View Full Version : Reward Piety

07-29-2007, 02:22 PM
With the enormous costs of keeping a cleric in wands and scrolls, it would be nice if they had their own resource; much like the portable hole; where they could get those items at a reduced rate. As we are out doing the good works of our faith, some support from those we serve isn't an unreasonable request. Often we perform acts of great charity when you consider the cost of ministering to an adventure team, questing party, or raid. (The loot vs cost often isn't close)

Have word of recall allow us to reach a Citadel or Monastery. How many of those that could carry the spell do so? The Temple of The Sovereign Host is nice, but not that nice.

Have the monks or provisioner's at the Citadel accept donations for the goods that don't have merchant mark-up. Even bind the items if the gods are concerned a cleric may be tempted to profit/resale and fall from grace.

A walk up door or improved recall to allow friars, templars, and acolytes access would be a plus too.

Haggle or piety could be including in determining the donation. Not sure about the application of piety, a level 14 should be able to donate more than a level one, but at the same time the 14 has shown the commitment to be granted more favor with the cause. Perhaps a donation/tithe box at the Citadel is a solution.

Happy to heal, just wish it didn't hurt so much.

Lets put an end to Cleric fatigue in our lifetime.

07-30-2007, 12:25 AM
Well part of the reason i believe most cleric are poor is becouse their burn scrolls and wands in quest that they just shouldnt be. I mean i ran POp a few time without a cleric and we did fine, even ran it a a 4 man, had a few death but we beat it. SO i laugh when i hear a cleric crying about how poor they are then see them burning rezz and heal scrolls in PoP when they have 75% of their mana.

The really problem is that scrolls and wand have lead most people to the think that their cleric can still heal even after their out of mana. So they zerg and use brute force to over come the problem instead of tatics. Cause it expected for the cleric to carry wands, rezz and heal scrolls at all time.

While a caster is not expected to carry the same stuff

While the rest of the party is not expected to carry cure poison / less restore / remove blindness / remove curse / remove disease pots.

I mean ever time a cleric cast a remove curse or blindness that sp that could of gone towards a heal. Personally the only time a cleric should use scrolls or wands is on Raids, and a few quest on elite setting.

In fact i know a few cleric that are not broke all the time and it cause they use there mana 1st and scrolls and wand as a last resort,

07-30-2007, 12:40 AM
While the rest of the party is not expected to carry cure poison / less restore / remove blindness / remove curse / remove disease pots.

This can be FIXED, clerics we must form a united front, the answer to a request to any of the above spells is and must always be...


07-30-2007, 01:00 AM
yes, a well run group is best, but heavy buffing can cost a fair amount of manna before you begin. manna often can't outlast "eager" team mates, so then you've got to decide whether to let them perish and how that effects everybody else's survival.

There are also missions reaver, dragon scales, titan, for instance that often use a lot of wands and scrolls, or because of cleric fatigue, are understaffed.

Clerics can't DV themselves, so you must balance your manna, and other items for best success. That means sometimes using wands, to have the manna for other casting.

I love it if a Wiz, Sorc, or other caster carries buffs, but too often they don't.

Personally I donate to clerics in my parties to offset the cost, and try to use good tactics. My non cleric casters can and do buff, my wizard heals WF's so the cleric only need to apply restorative spells, or emergency transfusion. But when I play my cleric I find that is not always the case.

I don't flake out and quit, or refuse to heal either, sometimes the long haul is costly. Thats why the good healers are going dormant, we're the crutch, not the scrolls. Mission success often depends on us.

We spread the love, just need some back.

PS - am I the only one who thinks the cleric loot tables blow chunks?

07-30-2007, 01:32 AM
Lots of good points already made, I'll just try and summarize.

Players spend more then they have to in order to accomplish the same victory every time. Accomidating the zeal of over-used game mechanics spawns boredom. Simple I think. Heh my grandma always said, 'If the fork is more expensive then the cake you shouldn't eat with it.'


