PDA

View Full Version : Module 5 RAID Boss PLEASE Don't make him SOLO'ABLE LIKE the STORMREAVER!!!



Drith
07-26-2007, 01:13 PM
Hey Turbine. I've made many posts about how much I love this game and how much I love the improvements that you guys have been making to the game so this is positive criticism to help you guys make the game better for everyone.

I think you guys are fully aware of how much you scrwed up on the Storm Reaver but I'm just going to pick that encounter apart as a comparison tool as to what we absolutely do not want to see from the Mod 5 Raid boss so here goes:

The Loot from the Stormreaver is absolute **** AND HE'S SOLO'ABLE !!!

There's level 5 quests out there that are not SOLO'ABLE yet here is the highest level END GAME Boss that can be beaten by a single player consistenly over and over again without even using that many pots or scrolls AND WITHOUT ANY EXPLOITS what so ever.

So my desperate plea to the developers is that in these late stages of Module 5 please take the time to review the difficulty of the raid as well as the drops.

The player base wants these raids to be the most difficult encounters in the game and as such the rewards should be AT THE VERY LEAST be SOMEWHAT usefull.

I'll even be happy if there's 4 out of 12 loots that are HALF DECENT.

There's only 2 half decent loot that comes from the stormreaver and they are the gloves of eternity and the head of good fortune. (maybe the cloak but that's pushing it). Sure + 3 tomes as well but that's not static loot and I can only assume that the new raid boss in MOD 5 will also have a very rare chance of droping + 3 tomes.

Obviously I don't know what is the vision of Turbine for their raid encounters and none of us know for sure what is going on in the heads of the developers but SURELY you are not intentionaly making the highest level raid in the game solo'able. (Again emphasis on NON-Exploiting SOLO'ABLE).

Although with respect to the Stormreaver I truely believe that with his drop rates being such utter **** this at least somewhat justifies a little bit for the fact that the encounter is so utterly easy.


Bottom line:

1) Please please please please make the raid at the very least somewhat difficult with 6 people. Let alone difficult with 12. It is a raid after all and although as we progress and gain better gear, the raids will become easier and easier, I still do not think it makes sense to call them 12 man raids when you can beat them just as fast if not faster with 3 people or even solo in the case of the Stormreaver.

2) Please please please please try to do something with the loot so that 9 times out of 10 both raid loot items do not rott, un-looted in the chest.

Aeneas
07-26-2007, 01:19 PM
I'd be happy if they made it so all classes can participate meaningfully in the raid. Reaver can be done really easily with one tank, and a good caster wand healing him. Rogues, rangers, bards (dancing sphere aside) are mostly marginalized unless you have a high AC build who can tank.

And no, wand healing from the archway until it's puzzle time does not count as meaningful contribution.

Drith
07-26-2007, 01:25 PM
I'm 100 % with ya Aeneas but considering that they are still working on how to make the event more difficult then some of the Level 5 quests (archer's point defense) and give loot that is more worthwhile then what comes out of the Desert chests (Bloodstone) I think you may be asking for way too much.

Besides. Each class can contribute to the group / raid no matter what the event is like. They just contribute in different ways.

Rogues have awesome DPS (a rogues job is to control his/her own agro so they don't need high AC), Bards have awesome buffs that make a huge difference and great spells as well. Every class has his or her place. Making an event that requires a specific task from each and every specific class is well... I dunno... I think the best you're going to get is what they did with Velah. A few + 25 WIS runes or + 25 STR levers. = )

*Edit* Rangers have awesome DPS as well (just like rogues).

I'd also correct you on the whole "Stormreaver needing only 1 tank"

The Stormreaver doesn't even need a tank. You can go in with 1 caster and beat him all by yourself.

bobbryan2
07-26-2007, 01:29 PM
I like that raids are tough at first, and then they can be soloed. Every raid out there can be soloed or duoed, and the Reaver shouldn't be any exception to that.

What you 'really' want is for Turbine to fix the raid loot system so it doesn't reward players for soloing/short manning raids. Right now it's the only way to get a somewhat decent rate of rewards.

If everyone got closer towards their Chattering Ring or Delving Suit with every successful raid, you'd see a whole lot more 10-12 man groups of people just wanting to have fun.

People run raids for fun at the start, but when you run them for loot, you run them with 1-2 people. That's just the way it goes.

So, this raid shouldn't break the motif at all, unless they go back to the drawing board on how to give out items.

Tavok
07-26-2007, 01:29 PM
Agreed. But gimme a break, the Gloves of Eternity are a joke.

Titan is also soloable (if you can get the rez trick to work enough times I suppose TF is soloable also, but it would require getting the trick to work like 20 times).

Gimpster
07-26-2007, 01:32 PM
I'd be happy if they made it so all classes can participate meaningfully in the raid.
All the raids have that problem to an extent. In fact, it's much worse with dragon and titan.

VON Dragon: 10 minutes of 1 player pulling mobs and 1 player rezzing him, then 2 minutes of 1 player slashing Velah and 1 player healing him. You can add in some more hitters at the end, but that's only a minute or two anyhow. Basically a two-man job.

Twilight Forge Titan: 5-15 minutes of everyone shooting pillars. Then 10 minutes of 1 player running crystals, 1 player chopping pillar, and 1 player standing on the laser.

At least in Laliat and Reaver raids, additional players make a roughly proportional assistance in terms of providing DPS or elemental-killing.

JD2134
07-26-2007, 01:33 PM
Agreed. But gimme a break, the Gloves of Eternity are a joke.

Titan is also soloable (if you can get the rez trick to work enough times I suppose TF is soloable also, but it would require getting the trick to work like 20 times).


I fail to see how the titan can be done solo. I doubt anyone is fast enough to take a pillar down and race back to the laser and turn it on in time.

Also there some nice drops in the reaver. The head being one. Also the bracers are nice for rogues as their stackable on the Disable. which means that trap diffculty might be getting harder. The toothpick is nice for caster or even a tank that two handed in blunts. the napkins a nice item for a caster +6 intell and +1 to all spell dc. Treason is nice for anyone the duals wields as it means less melee aggro on them.

Aeneas
07-26-2007, 01:34 PM
I know all classes can be utilized, but to be fair, in the majority of the raids, nuking casters, healbots, and supertanks are the standard LFM fare. DQ is kind of an exception thanks to the reflex save inducing blade barriers, but even they are nullified by spam casting cure moderate wounds.

Aspenor
07-26-2007, 01:36 PM
I fail to see how the titan can be done solo. I doubt anyone is fast enough to take a pillar down and race back to the laser and turn it on in time.

2 words...

ranged weapons

Creadance
07-26-2007, 01:37 PM
I have done the reaver raid many times and I dont think he is so soloable as you say first you have to deal with the antigravity and then you have to deal with all the dang elementals. And then wait for all 9 orbs to be spinning then get flight on 2 characters to get the switches fliped to open the door to get to the puzzle room.
If you think its easy try it on Hard and Elite then. Our guild still uses about 8 on normal and 12 on Hard and Elite.

