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Daemonis
07-31-2007, 09:55 AM
***Finalized build details in light of experimentation and experience with the build during advancement up to level 14***

The Warforgedchanter, A True Neutral, 32ptWF, 14Bard

S 30 (18base+3Levels+2Favor Tome+5Item+2Extended rage spell)
D 12 (8base+4Item)
C 26 (16base+2WF Enhancement+1Tome+5Item+2Extended rage spell)
I 8 (8base)
W 8 (6base+2Nightforge helm)
CH 22 (14base+2Bard Enhancement+1Tome+5Item)

Warforged Racial Abilities: Immunities (sleep, nausea, exhaustion, poison, disease, paralysis effects, energy drain, or spells that target humanoids, DQ wrack), extended time underwater before drowning, composite plating (+2AC, light fortification), automatic stabilization if incapacitated, healed by Arcane (full effect) or Divine/Bard spells (at –35%).

Class Granted Feats: Simple (all) and martial (longsword, shortsword, rapier, shortbow) weapon proficiencies, Shield (all except Tower) proficiencies, Bard music, Fascinate, Inspire confidence, Inspire competence, Suggestion song, Improved inspire courage, Inspire Greatness, Song of Freedom, and Bard spells.

Level Feats:
(1) Great axe (--->Swap out for greatsword ONLY if Sword of Shadows is obtained)
(3) Power attack
(6) WF: Slashing
(9) Extend
(12) IC: Slashing (to increase DPS when using Greater Bane greataxes)

Enhancements:
Inspired bravery II
Inspired attack III
Inspired damage III
Warchanter
CHA II
Extra song IV
Music of the Dead
Music of the Makers
Energy II
WF Healers friend I
WF CON II

Spell Points: 657 (375base+132CHA+40Energy II+100Magi item)

Bard spells:
1) CLW (swap out for Grease once CMW taken), expeditious retreat, focusing chant, remove fear.
2) Glitterdust, rage, blur, heroism (swap out for CMW once GH is taken).
3) Haste, displacement, CSW, good hope.
4) Freedom of movement, dimension door, Otto’s sphere, CCW.
5) GH, mass suggestion, mind fog.

Skills:
Perform 32 (17base+6CHA+4Greater Heroism (GH)]
UMD 31 [(17base+6CHA+3Goldencartouche+4GH+1Focusing chant for burst UMD]
Concentration 29 (17base+8CON+4GH)
Balance 22 (17base+1DEX+4GH)
Jump 31 (17base+10STR+4GH)

Base hit Points: 226 (i.e., 20Heroic+84Bard+112Constitution+10Draconic)

[Self-buffed max hitpoints: 298; i.e., 20Heroic+84Bard+112Constitution+10Draconic+20Inspi re greatness+14GH+14Extended rage+13UMDd Falselife wand+11Aid potion]

Saves:
Fortitude 19 (+4Bard+7CON+1Bard song+3C06 resistance trinket+4Extended GH)
Reflex 18 (+9Bard+1DEX+4Trapblast goggles+4Extended GH)
Will 17 (+9Bard-1WIS+5Nightforge helm+4Extended GH)

Base Attack Bonus: 10/10/15/20
+10 STR
+1 Weapon focus: slashing
+2 Carnifex (+2 greataxe, 17-20 critical range, x3 damage; Delerah’s end reward)
+2 Improved inspired courage
+2 Inspire greatness
+3 Inspired Attack III
+1 Warchanter
+1 Focusing chant
________________________
+32/+32/+37/+42 –or- +27/+27/+32/+37 with power attack when using Carnifex

[If you UMD a divine power scroll, your attack can improve to:
+36/+36/+41/+46 –or- +31/+31/+36/+41 with power attack when using Carnifex!]

Base Damage with Carnifex (primary weapon):
+2 Carnifex
+15 STR
+2 Improved inspired courage
+3 Inspired damage III
+2 Warchanter
________________________
1d12+24; i.e., 25-36 damage on normal hit, 75-108 damage on critical hit.
(With power attack on, damage: 1d12+34; i.e., 35-46 damage on normal hit, 105-138 damage on critical hit)

Armor Class: <20+ extended blur/displacement/haste spells+ Warchanter song or Stoneskin (UMD’s scrolls).

Build Pros:
1) Survivability
-WF racial abilities are incredible! Moreover, heavy fortification status is easily obtained by equipping a commonly available moderate fortification item.
-Self- and party buffing with spells such as remove fear, good hope, greater heroism, rage, displacement, freedom of movement, and haste.
-Self- and party-buffing with potent bardic music. At the end game, this builds standard extended rage+bardic music combo buff grants the equivalent to an area of effect rage that grants: +9 to hit, +8damage, +34 hit points, +1 fortitude saves, +2 saves vs. charm or fear effects, and DR5/-, at a cost of just –2AC. That’s equivalent to gaining +16strength and several toughness feats!
-Self-healing with spells, standard cure wands (at reduced benefit), and UMD’d repair light/moderate/Series wands.
-Can be healed by multiple party members (bard, cleric, paladin, ranger, sorcerer, wizard) if incapacitated.
-True neutral alignment helps reduce damage taken from high-end content mobs that employ unholy weapons/arrows. True neutral alignment also affords a slight boost in AC if Stability docent and shields are equipped. UMD is adequate to equip most equipment in the game, including “of pure good” items.
-Can hot-swap docents quickly to tailor protection depending on mob. Typical docents include fearsome, deathblock, arrowblock, acidguard, and the various elemental resistances.

2) Solo Character or Party Catalyst
The Warforgedchanter is an excellent solo character owing to its effective crowd control (no fail facinate or Otto’s sphere+mind fog/glitter dust/grease), self-healing, with good DPS (comparable to other non-specialized DPS characters). If you get in trouble, back up and simply kite+fascinate mobs (for no fail CC that affects everything except oozes and named bosses). Heal up and then destroy each foe one at a time. Within a party context, you should be able to make a good showing in the kill counts if that matters to you - yet also offer post-battle party healing and selected buffs.

3) Pure Bard
I had originally considering splashing one level of fighter (taken at level 2) to bolster the builds melee aptitude by affording the free martial weapon proficiency, a free feet, and very modest improvement in HP among other things (as others have cogently noted). I would concede that this would optimize this build slightly more for melee --- at least at the current level cap. However, I opted to FORGO splashing the level of fighter in order to maximize benefit from Bardic music, spells, and pending level cap increase. Specifically, by staying pure Bard, you can:

a) Maxing out the number of Bard song/rest available, which affords possibility of an extra buff or fascinate when things get hairy. Fascinate/Music of the Dead/Music of the Makers is crazy powerful – if you group up with a patient party. This skill, along with self-healing and good DPS when ThF, makes this build great at soloing!

b) You can max out the Inspired Attack enhancement line which offers the +1 to hit to both yourself & your party, whereas taking the level of fighter would only add +1attack to yourself.

c) Slight boost in SP that would allow you to cast an extra haste or displacement, or other cure spell on an incapacitated teammate.

d) Can select an Extra 5th level spell, such as mind fog (to bolster over time effectiveness of Otto’s sphere given the builds relatively low CHA ---> great combo BTW in Gianthold).

e) Perhaps the most compelling reason IMHO to stay pure Bard is that, following the spell progression table on DDOWIKI, you will obtain BOTH of your 6th level spells at level 16. I can’t wait to see what those may be!

As an aside, I would add that I’m able to make a decent showing in the kill count department with my small collection of weapons (as detailed above - which were fairly easy to come by) – so the loss of potentially using a situational weapon that I’m not proficient hasn’t been a concern to date. In fact, it has been nice having just ONE tool bar of weapons. Keep it simple. Between the spell casting/buffs/and DPSing melee, you have much to be vigilant about.


4) Equipment and Inventory Space
This build can effectively equip more stat enhancing items onto the character at any given time than other builds, as WF immunities negate the necessity of needing to carry selected protection equipment (e.g., disease, poison, underwater action, etc.). More space is always a good thing.

Build Cons:
1) To really shine, as with other battleclerics/battlemages, this build is reliant upon self-buffs to increase its prowess in battle – which can evaporate quickly owing to dispels or antimagic rays. Fortunately, this character’s core buffs are centered around bardic music (inspire courage+greatness) which is non-dispellable - so this is less of an issue.

2) This build will utilize much of its spell points on self-buffs and heals, which may detract from your capacity to play the stereotypical crowd control specialist or healer role. You should state that you are a battlebard with good DPS that can fill the off-tanking spot in the team. You also will help with healing after battles and offer selected buffs. If the party is patient, you CAN do no-fail CC via fasinate. Alternately, you can set up a doorway with Otto’s sphere+mind fog and/or glitterdust/grease.

I typically only perform the following buffs on my teammates at the start of a dungeon: Bardic songs (inspire courage & greatness), extended remove fear, extended good hope, and extended rage. I may cast extended blur on our main tank if we have one. That’s it. I reserve the rest of my spell points on my self-buffs. I then explain that I frequently self-cast haste. If others want it, then they should stick close to me. The reason I do this is it helps to slow down would-be zergers and helps me to control the pace of combat.

3) Reduced benefit from non-repair spell- and wand-based healing (-35% benefit).

4) Low AC for melee build. AC is comparable to a robe wearing barbarian. Damage will be reduced by perma-blur/displacement, Warchanter song or UMD’d stoneskin scrolls, heavy fortification status (equip a mod fort item), selected docents (e.g. fearsome of axe/hammer/spear block docents or for extra DPS = equip a Acidguard docent), adequate self-healing, and smart play. Play this character much as you would any other low AC DPS THF character.

5) Social stigma of being a Warforged bard. Be prepared to brush off the “jukebox” comments!

=============================================
Here are some thoughts regarding basic/common equipment to obtain early in your career to help your Warforgedchanter thrive:

At low levels (i.e., <5), work hard to obtain:
1) Several Rings of Rage (as rage spell) – for an extra boost to STR and CON. I had a tool bar full of them and was near perma-raged. Once you hit level 4, you won’t need these anymore as you can cast the spell.
2) Ring of light fortification (brings your WF up to Moderate fortification status!).
2) +1Elemental greataxe (especially fire, equipable at level2 to serve as your primary lowbie weapon until you earn your Carnifex)
3) +1Holy quarter staff (equipable at level4).
4) +1Ghostetouch greataxe or quarterstaff (equipable at level 2 or 4).
5) +1Shockingburst shortbow (equipable at level4)
6) +1Acidguard docent
7) +1Charisma trinket (I forget the name, easy to obtain on the AH)

I wouldn’t attempt Delerahs until you are level 4 and you have your undead gear in place (i.e., holy quarterstaff, ghostetouch, and acidguard docent).

