, right here right now :)

I think I could get on board with that!

Perhaps make the odds even with difficulty too? For example, 1 in 6 for Normal, 1 in 4 for Hard and 1 in 2 for Elite? Those numbers are arbitrary, but you get my meaning ;)

The probability of you getting loot on the dragon and then getting the loot you want in the same pull is

P (A+B)= P(A)*P(B)

1/6 (not the current system, but we will go with that as this is what will likely be the system)

Probability of two independent events occuring on the VON series

Event 1 you get a named loot 1/6
Event 2 you get the loot you want 1/19 (there are 19 dragon items that drop you have a 1/19 chance to get the one you want)

Probability of both occuring under new system = 1/6*1/19 =1/114=.00877 or 0.877%

Maybe it is just me, but you probably have a better chance of winning the lottery... :)

Prinstoni
08-02-2007, 01:11 PM
Oh the current system is this.

Event 1 2/19
Event 2 number of people in your party say 12 (and you get the loot)

P = 2/19* 1/12 = 0.0087719 or 0.877%

See a trend. Any less than 12 in your party with the current system your odds go up, and any less than 12 in your party with the new system and you odds go down. (both ways of course assume that you are free trading loot /roll on everything which neither system will do anyway)

You are forgeting about the "me" factor of the new system as opposed to the "we" factor of the old system.