Biggest problem I have is the lightning striking already spinning orbs we normally have at least 3 to 4 repeats every time.

Aspenor
07-26-2007, 01:38 PM
I have done the reaver raid many times and I dont think he is so soloable as you say

He is.

Drith
07-26-2007, 01:41 PM
Agree 110 % Aeneas.

I think that everyone in the raid would find themselves being much more part of the event or needed if they actually made the events a little more difficult.

More croud control requirements or like you guys said in titan.... 1 person pulls 1 lever while someone else pushes a button and a third chops a rope....

I dunno. And for the love of god fix the loots.

I also dissagree that it was Turbine's intent for the Reaver to be Solo'able. That just doesn't make sense to me. It's a raid that's why we have the option of adding an extra 6 people in the group.... if not then why did they bother letting us add an extra 6 people if all along they figured that we should be able to solo it. *shrug*

But again coming back to the loot. For the love of god please give us something that we'd at the VERY LEAST use SOMETIMES.

Gimpster
07-26-2007, 01:41 PM
What you 'really' want is for Turbine to fix the raid loot system so it doesn't reward players for soloing/short manning raids. Right now it's the only way to get a somewhat decent rate of rewards.

If everyone got closer towards their Chattering Ring or Delving Suit with every successful raid, you'd see a whole lot more 10-12 man groups of people just wanting to have fun.
Actually, what you'd really see is a lot of 2-3 man raids bringing along a 9-10 moochers who come along and don't do anything except grab some of the loot at the end. That isn't very fun.

The reason to want more people in a raid should be so that you have a better chance of winning, not so that you can multiply the loot when you do win.

Drith
07-26-2007, 01:43 PM
On average we run about 10 reaver raids a week. Average size of the group is about 3-5 people.

Only reason we bring more then 3 sometimes is because we have lots of guildmembers who aren't skilled enough to 3 man it and a lot of times it's more fun with 6 then 3 anyway.

There have been many people who have solo'ed it on all servers.

Aspenor
07-26-2007, 01:44 PM
You guys seem to forget an important DDO mechanic....

ALL QUESTS are designed to be completed by a party of 4 level-appropriate characters (per PnP standard operating procedures).

Gimpster
07-26-2007, 01:47 PM
You guys seem to forget an important DDO mechanic....
ALL QUESTS are designed to be completed by a party of 4 level-appropriate characters (per PnP standard operating procedures).
That is a general guideline, but is not entirely true. It emphatically is not true for raids.

If the quest was really intended for groups of 4, then a group 50% larger would be reasonable. But a group 300% larger would be stupid. There is no way the raids can really be meant for 4.

Drith
07-26-2007, 01:49 PM
Oh and we've found that the Stormreaver is easier on Hard then he is on Normal (Because he does reverse gravity a lot less for some reason) and on Elite he's a tiny bit harder but that's only because it takes a little longer to down the elementals.

BUT you raise a very good point. If we want a bigger challenge then we can do it on elite.

BUT there's a major flaw in that.... there's absolutely no reward trade off.

The same absolutely useless loot drops whether it is done on normal or eltie.

If we had a better chance of getting Chattering rings from the Titan on Elite then we did on Normal!! OH MY GOSH that would be the most amazing thing ever and we'd do it on elite with a full party of 12 each and every time instead of splitting up into groups of 3 or 6.

AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME Solution!

Take the Absolutely stupid rare usefull loot (Chattering ring, + 3 tomes, etc...) and make their drops rates go up considerably on elite then compared with Normal.

That would Fix the problem IMO 110 % and is probably Extremely easy to do from a programing perspective.

Roguewiz
07-26-2007, 01:50 PM
Most MMO developers never intend on having a "raid encounter" done solo. Soloing such an encounter is the result of one (or all) of the following:

1. Higher Level than the encounter was originally designed for.
2. Extremely well equiped
3. Good Player
4. Broken Class (IE...not balanced)
5. Bug


To give you an idea, speaking from another game experience, Everquest. At level 60, I could not even make an attempt to solo Zlandicar (Dragon in Dragon Necropolis). 5 Levels later, and 120 AAs, I soloed him without even being taken down to half-life, as a Wizard.

Gear and Levels > designer content. They could circumvent this by re-evaluating all content when levels go up, however, this puts a damper on those that would like to attempt the content at the level/power scale it was originally designed for.

bobbryan2
07-26-2007, 01:50 PM
Actually, what you'd really see is a lot of 2-3 man raids bringing along a 9-10 moochers who come along and don't do anything except grab some of the loot at the end. That isn't very fun.

The reason to want more people in a raid should be so that you have a better chance of winning, not so that you can multiply the loot when you do win.

Well... I actually agree with that, too. You would see a lot more moochers.

But you get moochers with the current raid set up now... except bringing moochers actually hurts your own loot. I'd much rather the moochers get their own pulls than taking mine.

Aspenor
07-26-2007, 01:51 PM
That is a general guideline, but is not entirely true. It emphatically is not true for raids.

If the quest was really intended for groups of 4, then a group 50% larger would be reasonable. But a group 300% larger would be stupid. There is no way the raids can really be meant for 4.

Well sure they are, IMHO. Not necessarily a "normally" equipped party, but they are definitely designed to be completed by an above-average equipped party of 4. I mean, consider all the roles you just outlined....

Dragon: 1 puller, 3 pounders.

Titan: Shooter, Runner, Smasher & Healer

DQ: Healer, DPS

Stormreaver: Healer, Caster (or 2), Tank (or 2, if not 2 casters)

It seems to me that Turbine explicitly created these quests around twinked-out parties of 4.

Drith
07-26-2007, 02:11 PM
Most MMO developers never intend on having a "raid encounter" done solo. Soloing such an encounter is the result of one (or all) of the following:

1. Higher Level than the encounter was originally designed for.
2. Extremely well equiped
3. Good Player
4. Broken Class (IE...not balanced)
5. Bug


To give you an idea, speaking from another game experience, Everquest. At level 60, I could not even make an attempt to solo Zlandicar (Dragon in Dragon Necropolis). 5 Levels later, and 120 AAs, I soloed him without even being taken down to half-life, as a Wizard.

Gear and Levels > designer content. They could circumvent this by re-evaluating all content when levels go up, however, this puts a damper on those that would like to attempt the content at the level/power scale it was originally designed for.



I completely agree. I have no problems with the reaver being solo'able once we're all level 18 but we're not talking about a mob that's solo'able 5 levels later or after the next expansion. We're talking about the hardest, highest level raid boss being solo'able NOW when it is still the highest level raid in the game. You yourself said there was no way you could solo Zlandicar at lvl 60 but at 65 he becomes a joke. However Zlandicar was only a baby boss not the MAIN HIGHEST level boss of the expansion. I'd doubt it if you could solo all of the Temple of Veeshan even at level 70 or 75.....

nbhs275
07-26-2007, 02:57 PM
its sad that the reaver is soloable, though it seems that only a very narrow section of elite players are able to do it. Most of the other raids have some sort of requirement that keeps it from being soloed. The dragon has the pillars, the titan....hell pillars.