Once you hit level 4, keep running Delerahs until you obtain your Carnifex and the Linen wraps (+4STR).

At mid levels (5-8)
Work hard to obtain:
1) +1Fearsome docent
2) +1Deathblock docent
3) Moderate fortification docent or item.
4) +3Con Belt from Tangleroot.
5) 3 Visors of the flesh renders (Tangleroot end reward -->6min of deathward/visor that you own).

You may want to upgrade your holy quarterstaff (e.g., to a Holy of righteousness). I also would obtain a flamingburst or acid quarterstaff for rust monsters too. That’s about it.

You CAN start equipping basic Greaterbane greataxes or quarterstaffs as soon as level 8, if you want to improve your DPS over and above Carnifex, but that’s only if you have the backpack space for these situational weapons and want to be very competitive for kill counts.

miceelf88
07-31-2007, 10:10 AM
for reposting this. Looks good!

Flicken
07-31-2007, 11:35 AM
Just curious on what your thoughts are on taking Khopesh instead of the 2 handers.

Daemonis
07-31-2007, 02:04 PM
Hello, Flicken,

To address your question, let’s see:

So assuming Base Attack Bonus: 10/10/15/20

+10 STR
+1 Weapon focus: slashing
+5 Khopesh (19-20 critical range, 1d8 damage x3 damage)
+2 Improved inspired courage
+2 Inspire greatness
+3 Inspired Attack III
+1 Warchanter
+1 Focusing chant
________________________
+35/+35/+40/+45 –or- +30/+30/+35/+40 with power attack

[If you UMD a divine power scroll, your attack can improve to:
+39/+39/+44/+49 –or- +31/+31/+39/+44 with power attack]

Base Damage with +5 Khopesh (min level 8 to equip):
+5 Khopesh
+10 STR
+2 Improved inspired courage
+3 Inspired damage III
+2 Warchanter
________________________
1d8+22; i.e., 23-30 damage on normal hit, 69-90 damage on critical hit.
(With power attack on, damage: 1d12+27; i.e., 28-39 damage on normal hit, 84-117 damage on critical hit)

Base Damage with +5 Holy Khopesh of Pure Good (min level 12 to equip):
+5 Khopesh
+10 STR
+3 Improved inspired courage
+3 Inspired damage III
+2 Warchanter
________________________
1d8+22; i.e., 23-30 damage on normal hit, 69-90 damage on critical hit.

vs. evil opponents:
1d8+22+2d6+1d6; i.e., 26-48 damage on normal hit, 72-108 damage on critical hit.

(With power attack on, damage: 1d12+27; i.e., 28-39 damage on normal hit, 84-117 damage on critical hit)
(vs. evil opponents with power attack on: 1d8+27+2d6+1d6; i.e., 31-53 damage on normal hit,
102-126 damage on critical hit.

=============================================

To hit analysis: Either +5Khopesh is only modestly better to hit than the Carnifex (i.e., +3 difference).

Average damage over 20 hits, assuming all hit:

Carnifex
16 hits at normal attack (not including glancing blows) = 560-736 untyped damage
4 critical hits = 420-552 untyped damage
Total damage range = 980-1288

+5Khopesh (after taking IC:Slashing at lvl12)
16 normal hits = 442-624 untyped damage
4 critical hits = 336-4468
Total damage range = 778-1092

+5Holy Khopesh of PG vs. evil opponent (after taking IC:Slashing at lvl12)
16 hits at = 496-828
4 critical hits = 408-504
Total damage vs. evil opponents = 904-1332

=============================================

My thoughts:

At the end game, the +5Holy khopesh of PG (need to be level 12 to equip) will out perform Carnifex, but only if the IC: Slashing feat is taken (again at level 12) and if you are facing evil opponents - although only marginally so as glancing blows damage was not factored in. I would imagine a similar scenario for greater bane (of X) khopeshes as well.

Interestingly, Carnifex can be equiped much earlier during your career (as low as level 4 if you run Delerahs over and over till you obtain one, like I did), it does untyped damage (thus negating the need to have a golfbag of situational weapons), and it continues to perform very well even at the end game compared to one of the better highly coveted end game single hand weapons available. Ultimately, the build would benefit most from acquiring the Sword of Shadows (Dragon raid loot).

I would wager that you are considering equipping a shield and khopesh. Frankly the extra AC will not be all that helpful. With appropriate buffs (perma-blur, extended displacement, Warchanter song or UMDd stoneskin scrolls) and equipment (fearsome; mod fort), I have found that low AC on my Warforgedchanter Trouvere isn’t a big deal.

So I guess it comes down to how many weapons you want to carry and whether or not you want to equip a shield.

Personally, I opted to carry a big axe and go for simplicity. IIRC, I carrying about 8 weapons, e.g., Carnifex (primary weapon on all critable opponents), +5Adamantium greataxe (Golems/WF), +1Wounding greataxe (self-healing foes), +1Holy of PG greataxe (corporal undead), +1Ghost touch greataxe, +1Holy quarterstaff of PG (Skeletons), +1Acid quarterstaff of PG (Rust monsters), +1Shocking burst shortbow (with +3 House D arrows), and my bare fists (for slimes; I do impressive damage!). That’s it. The rest of my backpack slots are reserved for wands, potions, scrolls, gear, and of course…much loot!

Regards, -Daemonis.

Flicken
07-31-2007, 02:24 PM
Wow, thank you for such a detailed response! Much appreciated. :)

Dark-Star
07-31-2007, 10:19 PM
Have you considered dropping one level of bard for one level of fighter?

This would give you two extra feats (two becuase you would not need to take a martial weapon feat, and one from fighter bonus).

You lose 1 level 5 spell, 25 spell points, 1 reflex and 1 will save, but no enhancements that I could see.

You gain 4 HPs, 2 fort save. You also gain access to: Crit Accuray 1, Item Defense 1, Ftr Toughness 1 (5 more HPs).

The two extra feats could go to giving you ICrit: Slashing, 3 more UMD, another Toughness Feat (20 more HPs), 75 more Spell Points via Mental Toughness, or any one of a number of others to suit your play style, including Khopesh.

Having the inate Martial Weapon feat won't pigeon hole you to either a Great Axe or an SoS, but leave you wide open to chose the best available to you for the situation or your budget/luck.

You analytical skills seem razor sharp, so I am sure you have considered this. It would be interesting if you could walk us through your logic, maybe I overlooked something (future levels, etc.).

Daemonis
08-01-2007, 06:38 PM
Hi Dark-Star,
Thanks for checking out the build that I have enjoyed immensely so far. I ended up deleting my barbarian in favor of this guy - he’s really that much fun!

I had originally considering splash one level of fighter (taken at level 2) to bolster the builds melee aptitude by affording the free martial weapon proficiency, a free feet, and very modest improvement in HP among other things (as you cogently noted). I would concede that this would optimize the build slightly more for melee, at least at the current level cap.

However, I opted to FORGO splashing the level of fighter in order to maximize benefit from Bardic music, spells, and pending level cap increase.

Specifically, by staying pure Bard, you can:
1) Maxing out the number of Bard song/rest available, which affords possibility of an extra buff or fascinate when things get hairy. Fascinate is crazy powerful – if you group up with a patient party. This skill, along with self-healing and good DPS when ThF, makes this build great at soloing!

2) You can max out the Inspired Attack enhancement line which offers the +1 to hit to both yourself & your party, whereas taking the level of fighter would only add +1attack to yourself.

3) Slight boost in SP that would allow you to cast an extra haste or displacement, or other cure spell on an incapacitated teammate.

4) Can select an Extra 5th level spell, such as mind fog (to bolster over time effectiveness of Otto’s sphere given the builds relatively low CHA ---> great combo BTW in Gianthold) or shadow-walk (for setting up fascinate).

5) Perhaps the most compelling reason IMHO to stay pure Bard is that, following the spell progression table on DDOWIKI, you will obtain BOTH of your 6th level spells at level 16. I can’t wait to see what those may be!

As an aside, I would add that I’m able to make a decent showing in the kill count department with my small collection of weapons (as detailed above - which were fairly easy to come by) – so the loss of potentially using a situational weapon that I’m not proficient hasn’t been a concern to date. In fact, it has been nice having just ONE tool bar of weapons. Keep it simple. Between the spell casting/buffs/and DPSing melee, you have much to be vigilant about.

Regards, -Daemonis

spifflove
08-05-2007, 01:23 AM
Arent you squishy? I mean my bard can get one shoted in end content.

Daemonis
08-05-2007, 06:52 PM
Hi Spifflove,

I wouldn’t consider this a squishy build at all, for the following reasons:
1) With self-buffs, this build has 287HP.
2) The build has enough spell points to enable permablur/displacement.
3) The build has enough UMD to use Stoneskin scrolls. I’m always stoneskinned, for DR10.
4) Heavy fortification status is achieved as early as level 7 after equipping a moderate fortification item (granting heavy fort for WF).
5) I also wear a fearsome docents – for any blows that do land.

[Not to mention all the innate WF immunities…]

I've just started questing in Gianthold and without self-aggrandizing too much, the Warforgedchanter performs very well. You'll have to give it a shot.

Regards, -Daemonis

spifflove
08-06-2007, 01:01 AM
Well someone on Argonnessen who was playing a Maldini barbarian said you smoked him so I am interested. Not really any space except in my permadeath guild though. I think I shall call him Juxbox.

Daemonis
08-10-2007, 09:56 AM
An update on primary weapon recommendations for the build:

I had previously advocated using Carnifex as your primary general purpose weapon (equipable at level4; Delerah’s end reward) until you can obtain some nice greater bane greataxes or SoS (the latter of which will be harder to obtain now, once the Raid Loot mechanism is changed next mod).

Now that my bard, Trouvere, has leveled up and has obtained the IC:Slashing feat, I wanted to re-examine which would be the best non-raid two-handed DPS weapon for him. As a WF, you get a free feat respec compliments of the Dragonmarked quest in the harbor. So, I respec'd my greataxe weapon proficiency for falchions to see in game how they would perform for this build vis-a-vis greataxes. Specifically, I have been trying out some Alignment/Holybursting of PG Falchions and they do seem to do a bang up job. However, I'm not convinced that they are any better then what I was working with. So, I set to pen and paper today to figure out a realistic appraisal of the top end falchions performance vs. Carnifex and other greaterbane greataxes.

First, the contenders:
1) Carnifex (equipable at lvl4)= +2 greataxe, crit range = 17-20 (20% to crit), x3 damage on crit.
2) +1Greater bane greataxe (situational; equipable at lvl8) = +6 vs. bane target, crit range = 19-20 for x3 damage.
3) +1Alignment/Holyburst falchion of PG (equipable at lvl10) = +1 falchion, +2d6 damage vs. evil/alignment, +1d6 damage vs. non good opponents, crit range = 15-20 for x2 base damage.

