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maddong
08-01-2007, 11:44 AM
This is a build I've rolled up.
Halfling 13 cleric/1 wizard (after the level cap goes up you'd be better off as full cleric so I'm actually going to do that).

S 10
D 10
C 14
I 12 (max concentration, jump, and balance... personal preference)
W 18 (increase with levels... you want this because you are going to need to use your mana for offense to have something to do with it)
C 10

Feats: Least House J Dragonmark, Empower Healing, Lesser House J Dragonmark, Greater House J Dragonmark, Maximize
(if you go 1 wizard you take empower with your metamagic)

Enhancements:
Extra Dragonmark IV (10)
Life Magic IV (10)
Energy of the Zealot 4 (10)
Cleric Wisdom 2 (6)
Unyielding Sovereignty (6... another full heal)
+ personal preference (DVs, criticals on healing, etc)

This assumes you are 13/1 or post cap increase:
---
So you get 9 cure lights, 7 cure serious, and 5 heals that are AFFECTED BY METAMAGICS WITH NO MANA COST.
Cure light = avg 9.5 * 4.5 * 1.9 (superior devotion and life IV) = 81
Cure serious = avg 27.5 * 4.5 * 1.9 = 235
Heal = 140 * 1.5 * 1.9 = 399 (without a crit)
Unyielding Sovereignty gives you another full heal/full restore for free.

Since your cure lights are essentially heals lets just compare it to a cleric that is only using heal for ultimate mana efficiency. You essentially have 23 heals for free = 805 mana.

Plus you can take care of those dwarf fighter/barb toughness hp bastards better than a regular cleric. I'm rolling mine now.

maddong
08-01-2007, 02:43 PM
Fixed my bad math.

Nymie_the_Pooh
08-02-2007, 04:19 AM
Personally, I'd only go with the 18 wisdom if I was going for an offensive caster. The mana gain between eighteen and sixteen isn't game breaking, and the six points of stats can be spent elsewhere. Being a halfling, a strength of ten can cause problems when wearing fullplate and carrying a shield. My halfling cleric is still a lowbie, but here are the stats I started with.

Strength 12
Dexterity 10
Constitution 12
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 16
Charisma 14

I made the character before the dragonmarks were introduced. If I was starting over I might consider swapping the con and int scores. My build was to try for a balance to fulfill a few roles while yours strikes me more as an offensive caster that takes the dragonmarks so as to heal without using up your mana.

I considered talking to Fred to pick them up, but I have never had a problem keeping up with the healing between my spells and divine healing once my feats and enhancements are figured in. Most of my spells are buffs and heals, but I will occasionally use an offensive spell. Spell DC is the only reason I would personally take my wisdom to 18. If my math is correct, the twenty three extra mana at level fourteen is not worth the other sacrifices to me.

Please, let me know how well the dragonmarks work out for you. I am still tempted to get them, but haven't really been able to justify them since I can keep a party fully buffed and still heal without them. I cut it close with the mana at times however,

maddong
08-02-2007, 10:25 AM
Currently I'm only level 4. But improved empowered healing works with them as advertised. Level 6 and 9 will be major healing increases. Level 12 will be sick with maximize. I'll probably spend most of my mana on destructs which is why I want the 18 wis.

Fennario
08-02-2007, 11:44 AM
Currently I'm only level 4. But improved empowered healing works with them as advertised. Level 6 and 9 will be major healing increases. Level 12 will be sick with maximize. I'll probably spend most of my mana on destructs which is why I want the 18 wis.

Maximize affects your heal spells? Just curious as I am going to roll up my first ever cleric, and your build looks interesting.

GeneralDiomedes
08-02-2007, 11:49 AM
I'm thinking I would need to buy a gaming keypad.

EDIT: I wonder if Dragonmark abilities would be affected by a Quell's Intercession?

wiglin
08-03-2007, 12:05 AM
Maximize does not affect the heal dragonmark, but empower healing does. Maximise does however increase the clw and csw dragonmarks, effectivly giving halfling clerics (or wizards with feats to spare) some nice sp free healing.

Mad_Bombardier
08-03-2007, 10:22 AM
Maximize does not affect the heal dragonmark, but empower healing does. Maximise does however increase the clw and csw dragonmarks, effectively giving halfling clerics (or wizards with feats to spare) some nice sp free healing.Ahh yes, Maximize only affects variable output spells and Empower Healing is a special case with Heal. Nice catch wiglin!

Shade
08-04-2007, 12:23 AM
This looks like an awesome build.