But remember, DQ was soloable from the beginning and still is. Yet for a party of players that doesn't have the exact right skills and abilities its still completeable.

Maybe they never thought a wizard would prop himself up in the middle. Or that a ranger could get his AC high enough to survive meleeing the reaver. But if they change the raid because of this, its gunna make alot of problems.

Drith
07-26-2007, 03:23 PM
I don't care so much if they don't fix the mistakes they've made up to now... I just don't want to see the same mistakes being repeated over and over again.

If the MOD 5 Boss ends up being like the Reaver then there's honestly nothing left for my entire guild other then a 1 in 100 chance at a chattering ring twice a week per Toon.

When I say "ends up being like the Reaver" I mean "easy as heck with useless loot"

Beherit_Baphomar
07-26-2007, 03:33 PM
To the OP; The only way you will ever stop these raids being solo'd is to have some sort of mechanism in place that makes it physically impossible to do two things at one time. It doesnt matter how difficult you make the mobs, or the raid, someone will always be able to solo it. Thats human nature and thats what some people like to do.


I'd be happy if they made it so all classes can participate meaningfully in the raid. Reaver can be done really easily with one tank, and a good caster wand healing him. Rogues, rangers, bards (dancing sphere aside) are mostly marginalized unless you have a high AC build who can tank.

And no, wand healing from the archway until it's puzzle time does not count as meaningful contribution.

:-O Imagine more than two or three people being useful in a raid! Wouldn't that be amazing?!?! Personally I love standing in a archway while two other people do everything. /sarcasm off.

Seriously, I dont know who designed that quest, but guys, did you actually run it with 12 of ya? Did you not realise that 10 people were gonna be standing around? Or you did realise that and say "Meh, whatever"?

Beherit_Baphomar
07-26-2007, 03:43 PM
I have done the reaver raid many times and I dont think he is so soloable as you say first you have to deal with the antigravity and then you have to deal with all the dang elementals.

Top left of your screen, hit search, type in solo reaver...see what comes up;

One. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=114425&highlight=reaver+solo)

Two (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=114240&highlight=reaver+solo)

Three. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=109891&highlight=reaver+solo)

Four. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=111953&highlight=reaver+solo)

Five. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=105987&highlight=reaver+solo)

Six. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=109081&highlight=reaver+solo)

Do I need to continue?? Its soloable....

Gol
07-26-2007, 03:47 PM
I have done the reaver raid many times and I dont think he is so soloable as you say first you have to <snip>
You just won the noob-of-the-day award. And you're a founder - wow.

Roguewiz
07-26-2007, 03:58 PM
I completely agree. I have no problems with the reaver being solo'able once we're all level 18 but we're not talking about a mob that's solo'able 5 levels later or after the next expansion. We're talking about the hardest, highest level raid boss being solo'able NOW when it is still the highest level raid in the game. You yourself said there was no way you could solo Zlandicar at lvl 60 but at 65 he becomes a joke. However Zlandicar was only a baby boss not the MAIN HIGHEST level boss of the expansion. I'd doubt it if you could solo all of the Temple of Veeshan even at level 70 or 75.....

No arguements here. (and as far as ToV goes..yea, can't solo there. I tried :D )

I wish things were coded and designed to the point where soloing such a high level encounter would near impossible. Everything is so inflated, that you get to the point where the inflation of power exceeds the power level of the game. Its a never ending spiral. More Powerful mobs = more powerful loot = more powerful players = trivializing encounters...ect ect.

Hafeal
07-26-2007, 04:12 PM
You want better uber loot to drop more often so that the quests will then be even easier? I disagree with that. I can only suggest that if the Reaver is easy for you, hey, try it with masterwork items instead of the +5 mithril, paralyzing, vorpal, banishing, smiting arsenal in your menu bars. If you are still bored and your ONLY reason to play this game is for loot then I say you might want to take a break.

Every quest in the game is easier after you have done it 20+ times because your memory cannot be erased and you will consciously and sub-consciously use the AI to your advantage in conjunction with your uber gear, as well stated by Roguewiz below.

This OP, to me, is another reason why +50% xp and +1 loot weekends should be rarer and split up. The idea of the uber loot is that it should be extremely rare, not so that every lev 14 character has these items.



Most MMO developers never intend on having a "raid encounter" done solo. Soloing such an encounter is the result of one (or all) of the following:

1. Higher Level than the encounter was originally designed for.
2. Extremely well equiped
3. Good Player
4. Broken Class (IE...not balanced)
5. Bug


To give you an idea, speaking from another game experience, Everquest. At level 60, I could not even make an attempt to solo Zlandicar (Dragon in Dragon Necropolis). 5 Levels later, and 120 AAs, I soloed him without even being taken down to half-life, as a Wizard.

Gear and Levels > designer content. They could circumvent this by re-evaluating all content when levels go up, however, this puts a damper on those that would like to attempt the content at the level/power scale it was originally designed for.

Vardak
07-26-2007, 04:14 PM
The only thing is: not soloable generally translates into lame multipart’s that artificially force groups to split up. What is so wrong with unbelievably difficult to solo?

T-MacForMVP
07-26-2007, 04:22 PM
I'd be happy if they made it so all classes can participate meaningfully in the raid. Reaver can be done really easily with one tank, and a good caster wand healing him. Rogues, rangers, bards (dancing sphere aside) are mostly marginalized unless you have a high AC build who can tank.

And no, wand healing from the archway until it's puzzle time does not count as meaningful contribution.

My bard is EXTREMELY useful in that raid.. as for i can main heal And Crowd Control... and its not just "wand Healing", my bard used her umd to cast Heal Scrolls without Fail... And my dancing Sphere's Keep the Air elementals at bay... Not to Mention the Buffs i can throw out... GH, Songs, Blur, Displacement, Haste, and then i can UMD other buffs i can't cast like stone skin...

I dont play a ranger... but ... Rangers can be ALSO be extremely useful in that quest... if the Ranger has a Banishing bow... the ranger by himself can take out almost all of the elementals if not All..

Creadance
07-26-2007, 04:31 PM
You just won the noob-of-the-day award. And you're a founder - wow.

Thanks for the personal attack.

Sorry I am not a power gamer and I only play straight classes and hate soloing so I never have tried it.

My mains are mostly tanks.
14th level Fighter Gunnney
14th level Fighter Angus
12th level Rogue Crystal
9th level Paladin Aeroflyn
4th level 32 point buy Madmardegan

To be fair most of those that solo these things are multiclass and min/max characters its just not my style.
Also look at my post count and you will notice I rarely post here.

Besides I wonder how many of these soloers are using the bug about snapback res.

Aeneas
07-27-2007, 07:21 AM
My bard is EXTREMELY useful in that raid.. as for i can main heal And Crowd Control... and its not just "wand Healing", my bard used her umd to cast Heal Scrolls without Fail... And my dancing Sphere's Keep the Air elementals at bay... Not to Mention the Buffs i can throw out... GH, Songs, Blur, Displacement, Haste, and then i can UMD other buffs i can't cast like stone skin...