Situation:
1) Damage calculations will be estimated over 10 successful attacks on an elite level foe – which is a realistic appraisal of how the weapon will perform as most non-boss foes don’t have 1000’s of hit points. Moreover, within a team context, you typically have several melee's engaging the same foe – and you will be lucky to land more than a few hits before they go down.
================================================== ==========
Weapon Statistics:

Carnifex

Base damage (1d12) = 6
+2 enchantment bonus
+15 STR
+10 PA
+7 Bardic music

40 average damage/hit; 120 average damage on a critical hit (20% chance).
---------------------------------------------

+1GreaterBaneGreataxe

Base damage (1d12) = 6
+6 enchantment bonus
+15 STR
+10 PA
+7 Bardic music
+9 Greaterbane

53 average damage/hit (situational); 159 average damage on a critical hit (10% chance)
---------------------------------------------

+1Alignment/HolyburstFalchionofPG

Base damage (2d4) = 4
+1 enchantment bonus
+15 STR
+10 PA
+7 Bardic music
+6 Alignment/Holy effect (not multiplied when crit is obtained)
+3 Pure Good effect (not multiplied when crit is obtained)
[+9 burst effect on critical hit]

46 average damage/hit (situational); 92 average damage on a critical hit (30% chance)

================================================== ==========
Weapon performance over a series of 10 successful attacks:

Carnifex (20% crit) vs. critable opponnent:

40 average damage*8hits = 320
120 average damage*2 critical hits = 240

Total = 560 average damage (or 400 damage vs. heavy fortified or noncritable opponent)


+1GBaneGreataxe (10% crit) vs. critable opponnent:

53 average damage*9hits = 320
159 average damage*1 critical hit = 159

Total = 636 average damage (or 530 damage vs. heavy fortified or noncritable opponent)


+1Alignment/Holyburst Falchion of PG (30% crit) vs. critable opponnent:

46 average damage*7 hits = 322
92 average damage*3 critical hits = 276

Total = 598 average damage (or 460 damage vs. heavy fortified or noncritable opponent)
================================================
Conclusion:

Carnifex basically performs as well as a +1Alignment/HolyburstofPG Falchion and it will serve you well as a general purpose weapon from low to mid levels even against non-critable foes. Carnifex’s DPS is overshadowed by a basic +1GreaterBaneGreataxe (and more so if other effects are added, such as elemental or holy effects). So, if you have the backpack space and want to compete for kill counts, then you should begin amassing various greaterbane greataxes as soon as level 8.

Fortunately, I have a Siberys Dragonshard in the bank. I will be re-spec'ing back to Greataxes as soon as the timer allows me too.

Cheers! -Daemonis

EinarMal
08-10-2007, 10:09 AM
Cool build although I personally could not resist the fighter level on my two handed battle bard :) I am still trying for carniflex as well 0-4 :( The one comment I would add is to look at the effect of the bloodstone trinket on your numbers (seeker +6) which is multiplied by the critical mulitplier. That would be an extra 18 damage on a great axe critical. That would help carniflex out a little bit. I know they are not easy to get but really are a good boost to DPS.

One other small thing 1d12 is 6.5 average not 6 but that is minor...

I agree when the cap is 16 it will stink for awhile to wait for level 6 spells so I understand not wanting to wait. I personally just cannot stand being limited to 1 weapon type and having to burn a feat on a weapon. To me getting power attack plus all martial weapons is too good to pass up. It really helps if you are not a dwarf where using a great axe makes so much sense. Do you use quarterstaffs on skele type mobs? It is nice to be able to use a maul as well.

Daemonis
08-10-2007, 11:57 AM
Hi EinarMal,

I was fortunate and obtained my Carnifex at level 4 on my second Delerahs run! (Linen wraps were my first end reward!). Good point about the Bloodstone. The Bloodstone also is one of the most highly coveted pieces of equipment for any DPS build and is a very rare find. I would wager most folks won’t obtain one – even the famed Maladini from the Barbarian forums still reportedly doesn’t have one!

It’s a sacrifice, I suppose, between splashing 1 level of Fighter and obtaining martial weapon feats (among other things) vs. staying pure Bard. I had outlined my logic in a previous posting why I would personally would recommend staying pure. Basically, I don’t believe that I’m missing out on much by forgoing the fighter splash – as I wanted max Bard skills/songs/spells, decent overall DPS, and the opportunity to have level 6 spells when the level cap increases this Fall. After all, it’s not like I’m truly limited to just ONE weapon type. As you know, Bards can inherently use all simple weapons, short-bows, short- & long-swords, and rapiers. Think about all the time you will save on the AH by having a more focused weapon search! LOL.

BTW, I recently re-spec’d out greataxes to try some Alignment/Holyburst of PG Falchions that I picked up (I have the IC:S feat) – and my in-game experience is that my simple Carnifex performed nearly just as well. This assertion also holds up when the numbers are calculated on paper over 10 successful attacks. Greaterbane greataxes really shine! I will be going back to greataxes once my feat-respect timer is up, LOL.

IIRC, my 12th level bard Trouvere carries a +3Holyburst of PG quarterstaff (RR, UMD DC to equip = 20) that absolutely crushes undead - and skellies in particular. A maul version would yield you basically just +4 extra damage over my quarterstaff. A wash IMHO.

Thanks for taking the time to check out the build and offer a critique.

Cheers, -Daemonis

EinarMal
08-10-2007, 12:11 PM
BTW, I recently re-spec’d out greataxes to try some Alignment/Holyburst of PG Falchions that I picked up (I have the IC:S feat) – and my in-game experience is that my simple Carnifex performed nearly just as well. This assertion also holds up when the numbers are calculated on paper over 10 successful attacks. Greaterbane greataxes really shine! I will be going back to greataxes once my feat-respect timer is up, LOL.

IIRC, my 12th level bard Trouvere carries a +3Holyburst of PG quarterstaff (RR, UMD DC to equip = 20) that absolutely crushes undead - and skellies in particular. A maul version would yield you basically just +4 extra damage over my quarterstaff. A wash IMHO.

Thanks for taking the time to check out the build and offer a critique.

Cheers, -Daemonis

The only thing I would caution about just looking at the numbers is that not all weapons swing with the same speed and reach so you have to be a little careful. For example a great axe swings about 3-4% faster than a falchion so that is a "hidden" boost. If you time them over a minute you get more swings with a great axe or a maul than you do with a falchion. They also seem to have greater reach so hit things more often when you swing. Those kinds of things are harder to quantify but you should switch back to the great axe over a falchion.

Ghoste
08-10-2007, 12:22 PM
I ran 2 man through Delera's with the OP on this build. Mind you it's not end game content by any means, but I was very impressed with the melee ability of this char. Add the fact that he can use scrolls of tensors or divine power to boost his bab to equal a fighter's, the spells, the songs...a very versatile build. I'll group with him anytime.

EinarMal
08-10-2007, 12:25 PM
I ran 2 man through Delera's with the OP on this build. Mind you it's not end game content by any means, but I was very impressed with the melee ability of this char. Add the fact that he can use scrolls of tensors or divine power to boost his bab to equal a fighter's, the spells, the songs...a very versatile build. I'll group with him anytime.

Absolutely battle bards are great characters no doubt about that and the OP definitely has a solid build.

Ghoste
08-10-2007, 11:11 PM
I have a question about this build. I am interested in making one, but one that would run a lot with my all wf caster guild. If I were to swap out the healer's friend enhancements at higher lvl to just umd repair wands/scrolls, which enhancements would you recommend to replace those?

*Edit: wentand rolled one of these up, found I still had 2 points left over for stats. I put them into int and added the haggle skill.

Daemonis
08-11-2007, 09:13 AM
Hi Ghoste,

I corrected the starting stats, in that the OP of the build should have started with a base STR = 18, CON=16, CHA = 14. Nice catch. Thanks.

Instead of healers friend I, you may want to consider taking Inscribed armor I as there is a 5%chance of arcane failure when UMDing scrolls. It is a mild annoyance to succeed in your UMD roll on a stoneskin scroll, only to fail because of arcane failure.

If the Haggle skill is important to you, consider maxing that in favor of Jump or balance. Alternatively, leave those extra 2 stat points you cleverly discovered into INT. The loss of 14HP wont make or break the build.

Keep me posted on your experience with the build!

Cheers, -Daemonis

Daemonis
08-11-2007, 10:31 AM
Hi Ghoste,

Here are some thoughts regarding basic/common equipment to obtain early in your career to help your Warforgedchanter thrive:

At low levels (i.e., <5), work hard to obtain:
1) Several Rings of Rage (as rage spell) – for an extra boost to STR and CON. I had a tool bar full of them and was near perma-raged. Once you hit level 4, you won’t need these anymore as you can cast the spell.
2) Ring of light fortification (brings your WF up to Moderate fortification status!).
2) +1Elemental greataxe (especially fire, equipable at level2 to serve as your primary lowbie weapon until you earn your Carnifex)
3) +1Holy quarter staff (equipable at level4).
4) +1Ghostetouch greataxe or quarterstaff (equipable at level 2 or 4).
5) +1Shockingburst shortbow (equipable at level4)
6) +1Acidguard docent
7) +1Charisma trinket (I forget the name, easy to obtain on the AH)

I wouldn’t attempt Delerahs until you are level 4 and you have your undead gear in place (i.e., holy quarterstaff, ghostetouch, and acidguard docent).

Once you hit level 4, keep running Delerahs until you obtain your Carnifex and the Linen wraps (+4STR).

At mid levels (5-8)
Work hard to obtain:
1) +1Fearsome docent
2) +1Deathblock docent
3) Moderate fortification docent or item.
4) +3Con Belt from Tangleroot.
5) 3 Visors of the flesh renders (Tangleroot end reward -->6min of deathward/visor that you own).

You may want to upgrade your holy quarterstaff (e.g., to a Holy of righteousness). I also would obtain a flamingburst or acid quarterstaff for rust monsters too. That’s about it.

You CAN start equipping basic Greaterbane greataxes or quarterstaffs as soon as level 8, if you want to improve your DPS over and above Carnifex, but that’s only if you have the backpack space for these situational weapons and want to be very competitive for kill counts.

Enjoy! -Daemonis

Ghoste
08-11-2007, 04:17 PM
I have a question about spell selection:
Why shadowwalk? And why mindfog? The build doesnt seem very stealth oriented, and it also doesnt use spells that require will saves. Is the mind fog just to help the wizards and sorcs in the party?

