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dwm
07-27-2007, 01:47 PM
Hi all,

I am somewhat a newbie, my main is a lvl 7 dual-wield ranger, and I have just unlocked the drow. I would like to make a battle cleric to feed my inner healer, but need some advice on how best to do it.

I enjoy meleeing, but sometimes get tired of the constant action. I would like to be able to occasionally (30-60% of the time, depending on my mood) sit back and heal, but don't want to commit to the sole activity of healing. I don't think I can manage the responsibility of multitasking of healing while I am meleeing, but hope to be capable at some point.

I have read several posts re: battle clerics, but seem to find those that discuss endgame info of which most I am unaware / not experienced with (i.e., tomes, etc).

Would any generous soul please give me some detailed descriptions of stat, skill and feat selections through these first few levels to get me on my feet and develop a solid battle cleric I can run with?

Thanks in advance for all your help...

juniorpfactors
07-27-2007, 01:53 PM
problem is drow is not really suited for cleric class.... really human or dwarf is best for high hp(dwarf) or human for extra feats...so i would advise build one and get him to 1750 then redo it as a 32 pointer down the road...nice thing about cleric is you will get favor fast...options are 13-1, or 12-2....13-1 options lets you cast 7th lvl spells...i would take fighter lvl at 2 if you plan to start getting into battle early on..and go cleric from there on out

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=109202

here is my melee human 32 point build ... this is wont give you many dvs but its lots of fun to play...as a drow you could get a lot of dvs

Borror0
07-27-2007, 02:10 PM
I agree with Jrp, Drows make poor Battle Cleric. Thier Cha bonus is not bas for a healbot (more DVs) but for a Battle cleric, worthless. Dwarves and Human makes the best Battle Cleric, by far.

blakbyrd
07-27-2007, 02:19 PM
Well, I cannot offer much advice on how to build a battle cleric, but I will point out a few things about it and in regards to some things you mentioned in your original post.

I expect that if you have read other posts on the forums about battle clerics, that you will understand that they are not a commonly well viewed build in the game. There is alot of near hatred for them, and in some circles can cause you to get blacklisted from ever grouping with some people. Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate this kind og behaviour against other players but it does happen, and battle clerics get a fair amount of it.

Secondly, the idea of simply sitting back ever now and then and healing is not exactly a relaxing job. In fact, at times the cleric can become the busiest member of the group, rushing as fast as you can to target the right person, cast, use scroll or wand, determining with little time to think who is going to go down the quickest, preparing the heals in advance. Shuffling between heals and debuff removals, when can you rez the fallen player the quickest and safest, watching health bars like a hawk at times and being unable to actually watch what is barreling down at you, recognizing voices with certain players so you do have to ask "who needed the restore?". Knowing when party members are out of sight so you arent casting heals on yourself instead of on others who need it as well, etc etc. It is a very hectic job at times.

As being a battle cleric there are also 2 main forms of them. The worst viewed are those how are really just fighters. Those who do not heal others, and in many cases I have seen they dont even heal themselves, instead prefering to just die in battle with full mana, rather than stopping to heal themself, or crying out for heals from someone else. The other is the type who generally prefer to fight, but will (when needed, not just when they feel like it) will stand back and help heal for the benefit of the party. Either one can lead you to a stereotypical role later on the more you do it, so be careful and know how you want your battle cleric to be.

It is a common default assumption that as a cleric, you will heal. If you are a battle cleric, people will take more kindly to you if you make that point known from that start (either letting them know or state it in your bio...something). Just understand that when people are looking for a cleric, they generally aren't looking for a fighter, and they can get quite upset if they find out when its too late that you aren't an intended group healer.

So in short, just understand that battle clerics are often looked down upon, but you can still be a great player and benefit. Your own attitude while playing, and ability to play it well, make all the difference. Battle clerics will need to be able to roll with the punches that come your way without losing your composure, as you will eventually start getting complaints about being one, and some players will be upset about it. Just roll with it and don't give in to their angry comments.

Best of luck to you in trying it out, just be prepared to take some heat.

Impaqt
07-27-2007, 02:20 PM
Theres no reason a Drow cant make a decent battle Cleric.... As a Matter of fact, if you stick to Rapiers and Shortswords, you can go pure Cleric even....