I dont play a ranger... but ... Rangers can be ALSO be extremely useful in that quest... if the Ranger has a Banishing bow... the ranger by himself can take out almost all of the elementals if not All..

That was why i said dancing sphere aside - if you couldn't cast that one spell, you wouldn't be very sought after. A cleric, good melee, or wizard/sorc that CAN cast it would be picked up instead of you. Even with all the enhancements to raise the potency of a scroll, your heals will never touch a cleric's.

And i really think you overestimate the power of a banisher, even on normal in that quest. I used to dual wield banishing rapiers, and they don't go down as fast as you'd like to think.

Qzipoun
07-27-2007, 07:28 AM
Besides I wonder how many of these soloers are using the bug about snapback res.

None because if you die in the reaver raid you get sent up in a locked room, even if you rez yourself you can't finish it ;)

Trust me on this one, it IS soloable without any bugs or exploits as long as you have the right build for it (if you do use bugs its a piece of cake).

Creadance
07-27-2007, 10:27 AM
None because if you die in the reaver raid you get sent up in a locked room, even if you rez yourself you can't finish it ;)

Trust me on this one, it IS soloable without any bugs or exploits as long as you have the right build for it (if you do use bugs its a piece of cake).

Yup I agree you have to have the right build for it mainly at least 9 or 10 levels of caster mixed with rogue or paladin or cleric combo.

But I forgot about the snap back res bug does not work in here.

Drith
07-30-2007, 03:37 PM
Yup I agree you have to have the right build for it mainly at least 9 or 10 levels of caster mixed with rogue or paladin or cleric combo.

Not true many different pure classes can go in and solo him.

Pure Wiz, Pure Sorc. IMO Pure Fighter with House buffs could probably even do it although I haven't tried this myself.

He is absolute easiest on a pure Warforged Sorc. A pure warforged Sorc. can actually kill him easier alone then in a party of 6 or even 12.

I agree with you though that it is not every class that can solo it. Mainly casters. But anyone who's played D&D or other MMOs know that casters become GODS at the higher levels. It's just a straight up fact of all games. Ya get your arse handed to ya from 1-10.... at 11-16 you start to bite back and at 19-20 you need but blink your eyes and wave your hands a few times to destroy an entire village.

jeffreyalsip
07-30-2007, 08:27 PM
2 words...

ranged weapons

The Titan can be solo'd using range weapons? You seem to be making this stuff up as you go along. How about supplying some more detail?

If you range the pillar bottoms they will always fall in the opposite direction from where you're standing. Not that you would get much chance to try...the Titan will be constantly agroed on YOU as you stand at the laser controls.

Please explain these things...or just admit you have never done it.

Gimpster
07-31-2007, 05:54 AM
The Titan can be solo'd using range weapons? You seem to be making this stuff up as you go along. How about supplying some more detail?
Fine. You go in and shoot the titan to get his shield up. You kill 6 upper pillars. You run around and weaken the lower pillars to 1 hitpoint, being sure to aim them in the right direction as you do. Then you go get the ammo and run it up to the controls. As the Titan steps on the dot shoot a pillar and knock it onto him, then fire the laser.


If you range the pillar bottoms they will always fall in the opposite direction from where you're standing.
Wrong.


Not that you would get much chance to try...the Titan will be constantly agroed on YOU as you stand at the laser controls.
True, you would only have a very little time to do it before he chases you can kills you. Haste potions combined with Ranger Sprint Boost might help. The fact that the Titan is chasing you is what makes it hard, but not impossible.


Please explain these things...or just admit you have never done it.
Nobody claimed to have done it- just that it is technically possible.

Aspenor
07-31-2007, 07:12 AM
The Titan can be solo'd using range weapons? You seem to be making this stuff up as you go along. How about supplying some more detail?

If you range the pillar bottoms they will always fall in the opposite direction from where you're standing. Not that you would get much chance to try...the Titan will be constantly agroed on YOU as you stand at the laser controls.

Please explain these things...or just admit you have never done it.

First time I'll go along with Gimp and say it like this:
WRONG, WRONG, and WRONG.

Spookydodger
07-31-2007, 02:16 PM
Agreed. But gimme a break, the Gloves of Eternity are a joke.

I suppose this is only true if you spend an agonizing amount of time equipping your character to mow through everything rather than trying to have fun with difficult situations :D

While certainly some items are sub-par compared to other items (You get +4 armor bracers out of Waterworks and the best we have now is +6 or +7 on rare occassions?.. Why make Ventilated bracers AC 5), for many of them they have a use besides uber-buffing stats or skills or abilities... they consolidate buff items to free up slots. Maybe not as high as you could get with pure bonus items, but riding the bleeding edge isn't necessary.

jeffreyalsip
07-31-2007, 02:21 PM
First time I'll go along with Gimp and say it like this:
WRONG, WRONG, and WRONG.

Hasn't been done = Can't be done

The Titan can be effectively two-manned, but NOT soloed! In this game, if it CAN be done somebody would have done it by now.

Keep your "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG" to yourself until you can provide a detailed description along with some conclusive screen shots. Until you do that, I remain RIGHT, and you remain very WRONG.

Cowdenicus
07-31-2007, 02:25 PM
Hasn't been done = Can't be done

The Titan can be effectively two-manned, but NOT soloed! In this game, if it CAN be done somebody would have done it by now.

Keep your "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG" to yourself until you can provide a detailed description along with some conclusive screen shots. Until you do that, I remain RIGHT, and you remain very WRONG.

I have done it on my cleric.......

Ziggy
07-31-2007, 02:25 PM
Hasn't been done = Can't be done

The Titan can be effectively two-manned, but NOT soloed! In this game, if it CAN be done somebody would have done it by now.

Keep your "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG" to yourself until you can provide a detailed description along with some conclusive screen shots. Until you do that, I remain RIGHT, and you remain very WRONG.
actually i know of someone who has solo'd it. Ive asked him to come here and share or to allow me to post what he told me.

and also as ive said before. the absence of evidence does not mean that there is evidence of absence.:)

devilmouse
07-31-2007, 02:36 PM
You'll want a minimum of 6 for the M5 boss. And by 'want', I mean 'you've got no chance without at least 6 competent people that play well and play well together'.

The reaver was intended to be easy with a puzzle in the way of completion. The M5 encounter? Far less so.

You should be able to get a peek at it when Risia patches this week.

Gimpster
07-31-2007, 02:39 PM
The Titan can be effectively two-manned, but NOT soloed! In this game, if it CAN be done somebody would have done it by now.
Wrong. Even if nobody has done it that doesn't mean it's impossible. There are numerous obstacles standing in the way.

For example, to try soloing Reaver's Fate you simply go in yourself as many times as you need in the course of a single day. If something screws up, you release and are back to try again within 3 minutes. But to attempt a solo Titan you'd need to beat Twilight Forge before every attempt, and you'd need people to help you do it. Clearly there are some obsessive players out there who are willing to spend countless hours trying to solo a particularly tough quest- but can they also convince 2-3 other players to continually help them through Twilight Forge so he can try again and again and again?

Not likely. The other guys will get bored, and just want to go into the Titan with him and help out so they can have some loot.