Daemonis
08-12-2007, 01:52 AM
Hi Ghoste,

I selected Mindfog for one purpose, really. It is part of a 1-2 combo I use in Gianthold Tor. I.e., extended mindfog+extended otto's sphere to help bolster the Otto's dancing sphere effectiveness overtime during the initial Giant onslaught.

BTW, I have been pleasantly surprised to find that despite the builds relatively low CHA (mine is sitting at just 22 on my 13th lvl Warforgedchanter, Trouvere), Otto's sphere is surpisingly effective CC - even on elite level Gianthold quests.

I haven't actually tried Shadow walk yet. You are right, in that this isnt a steath build, but it may be helpful for soloing (e.g., shadow-walk and then fascinate). This hypothesis remains untested, however. Another spell may be a better selection.

Cheers! -Daemonis

MysticRhythms
08-13-2007, 11:14 AM
Not sure if it was mentioned but the Warchanter specialty requires the Inspired Braery II enhancement which costs 3 action points. I didn't see it in the build.

Or I'm a moron and blind.

Redshift
08-15-2007, 12:01 AM
Well someone on Argonnessen who was playing a Maldini barbarian said you smoked him so I am interested. Not really any space except in my permadeath guild though. I think I shall call him Juxbox.

Yup, that was I, Magitek.

We were in Gianthold running something and he constantly saved us. If things got sticky, fascinate. He had the doors held up with Otto's spheres and made the quest pretty easy, all the while, outkillin' me.

Now I've rolled one of my own, Busheedo. (I'm the original Bushido but someone has taken my name.....)

The build is kinda flimsy right now (only lv 3) but I can tell by my kills and just the feel of the build, that it'll be great and fun. Oh yeah, found a Maelstrom on the auction house for only 100,000 yesterday so that'll be my axe till I hit Delera's and get the Carniflex. Once I get the displacement/blurring going on, yeah, great fun.
..................
And yeah Mystic, inspired bravery II isn't in the build template above but it is required for warchanter. Prolly just a look over. However I think that there are 2 ap missing from the template ... I could be wrong but I think that if you just add the bravery into the mix you'll come up with the right numbers..... Haven't really checked myself.

Daemonis
08-15-2007, 08:40 AM
Hi Redshift & Mysticrhythms,

When I reposted the build template, after the great forum purge...it was an old version that I had cut in paste from an old word document. Nice catch! The build template does indeed work correctly if you substitute Lingering Song I and II with Inspired Bravery I and II. I corrected the OP. AP are infact kinda tight so there isn't much wiggle room for taking others if you want the max attack/damage boost from the songs. There may be an extra AP or 2 left over once lvl14 is obtained and Inspired Attack III is taken. I'll let you know once I cap him and post his final stats/progression.

BTW, you can consider your songs much like 4 minute rages. Don't worry about the 4 minute durations on songs - as you will have plenty to keep the yourself and your party buffed (and they are non-dispellable!) in between shrines. IIRC, at lvl13, I have 17songs/shrine. So basically, 8 basic IC+IG songs/shrine = 32 minutes of non-dispellable attack/damage/HP/and save bonuses. Or 20 minutes/shrine if you do the full-bardic song buffs: IC+IG+Warchanter to grant the extra DR5/-.

Thanks for your interest in the build. I love the versatility. It's great being a totally self-sufficient off tank that:
1) Makes a decent showing in kill counts (if that matters to you)
2) Posesses no-fail CC for all foes except named bosses and oozes.
3) Posesses Otto's sphere that works surprisingly well when setting up door/hallways even on elite level GH quests (despite having only 22 CHA)
4) Can dimension door at will
5) Greatly increases the melee capabilities of my teammates
6) Can serve as a back-up healer who has a good chance of raising fallen teammates via raise dead scrolls.

At lvl13, my Warforgedchanter Trouvere has really become my favorite all-around character that I play! I wish you the best and hope you enjoy yours!

Note that I had previously posted gear at low to mid levels that you should strive to achieve to help make your Warforgedchanter thrive at lower levels.

Cheers, -Daemonis

spifflove
08-23-2007, 01:40 AM
Warforged Warchanters are starting to multiply in my Permadeath guild:D I love wearing the great horned helm (not a magic item just cool looking) and swinging my great ax around. Others are starting to take notice.

Quartzite
08-23-2007, 04:25 AM
I'm still getting "A Warforged Bard? That's a first" But every group I've been in so far has been quite happy to have me along. A couple of people have mentioned that they want to make Warchanters, so I'm assuming I'm a good influence.

kanbeki
08-24-2007, 10:00 PM
I have a WF bard myself, and I was just wondering why you didn't dip a level of fighter? You wouldn't lose anything as far as I can tell except spell DC's maybe? All the free feats would be worth it IMO

Quartzite
08-25-2007, 02:17 AM
I have a WF bard myself, and I was just wondering why you didn't dip a level of fighter? You wouldn't lose anything as far as I can tell except spell DC's maybe? All the free feats would be worth it IMO

He explains this in an earlier post, but the main justification is so he can have max level spells at the next cap raise. Level 16 a Bard gets 2 6th level spells. Not to mention 14th Bard now gets an extra song, spell, more SP, +1 to Inspire Courage, etc.

Personally I went the 13 Bard/ 1 Fighter route. It gives me virtually 2 feats because I get 2h weapon proficiencies automatically, it also means I can use a Maul instead of a Quarterstaff for my blunt weapon. For one of my feats I took Toughness, as well as the Fighter's Toughness Enhancement, so it's a substantial HP boost over this build. I am also taking Stunning Blow w/ WF and Fighter Enhancements. It's basically a preference thing, but I would close to never build a battlebard without a level of a full BAB class.

Fennario
09-11-2007, 12:53 PM
Very similiar to the build that I came up with. It has been a real blast to play.

The one thing that I did differently is I started with a 16 strength. I just don't think 6 build points is worth the +1 to hit/damage. Especially on a build like this who already has a pretty high to hit and damage with all the buffage.

Instead I took those 6 points and put them into constitution (18) and intelligence (10). This lets me max out 6 skills total, and gives a few more hitpoints.

Just my opinion... awesome build any way you decide to go with it.:)

spifflove
09-11-2007, 12:58 PM
He explains this in an earlier post, but the main justification is so he can have max level spells at the next cap raise. Level 16 a Bard gets 2 6th level spells. Not to mention 14th Bard now gets an extra song, spell, more SP, +1 to Inspire Courage, etc.

Personally I went the 13 Bard/ 1 Fighter route. It gives me virtually 2 feats because I get 2h weapon proficiencies automatically, it also means I can use a Maul instead of a Quarterstaff for my blunt weapon. For one of my feats I took Toughness, as well as the Fighter's Toughness Enhancement, so it's a substantial HP boost over this build. I am also taking Stunning Blow w/ WF and Fighter Enhancements. It's basically a preference thing, but I would close to never build a battlebard without a level of a full BAB class.

Ya I decided to go 1 level of barb to save on feats and get warchanter sooner (I hope).

hazur
09-11-2007, 05:47 PM
Greetings,

My first bard was a warforged, I think they are really cool. :) Anyway, I would personally suggest remaining pure bard as well for this build. It is very tempting to pick up the fighter level, but missing out on spells and potential enhancements later on is not worth it. You also miss out on song power. Good build, looks like you know your stuff.

Regards,
Booser

Daemonis
09-11-2007, 08:08 PM
Updated the build after reaching lvl14. Enjoy!

Stonebread
09-11-2007, 08:17 PM
I started a build like this as well (named THX)

However, I just had to take a lvl of Barbarian so I could call myself a "Bardarian"

:D

Blind_Skwerl
09-18-2007, 04:22 AM
Just started one of these guys on Thelanis. Looks like a good time. If anyone has a Maelstrom to spare, send it to Headbanger. I will compensate you. :)

Kizer
09-18-2007, 07:30 AM
I have two on Thelanis, but one is on my dorf warchanter and the other is on my warforgedchanter... though I am thinking about deleting the warforged and sticking with the dorfy. I also have been considering rerolling the dorf and not maxing STR and using those 6 extra skill points to get other stats up.

I could have a spare Maelstrom on Thelanis, heh. ;)

Kreaper
09-18-2007, 09:08 AM
I have been considering this type of build for some time. Why are you going to delete the WF and keep the Dorf?

Blind_Skwerl
09-18-2007, 02:19 PM
my guess would be because of the axe enhancements

Kizer
09-18-2007, 07:57 PM
Yeah, Axe Enhancements is one, I also splashed 1 level of fighter on the warforge and tripping/sundering is fun and effective with all the enhancements, but we get too much at level 16 and 20 to really consider splashing anything imo. It's also more group friendly than a wf. With the right group makeup wf is fine, but for you average pug, I like being able to heal myself and use potions, rather than having to swap in wands and use repair serious pots (umd is pretty low on this build for awhile, so it can be tough to use repair wands efficiently). Where as with cure wands there is no umd check and clerics don't cringe when healing you.

Blind_Skwerl
09-21-2007, 04:52 AM
Level 6 now, finally got my Carnifex. :)

Blind_Skwerl
09-21-2007, 08:19 PM
Great dps, decent CC & survivability. At level 6 I am getting a +16 to attack with the carnifex after self-buffing. Oh and crits are awsome too. The DR -6 (5 from warchanter, 1 from wf enhancement) is decent, but I think I may need better for soloing. Well see what future levels bring...

Blind_Skwerl
09-26-2007, 10:55 PM
Thinking I am going to splash a level of fighter at 8, so right before I level I need to use a dragonshard to get rid of the greataxe proficiency feat. any reccomendations for the extra feats folks?

skraus1
09-26-2007, 11:17 PM
Actually that would give you two feats
You can go 2 up the thfing chain.
You could get cleave, great cleave
Toughness+ one other of those listed above.

Blind_Skwerl
09-27-2007, 12:55 AM
Yeah I knew it would free up two, thus the "feats".

I'm thinking of toughness and THF or maybe whirlwind attack.

skraus1
09-27-2007, 12:13 PM
Sorry misread it I guess.

Whirlwind attack needs dodge, mobility, CE, and spring attack first, so it's pretty much a pure fighter only thing.

Cleave isn't as nifty but is similar. It basically is used to debuff groups of mobs at the same time. It also is good with vorpels I believe.

Toughness is a must have for Dwarves, fighters and Barbs, but for the rest it is just an ok feat. For your built it would equal 21 hp with the level 1 fighter enhancement.

Blind_Skwerl
10-08-2007, 06:43 PM
1 fighter / 7 bard now. Swinging my vorpal and paralyzing greatswords and leading kill counts while everyone still says, "A warforged bard? I thought you were a barbarian until I saw it was you casting the extended haste." Great fun indeed! :D

MrCow
10-08-2007, 09:02 PM
The DR -6 (5 from warchanter, 1 from wf enhancement) is decent

The Warchanter song stacks with other forms of DR, and a different set of DR at that? I didn't think that was possible...