14 base STR gets you to 20 WIth Divine Favor

14 BAB
5 20 STR
2 Drow SS/Rapier Enh
3 +3 Weapon
---
+24 First Swing with just Divine Power....
3 Divine Favor
4 Greater Heroism
1 Haste
---
+32 First Swing with Standard Buffs....

Add Rage, Bard Songs, to get even higher.

14,10,12,10,18,10 Starting Stats.
20 Heroic Durability
112 L14 Cleric
42 16 CON
10 Dragonic Vitality
30 Greater False Life
----
214 Hit Points

Thats with a +4 ITem and GFL... If ya gotta stick with Improved FL, your still over 200. WHich is FIne for a cleric who likes to swing a sword every now and then.

Missing_Minds
07-27-2007, 02:24 PM
drow not a bases for a battle cleric... *smirk*
ANY race can be a battle cleric. However, some races are better suited for different aspects compared to others.

So the questions to answer is, do you want immunities? Do you want to beat down stuff? Do you care about the other players as much as your own fun? Do you want a high sucess rate with your spells? Do you plan on multi classing? (if so, with what?) Are their any feats that you must have? Are there any weapons that you depseratly want to use?

DDO combat is different from other games I've been told, so you may have not yet learned just what your true play style is. Because of this I'm hesitant to really give/tell you what to do.

STR will help you to hit (which you need in this game) but as a cleric with a high Will you'll eventually get divine power so you can make up for this to a degree. Con means hit point and spell casting concentration (always a good thing) but if you play your character smart HP won't be a huge concern. (I.E. dark elf fighter, con of 12, trioing stuff with a theif and bard back when level 10 was the cap and we completed most everything. And no, we did not have any raid loot (still don't) and uber equipment? we could only dream, as there was no AH either.)

Op, if you know what race you'd really like to try, we can start working there.

sigtrent
07-27-2007, 02:24 PM
Sure, here are the battle cleric ABCs

A: A battle cleric is defined by making sure your cleric has decent melee capeabilities. There are lots of ways to do this, but the #1 way is to give yourself a decent starting STR score. The #2 way to do this is to get a better weapon selection (usualy by taking a level in a combat class).

B: The only skill most battle clerics care about is Concentration.

C: A battle cleric derives their power primarily from buffing. Clerics have a wide range of good buffs they can apply to everyone, and a few really good ones they can only cast on themselves.

Race
So you want to play a Drow. Perhaps not the optimal race for a BC but not a bad choice either. I have a Drow Cleric and while not a true battle cleric, she is almost one and fights pretty decently. I'll assume drow (although Dwarf,Human,Elf all have some advantages).

Stats
Stats (28 pts)
Str: 16 (10 pts)
Dex: 10 (0 pts)
Con: 12 (6 pts)
Wis: 16 (10 pts) <add level up points to wisdom>
Int: 10 (0 pts)
Cha: 12 (2 pts)

On the down side you arn't really taking much advantage of your racial stat bonuses, but niether are you especialy hurt by them. Your only real problem here is that your con isn't as high as you might like it to be.

As you level, emphasize your wisdom. Clerics have some great offensive spells, and Wis will help them work more often and let you use them more. Landing a hold or a command is a lot more powerful than one or two points of strength bonus.

Alignment
Neutral Good is about the best, but Lawful Good and Chaotic Good are fine.

Feats
Extend Spell should be your first choice at level 1

At level 3 I'd take Empower Healing (this is actualy good for a fighting cleric, its a wash mana wise, but you want single large heals instead of many smaller ones, this lets you spend less time casting and still be effective)

At level 6 I'd go for Weapon Focus Piercing (I'll get into why in equipment)

At level 9 I'd look at Mental Toughness or Spell Penetration.. something for your casting side.

At level 12 you want Improved Critical Piercing to up your damage potential.

Enhancements
Because you can re-spec these quite easily you don't need to wory too much about them yet. Play around and see what you like.

I recomend upping your healing spell casting, (but not taking the crits, not very handy for healing), taking the Drow Melle lines to help your combat. Taking a bit of spell penetration at higher levels. Take one of the Turning lines (DV or DH or whatever you like). Take Extra Wis and possibly Dex.

I also reccomend you re-spec every two levels or so to shift things around. Some enhancements are great at low level and some are more usefull at high level. And also you can often spend them more effieciently re-specing than you can if you just buy them up as you level.