Gimpster
07-31-2007, 02:40 PM
You should be able to get a peek at it when Risia patches this week.
Considering that 90% of DDO players have had their Risia accounts wiped clean so they'd be starting fresh from untwinked level 1s, I think it is spectacularly unlikely anyone will get into the module 5 raid this week.

Maybe after the server merges are over other characters will be copied onto Risia. But until that happens, there'll be no real previewing of module 5 beyond maybe talking to the questgivers and then getting spanked by the first 2 mobs inside the door.

jaitee
07-31-2007, 02:41 PM
You'll want a minimum of 6 for the M5 boss. And by 'want', I mean 'you've got no chance without at least 6 competent people that play well and play well together'.

The reaver was intended to be easy with a puzzle in the way of completion. The M5 encounter? Far less so.

You should be able to get a peek at it when Risia patches this week.

ill bet you a dollar when it comes out we can 3 man :D if you go in the raid with the right mind anything can happen, if you go in their thinking i dont have 6 people we are doooooooommmed then maybe yes, but some players are seekers, and when they seek they make things happen

devilmouse
07-31-2007, 02:42 PM
ill bet you a dollar when it comes out we can 3 man :D if you go in the raid with the right mind anything can happen, if you go in their thinking i dont have 6 people we are doooooooommmed then maybe yes, but some players are seekers, and when they seek they make things happen

I will take this bet!

Edit: I will lower this to 5 minimum because I should cover my bases, but no lower than 5!

jaitee
07-31-2007, 02:58 PM
I will take this bet!

Edit: I will lower this to 5 minimum because I should cover my bases, but no lower than 5!

geez now im starting to think theirs 5 levers to be pulled :p

Coldin
07-31-2007, 03:02 PM
geez now im starting to think theirs 5 levers to be pulled :p

Or if there isn't right now, there will be. :D

jaitee
07-31-2007, 03:03 PM
Haha, no, no simultaneously activated levers or other chicanery.

well then the bets on :D

devilmouse
07-31-2007, 03:03 PM
geez now im starting to think theirs 5 levers to be pulled :p

Haha, no, no simultaneously activated levers or other chicanery.

Gimpster
07-31-2007, 03:04 PM
geez now im starting to think theirs 5 levers to be pulled
Or maybe pillars to break.

Think of VON6: you must break x=3 pillars at the same time to finish. Nominally, that would take x=3 players. But if you can apply a delayed damaging effect to kill a pillar when you're not there (like a charmed monster) then you can easily do it with x-1=2 players.

So maybe if M5's raid has 6 pillars to break at once, you could reasonably delegate one of the jobs to a monster or firewall, reducing the need to 5 players. However, it would be seriously more difficult to arrange for two pillars to be killed at the same time by time-delay effects, making X-1=5 a pretty firm minimum.

crimsonretribution
07-31-2007, 03:14 PM
I will take this bet!

I REALLY REALLY hope that you are making it as hard as you make it seem.

Aspenor
07-31-2007, 03:15 PM
I will take this bet!

Edit: I will lower this to 5 minimum because I should cover my bases, but no lower than 5!

When we 3 man it, can I get a box of cookies?

The_Cataclysm
07-31-2007, 03:18 PM
Edit: I will lower this to 5 minimum because I should cover my bases, but no lower than 5!

Bases? So this is another setup like the dragon with a baseball diamond? ;)

devilmouse
07-31-2007, 03:21 PM
Bases? So this is another setup like the dragon with a baseball diamond? ;)

5 bases would be a baseball pentagon!

Strakeln
07-31-2007, 03:22 PM
Haha, no, no simultaneously activated levers or other chicanery.I'm holding you to this, DM. I'm all for quests that are exceedingly difficult, but I find it hard to believe that you can come up with a raid that requires more than 1-3 people without putting such chicanery in.

I mean, really, look at it... there's only four quests that I can recall that cannot be solo'd (unless an exploit is used): Twilight Forge, VoN5, VoN6, Xorian Cipher. Each one of these uses some form of this so-called chicanery, and these are the only reasons that the quests aren't easily soloable.

I hope that you're true to your word, but I suspect you underestimate our abilities. Let's put it this way... we've been bored lately, so we've had plenty of time to hone our solo skills.

The_Cataclysm
07-31-2007, 03:27 PM
5 bases would be a baseball pentagon!

So devil baseball with a Lich. You guys have interesting quest concepts.

devilmouse
07-31-2007, 03:27 PM
I'm holding you to this, DM. I'm all for quests that are exceedingly difficult, but I find it hard to believe that you can come up with a raid that requires more than 1-3 people without putting such chicanery in.

I mean, really, look at it... there's only four quests that I can recall that cannot be solo'd (unless an exploit is used): Twilight Forge, VoN5, VoN6, Xorian Cipher. Each one of these uses some form of this so-called chicanery, and these are the only reasons that the quests aren't easily soloable.

I hope that you're true to your word, but I suspect you underestimate our abilities. Let's put it this way... we've been bored lately, so we've had plenty of time to hone our solo skills.

Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on). There's all manner of means to make things require more people to do (and most of them involve people working together to achieve some goal that's unpossible for them alone).

If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =p

Aspenor
07-31-2007, 03:29 PM
So devil baseball with a Lich. You guys have interesting quest concepts.

I call the Lich on my team.

FoxOne
07-31-2007, 03:33 PM
Hey Turbine. I've made many posts about how much I love this game and how much I love the improvements that you guys have been making to the game so this is positive criticism to help you guys make the game better for everyone.

I think you guys are fully aware of how much you scrwed up on the Storm Reaver but I'm just going to pick that encounter apart as a comparison tool as to what we absolutely do not want to see from the Mod 5 Raid boss so here goes:

The Loot from the Stormreaver is absolute **** AND HE'S SOLO'ABLE !!!

There's level 5 quests out there that are not SOLO'ABLE yet here is the highest level END GAME Boss that can be beaten by a single player consistenly over and over again without even using that many pots or scrolls AND WITHOUT ANY EXPLOITS what so ever.

So my desperate plea to the developers is that in these late stages of Module 5 please take the time to review the difficulty of the raid as well as the drops.

The player base wants these raids to be the most difficult encounters in the game and as such the rewards should be AT THE VERY LEAST be SOMEWHAT usefull.

I'll even be happy if there's 4 out of 12 loots that are HALF DECENT.

There's only 2 half decent loot that comes from the stormreaver and they are the gloves of eternity and the head of good fortune. (maybe the cloak but that's pushing it). Sure + 3 tomes as well but that's not static loot and I can only assume that the new raid boss in MOD 5 will also have a very rare chance of droping + 3 tomes.

Obviously I don't know what is the vision of Turbine for their raid encounters and none of us know for sure what is going on in the heads of the developers but SURELY you are not intentionaly making the highest level raid in the game solo'able. (Again emphasis on NON-Exploiting SOLO'ABLE).

Although with respect to the Stormreaver I truely believe that with his drop rates being such utter **** this at least somewhat justifies a little bit for the fact that the encounter is so utterly easy.