I lack a warchanter so I can't confirm that. :p

EinarMal
10-09-2007, 07:07 AM
The Warchanter song stacks with other forms of DR, and a different set of DR at that? I didn't think that was possible...

I lack a warchanter so I can't confirm that. :p

DR never stacks.

Blind_Skwerl
10-10-2007, 08:14 PM
I just assumed it did. My character sheet showed DR 5 and DR 1.

EinarMal
10-11-2007, 06:38 AM
I just assumed it did. My character sheet showed DR 5 and DR 1.

I am pretty sure it is like concealment (Blur/Displacement) and other things. The highest number overrides the lower. DR is a little different because you have different types of DR. For example the warforged has 1/adamantine while the DR from warchanter is DR 5/-.

I would drop the warforged DR if you are protected by the warchanter song most of the time. You can always check your combat log but the DR 5/- should always override the 1/adamantine since the - means it applies to everything.

nbhs275
10-11-2007, 08:41 AM
although i like wf, the warchanter enhancment being pretty lame, and the multiple hits a wf takes in this case, your gunna be far behind a well balanced bard.

Less spell points
less umd
less hitpoints
worse saves
Weaker melee
much weaker casting

nice explainations and writeup, but im sorry to say that a build like this is at a disadvantage.

geezee
10-11-2007, 09:18 AM
although i like wf, the warchanter enhancment being pretty lame, and the multiple hits a wf takes in this case, your gunna be far behind a well balanced bard.

Less spell points
less umd
less hitpoints
worse saves
Weaker melee
much weaker casting

nice explainations and writeup, but im sorry to say that a build like this is at a disadvantage.

lol...It's only one of the best solo builds in the game, but other than that it's at a disadvantage!

nbhs275
10-11-2007, 09:47 AM
lol...It's only one of the best solo builds in the game, but other than that it's at a disadvantage!

well if its one of the best, then my dwarf bard must be even higher up on that list of best solo builds.

Blind_Skwerl
10-11-2007, 06:01 PM
My battlebard will have a 30 umd at level 14. Good enough for me.
Weaker melee? Weaker than a full out dps barbarian, that's about it. This character is doing way more dps than my level 14 evasion tank.
I wouldn't mind more hitpoints, but I don't consider them neccesary with the blur/displacement combined with the ability to self-heal.
Saves? Let's talk immunities. What are your dwarfs immunities?
Casting-wise I am almost strictly for buffs because I am a Battlebard, so my spell pool doesn't have to be huge and I don't have to worry about DC's. My songs still rock.

geezee
10-12-2007, 12:05 AM
Hard to take that post seriously. So do tell what is this almighty bard build which is better in every way?

skraus1
10-12-2007, 05:23 AM
although i like wf, the warchanter enhancment being pretty lame, and the multiple hits a wf takes in this case, your gunna be far behind a well balanced bard.

Less spell points
less umd
less hitpoints
worse saves
Weaker melee
much weaker casting

nice explainations and writeup, but im sorry to say that a build like this is at a disadvantage.

Although I personally don't like WF, if you want to play a WF bard, this is a good build. Dwarves have the same -2 to cha, but can take better advantage of their healing and the nice dwarven enhancements. WF have their perks too. I don't follow the rest of your claims as this is a fairly balanced build.

For example,
Dwarven casting = WF casting
Dwarven UMD = wf umd
Dwarven spell points = wf spell points

I don't see dwarven bards as any more "balanced" bards than wf. They're naturally melee orientated, as are wf. Drow are naturally caster/ranged orientated.

Cedrica-the-Bard
10-12-2007, 11:59 PM
although i like wf, the warchanter enhancment being pretty lame, and the multiple hits a wf takes in this case, your gunna be far behind a well balanced bard.

Less spell points
less umd
less hitpoints
worse saves
Weaker melee
much weaker casting

nice explainations and writeup, but im sorry to say that a build like this is at a disadvantage.

Wow, how incredibly rude.

Mad_Bombardier
10-13-2007, 08:14 AM
Wow, how incredibly rude.Yeah, he doesn't like the Warchanter specialty (probably because it's feat intensive). My guildies love it and applaud me for taking it. At level 7, my ONE song gives +3 to-hit/+5 dmg. What else beats that at level 7? Oh yeah, nothing! :p Weaker melee... :rolleyes:

geezee
10-13-2007, 09:37 AM
Yeah, he doesn't like the Warchanter specialty (probably because it's feat intensive). My guildies love it and applaud me for taking it. At level 7, my songs give +3 to-hit/+5 dmg. What else beats that at level 7? Oh yeah, nothing! :p Weaker melee... :rolleyes:

What beats the pure warchanter at any level for that matter?

nbhs275
10-13-2007, 10:04 AM
My battlebard will have a 30 umd at level 14. Good enough for me.
Weaker melee? Weaker than a full out dps barbarian, that's about it. This character is doing way more dps than my level 14 evasion tank.
I wouldn't mind more hitpoints, but I don't consider them neccesary with the blur/displacement combined with the ability to self-heal.
Saves? Let's talk immunities. What are your dwarfs immunities?
Casting-wise I am almost strictly for buffs because I am a Battlebard, so my spell pool doesn't have to be huge and I don't have to worry about DC's. My songs still rock.

DPS is nice, but becomes null and void, as soon as your dead. Which is gunna happen pretty often with the 1-2 punch of low melee hitpoints(only around 230 i think) and very slow self healing(with only a 30 umd reconstructionscrolls are only 50% reliant,so each scroll is really worth only 55 points of healing).

Then, their is also your weakness in CC, which lets even more damage in. At high levels of this game, blur and displacement defenses are often null, seeing most(read all) high end casters have trueseeing, and like to give it to their allies.

Please, no one make the fascinate = CC arguement, because it tend to just be either a panic or zerg button, and with its limited numbers of uses, can't be relied on very often.

The immunities are nice, such as immunity to negative levels and hold, but those are only some problems, and can't really do what good saves can.

the difference between dancing(or commanded or whatever it be) on a 20, and a 17 can be as large as 15%. So yet another immoble situation, where yet again your lower hitpoints will seal the deal and your death.

To say that casting isnt part of a battle bard is kinda weak. I think if my bard does 95% of the DPS of yours, but holds 35% of its targets, that i win for DPS. And my dances and orbs stop me from needing to heal as much, meaning i swing more, ergo more damage.

Then thier is always the arcane failure you have on all spells you cast, unless you spend an enhancment point on an already tight enhancment sheet, will always be nagging you. You really need that reconstruct to go off? well you only got a 50% chance of activating it, followed up by a 5% chance it will fail anyways.

So im sorry, but if your going to make the argument for a great solo build, then the character should be able to do everything verywell.

the difference between my build in yours is

+10 umd for me
+3 to all saves for me
+120 hp for me
- neg lvl immunity for me
+350 sp for me
+4 on my spell dcs
-5% DPS for me
+100% self healing for me

Does anyone have a build like this on khyber that is maxxed? i would LOOOVE to prove to you that your +2 damage isnt worth all these losses.

Yet again to the OP, this is about as good of a warchanter i've seen, but it still doesnt compare to a well balanced bard.

skraus1
10-13-2007, 12:58 PM
Then, their is also your weakness in CC, which lets even more damage in. At high levels of this game, blur and displacement defenses are often null, seeing most(read all) high end casters have trueseeing, and like to give it to their allies.


Dude, have you even used blur or displacement? Only a few things have trueseeing, and most of those only occasionally.

Oh and how is your CC holding up in the orchard? Rocking as always?

A_Sheep
10-13-2007, 01:34 PM
the difference between my build in yours is

+10 umd for me (If you started with 16 cha, took 1 more level of bard cha, wore a +6 item, used a +3 tome, and took SF:UMD, that's only +6 difference. Figuring in 7-fingered gloves or a luck bonus item would be a little unfair comparison-wise)
+3 to all saves for me
+120 hp for me
- neg lvl immunity for me
-Hold Person Immunity
+350 sp for me
+4 on my spell dcs
-40% DPS
+80% (although 0% difference when using wands) self healing for me
-25% Fortification
-Poison/Disease Immunity
-100% Healability by a friendly arcane caster for Nbhs


*sigh* I thought we'd thoroughly discussed this, nbhs. Your build is NOT 5% behind this one in DPS. If I remember correctly, we calculated that you were in the 60 DPS range while this build is probably (mostly guessing) in the 100 DPS range (i.e. he is 66% more DPS than you and you are 40% less DPS than him). We can recalculate it for you if you like, but your build's thread has disappeared, so we'd need a repost.

The Balanced Bard build you posted a while back is not in many people's opinion balanced. It sacrifices many attributes to survivability. Not knocking the build you have. It is a good build, but it is not as good at melee as EinarMal's balanced bard nor is it as good at CC casting. The Balanced Bard is more 'survivable', although that is debatable due to enemies dying more slowly or landing crowd control less often.

Would you like to meet up on Risia sometime with Taalisyn and we can run a few quests together? I think most forum hostility like yours comes from not really thinking of folks on the internet as people. Questing with one of the 'not as good as yours bard'-s might make a positive influence on that.

nbhs275
10-13-2007, 01:39 PM
Dude, have you even used blur or displacement? Only a few things have trueseeing, and most of those only occasionally.

Oh and how is your CC holding up in the orchard? Rocking as always?

yeah, i use blue and displacement, but its not foolproof. Remember, 50% is only gunna stop so much, especially when everything hits you on 2.

CC in the orchard is still cake. Fear, hold, and dance anything living with ease. If its undead? i got the same options as you, either panic button music or just kill it. Thing is i can use the just kill it method and not die.

210 hp it takes10 hits to kill you, so 20 hits with displacment will most likely drop you

330 is 16 hits. 32 hits with displacment. Hence your going down a hell of a lot faster, especially when you factory in that i can use a cure serious spell for 70ish hp, and you would get what? 20 maybe if you cast it?

When displacement is your ONLY defense, without high saves and hp to back it up, the front line isnt for you.

Blind_Skwerl
10-13-2007, 03:37 PM
DPS is nice, but becomes null and void, as soon as your dead. Which is gunna happen pretty often with the 1-2 punch of low melee hitpoints(only around 230 i think) and very slow self healing(with only a 30 umd reconstructionscrolls are only 50% reliant,so each scroll is really worth only 55 points of healing).

Then, their is also your weakness in CC, which lets even more damage in. At high levels of this game, blur and displacement defenses are often null, seeing most(read all) high end casters have trueseeing, and like to give it to their allies.