800 SP is way better then that **** toughness gives you, what 140.. Pathetic.
Plus you get maximize for excellent offensive casting ability.

Missing extend which sucks but oh well no room for it less u wanna be a pure heal/buff bot and drop maximize.

Ilandrya
08-04-2007, 12:17 PM
If you are even thinking going offensive caster, you should max out wisdom... any time you make an offensive caster type the main stat for that class should be maxed.

If you are going offensive caster, you also want to go with a superior potency item, high as you can get. (Currently I think thats VII, but I believe those only drop on +1 loot weekends, and are very rare... min lvl 14.) This affects offensive spells up to the level on the potency item (If those spells can be affected by the maximize meta magic, potency will also affect them.) It also affects healing spells the same way devotion items do, but doesn't stack with devotion, so you only need the potency item if its as good or better than your devotion item. If you are going with a non offensive casting cleric, a devotion item will suffice... potency doesn't provide an additional benefit to non offensive casters.

Currently the max possible wis at lvl 14 is 33 for everything but humans, who can obtain 34. (In both cases, thats if you get lucky enough to get a +3 wis tome from the Reaver raid.) As things currently stand, humans are the best class for offensive casting clerics, and dwarves make the best "battle" (melee) clerics.

Also worth noting, with the release of 5.0, it is my understanding that unnatural charisma will affect the amount of turns/dv's available to you. Currently only creation stat points, levelling stat points, and tomes affect this. After 5.0 comes out, charisma enhancements and a charisma item will also affect this.

There are also upcoming changes in 5.0 to the meta magic system and how it will affect spell point costs, which are changing. (You can read info about this on the test server forum.) This may impact which feats you decide to utilize.

Interesting build. Since I heal mainly with wands and the heal spell and scrolls, I don't use much mana for healing as it is unless the group is really, really, bad... I prefer to use most of my mana for buffing, crowd control, (I have one spell pen feat, +2 to spell pen on enhancements, and a +2 spell pen VII item... with this you can even put a group of jarriliths and raks on their butt with greater command. Very useful spell for saving on healing.) and offensive casting. As such, the mana savings from this build wouldn't really apply to my play style, but if you tend to use healing spells a lot as opposed to wands/scrolls, this might be a good build for you.

Are your enhancements feasible with enhancement point prereqs? I don't have a halfling cleric up to look at that, but it seems to me based on my own build that you would have to take a few other enhancements due to prereqs... could be wrong though.

maddong
08-07-2007, 07:29 AM
I haven't gotten out of mid levels yet. I didn't assign all the AP just the ones I for sure wanted. So I think after you put those filler AP in you should be able to get the others.

Damn, that is too bad about maximize/empower (except empower healing) not affecting heal, but probably good for game balance. In that case it would be tempting to ditch empower and take extend at that point.

I'll fix the heal math.

Katrina
08-07-2007, 10:37 AM
Interesting, I've recently rolled my 'marked' cleric as well he's 5th now and I've noticed that I have alot more sp to throw around some CC.
The metamagics affect the mark's abilities??
Also noticing your skills, is there any reason you didn't take any heal skill points?

Mad_Bombardier
08-07-2007, 11:02 AM
Also noticing your skills, is there any reason you didn't take any heal skill points?Concentration and Balance are much more important to a Cleric. Heal skill is useful at low levels for free HP from shrines, but loses effectiveness past 100HP.

maddong
08-07-2007, 12:58 PM
Concentration and Balance are much more important to a Cleric. Heal skill is useful at low levels for free HP from shrines, but loses effectiveness past 100HP.

Yeah. Might be tempting to switch the jump points into listen or spot for the mod5 visibility change. I love being able to jump though....

Shyver
08-07-2007, 01:49 PM
Yeah. Might be tempting to switch the jump points into listen or spot for the mod5 visibility change. I love being able to jump though....

Just walk through spamming a sound burst wand every 10 ft. or so. :D Sure fire way of finding those hidden monsters.

rimble
08-07-2007, 03:36 PM
That's a really clever idea. I've only ever really tried to fit Dragonmarks onto classes with bonus Feats: Fighters, Rangers, Wizards...the Dragonmarks are just so expensive...but it really makes alot of sense here. This could also empower Clerics to use offensive spells a little more frequently by providing a non-spell-point means of healing. I didn't realize Feats/Items affected Dragonmarks...that sure changes the scene...