Multi-Classing
Stay pure class until you get to level 12 (getting you the spell Heal). At that point, if you might want a level of paladin. It will net you a tiny bit of extra spell points and a boost to AC and saves, and eventualy you can get a very nice saving throw bonus (although I'd only take a second paladin level around 19 or 20.) This is totaly optional and not a big deal. (Note you need to be Lawful Good to do this!)

How to play
Your mana is a bit limited so try to use wands for between fight healing and for some of your buffs. Don't just buff everything all the time. Learn what is usefull when and if you really need it. Over buffing just wastes mana, but so does under bufffing. Divine Might and Divine Power are your two super buffs, especialy Divine Might. These are what make you a potentialy powerful combat character for the most part. Divine Might is a combat clerics bestest friend!

In groups, fight most of the time, but pull back for the bigger battles and focus a bit more on healing if its needed. You can often get an idea for how strong the group is and when they need you to heal more than fight. Try to be flexible. Remember you arn't all that tough. Use your CC spells to yoru advantage and let a tougher tank take the initial agro most of the time. Fearsome armor will be awesome for you at higher levels, limiting the number of creatures beating on you at one time.

Equipment
Rapiers are your weapon. You will use them whenever you can because of racial bonuses and because its a great weapon in general. You may also have a few heavy maces for fighting skelletons and the like.

Wear Full Plate (mithral at higher levels if you can get it) and a large shield. Get a good Devotion or Potency item. Buff your Wis, Str, Con. Dex and Cha are pretty secondary.

Skills
Take Healing and Concentration. Healing isn't super great but its handy at low level and there really isn't much else that will help you skill wise that you could actualy level up to a decent ammount.

Dkmafia
07-27-2007, 02:27 PM
Hi all,

I am somewhat a newbie, my main is a lvl 7 dual-wield ranger, and I have just unlocked the drow. I would like to make a battle cleric to feed my inner healer, but need some advice on how best to do it.

I enjoy meleeing, but sometimes get tired of the constant action. I would like to be able to occasionally (30-60% of the time, depending on my mood) sit back and heal, but don't want to commit to the sole activity of healing. I don't think I can manage the responsibility of multitasking of healing while I am meleeing, but hope to be capable at some point.

I have read several posts re: battle clerics, but seem to find those that discuss endgame info of which most I am unaware / not experienced with (i.e., tomes, etc).

Would any generous soul please give me some detailed descriptions of stat, skill and feat selections through these first few levels to get me on my feet and develop a solid battle cleric I can run with?

Thanks in advance for all your help...

I have 2 clerics, one of heal focused, the other is my opinion of a battle cleric. The heal focused, when in a pinch, uses divine favor and divine power (extended) and can fight a little when he has to. The other is built like a straight caster. I have heighten spell, a regular spell focus and greater focus in another school.

It really depends on what you want to see that char do. Cleric spells are godlike (no pun intended). Poison, comet fall, greater command, etc.. Not to mention some minor gear and stat changes and either of my clerics can do ok in melle.

I think to multi-class a cleric is foolish (well minor mutli-classing like 13/1 - 12/2 etc..). Sure with 1 level of fighter you get more weapon pro's but for what? To get a 19-20 crit range instead of the 20 on heavy mace? The mana you give up even for that one level can do more dmg then that weapon proficiency on average throughout a quest.

If I remember right my cleric with a base of 12str. Has a +24ish to hit and does about 30dmg a hit with divine's up. Thats not bad considering the only weapon I carry is a +1 cursespewer. I am sure is I combat spec'd him he could easily double that. That would be respectable damage.

sigtrent
07-27-2007, 02:28 PM
I agree with Jrp, Drows make poor Battle Cleric. Thier Cha bonus is not bas for a healbot (more DVs) but for a Battle cleric, worthless. Dwarves and Human makes the best Battle Cleric, by far.

Well, they arn't ideal, but they are actualy pretty good and here is why...

You get Rapiers as a free proficiency and an enhancement line to up their damage and attack. As a bonus you need invest no points in Dex to target optimal dex for Mithral Full plate. Finaly the cha bonus lets you not invest but still be able to get a workable charisma for DV or DH if you like.