Please, no one make the fascinate = CC arguement, because it tend to just be either a panic or zerg button, and with its limited numbers of uses, can't be relied on very often.

The immunities are nice, such as immunity to negative levels and hold, but those are only some problems, and can't really do what good saves can.

the difference between dancing(or commanded or whatever it be) on a 20, and a 17 can be as large as 15%. So yet another immoble situation, where yet again your lower hitpoints will seal the deal and your death.

To say that casting isnt part of a battle bard is kinda weak. I think if my bard does 95% of the DPS of yours, but holds 35% of its targets, that i win for DPS. And my dances and orbs stop me from needing to heal as much, meaning i swing more, ergo more damage.

Then thier is always the arcane failure you have on all spells you cast, unless you spend an enhancment point on an already tight enhancment sheet, will always be nagging you. You really need that reconstruct to go off? well you only got a 50% chance of activating it, followed up by a 5% chance it will fail anyways.

So im sorry, but if your going to make the argument for a great solo build, then the character should be able to do everything verywell.

the difference between my build in yours is

+10 umd for me
+3 to all saves for me
+120 hp for me
- neg lvl immunity for me
+350 sp for me
+4 on my spell dcs
-5% DPS for me
+100% self healing for me

Does anyone have a build like this on khyber that is maxxed? i would LOOOVE to prove to you that your +2 damage isnt worth all these losses.

Yet again to the OP, this is about as good of a warchanter i've seen, but it still doesnt compare to a well balanced bard.


I guarentee you are not up to this level of dps if you have your casting maxed. Try -40%.
I actually am self-healing too. I don't have to use just reconstruct scrolls.
Not all capped casters have trueseeing (Read: My 2 capped casters)
If I equipt ultimately, I could hit a 36 umd I think. Big woop.

A_Sheep
10-13-2007, 03:50 PM
210 hp it takes10 hits to kill you, so 20 hits with displacment will most likely drop you

330 is 16 hits. 32 hits with displacment. Hence your going down a hell of a lot faster, especially when you factory in that i can use a cure serious spell for 70ish hp, and you would get what? 20 maybe if you cast it?


why compare 210 HP to 330 HP?

The posted Warforgedchanter build claims to have 226 HP before false life items/temporary HP. That's without the 16 HP from the Minos Legens helmet that he will possibly be sporting after some time in the orchard.

I want your build post back so we can verify your claims a little better and understand the decisions you made to produce a build that you claim is better than this one. My guess is that the difference between your build and this is not as large as you think.

MrCow
10-14-2007, 08:56 AM
although i like wf, the warchanter enhancment being pretty lame, and the multiple hits a wf takes in this case, your gunna be far behind a well balanced bard.

nice explainations and writeup, but im sorry to say that a build like this is at a disadvantage.

A comparison (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1389779&postcount=7) of the Warforgedchanter and your bardic build has been posted on your thread. It shows only the parts that are not really something you change through the course of the game (ability scores, feats, enhancements) so it excludes your large pile of raid loot to show where the actual differences are.

Cedrica-the-Bard
10-15-2007, 08:07 AM
A Warchanter comment (not really to do with being Warforged, but still interesting)

So, I solo tapestries with my strength-based Dwarf 12Ranger/2Barbarian. She has 26 strength. She has FE Undead, using a +5 shield and +4 Ghost Touch Dwarven Axe, fully buffed (with Rage, BS, haste pots, etc..), she has about 300 HP with an AC around 40.

In the cave with the phase in and out dude (can't remember his name but it's the cave that drops you to the other side if you go out the second exit), she can kill the named but goes through about 25 charges on a Cure Serious wand to get it done. He hits her every time and she almost always has to take a break to run around healing herself before finishing him off. It's rough!

Now I take my Dwarf 13Bard/1Fighter Warchanter in there. His strength is also 26, he also uses a +4 ghost touch dwarven axe and a +5 shield. His HP are about 300 fully buffed and his AC is around 40. His songs outdo the Ranger but with the BAB difference and the FE Undead benefit to the Ranger, the Bard is probably only slightly better in the attack and damage department. My point is, they are roughly equivalent with the exception of Discplacement and the Warchanter song. And guess how many charges the Warchanter uses from his wand for this battle? Maybe 1 or 2. He barely takes any damage at all. That guy drops fast and all I see in the combat screen are "because you are displaced!" and little to no bludgeon damage due to the Warchanter damage reduction.

Yeah I may invest in a Hammerblock item for the Ranger to save on wands, but my point is, the Warchanter enhancement ROCKS!!!!!

nbhs275
10-15-2007, 10:14 AM
displacment has nothing to do with warchanter and the 5 dr is only helpful when you don't have any item for it. Its not really a large portion of the warchanter enhancment

Cedrica-the-Bard
10-15-2007, 10:34 AM
displacment has nothing to do with warchanter and the 5 dr is only helpful when you don't have any item for it. Its not really a large portion of the warchanter enhancment

You're right, Displacement has nothing to do with a Warchanter but I was comparing my Ranger to my Warchanter, last I checked my Ranger didn't have Displacement! n:rolleyes:

Cedrica-the-Bard
10-15-2007, 10:58 AM
210 hp it takes10 hits to kill you, so 20 hits with displacment will most likely drop you

330 is 16 hits. 32 hits with displacment. Hence your going down a hell of a lot faster, especially when you factory in that i can use a cure serious spell for 70ish hp, and you would get what? 20 maybe if you cast it?



OK, so doing the math, you are assuming an average of 21 points of damage taken per hit. With the Warchanter song going, that becomes 16 damage per hit (21-5 from DR/-), therefore 251 HP on a Warchanter is equivalent to 330 HP on the non-Warchanter. My Warchanter, while not a Warforged, has 256 HP before any buffs so my Con is better spent elsewhere. :p

Finally, is there an item in game that gives DR 5 against every form of damage??? Wow, I want one... but my guess is that it doesn't give it to all party members, thus making the Cleric's life much easier.

nbhs275
10-15-2007, 11:54 AM
OK, so doing the math, you are assuming an average of 21 points of damage taken per hit. With the Warchanter song going, that becomes 16 damage per hit (21-5 from DR/-), therefore 251 HP on a Warchanter is equivalent to 330 HP on the non-Warchanter. My Warchanter, while not a Warforged, has 256 HP before any buffs so my Con is better spent elsewhere. :p

Finally, is there an item in game that gives DR 5 against every form of damage??? Wow, I want one... but my guess is that it doesn't give it to all party members, thus making the Cleric's life much easier.

There is invul. , hammerblock, spearblock, and axeblock, all easily found on robes, often with a second usefull ability.

And DR isnt the ultimate damage reducer, thats CC and smart play.

Mad_Bombardier
10-15-2007, 01:19 PM
There is invul. , hammerblock, spearblock, and axeblock, all easily found on robes, often with a second usefull ability.Invulnerability is basically useless by the time you can get the affix on robes/armor. *Most* mobs in quests higher than level 8 have Magic weapons that bypass Invulnerability. Until we see Improved or Greater Spear/Hammer/Axe-block, Ironskin chant does a good job. Also, you can get Warchanter at level 6, before your party has race, class, or item DR5.

nbhs275
10-15-2007, 02:18 PM
Invulnerability is basically useless by the time you can get the affix on robes/armor. *Most* mobs in quests higher than level 8 have Magic weapons that bypass Invulnerability. Until we see Improved or Greater Spear/Hammer/Axe-block, Ironskin chant does a good job. Also, you can get Warchanter at level 6, before your party has race, class, or item DR5.

and the chant also lasts for what? a min and a half at that level? and you got what? 6-7 songs? so thats not even going to last long enough if you use all your songs for it to get you from shrine to shrine. Invulnerability is ****, but its worth it at the lows, and by the time your at lvl 8, stoneskin scrolls are easily UMD by a good bard. More DR, and not burning songs for short duration.

There is greater spear block on the DQ gloves, though im not sure how worthwhile those are to keep on, as slots tend to be tight.

sigtrent
10-15-2007, 02:37 PM
Ironskin is a bit too short in duration to really be a great ability, IMHO. I so use it but mostly just before a big fight. Stoneskin is better for "personal protection".

From a party standpoint, Ironskin is pretty nice for a pre-fight buff. Giving everyone 5/- is pretty nice from a resource conservation standpoint. I tend to use it more to protect others than myself.

Blind_Skwerl
10-16-2007, 05:09 PM
I use the ironskin to hit the group when we are all together. Lasts about 2:40. I got lots of songs so why not? It's also fun to see people freak out about it if they haven't seen/heard it before. Also get to hear people screaming, "who cast rage on me?!"

BTW- Just hit 10 (9bard/1fighter) with my WF warchanter. Self-buffed, with strength 4 on, power attack off, wielding a Carnifex (+2 greataxe): +27 to hit, 1 D12 +20 damage, 17-20 x3 crit. Now if only I can get my hands on a bloodstone. :D Damage Incorporated! :D

miceelf88
11-15-2007, 09:26 AM
So, this is a dumb question for me, as I just built this and am thinking about spells, which is the only area of this build that makes me a little nervous.

Grease? Really? I can see it in soloing, but won't using it in groups make people even more skeptical than they already are predisposed to be?

A_Sheep
11-15-2007, 10:07 AM
So, this is a dumb question for me, as I just built this and am thinking about spells, which is the only area of this build that makes me a little nervous.

Grease? Really? I can see it in soloing, but won't using it in groups make people even more skeptical than they already are predisposed to be?

I've never tried to use it, but if you keep Freedom of Movement on the whole party, I can see the reasoning behind it. It slows mobs down and could knock a few without high reflex over, too.

Mad_Bombardier
11-15-2007, 10:12 AM
It slows mobs down and could knock a few without high reflex over, too.Have they fixed it? It did not before. Players run in place across grease making about 5-6 saves to get from one side of the slick to the other. Mobs run across at full speed (even uphill) making 1-2 saves. That alone is the reason to never use Grease.

miceelf88
11-15-2007, 10:13 AM
Doh! Of course, with FOM, it makes sense.

The OP also acknowledged some skepticism about Shadow walk. I wonder if there are other spells that might be judiciously swapped out?

I assume expeditious retreat is primarily for battlefield mobility?

A_Sheep
11-15-2007, 01:48 PM
Have they fixed it? It did not before. Players run in place across grease making about 5-6 saves to get from one side of the slick to the other. Mobs run across at full speed (even uphill) making 1-2 saves. That alone is the reason to never use Grease.

Hmmm, good question.

I know it knocks mobs over, but I don't know if it slows them down. Probably doesn't as you suggest. I could swear there was a nice you-tube video of some mobs sliding downhil into a firewall, though....Maybe it was party members into a trap.