07-30-2007, 01:40 AM
I play my cleric often but it's getting to the point where I mostly group my guildies whom I trust to play sensibly and help me out so I'm not just a walking healbot. I hate teammates who run ahead of everyone, taking unnecessary damage while fighting solo, just for everyone to catch up and me to throw heals on him/her to save their sorry butt.
In my guild I can rely on most players to be pretty self-reliant, especially with pots for the simple things like some restore, and various remove curse, blindness, etc. Sometimes someone forgets to restock before a quest or runs out during, and that's ok- I manage my mana well, and keep plenty of wands in reserve. Plus like I said, my guildmates are pretty self-reliant and really just need me to cover their butts in tough battles, where they can't break away and drink pots, whip wands, etc. But after battles everyone is ready to chip in with healing and restoring strengths.
It kills me to see Rangers and Paladins in groups without even a single cure wand, or ones who just heal themselves and don't help out at all. I guess I've just played so long as a cleric that even when I play my Ranger, pally, or even high UMD rogue I sometimes disengage from battle enough to toss some heals around, and not just on myself.
And it is true that players get sloppy. I've run many quests without clerics, and with a little patience and thought, we managed to defeat the MOBS with few problems. Even been in quests where the cleric bailed and we just slowed down and won with no casualties.
But it is expensive to run a cleric and if people keep inviting me into their groups it would be nice to get some assistance, either with buffs, self-healing, or donations. Otherwise I'll just play my Pally and take care of myself (and the cleric.)

07-30-2007, 02:21 AM
Having a cleric main really has made me a more 'aware' player with my roster overall. I think until I was invited to the guild, I maybe had 5k of plat at the extreme most. I was spending like mad on wands because I was pulling the bottom end of the barrel when it came to pugs.

I still remember my first all guild grouping. I actually winced as they tore ahead with me running catchup and they started taking damage. Then they started self and backup healing. I was in shock since to me at that time, it was a rarity.

My cleric main's still not wealthy by any standards, but she's doing far better than she used to.

At this point, I ensure that my bard's packing wands for backup healing, ensure my fighter's packing plenty of cure and remove pots, and my wiz carries plenty of cure pots and repair wands. And with all, I always kick over what I can in coin to the cleric.

It still amazes me how often I'll be in a group with one of my non-clerics and have the group's cleric surprised that I'm packing my own and using it.

And for the record, if I used the language to appropriately describe how I feel about the cleric loot tables, it'd probably be the most infraction points given out for just one post.

07-31-2007, 07:37 PM
Glad to here I'm not the only one who thinks cleric loot isn't divine. I've offered to blind trade fighters their, chest haul for mine, for an entire mission, they always decline. I still heal them though.

07-31-2007, 08:24 PM
i pull the absolute worst loot on my cleric.

my cleric isn't broke because my main (a bard) isn't broke and she uses as many supplies as my cleric does. but i used to be broke so i know what it's like. but my cleric is happy to spam heal scrolls and wands for two main reasons. 1) i like to use a lot of my mana on destruction. it's fun. 2) i want to do that quest as FAST as elvenly possible. so run, jump, swim and kill. i'll keep you alive.

and while yes i do expect everyone who has a lvl 14 to have every toon at all times stocked on lesser resto/poison/curse/disease/fear/and cure pots, i'm *always always always* happy to give out whatever remedy they need. i am the cleric aferall.

07-31-2007, 08:38 PM
you mean destruction right?

anyways bards uses loads of scrolls too why cant we get a lil hut on the hill too? point taken............

clerics dug themselves into this mess now learn to get yourself out, clerics all of a sudden became healbots, so people expect the given to still be giving.............

07-31-2007, 09:12 PM
Bards are welcome, and I have seen several burning raise or res scrolls, to get me back up. Bards acting as buyers are why I'm often just poor and not broke.

My thought for a Citadel, like the Portable Hole, would allow bards entry, the music would help the clerical chantings.

08-01-2007, 10:47 AM
yes i did mean destruction.

yeah bards are handy for hagglebots. i save a lot of money by doing 99% of all my buying/selling on my 42 haggle bard, and all of my bulk buying i have friends with 50 haggle's. i can inspire competence them up to 52 and save even more money. when you're buying 300 rais dead scrolls at a time it comes in hand. just find a bard willing to click a lot for you. i would be. hell, half the time i spend on this game is just sitting around in taverns or in the house of wizardry talking to friends while i buff up ppl's haggle.