Turial
08-13-2007, 09:03 AM
Nice looking build. I had been wondering for a while if the enhancements/etc would affect the marks. The only thing I would say is that this may not be the intended way for things to work. It may change at a later date like all things. Until that time enjoy the massive healing power of the halflings.

maddong
08-13-2007, 09:13 AM
They said it was intentional.

rimble
08-13-2007, 09:54 AM
For what it's worth, I'm having a blast. Haven't had to use a healing wand yet at 5th level (have grouped with twinked clerics that that is ALL they use, never see their spell point bar move). Lots of healing: 360ish spell points, 4 free Cure Lights, 5 free Divine Healings (I like using those on the WF). Next level should be awesome: another free Cure Light and 5 free Cure Serious, and I'll be able to use my Superior Potency I item which should make the Cure Lights pretty hefty.

There has been a couple occasions when things went bad and I emptied my entire spell point bar, DH's, and Dragonmarks...good stuff.

Hold Person and Command give me plenty to do if healing isn't in high demand. Nimbus of Light allowed me to do significant damage to the Guardian of Shan-To-Kor after our single magic-missiler got one-shotted.

Definitely a fun support character, and an effective little boycott of the 'battle cleric'.

Impaqt
08-13-2007, 09:54 AM
Why would Maximize and Empower Spell Intentionally enhance a no Spell Point Cost Dragonamark feat?

I wouldn tnot expect that to remain that way if it does.

as for the 805 "Free" spell points.. they are far from free.... Your lose MT and IMT.. thats 155 right there... so its 660..... Now Consider you dont have Extend.... Your losing more Spell points every tiem you have to recast a timed spell...

Its a nice build.. a way to get Dragonmarks into a character without toally gimping it for sure... But the numbers seem exagerated to me.

rimble
08-13-2007, 10:32 AM
Why would Maximize and Empower Spell Intentionally enhance a no Spell Point Cost Dragonamark feat?

I wouldn tnot expect that to remain that way if it does.

as for the 805 "Free" spell points.. they are far from free.... Your lose MT and IMT.. thats 155 right there... so its 660..... Now Consider you dont have Extend.... Your losing more Spell points every tiem you have to recast a timed spell...

Its a nice build.. a way to get Dragonmarks into a character without toally gimping it for sure... But the numbers seem exagerated to me.

Well, the 'why' is because without Items/Feats affecting these things they are useless. I think I recall a dev saying it was intentional too, but I'm not sure how to find that thread...I'll try my Search-Fu...

I'm planning on Extend at 12, but we'll see. As I get higher in level the buffs will naturally start lasting a long time anyways. I don't know if Clerics have lots of those short buffs (Haste, Displacement, etc) that make Extend particularly attractive. I mean, that 38 minute Bless looks neat and all, but I don't think I've ever seen it time out.

I'm kind of hoping nothing TOO attractive is introduced Feat-wise at levels 15+ so I can fit in MT and IMT at 15 and 18, hehehe, it's deffinitely a shortcoming.

I'm also not sure how a Cure Light gets to do up to 124 points of healing...anyways, it's fun. :)


My Search-Fu is strong. Eladrin stating that Metamagic on Dragonmarks is intentional:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1270533&postcount=7

BGP
08-13-2007, 12:52 PM
Interesting idea here. Instead of a Cleric wiz, what about a Cleric Sorc? I am looking at rolling up a cleric.

Any idea?

BP

rimble
08-13-2007, 02:35 PM
Interesting idea here. Instead of a Cleric wiz, what about a Cleric Sorc? I am looking at rolling up a cleric.

Any idea?

BP

Well, the Wizard level was for the free Metamagic feat. Don't think I'm planning on doing that right now, but we'll see.

rimble
08-14-2007, 10:25 PM
Just thought I'd give an update with meat to it since I usually post when I'm away from the game.

At level 6 now I have 430 spell points (22 Wisdom, Energy of the Zealot II, Power III).

Cure Light, which costs 14 sp with Empower Healing averages about 26hp with my Superior Potency I item. It's my regular healing spell.

Cure Moderate costs 21 sp. Averages about 32.

Cure Serious costs 28 sp. Averages about 42.

Those averages aren't very scientific. I just now cast each of the spells a bunch and eyeballed it.

Via Dragonmarks I have 6 more Cure Lights, and 4 more Cure Seriouses. At the current cost of my spells (using Cleric Improved Empower Healing I) that is (6 x 14) + (4 x 28) = effectively 196 more spell points. I think that's pretty neat. I only just now used wands significantly for the first time in a group of five level 6/7's, we did all of Grey Moon and CO6...and still that was only maybe 20 cure moderate charges at most near the end of CO6 as we got tore up by traps without a Rogue.