Mad_Bombardier
11-15-2007, 01:50 PM
I could swear there was a nice you-tube video of some mobs sliding downhil into a firewall, though....That could have been players in one of the new Necropolis traps. Theres one that sends you sliding down a greased ramp through blenders into a fire jet. :D

Nvm, found the vid on YouTube. That was a malicious arcane greasing his allied into the multitude of trap jets in the Twillight Forge. Equally fun! ;)

Blind_Skwerl
11-19-2007, 06:41 AM
Grease is best used for party pranks: "Gather for haste!" :D

CSFurious
11-19-2007, 09:55 AM
this a great build from a very smart player

thanks buddy, i am doing this with one level of fighter

EinarMal
11-19-2007, 06:59 PM
this a great build from a very smart player

thanks buddy, i am doing this with one level of fighter

Might want to hold off on the fighter splash, the new Bard spell that grants martial weapon prof. makes it much more attractive to stay pure Bard (coming in Mod 6). That is a while off though so maybe just take the greataxe feat for now and swap it out later.

Blind_Skwerl
11-20-2007, 05:11 AM
That spell is comming in mod 6? didn't see that. Probably would have taken the fighter level anyway though. Better off to get the martial weapons & the feat with a level of fighter than to stay pure bard to get the top notch spell... to burn on being able to use martial weapons.

EinarMal
11-20-2007, 06:39 AM
That spell is comming in mod 6? didn't see that. Probably would have taken the fighter level anyway though. Better off to get the martial weapons & the feat with a level of fighter than to stay pure bard to get the top notch spell... to burn on being able to use martial weapons.

Yeah they just added it to the notes. It is actually a level 1 spell which the slot is pretty open for battle bards as there aren't that many great level 1 spells to take. So for 10 spell points you get martial weapon prof for 14 minutes so pretty much for free.

It definitely makes the choice a little closer, I would have taken a fighter level for sure on that type of build before but now staying pure is definitely an option. Now it comes down to how much you need another feat versus losing out on maxed out inspire courage (goes up at 20 by +1)

NEW - Master's Touch

Divination
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Range: Personal
The caster gains proficiency with all simple and martial weapons for one minute per caster level.

nbhs275
11-20-2007, 09:36 AM
Yeah they just added it to the notes. It is actually a level 1 spell which the slot is pretty open for battle bards as there aren't that many great level 1 spells to take. So for 10 spell points you get martial weapon prof for 14 minutes so pretty much for free.

It definitely makes the choice a little closer, I would have taken a fighter level for sure on that type of build before but now staying pure is definitely an option. Now it comes down to how much you need another feat versus losing out on maxed out inspire courage (goes up at 20 by +1)

NEW - Master's Touch

Divination
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Range: Personal
The caster gains proficiency with all simple and martial weapons for one minute per caster level.

Thats sweet man, a whole lot simpler then tensor's scrolls.

Blind_Skwerl
11-27-2007, 04:19 PM
Yeah being that it is a level 1 spell, that could do very well with a pure bard. My warforged chanter (12b/1f) was in GH pre-raid last night for the first time... vs. the dragons... +43 to hit!!! Very cool.

Gunga
12-06-2007, 11:47 AM
Not sure if I'd like having to cast a spell in order to equip a weapon... I built my warforged chanter about a month ago. I love it...his name is Ghettoh Blastyr. 5/1 B/F----still on the hunt for Carnifex. Hope to have it by the end of this weekend...

Ghaldar
12-09-2007, 01:50 PM
Was wondering if dwarf axe enhancements would make it a better choice....I know you will loose wf immunities etc. IS there enough enhancement points to max dwarven axe damage as well as the bard enhancements?

alchilito
12-10-2007, 07:44 PM
you rock Taraton.

Blind_Skwerl
12-14-2007, 09:45 PM
Not sure if I'd like having to cast a spell in order to equip a weapon... I built my warforged chanter about a month ago. I love it...his name is Ghettoh Blastyr. 5/1 B/F----still on the hunt for Carnifex. Hope to have it by the end of this weekend...

Just a reminder...

If the spell times out or gets disspelled, you don't lose the ability to equip or wield a martial weapon. You just get that -4 to your attack. I still preffer having the fighter level though.

Questing_Healer
12-24-2007, 05:23 PM
I am following this build exactly on my home server of Sarlona.

I have to say, I am having more fun playing this build than any character that I've played - and I've been playing this game since it hit the shelves. :) My main is a 14th level Spellsinger-spec'd bard that is still my main; he's the one I got 1750 favor with... it's so different to play this type of bard and to be able to hold my own in melee combat, etc.

Nice job on the build. I'm not a math geek or number cruncher, but I will say that this is pure fun, and I seem to bring something to every group I'm in.

-Questing Healer
(Justix, Bloodspike, Ironthrust, Zaaz... Sarlona)

Blind_Skwerl
12-24-2007, 09:45 PM
Yes it is a great time to play one of these. Picked up the 7 fingered gloves on mine last week. I can now hit myself with reconstruct scrolls with decent reliability (75% I think).

miceelf88
01-30-2008, 06:11 PM
Hey! Any thoughts about taking this build to level 16?

Deriaz
02-03-2008, 02:02 AM
Hey! Any thoughts about taking this build to level 16?

My thoughts exactly! Loving my Warforged Bard Warchanter (Even though he's only level 3 so far.). Would definitely love to see this at 16, if I can get it that high.

-D

Blind_Skwerl
02-03-2008, 03:55 PM
Mine is currently 15 (14b/1f). I plan to be 15/1. The new content is really ripping him up. Almost 300 hp, but even with dispacement on, I get hit allot and see my red bar disappear quick. Time to stop playing him like a zerging dps barbarian and actually think about strategy.;) Anyone have have a 2-handed slashing banisher? hehe

miceelf88
02-04-2008, 08:37 AM
My guy is level 5 and he's mainly soloed thus far. He is having a little trouble with the last part of STK and may need to get a group for that one. The big problem he has at low levels is things like fire and acid. Tough to find the appropriate docents in the AH, and my main is chronicly broke so no twinking.

But even with all that- wow. he's gone through the heart tombs like a knife through butter (helps to have an undead bane staff)- also the depths quests. Also makes sashimi out of tangleroot. hell, he did pretty darn well on ironstone inlet.

Will need to group for delera's (obviously), and for a couple of the more challenging House K quests- was able to solo the one with the wraiths, but I suspect the lair of summoning will be tough unless I find a fire resistance docent.

grouped for archer point defense. no cleric and one caster- the rest were rangers, rogues, or barbs. Kept everyone else up and came in second in kill count (mainly because of having to do some wand whipping). prevented a party wipe by a well-placed fascinate. (yes, I know every bard can do this, but it's nice to be able to chop down the fascinated ogres with ease.

Still fun. Early, but time will tell.

Blind_Skwerl
02-04-2008, 12:57 PM
I still run mine all the time, including reaver and titan raids every 3 days. Slowed down a little bit with him since mod 6 because I wanted to focus on one character at a time. He's second after my drow sorc (capped 2 days after mod 6 came out, still trying for a raid completion :)).

Igni
02-04-2008, 03:42 PM
is it possible to roll this build as a 28 pt? If so, what would the starting stats look like?

Blind_Skwerl
02-04-2008, 03:58 PM
The OP did post a 28 point version, but it could get a little tough. Check on the first 2 pages.

sumnz
03-23-2008, 05:17 PM
I have been looking for 2 things recently:

1. A meelee oriented class that can hand out useful buffs and can actually dish out damage which my human 16th paladin has proven innefective at. And

2. An excuse to roll up a robot, well at least not a caster one, those are self sufficient and good.

Got this build to level 7 yesterday. Got my carnifex mucho fun, working on my cartouche. Thank you for posting this build it has been alot of fun. I plan on going 15 bard/1 fighter.

Question: would mithril body be a wasted feat on this build?

skraus1
03-23-2008, 05:36 PM
I
Question: would mithril body be a wasted feat on this build?

Pre giant hold the answer is yes it's useful. Post giant hold, it's worthless.

nbhs275
03-23-2008, 08:23 PM
Pre giant hold the answer is yes it's useful. Post giant hold, it's worthless.

eh, no. If your going to be planning on using greataxes and greatswords ONLY, it is. If your going to be using AC, then its worth it. Easily can have a 50ish AC on a bard.

10 base
5 body
6 docent
7 dex
1 dodge
2 choasguard
4 natural
3 chattering
4 inspire heroics
1 haste
7 shield
____________
50, nevermind possible +4 pally +1 ranger +4 insight

For the average player its not workable, but some can.

sumnz
03-24-2008, 12:50 AM
Was thinking about picking it up at 12th, but that would be post giant hold i supose. Sigh I wish AC mattered in this game like it did 1-10. Its such an important part of the pen and paper experience I cant believe it has met with this kind of demise. When you talk about stuff like needing 45+ in the shroud to make the slightest difference, its sad.

Here is my problem. I just hit 7th and took haste and good hope to help out the party. Havent found a moderate fort item yet and im getting knocked around pretty good. I can dish it out but cant take it at this point. What are the keys to surviving with this build? I would assume stoneskin wands when your high enough level, is extend really worth an already lacking feat slot.

Another quick question. I took greataxe feat at level 1. At level 10 I plan to take my first and only fighter level, which will give me that feat for free, and allow me to pick up improved crit slashing right away, as well as get me some much needed hitpoints. Will I then be able to switch out the greataxe feat at level one without ruining any of my enhancements or higher feats like improved two handed fighting or weapon focus slashing. I would like to change it to toughness at that point.

skraus1
03-24-2008, 02:54 AM
eh, no. If your going to be planning on using greataxes and greatswords ONLY, it is. If your going to be using AC, then its worth it. Easily can have a 50ish AC on a bard.

10 base
5 body
6 docent
7 dex
1 dodge
2 choasguard
4 natural
3 chattering
4 inspire heroics
1 haste
7 shield
____________
50, nevermind possible +4 pally +1 ranger +4 insight

For the average player its not workable, but some can.


If you think burning 2 feats in a feat starved class, plus a highly sought after raid loot is 1) easy and 2) worth it in the end game, then go for it.

For me this doesn't seem like a high dps thing to do, which is what the op I understood was after.

skraus1
03-24-2008, 04:13 AM
Another quick question. I took greataxe feat at level 1. At level 10 I plan to take my first and only fighter level, which will give me that feat for free, and allow me to pick up improved crit slashing right away, as well as get me some much needed hitpoints. Will I then be able to switch out the greataxe feat at level one without ruining any of my enhancements or higher feats like improved two handed fighting or weapon focus slashing. I would like to change it to toughness at that point.