The only real down side is the low con, and it is an issue to be sure. But you can pretty much full heal yourself at the drop of a hat so it isn't as bad as a non healing character wtih marginal HP.

32pt Dwarves are definately pretty optimal for BC, and Humans and Elves have some selling points as well.

juniorpfactors
07-27-2007, 02:34 PM
extend can wait till lvl6...there is nothing to extend till then of much value...on the other hand mental toughness at lvl1 gives you spell points which you need more of...so i would take MT and EHealing asap...all these ideas work..but for me I wouldnt waist a feat on weapon focus(+1 to hit)...a Str based human can easily obtain a 26-30 str and by lvl 6 str of at least 22-24...you may want heiten or maximize at 12 to put out the damage and land spells...or IMT for even more spell Points for Heals or Destructions :) ...again you will be try a drow so Con of 12 is low and str will suffer at the lower levels...but you can ignore me if you want I dont play finesse builds

Impaqt
07-27-2007, 02:56 PM
extend can wait till lvl6...there is nothing to extend till then of much value...on the other hand mental toughness at lvl1 gives you spell points which you need more of...so i would take MT and EHealing asap...all these ideas work..but for me I wouldnt waist a feat on weapon focus(+1 to hit)...a Str based human can easily obtain a 26-30 str and by lvl 6 str of at least 22-24...you may want heiten or maximize at 12 to put out the damage and land spells...or IMT for even more spell Points for Heals or Destructions :) ...again you will be try a drow so Con of 12 is low and str will suffer at the lower levels...but you can ignore me if you want I dont play finesse builds

Mental TOughness at L1 Gives you 10 Spell Points...... Hardly WOrth it... THrough L5, you get 25 Spell Points total.....

Extend onthe other hand....

Bless. Probobly the single most usefull spell for levels 1-6. It should be up constantly. THis can save you 20-50 Spell Points per quest for levels 1-3 easily.

Now, THats a Party Buff, But a Battle Cleric is gonna use a few more spells that benefit from Extend...

Nightsheild
Divine Favor
Command

Add up the saving and you'l see Extend is MUCH more mana efficient than the few spell points Mental Toughness gives ya at early Levels.

At L3, you get Eagle Splendor, Owls Wisdom and Resist energy.... All Need to be extended to be effective and sae mana....

I dont sugest MT until l6 Minimum. At l6, Extend becomes much less useful for Buffs.... andby l10, I suggest turning it off except for self melee Buffs (Divine Favor, Divine Power)

I agree Weapon Focus is a Waste.... +1 Isnt gonna mean much.

ANd FInesse builds have nithing to do with what we are talking about there.. THe Majority of Battle clerics are TYpicl STR Based for melee..... Divine Power is a STR Enhancment.. HTere no DIvine Finesse enhancemnet.

Borror0
07-27-2007, 06:10 PM
Well, they arn't ideal, but they are actualy pretty good and here is why...

You get Rapiers as a free proficiency and an enhancement line to up their damage and attack. As a bonus you need invest no points in Dex to target optimal dex for Mithral Full plate. Finaly the cha bonus lets you not invest but still be able to get a workable charisma for DV or DH if you like.

The only real down side is the low con, and it is an issue to be sure. But you can pretty much full heal yourself at the drop of a hat so it isn't as bad as a non healing character wtih marginal HP.

32pt Dwarves are definately pretty optimal for BC, and Humans and Elves have some selling points as well.

Sure Drows can do some decent BC, but others are even better at it, except Halflings (who REALLY need more love). The Cha bonus is.. OK as most BC don't even take DV or DH. Most BC don't even bother to try to get decent AC anymore and, like you said Con is lacking.

Now, I'm not saying a Drow Battle Cleric is gimped and should not be created, I'm simply saying they are not the optimal race. Anyway, Drows look horrible, it took me over 30 minutes at creation to find something I could live with. I'm trying to avoid playing female characters, so Drows are ugly. :p Now, dwarves look cool!:p

Gimpster
07-27-2007, 07:55 PM
Now, I'm not saying a Drow Battle Cleric is gimped and should not be created, I'm simply saying they are not the optimal race.
Elf/drow are the best pure-cleric battleclerics, as they get martial weapons for free, along with enhancements to boost those weapons. But a 32-point elf is better than a drow, which is only slightly better than a 28 point elf.