MT and IMT would have given me a total of 70sp so far I think, so I'm pretty much ahead of that (though it's cost me an additional 3 Action Points), just make sure to use the Dragonmark heals first.

The Metamagic changes in Mod 5 are going to screw with the 'effective extra spell points' too.

More later if my patience can withstand being a Cleric.


Removed some OP doubting since I keep forgetting about Empower and Maximize since I'm not sure if I'm going to take those. With all those Metamagic feats on the cure numbers get pretty insane.

maddong
08-14-2007, 10:37 PM
I'm also not sure how a Cure Light gets to do up to 124 points of healing...anyways, it's fun. :)
You have to have empower healing, empower, and maximize.

rimble
08-14-2007, 10:45 PM
You have to have empower healing, empower, and maximize.

Right-O, I keep forgetting that. Not sure yet if I want to take those others, but regardless, as long as you use those Dragonmark cures/heals every time, you're way ahead of MT and IMT.

LawfulGood
08-26-2007, 10:50 AM
Thanks for posting this build. Does anyone know if the Dragonmarked healing abilities are blocked by the Beholder anti-magic field? This could be another advantage for this build, if they are not. Another thing to look forward to is to see if the Dragonmark abilities are blocked by the new creatures in Mod 5 that prevent normal cleric healing spells from being cast.

Sadus
08-28-2007, 03:25 AM
Thanks for posting this build. Does anyone know if the Dragonmarked healing abilities are blocked by the Beholder anti-magic field? This could be another advantage for this build, if they are not. Another thing to look forward to is to see if the Dragonmark abilities are blocked by the new creatures in Mod 5 that prevent normal cleric healing spells from being cast.

I would also very much like to know if Dragon Marks function under Beholder Anti-Magic

moops
08-28-2007, 11:35 AM
Interesting build.
Regarding Mental Toughness and Imp Mental Toughness, both my level 14 human clerics no longer carry them, and have spell focuses instead. Maybe with Mod 5 that will change though. I also got rid of Extend once I hit level 14.

LawfulGood
09-01-2007, 06:23 PM
Looks like the healing from Dragonmarks does function within an anti-magic field. :)

WilbyZ
09-03-2007, 06:49 AM
Looks like the healing from Dragonmarks does function within an anti-magic field. :)

Woot ... Halfling Clerics rocks! :)

LawfulGood
09-04-2007, 11:01 AM
More research on healing through Dragonmarks... they do not function under Madstone rage.

maddong
09-05-2007, 01:12 PM
I must say this is even better on a paladin:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=120314

Gratch
09-07-2007, 12:05 PM
I was thinking of trying it with a halfling bard. Give up mental toughness and some enchantment focus for dragonmarks of healing. Now would maximize help with any other bard spells or would empower healing be better?

Ah... there's already a thread. :)

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=118880

richieelias27
09-10-2007, 01:22 AM
Another bonus to the halfling healing mark: You can fire off those mark heals with extreme rapidity. Like a little healing machine-gun.

LawfulGood
10-02-2007, 10:41 AM
For anyone wondering, yes -- Dragonmarked healing works while you are under the Intercession effect of the Quells.

Mad_Bombardier
10-02-2007, 11:28 AM
For anyone wondering, yes -- Dragonmarked healing works while you are under the Intercession effect of the Quells.Woot! And well it should. Dragonmarks are not divinely inspired, but rather innate magical abilities.

maddong
10-02-2007, 03:55 PM
Sweetness.

Spectralist
10-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Another bonus to the halfling healing mark: You can fire off those mark heals with extreme rapidity. Like a little healing machine-gun.

Only the first one, the cooldowns are 1 second least, 3 seconds lesser, 6 greater. Problem is they share a cooldown, if you hit the healing one you can't hit either of the others for 6 seconds. Doesn't sound like much but i've had a couple cases where someone died because of that cooldown.

Lorichie
10-04-2007, 03:53 PM
Fwiw,
i just hit level 14 with this build last night, first cleric so im a master by no means. i have empowered healing and maximise and i find that i rarely use max except mebbe on blade barrier. I went through the pains of forgetting to turn off max and used it on a mass or even cure mod for a super cure. sp pool is little low, only 1120 with 30 wiz and magi item, however having five heals for free that do 378, and crit for over 600 is equal to 225 sp with emp healing on.

As long as i use my marks between each shrine, i rarely ever run out of sp, unless i get carried away with burst healing and overheal too much.