Switching it out for toughness shouldn't mess up anything or cause any problems.

nbhs275
03-24-2008, 10:10 AM
If you think burning 2 feats in a feat starved class, plus a highly sought after raid loot is 1) easy and 2) worth it in the end game, then go for it.

For me this doesn't seem like a high dps thing to do, which is what the op I understood was after.

Like i said at the end of the post, not everyone would be able to swing it.


But to say that DPS cannot be obtained on the same build as AC, is kind of short sighted. As far as it being feat starved, as it is right now it has 2(two) undeclared feats. You no longer need proficiency greataxe, and you have your level 15 feat. Nevermind the fact that he could easily tack on 1 fighter level and get another. Chattering ring isnt easy to find. I think we all know that. But it should be in consideration that if you happen to get one you could make an AC build.

Quicktoez's bard is a good example of this. He does very good DPS, and has a very high AC. Its something like

10 base
10 delving suit
8 dexterity
2 choasguard
1 dodge
3 chattering
5 protection
4 natural
4 heroic
1 haste
4 shield wand
_____________
52 standing

Makes him a very tough customer in PVP and quests.

Questing_Healer
05-12-2008, 11:43 PM
Out of curiosity, a question to the original poster -

Have you expanded this build to level 16 yet? Approaching level 14 on it myself as one of my favorite alternate characters, I am wondering what direction others have taken with this concept.

To the original poster - I am fond of your warforged builds in general, so I am wondering if you have taken this one to 16 yet? I know that I run into a bit of a problem in the Vale and pre-shroud quests in particular because most of the mobs have true seeing, which negates my displacement; causing me to get hit a lot... but I still seem to do okay, and everyone appreciates my full complement of warchanter buffs. :) I find my role being one of secondary melee using the paralyze/banish/disrupt/vorpal line of weapons, buffing the other melees, and offering UMD capabilities. I was wondering what others have discovered.

Thanks,
QH

Blind_Skwerl
05-17-2008, 04:51 PM
I have a 15/1 warforged similar to the OP's. I think you hit the nail on the head. Uber melee buffer, trash mob destroyer, some UMD heals. DPS can be very good, but you are going to take damage. In normal quests, I can fill many rolls, mostly playing as a dps'er with perma-haste. In the shroud I sometimes take a bit less aggresive approach. My songs/buffs are much more important to the group than my personal dps output.

hydra_ex
06-04-2008, 01:52 PM
Does anyone find this build slightly squishy at the earlier lvls?

spifflove
06-06-2008, 01:28 AM
Does anyone find this build slightly squishy at the earlier lvls?

No with 60 point crits you will slice and dice through most content just dont let yourself get surrounded and be the 2nd person to attack an elite oger.:D

miceelf88
06-26-2008, 10:54 AM
My char using this build is currently level 13, and still having a blast. I really hope the OP checks in sometime with some thoughts/suggestions about what to do after level 14, but I'll muddle through regardless. I found that my realistic solo options kind of dwindled around level 12 or so, but that's not bad, compared to many other classes. Contributes pretty well to most groups (still often leads kill count, depending on quest).

I never did get a Carnifex, didn't have the patience to keep trying after the fifth delera's run. Honestly, I still do pretty good in terms of DPS without it.

Forceonature
07-03-2008, 10:40 AM
Has anyone tried splashing a lvl of Sorcerer in order to use Reconstruct, or are you able to get your UMD high enough for a battle bard build to bypass it?

miceelf88
07-16-2008, 09:41 AM
I don't know what the OP thinks about this, but I've been reading about how in end game, 250-300 hp is too low for a melee. And given that I want to keep this guy meleeing at least some of the time, I've focused on my recent level-up on bumping up the hp. To that end, I took toughness as my level 15 feat, and plan on putting my AP into WF con III. I have no idea if that's the best approach to take, but it's the one I am gonna try out.

Other deviations: I got a +1 tome early on that I put into Str, so my 1750 tome I put into Cha. I have a +6 Str item, so my str isn't suffering that much (same as Daemonis'), and I find that with my cha at 24 my sp are a little more and the dancing ball/mindfog stuff lands a little more reliably. Also, of course, now that performance matters a little bit, that helps fascinate land as well.

Haven't been in the vale yet- still getting the hang of gainthold, hoping to do some of the upper level necro stuff as well before I venture into the vale.

Gorchaka
07-23-2008, 03:25 PM
I wanted to create a bard that would be fun to play and still be able to assist the party. I think the Warchanter would fit in perfectly with what I am looking to play. So after reading this post, I have been inspired to play a Warforged Bard. (I like the Warforged)
I think I get get a little more out of the build by tossing in 2 levels of fighter (for my style anyways)

Heres how I am looking to end up in the end...

BASE STATS (Modified) [Bonus origin]
STR - 16 (26) [ +6 gloves, +2 Tome, +2 level increase ]
DEX - 14 (20) [ +6 Ring]
CON - 16 (24) [ +6 Ring, +2 enhance ]
INT - 8 (14) [ +6 stat ]
WIS - 6 (12) [ +6 stat ]
CHR - 12 (24) [ +6 Helm, +2 enhance, +2 Tome, +2 level increase ]

[class] (level) Feat

[B1] (01) Mithral Body
[F1] (02) Power Attack
[F2] (03) WF: Slash
[B2] (04) -
[B3] (05) -
[B4] (06) Skill:UMD
[B5] (07) -
[B6] (08) -
[B7] (09) Mental Toughness
[B8] (10) -
[B9] (11) -
[B10] (12) IC:Slash
[B11] (13) -
[B12] (14) -
[B13] (15) skill:Perform
[B14] (16) -

[class] (level) enhance

[B1] (01) Insp Bravery I, Energy Music I, Extra song I
[F1] (02) Inscribed Armor I
[F2] (03) -
[B2] (04) Insp damage I, Bard CHA I, WF Con I
[B3] (05) Insp Attack I, WF Power Attack I
[B4] (06) Extra Song II
[B5] (07) Insp Bravery II, Energy II, Inscribe Armor II
[B6] (08) Warchanter, WF Con II, CHA II
[B7] (09) Insp dmg II, WF power attack II
[B8] (10) Insp attack II
[B9] (11) extra song III
[B10] (12) Extra song IV
[B11] (13) -
[B12] (14) Insp dmg III
[B13] (15) Insp attack III, Inscribe armor III
[B14] (16) WF Healer friend I, Energy III

SPells
1st - 4/3
2nd - 4/3
3rd - 4/3
4th - 4/3
5th - 3/1

AC:26
10 Base
05 Mithral Armor feat
05 Dex Bonus
05 Barkskin (wand UMC)
01 Haste

Hits: 236
Spell Pts: 654
Fort: +14
Reflex: +14
Will: +7
BAB: 12\12\17\22

I am a returning player who has only been playing since Saturday (4 days). I bought the game when it was released and cancelled less than 2 weeks later, because it just didn't feel right. After returning, I am quite pleased with the changes and intend on sticking around for a while.
With that said, I would love advice from anyone and everyone.

Big thanks to the OP btw, for turning me on to this build.

groovedaddy
09-14-2008, 04:18 AM
Hi! I have been playing for a while now, and am a profession "re-roller", and I think this might be my first post on the forums. It seems most of my characters end up gimped somehow and I spend more time thinking about how to fix them then actually playing.

Anyway, I have been wanting to build a Warforged Bard for some time now, and have finally cleared out my charcter mules from way back on the server merge. (My problem is that I am a packrat, and had "too much good stuff", which in reality was mostly outdated junk...) :eek: Having finally purged myself of useless items, I managed to create a character slot that I can now call home for my ne WF Warchanter.

I, like one of the previous overlooked posters, did not feel that with all of the buffs, that +1 tohit/damage was worth 6 points in the attribute pool. Instead I opted for a higher Con and Int and decided to use the stats: 16, 8, 18, 10, 6, 14, and go 15 bard/1 Fighter in the build (possibly 14 bard/2 fighter).

My question to you all now, is...Is it a viable option to try to get the entire THF line? (THF, ImpTFH, GrTHF) Here is sort of what I was thinking...

B1 -Power Attack
F(2)-WF:Slash
B3 -THF
B6 -extend
B9 -Imp THF
B12 -IC:Slashing
B15 -GrTHF

If I go for the 2nd level of Fighter, I was thinking I would probably take either toughness or FoP. Is this at all a good idea, or would I be better off not getting the THF line and instead taking toughness, FoP, and mental toughness or something? I would appreciate any comments and constructive criticism that you have.

Much thanks! You guys rock!

Groovedaddy :)

seldarin
09-14-2008, 06:44 AM
I dont know if its already been asked or answered, but i would seriously think about dropping Music of Makers and Music of the Dead at higher lvl. Once you have disruptors, greater ele bane etc, as most groups do, those enhancements are superfluous, and at high end content dont stick, so pretty much a waste of enhancements IMO. I have just respecced my bard from spellsinger to warchanter, and have dropped them both. Couldnt pass up haggle :)

I tried virtuoso at lower lvls to get maker of the dead early on as well, but once you pass lvl 10-12 i personally think that the other enchancements are wasted.

WeaselKing
01-30-2009, 02:35 PM
Best battlebard evah!! Bump.

Kreaper
01-31-2009, 08:10 AM
So, how is this build doing in the refuge?

Blind_Skwerl
01-31-2009, 02:13 PM
To be honest, my warforged chanter doesn't see a ton of action these days. I still run him through raids, but his squishiness is really tough to overcome for regular playing.

miceelf88
01-31-2009, 02:53 PM
I still use mine. But then I switched out music of the makers and a couple of other enhancements for upping the old hp with racial toughness and con. And I was lucky enough to find a con tome. So my hp are now somewhat reasonable, and in a pinch I can keep myself up, if the mass heals they're throwing on the main dps don't hit me somehow.

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
03-10-2009, 07:40 AM
To be honest, my warforged chanter doesn't see a ton of action these days. I still run him through raids, but his squishiness is really tough to overcome for regular playing.

Yeah, I hate to say it, but I deleted mine as well. He was very squishy, couldnt fight, couldnt heal. He basically buffed, then proceeded to get his arse kicked, badly. This build looked fantastic on paper, but I could never get him to be even remotely effective.

It was a good try though...

Elenos
03-01-2010, 05:39 PM
Ok, so I brought this thread back from the grave (maybe I shouldn't have) but I just wanted to have an update on your opinion of it

miceelf88
03-04-2010, 09:09 AM
Me too!!! You still play it? what are your thoughts? Any modifications?

Also, as my guy is now approaching true reincarnate- any thoughts on what class to put in the middle (i.e., start with him, then reincarnate as what before I come back to warforgedchanter for the final time)?

What past life feats would be best, in other words?

barbarian for the hp? straight bard for more songs? fvs for more sp? monk for damage?