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Dr.Zer0
07-29-2007, 03:10 PM
I have a cleric (first character). So far it's a fun game. Question: I see the Diplomacy power, but am not certain how it works or when to use it. If I'm in a group and we fight a big mob of creatures, will diplomacy prevent creatures from attacking me?

Sensei
07-29-2007, 03:22 PM
Yep, if you use it and you have success. Click it when you pick up agro. Sometimes it doesnt work, so you might want to run while your at it :D

Symar-FangofLloth
07-29-2007, 03:38 PM
Not everything can be affected by diplomacy. Mostly spiders and animals that aren't. But yeah, if you get aggro use it and they'll break off of you for at least 6 seconds.

Sojourner
07-29-2007, 04:50 PM
It's also one that you don't see a lot of clerics take. Cleric's don't get a lot of skill points, and usually don't put their INT high enough to get many more.

Diplo a good skill, but for a cleric I'd probably rate their skill list as:


Concentration - Need to be able to cast spells even when mobs are wailing on you
Heal - Saves mana by letting shrines heal teammates for more
Balance - If you get knocked off your feet, helps you get back up quicker
Jump - Useful at low levels, not so much at higher levels when people start carying the spells

transtemporal
07-30-2007, 03:22 AM
I've got a similar question about diplomacy. I'm a lvl 8 zorcheror and at lower levels I tried to use diplomacy (ranked 8-15 with an item + eagles splendor) but it didn't seem to work so I stopped ranking it. Basically, I'd cast then hit diplo, cast-diplo, cast-diplo etc. Eventually I stopped bothering because the mobs went after me no matter what I did. Was I dealing out too much damage to overcome the aggro? Does anyone know the actual DC to succeed at diplomacy?

Hvymetal
07-30-2007, 03:32 AM
I've got a similar question about diplomacy. I'm a lvl 8 zorcheror and at lower levels I tried to use diplomacy (ranked 8-15 with an item + eagles splendor) but it didn't seem to work so I stopped ranking it. Basically, I'd cast then hit diplo, cast-diplo, cast-diplo etc. Eventually I stopped bothering because the mobs went after me no matter what I did. Was I dealing out too much damage to overcome the aggro? Does anyone know the actual DC to succeed at diplomacy?
The actual DC varies from critter to critter I do believe, I am not sure what they are rolling against, in P&P isn't it Dip vrs. Dip? Not sure at work and books are no where near. It does not always work and as far as I have been able to tell there is no always works skill level. Also note, you roll against each creature, not all creatures are affected by your same roll by clicking it, check your combat log, thats why sometimes you'll affect a few critters but not others in a group.

Hmm checked SRD, and really I don't know how they applied it to DDO actually.

transtemporal
07-30-2007, 03:44 AM
The actual DC varies from critter to critter I do believe, I am not sure what they are rolling against, in P&P isn't it Dip vrs. Dip? Not sure at work and books are no where near. It does not always work and as far as I have been able to tell there is no always works skill level. Also note, you roll against each creature, not all creatures are affected by your same roll by clicking it, check your combat log, thats why sometimes you'll affect a few critters but not others in a group.

Hmm checked SRD, and really I don't know how they applied it to DDO actually.

Good point, forgot about the SRD. The PnP rules don't really lend themselves to DDO but if we assume that an aggroed creature has an "hostile" initial attitude, that means you'd have to be rolling at least 25 to change its attitude to "indifferent" towards you (which basically means it doesn't much care for you, but won't go out of its way to attack you either).

That's pretty high, even assuming the DC doesn't scale with the damage. No wonder it wasn't working!

Hvymetal
07-30-2007, 04:12 AM
Good point, forgot about the SRD. The PnP rules don't really lend themselves to DDO but if we assume that an aggroed creature has an "hostile" initial attitude, that means you'd have to be rolling at least 25 to change its attitude to "indifferent" towards you (which basically means it doesn't much care for you, but won't go out of its way to attack you either).

That's pretty high, even assuming the DC doesn't scale with the damage. No wonder it wasn't working!

Might be, one of my rogues has a diplomacy in the low to mid 20's and it's still not 100% effective, there may be a few more factors at work that we are not seeing. But the Dip combined with fearsome armor makes sure I am not a grease spot or a stone in a clerics backpack when I make a mistake;)

transtemporal
07-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Might be, one of my rogues has a diplomacy in the low to mid 20's and it's still not 100% effective, there may be a few more factors at work that we are not seeing. But the Dip combined with fearsome armor makes sure I am not a grease spot or a stone in a clerics backpack when I make a mistake;)

Interesting. Thanks Hvymetal. :-)

Kindoki
07-30-2007, 05:40 PM
Might be, one of my rogues has a diplomacy in the low to mid 20's and it's still not 100% effective, there may be a few more factors at work that we are not seeing. But the Dip combined with fearsome armor makes sure I am not a grease spot or a stone in a clerics backpack when I make a mistake;)


Fearsome armor is definitely the way to go over diplomacy, but as a cleric with a 22 int, I have seen diplomacy work - but not often enough to rely on it.

Sensei
07-30-2007, 06:00 PM
wow 22? Just curious, what are your other stats on that guy?