Again, my first cleric, and although im still learning the class ive rolled a dwarven cleric, just to see what difference would be like if i didnt have them, not knowing the difference.

(you can also rapid fire heals, use your dmark first then use regular heal, then of course scroll if wanted. by time scroll is done dmark is cleared and can repeat.)

rich

Dark-Star
10-11-2007, 02:05 AM
For the purpose of a potency/devo item with regard to the greater dragon mark (the heal), is it treated as a level 6 spell, and therefore you need a pot/devo 6 item to boost it?

Spectralist
10-11-2007, 10:58 AM
For the purpose of a potency/devo item with regard to the greater dragon mark (the heal), is it treated as a level 6 spell, and therefore you need a pot/devo 6 item to boost it?

I think so, i have them on my ranger and don't have a devo6 item on him. But his devotion4 item boosts lesser and least dragonmarks but not the greater, so i assume it needs a devotion6.

Xirxx
10-15-2007, 03:19 PM
I want to roll one of these tonight but I want to clarify something:

Will Empower work on Dragonmarks or do I need to get Empower Healing?

Mad_Bombardier
10-15-2007, 03:21 PM
I want to roll one of these tonight but I want to clarify something:

Will Empower work on Dragonmarks or do I need to get Empower Healing?Empower and Maximize work on all Cure xxx Wounds spells in addition to Empower Healing (but does not work on Heal).

Xirxx
10-15-2007, 03:29 PM
Empower and Maximize work on all Cure xxx Wounds spells in addition to Empower Healing (but does not work on Heal).

Great, thanks.

Dworkin_of_Amber
10-25-2007, 11:18 AM
I have just rolled up a variation on the Halfling Medic, going pure 14 Cleric. I like the extra Metamagic Feat for the 1 Wizard splash, but I can't justify the loss in spell slots to not go pure Cleric. I have also changed up the stats/skills a little bit to my personal preferences.

STR: 9 + 5 (Item) = 14 (+2)
DEX: 10 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Halfing Dex 1) = 12 (+1)
CON: 12 + 6 (Item) = 18 (+4)
INT: 10
WIS: 17 + 3 (Levels) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 2 (Cleric's Wis 2) + 6 (Item) = 30 (+10)
CHA: 16 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Cleric's Cha 1) + 6 (Item) = 24 (+7)


Feats:
-------------------
1) Least Dragonmark of Healing
3) Empower Spell
6) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
9) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
12) Maximize Spell
-------------------


Skills:
-------------------
Jump
Concentration
-------------------
NOTE: I know this is a bit different from most Cleric Builds which would go Heal and Concentration, but I personally don't find Heal skill that important at the higher levels, so I am going for Jump, which is usually a Cleric's biggest weakness


Enhancements:
-------------------
Extra Dragonmark IV
Halfling Dexterity I
Cleric Prayer of Life III
Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Cleric Life Magic IV
Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Cleric Charisma I
Cleric Wisdom II
Cleric Divine Vitality III
Cleric Extra Turning I
-------------------


Final Look:
Equipped with Magi Item, Wis +6, Cha +6, Con +6 Items:

HP: 188 (20 Heroic Durability + 112 Base + 56 Con)
SP: 1120 (680 Base + 230 Wis + 110 EotZ + 100 Magi)
Dragonmark Abilities:
9 Maximized & Empowered Cure Light Wounds/rest
7 Maximized & Empowered Cure Critical Wounds/rest
5 Empowered Heals/rest

Required Items:
Wis, Cha, Con, Pearl/Magi.
Wis on Helm/Neck, Cha on Helm/Cloak, Con on Neck/Belt, Magi on Trinket
Leaving Gloves, Boots, Bracers, Goggles, & Rings Free!

Cambo
01-06-2008, 10:43 PM
I assume nothing has changes since these posts to make this build less effective ?
Is there a preffered cleric build going around...I'd like to make a cleric
I like halflings...and would like to use mana for nice stuff like insta kills ;) (Move over sorcerers)

Dworkin_of_Amber
01-07-2008, 09:11 AM
I have a few friends that are currently leveling, or just finished capping this build, or minor variations of it. They have all reported liking this build, and no recent changes have done anything to invalidate this build.

The only real "complaint" is that sometimes they forget to turn off Maximize/Empower after using Dragonmark Healing and going back to SP-Healing, costing them more SP... but I think that is minor.

Vengenance
07-25-2008, 05:16 PM
Wow, interesting build, might be something I want to roll up in the future. If I only had an extra character slot, maybe it's time to permanently retire my Pally.