Bottom line:

1) Please please please please make the raid at the very least somewhat difficult with 6 people. Let alone difficult with 12. It is a raid after all and although as we progress and gain better gear, the raids will become easier and easier, I still do not think it makes sense to call them 12 man raids when you can beat them just as fast if not faster with 3 people or even solo in the case of the Stormreaver.

2) Please please please please try to do something with the loot so that 9 times out of 10 both raid loot items do not rott, un-looted in the chest.

Combine all the servers,i don't know if there are more than 10 people capable of doing that.I agree with your intentions but is it really necessary?To solo it,you have to have obviously spent way too much time in there imo,so whatever,powergamers always adjust.

DareDelvis
07-31-2007, 03:33 PM
Hmmm...

Well, there is a difference between difficult and requiring multiple virtual heart beats to complete...

I remember when everyone was so happy with how difficult the Titan was...good times.

I am guesing that no matter how cool the quest, people will find something to bi--complain about.

MysticTheurge
07-31-2007, 03:35 PM
Me fail English?!


that's unpossible

Strumpoo
07-31-2007, 03:35 PM
I don't think all the raids need to be scaled up in difficulty. I think all this does is discourage random groups and players who play for fun to even try them.

I like going into a raid with a chance to complete it without figuring out the "one" way to beat the stupid thing. Some players don't have the time and/or don't want to spend every waking minute in game trying to figure out the one way to beat these raids.

I am fortunate in that I lead a guild who is very busy in game, but if I was in a more casual guild, and didn't play as much, the raids would be at the bottom of my list of things to do, since I would never have a good chance at beating them.

I think what Turbine should shoot for on these raids is a more open way to beat them. Freedom of tactics in these raid would make them a LOT more fun than the current paint by numbers formula they all have.

I happen to like the Reaver raid due to the fact I can log in, get some guildies together and run a raid in 20 minutes. I don't have to run 5 re-keying quests afterwards, I don't need to beat a 1 hour instance before getting to the raid, and there is a chance for some useful items in there. (+2 and +3 tomes, tenderizer, treason, bracers, shield etc..)

Yes I would like some more interesting raid loot items or a way to improve my chances of getting what I wanted from the raids but then again, if you could just go into a raid tell it what items you wanted and then get those items at the end, what would be the point of running the raid again?

I think if the Devs make the raid too difficult for the masses and cater just to the powergaming crowd they lose a big part of their player bases' interest in the game as a whole. Just my 2 coppers.;)


If the Devs are set on making this raid extremely hard then all I ask is that the player base isn't required to go through 5 maddening keying quests everytime they beat the thing.

Morgoth_the_Enemy
07-31-2007, 03:36 PM
would have been a bit funnier if you said engrish.(my oppinion):D

I don't think Ralph said "Engrish" though.

Edit: Bwahaha, Ninja'd Ziggy

Ziggy
07-31-2007, 03:37 PM
Me fail English?!
would have been a bit funnier if you said engrish.(my oppinion):D

Ziggy
07-31-2007, 03:39 PM
I don't think Ralph said "Engrish" though.

Edit: Bwahaha, Ninja'd Ziggy


Precisely.
thats why i said a bit funnier. was still damn funny.

and morgoth im watching you.

EDIT:hmmmm... i think i gave myself 1.5 points last time i did this.

MysticTheurge
07-31-2007, 03:39 PM
I don't think Ralph said "Engrish" though.

Precisely.

Strakeln
07-31-2007, 03:41 PM
Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on). There's all manner of means to make things require more people to do (and most of them involve people working together to achieve some goal that's unpossible for them alone).

If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =pI am now very very very interested in what you have in store for us. I always considered that simultaneous lever stuff to be annoying at best - show of hands, people: who has sat in VoN 5 waiting forever to pick up a second cleric?

I promise to not call for the quest to be toned down. But if I find any chicanery, I'll rig up your computer so that in order to start it up, you have to have four sys admins simultaneously touching 6 specific keys on 8 different keyboards in five separate locations. You know darn well you can only go about 2 weeks before you MUST reboot Windows (if you use Linux my plan is foiled).

Aspenor
07-31-2007, 03:42 PM
If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =p

Absolutely not. I would be rather frustrated if you did, and so would the rest of my guild. We want a challenge. The Stormreaver was like a cakewalk. In fact, we beat it the first time we went in.

devilmouse
07-31-2007, 03:43 PM
You know darn well you can only go about 2 weeks before you MUST reboot Windows (if you use Linux my plan is foiled).

My primary dev box:

16:42:35 up 34 days, 0:40, 1 user

Foiled!

Strakeln
07-31-2007, 03:45 PM
Hasn't been done = Can't be done

The Titan can be effectively two-manned, but NOT soloed! In this game, if it CAN be done somebody would have done it by now.

Keep your "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG" to yourself until you can provide a detailed description along with some conclusive screen shots. Until you do that, I remain RIGHT, and you remain very WRONG.I heard they had ranged weapons in DDO... still looking for one, eh Goolan?

Strakeln
07-31-2007, 03:46 PM
Foiled!DRAT!

Ziggy
07-31-2007, 03:49 PM
My primary dev box:

16:42:35 up 34 days, 0:40, 1 user

Foiled!
aye but can you get outta this one (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/1160120827807xu4.jpg)?:D

Missing_Minds
07-31-2007, 03:51 PM
Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on). There's all manner of means to make things require more people to do (and most of them involve people working together to achieve some goal that's unpossible for them alone).

If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =p

Naw, you gave us warning. Just listen to us complaining and declaration of bugs. Tell us if we are wrong or intended is all we ask, Mouse.

And thanks for the feedback. It is greatly appreciated.

The_Cataclysm
07-31-2007, 03:52 PM
I heard they had ranged weapons in DDO... still looking for one, eh Goolan?

You should try the Axe of Embers. Best weapon in the whole game.

devilmouse
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM
aye but can you get outta this one (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/Cats/1160120827807xu4.jpg)?:D

That would explain the noises my computer makes. Poor thing has to be hot in there.

Tanka
07-31-2007, 03:56 PM
DRAT!
I've left mine on for months. One of my friends only turns his off to move from college back to home and vice versa.

Windows is only as unstable as you make it. If you run a lot of stupid **** on it, yes, it will crash. If you use it for minor things like music and browsing, you can leave it go for months on end without a hiccup.

jaitee
07-31-2007, 04:16 PM
Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on). There's all manner of means to make things require more people to do (and most of them involve people working together to achieve some goal that's unpossible for them alone).

If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =p

working as a team is great, but working by yourself and completing the assigned goals is a much better accomplishment =p

unbeaten? nothing is impossible :D

Morgoth_the_Enemy
07-31-2007, 04:16 PM
working as a team is great, but working by yourself and completing the assigned goals is a much better accomplishment =p

unbeaten? nothing is impossible :D

And luckily for you, there are a wide-selection of single player RPGs on the market.

However, since this is an MMO game, quests and adventures should best be completed as a team. Soloing can be fun, but the greatest accomplishments should be reserved for team play.