Missing_Minds
07-31-2007, 09:03 AM
I've got a similar question about diplomacy. I'm a lvl 8 zorcheror and at lower levels I tried to use diplomacy (ranked 8-15 with an item + eagles splendor) but it didn't seem to work so I stopped ranking it. Basically, I'd cast then hit diplo, cast-diplo, cast-diplo etc. Eventually I stopped bothering because the mobs went after me no matter what I did. Was I dealing out too much damage to overcome the aggro? Does anyone know the actual DC to succeed at diplomacy?

One thing to note right now. In one of the last patches they screwed up the AI pre determined action que AGAIN. Diplomacy will work if you activate it and RUN. The AI has qued up about 2 or 3 more attacks on your character AFTER you hit diplo. It is not the instant agro turn off effect that the game should (and did for a while) treat it.

It should act (in this game) as

NPC: You meat!
PC: *diplo sucesses!*
NPC: I wrong, leave you now. Hey, you ranger, you meat!

But instead it acts like this now.

NPC: You Meat!
PC: *Diplo sucessess!*
NPC: *bites chunk out of PC*
NPC: *bites more chunk out of PC*
NPC: *bites one more chunk out of PC to be certain PC is tastey*
PC: *nearly dead and whimpers, pulling out steak sauce for NPC to use on him to end the pain*
NPC: You not taste good... where good meat?

Soo..

for right now you best solution once agro is gained is to hit diplo, but then run like a chicken and not blast again still the hind quarters of their fluffy little butts are showing.

Kindoki
07-31-2007, 09:22 PM
wow 22? Just curious, what are your other stats on that guy?


Hmmm...I can't log in at the moment but I believe I am

Str 14 (10 + 4 item)
Con 14 (10 + 4 item)
Dex 14 (10 + 4 item)
Int 22 (16 + 5 item + 1 human)
Wis 26 (16 + 5 item + 3 enh + 1 human + 1 tome)
Cha 18 (10 + 4 item + 2 enh + 2 tome)

For some reason, I am sure my wisdom is at a 28, but I cannot for the life of me remember how. I will have to figure it out when I get the client loading again...

transtemporal
08-01-2007, 12:13 AM
One thing to note right now. In one of the last patches they screwed up the AI pre determined action que AGAIN. Diplomacy will work if you activate it and RUN. The AI has qued up about 2 or 3 more attacks on your character AFTER you hit diplo. It is not the instant agro turn off effect that the game should (and did for a while) treat it.

Thats interesting MM, is that tested and confirmed? That doesn't sound too crazy if I understand it correctly.

Sorc: *casts fireball on bunch of 5 kobolds*
Aggro system: compares aggro of any other toons currently engaged with the kobolds with aggro generated from fireball. If the aggro from fireball is less than generated from other toons, engage other toons. If the aggro from fireball is greater, start queueing attacks on the sorc. *aggro from fireball is greater so queues 5 attacks*
Kobold 1, 2 & 3: Yark yark! *makes attack at sorc*
Kobolds 4 & 5: *move to attack sorc*
Sorc: *diplo success*
Aggro system: If diplo = success, redirect aggro at next toon in aggro list.
Kobolds: *stop attacking sorc and move to attack cleric*

Or are you saying that those 5 kobolds would continue attacking the sorcerer regardless of the diplo success, and its only kobolds that hadn't been queued yet that would be affected? If so, I'd have to be hitting diplo a millisecond after I dropped the fireball! How could I be faster than the aggro routine?

Missing_Minds
08-01-2007, 07:22 AM
Or are you saying that those 5 kobolds would continue attacking the sorcerer regardless of the diplo success, and its only kobolds that hadn't been queued yet that would be affected? If so, I'd have to be hitting diplo a millisecond after I dropped the fireball! How could I be faster than the aggro routine?

The scenerio you created is what SHOULD be happening. However, it is not. The kobolds will continue to attack your sorc until the attacks on the sorcs in the que are finished. At which point they'll go for the next target.

The only way to get agro off you faster that I know of... death? (saddly, not joking.)

And yeap, tested and NOT approved. :( Diplo seems to be going back and forth to working correctly to getting screwed up with this new AI and every change they release.

OKCRandy1
08-02-2007, 02:37 PM
It's also one that you don't see a lot of clerics take. Cleric's don't get a lot of skill points, and usually don't put their INT high enough to get many more.

Diplo a good skill, but for a cleric I'd probably rate their skill list as:


Concentration - Need to be able to cast spells even when mobs are wailing on you
Heal - Saves mana by letting shrines heal teammates for more
Balance - If you get knocked off your feet, helps you get back up quicker
Jump - Useful at low levels, not so much at higher levels when people start carying the spells


/agree, my preferred order of preference

transtemporal
08-02-2007, 04:45 PM
The scenerio you created is what SHOULD be happening. However, it is not. The kobolds will continue to attack your sorc until the attacks on the sorcs in the que are finished. At which point they'll go for the next target.

The only way to get agro off you faster that I know of... death? (saddly, not joking.)

And yeap, tested and NOT approved. :( Diplo seems to be going back and forth to working correctly to getting screwed up with this new AI and every change they release.

Yikes, thanks man. Might do a bit of testing of my own tomorrow and see what happens. Assuming of course, I still have my character after the server merge. :)