Borror0
07-27-2007, 11:01 PM
Elf/drow are the best pure-cleric battleclerics, as they get martial weapons for free, along with enhancements to boost those weapons. But a 32-point elf is better than a drow, which is only slightly better than a 28 point elf.

I'm not saying a Drow Battle Cleric is gimped and should not be created, I'm simply saying they are not the optimal race.

Impaqt
07-27-2007, 11:06 PM
I'm not saying a Drow Battle Cleric is gimped and should not be created, I'm simply saying they are not the optimal race.


If everyone ran the optimal Race Build we'd have nothing but Drow bards,Wizzies, and Sorcs and everythign else would be Dwarf.

Borror0
07-27-2007, 11:27 PM
If everyone ran the optimal Race Build we'd have nothing but Drow bards,Wizzies, and Sorcs and everythign else would be Dwarf.

lol, never said it was a bad thing to play non-optimised characters. IMO humans can do their share as healbot/caster spec'ed clerics but that's an other subject!

Dkmafia
07-29-2007, 05:26 AM
extend can wait till lvl6...there is nothing to extend till then of much value...on the other hand mental toughness at lvl1 gives you spell points which you need more of...so i would take MT and EHealing asap...all these ideas work..but for me I wouldnt waist a feat on weapon focus(+1 to hit)...a Str based human can easily obtain a 26-30 str and by lvl 6 str of at least 22-24...you may want heiten or maximize at 12 to put out the damage and land spells...or IMT for even more spell Points for Heals or Destructions :) ...again you will be try a drow so Con of 12 is low and str will suffer at the lower levels...but you can ignore me if you want I dont play finesse builds

I disagree with the extend also, it is more worth it at lower levels IMO. But the rest is very good advice.

dwm
07-29-2007, 07:00 PM
Wow...thank you all for your thorough discussions and suggestions. I'm going to have to read your posts another 4 times before I absorb it mostly. I can see all of your points as very valid areas of consideration and appreciate the cross-spectrum posts which include the stat/skill specifics, feat/multiclass progression, the "understanding your character's role in a party" aspect and the drow concerns. Thank you all so much for your input...really good info for me in here.

I'm off to read your thoughts another few times, sleep on it and roll him in the morning.

Thanks again,
dwm

Gimpster
07-29-2007, 08:22 PM
I'm not saying a Drow Battle Cleric is gimped and should not be created, I'm simply saying they are not the optimal race.
You said that human/dwarf is better "by far". And that is false: elf is nearly as good in most ways, and superior in other ways. It is NOT clear cut that human is better.

Gimpster
07-29-2007, 08:23 PM
I agree with Jrp, Drows make poor Battle Cleric. Thier Cha bonus is not bas for a healbot (more DVs) but for a Battle cleric, worthless. Dwarves and Human makes the best Battle Cleric, by far.
No. Elf and drow are also quite nice as battleclerics. In particular, if you want to remain a pure cleric 14, then they are better than dwarves and maybe even humans. In that case their racial martial proficiencies come in and is a serious advantage.

Aranticus
07-30-2007, 11:55 PM
i made a new dwarven cleric. she's what i call an offensive cleric (note: not battle). she started off with 14/12/14/10/18/6, a 32 pointer. with a low cha, dv is out of the option. enhancement wise, it'll be focused on healing and smiting series. 2 metamagic feats i'll take will be extend and maximise.

at low level, i melee often and have a decent success in melee-ing due to self buff with bull str and divine favor (btw divine power adds +6 str not favor). tactic is simple. let tank grab agro and round up mobs, chuck a soundburst, kill stunned mobs. on end bosses, she has cleric smiting spells series ie nimbus, searing light. at mid level, the situation will still be the same cept now theres gtr command and holysmite mixed in.

once past L11, the tactics will change. the preferred spells of choice will be blade barrier, cometfall and destruction. when bb is used, the tactic will be to constantly run in and out of the blades. at 200 a touch (with sup pot VI and maxed), monsters dun last too long. destruction is saved for casters and cometfall for toppling mobs over and also to grab agro.

hence the need for a 18 wisdom. this is to ensure a sufficiently high DC for the spell effects to go off. a stun mob is as good as dead. 14 con is for survivability esp when i get agro from the bb or cf.