Dragonhyde
07-31-2007, 04:31 PM
Personally I dont consider the titan or velah as soloable. You usually have people helping you get through the preraid even if you go into the end by yourself. If they were separate from their preraid quests I would say yes I can see how one person does all of it. But as it is in order to solo those two you would have to ditch people at the end of the preraids.

Gol
07-31-2007, 05:04 PM
If it really can be done by no fewer than 5, I seriously doubt a pug of 12 average players have any chance.

Just my guess...

ccheath776
07-31-2007, 05:09 PM
Is there some point where someone other than the current developer who shall remain nameless, designs a raid boss? Why is it always them.

Getting tired of the same ol stuff. Press lever A, then solve puzzle B. Blah blah blah. Tired unoriginal programming by the same person every time is what i call that.

Gimpster
07-31-2007, 05:30 PM
If it really can be done by no fewer than 5, I seriously doubt a pug of 12 average players have any chance.
Unless there's some kind of skullduggery- not necessarily levers or buttons, but something close.

Suppose there are 6 powerful monsters, and winning the raid requires killing them all within 5 seconds of each other. And that furthermore, the monsters buff each other to be unkillable if they are within 20 feet of each other.

That's the kind of situation which is pretty managable with 6 players, but gets much much harder with each player you're short. It's possible for a player to blast 2 monsters within 10 sec, but really difficult.

Strakeln
07-31-2007, 05:42 PM
Windows is only as unstable as you make it. If you run a lot of stupid **** on it, yes, it will crash. If you use it for minor things like music and browsing, you can leave it go for months on end without a hiccup.Yeah, I agree - my windows box at home is rarely rebooted. But picking on Windows is fun and easy, so I take every cheap shot I can get :D

Strakeln
07-31-2007, 05:47 PM
Personally I dont consider the titan or velah as soloable. You usually have people helping you get through the preraid even if you go into the end by yourself. If they were separate from their preraid quests I would say yes I can see how one person does all of it. But as it is in order to solo those two you would have to ditch people at the end of the preraids.Twilight forge could theoretically be solo'd, although it would require incredible timing, considerable luck, and hefty exploitation. I can't think of a way that it could be done within the game's legal bounds, unless you count two-boxing as solo play (I don't).

T-MacForMVP
07-31-2007, 06:20 PM
That was why i said dancing sphere aside - if you couldn't cast that one spell, you wouldn't be very sought after. A cleric, good melee, or wizard/sorc that CAN cast it would be picked up instead of you. Even with all the enhancements to raise the potency of a scroll, your heals will never touch a cleric's.

And i really think you overestimate the power of a banisher, even on normal in that quest. I used to dual wield banishing rapiers, and they don't go down as fast as you'd like to think.

im sorry that a majority people have your out look on bards... i forget that Wizards/Sorc's dont want an extra DC to their spells... let alone cost 10% less to cast (you know that Bard song called Spellsinger) ... and lets see here... i may not hit u for as much Hp's with my heals as a cleric (and my Cure Crit and Cure serious Spells does almost about that of a clerics),... but my bard can out heal Most clerics... i have done all quests as main healer and been efficient... and also.. if there is a WF in the group... i heal Use reconstruct scrolls, which clerics cant use... ok for my dancing sphere... alright have that aside.. okay.. thats Fine... i get charged so i am immune to the Air Knockdown... and lets see... i sing and i fascinate using all 18 of my songs... and they get fascinated for a minute and 30 secs (and also i have Hypnotism which is semi-AoE)... but again u dont think of that... you think bards are useless! Bards are the most versatile class there is... see my bard is Preferred when i play with my friends and guildie's and also people who know what my bard can do.. especially in the reaver raid... i have both a cleric and a bard... they want my bard because i Can Heal AND Crowd control...

As for banishers.. i know they dont work the greatest... but they still help out quite a bit... especially a Banisher + Many Shot = :-)... and yes i know there is a 120 second cool down... but the elementals dont spawn every second or every 30 seconds for that matter...

p.s. bards also have hypnotic pattern (although i dont use it... especially since it lasts for like 30 seconds)

Spookydodger
07-31-2007, 06:50 PM
Haha, no, no simultaneously activated levers or other chicanery.

You get bonus points for chicanery, Devilmouse

Omega2K
07-31-2007, 07:42 PM
You'll want a minimum of 6 for the M5 boss. And by 'want', I mean 'you've got no chance without at least 6 competent people that play well and play well together'.


So does that mean that there are any folks up at Turbine that can work well enough together to pull it off? Come on surely there must be at least 5 or 6 of you outa the whole bunch! :p

jeffreyalsip
07-31-2007, 07:48 PM
I have done it on my cleric.......

Actually, this used to be conceivably possible, before cometfall was nerfed in there. Since then, huh-uh. Has your cleric dropped pillars and thrown the laser switch after miraculously getting the Titan to stand, where you told him to stand, six different times? I think not.

jeffreyalsip
07-31-2007, 07:54 PM
I heard they had ranged weapons in DDO... still looking for one, eh Goolan?

I have every weapon you have, elite boy...and then some.

Actually, you should be agreeing with me on this thread. We both know that no Elite Raider has done this solo...and if Elite Raiders can't do it NOBODY can do it!

Quartus
07-31-2007, 10:56 PM
Well when your so well equipped your practically a demi-god you can solo just about anything

Strakeln
07-31-2007, 11:07 PM
I have every weapon you have, elite boy...and then some.

Actually, you should be agreeing with me on this thread. We both know that no Elite Raider has done this solo...and if Elite Raiders can't do it NOBODY can do it!Only you would make such a claim. Just like your post earlier, declaring something impossible when the only real requirement would be to have a lot of patience. Think about it... there's no VoN5-like lever/rune system making the quest impossible to solo.

jeffreyalsip
08-01-2007, 12:01 AM
Only you would make such a claim. Just like your post earlier, declaring something impossible when the only real requirement would be to have a lot of patience. Think about it... there's no VoN5-like lever/rune system making the quest impossible to solo.

Just like you to "tiptoe around the issue". I said it HASN'T been done (is that too many conflicting negatives?). I'm convinced that the Titan cannot be done solo. Nobody, not even an Elite Raider, has offered ANY proof that it can be...outside of speculation that exists within ones insubstantial dreams.

So here we stand. The Titan has not been done solo by any Elite Raider, in fact it hasn't been done by ANYBODY that can provide anything more than: "I heard about a guy who once did it...no really, I trust the dude, he woudnt LIE about it. He just never bothered to take screen shots because, well, he is just too damn cool!" Apparently the solo Titan was done by Cheech&Chong!

If there are no levers, it should be possible? Let me try to explain this (I will try to use as few sylables as possible to placate your ER mind):

1) You have to drop the pillars
2) You have to destroy the pillar tops
3) You have to reduce the pillar bottoms to 5% (or so)
4) You have to reduce the Titan to 80% (to get his shields up)
5) You have to run for a crystal and run back to place it in the laser
6) You have to (1) get the Titan to stand where you want him to...you can't have him agroed on YOU or he will be just under the firing platform and away from "pillar hiiting range" and (2) drop the pillare using SOME TYPE of weapon and (3) fire the laser.
7) Do step five and six at least SIX times (with the understanding that YOU have the Titan's agro ALL THE DAMN TIME)
8) Find "some way" to eliminate the Titans last 20% of life

Now, I submit AGAIN that this is IMPOSSIBLE for one player OF ANY CLASS OR POWER to do. It, quite simply, CANNOT BE DONE. Nobody has provided any evidence to the contrary...not even the highly vaunted Elite Raiders. Indeed, all I can get from you is "I know someone who SAID he did it", or "My Cleric did it, though he has no proof (damn liar)". It, quite VERY simply, cannot be done by a single player. Therefore, the Titan IS an exception to the OP's contention, and this discussion IS relevant to the thread.

Prove me otherwise.

Gimpster
08-01-2007, 12:27 AM
Just like you to "tiptoe around the issue". I said it HASN'T been done (is that too many conflicting negatives?). I'm convinced that the Titan cannot be done solo.
Why do you continue to insist that "hasn't" and "cannot" are equivalent words?

The reason the English language has different words for those things is because they mean different things. Maybe it's true that nobody has soloed the Titan... I don't know. But the fact is, it can be done, just like a level 1 bard could solo threnal if he rolled nothing but 20s.

jeffreyalsip
08-01-2007, 01:06 AM
Why do you continue to insist that "hasn't" and "cannot" are equivalent words?

The reason the English language has different words for those things is because they mean different things. Maybe it's true that nobody has soloed the Titan... I don't know. But the fact is, it can be done, just like a level 1 bard could solo threnal if he rolled nothing but 20s.

I make these claims becuse the OP presented this as a "known reality". I say that the Titan CANNOT be done solo, and nobody can provide proof to the contrary. I know my english, and I KNOW what I'm saying.

Can you NOT grasp the english that I'm using?

Perhaps you choose to wait until the level cap raises a few times....THEN you can say: "See? I told you so!" I'm talking about right here, and right now! I CANNOT be done solo....so prove me wrong.

lostinjapan
08-01-2007, 07:14 AM
There's level 5 quests out there that are not SOLO'ABLE

Other than Xorian Cypher, Titan and a few others which REQUIRE more than one body be physically present, I haven't found a quest yet that isn't soloable.


yet here is the highest level END GAME Boss that can be beaten by a single player consistenly over and over again without even using that many pots or scrolls AND WITHOUT ANY EXPLOITS what so ever.

So can DQ. Without exploits. For that matter I'm sure VoN can too I just haven't tried it. Nothing in there worth getting...except maybe the rare tome which can be obtained in DQ or Reaver.


2) Please please please please try to do something with the loot so that 9 times out of 10 both raid loot items do not rott, un-looted in the chest.

One thing I finally agree with you about. A lot of the loot is junk...and it looks like (based on the latest developer activities) that we're going to be even more screwed in the future to get anything 'good'.

Strakeln
08-01-2007, 10:31 AM
Just like you to "tiptoe around the issue". I said it HASN'T been done (is that too many conflicting negatives?).
Just like you to conveniently forget your own posts. You said it HASN'T been done, then you said that is the same thing as it CAN'T be done. Here is where you said it:

Hasn't been done = Can't be done

The Titan can be effectively two-manned, but NOT soloed! In this game, if it CAN be done somebody would have done it by now.


If there are no levers, it should be possible? Let me try to explain this (I will try to use as few sylables as possible to placate your ER mind):

1) You have to drop the pillars
2) You have to destroy the pillar tops
3) You have to reduce the pillar bottoms to 5% (or so)
4) You have to reduce the Titan to 80% (to get his shields up)
5) You have to run for a crystal and run back to place it in the laser
6) You have to (1) get the Titan to stand where you want him to...you can't have him agroed on YOU or he will be just under the firing platform and away from "pillar hiiting range" and (2) drop the pillare using SOME TYPE of weapon and (3) fire the laser.
7) Do step five and six at least SIX times (with the understanding that YOU have the Titan's agro ALL THE DAMN TIME)
8) Find "some way" to eliminate the Titans last 20% of life

Now, I submit AGAIN that this is IMPOSSIBLE for one player OF ANY CLASS OR POWER to do. It, quite simply, CANNOT BE DONE. Nobody has provided any evidence to the contrary...not even the highly vaunted Elite Raiders. Indeed, all I can get from you is "I know someone who SAID he did it", or "My Cleric did it, though he has no proof (damn liar)". It, quite VERY simply, cannot be done by a single player. Therefore, the Titan IS an exception to the OP's contention, and this discussion IS relevant to the thread.I was going to post the step-by-step, but reading back to page one, I see that Gimpster already has.

Now, a little bit off-topic. A few days ago, you attempted to insult me via the old "maturity" insult. In the above quote, you attempt to insult my intelligence and indirectly called Cowdenicus a liar. You're well known for telling people they are fat kids in dad's basement.

Goolan, most of us here are adults, and would like to interact as such. There is really no reason for you to continue acting like such an insufferable buffoon. It is possible to contribute to the discussion without attempting to prove your point via petty insults that were only moderately effective in grade school.

Regarding your Elite Raiders vendetta, you really should look around and figure out who/what you're mad at. If the forum nerf ever gets fixed, I encourage you to go read through the three or four threads that invoked your ire. Your feud with the Elite Raiders is entirely one-sided, although you appear to be doing your best to create enemies.

Ziggy
08-01-2007, 10:33 AM
I make these claims becuse the OP presented this as a "known reality". I say that the Titan CANNOT be done solo, and nobody can provide proof to the contrary. I know my english, and I KNOW what I'm saying.

Can you NOT grasp the english that I'm using?

Perhaps you choose to wait until the level cap raises a few times....THEN you can say: "See? I told you so!" I'm talking about right here, and right now! I CANNOT be done solo....so prove me wrong.
Sorry. I have not solo'd it, but i know someone who has and has no reason to lie to me.

He did ask me not to include his name, but here is what he sent me.


just think about it..ranger....
1) prep the top pillars

2) prep bottoms

3) death ward clickies and freedom of movement ftw and power up..and be prepared to spend about an hour on next part

4) just stay up at the laser he WILL wander off ..i cuse and cripple to slow a lil..wait till he get under laser (make sure laser is in a position so u can break pillar towards him and YES u can do that) break and fire from the point..u will prob need to grab orb , move laser, and then grab another.......needless to say took me about 5 tries trying to break pillars on him and messing up..but that was on gimpy deleted ranger and i have seen no changes that would stop u from being able to do this on a ranger

a big help is jumping dowen every so often and moving..like i said he will move around and wont always sit on u...one way to di it is head towards a pillar, aggro him (helps to buff to 61 ac :P) and stick him so he will be sitting behind it while ur firing...its difficult , but not an exploit, and mostly just takes a lotta time

So enjoy.

oh and i know its possible to wander down on the bottom near the titan and not get hit, as i do it all the time on my barabarian running crystals.

FoxOne
08-01-2007, 10:43 AM
Other than Xorian Cypher, Titan and a few others which REQUIRE more than one body be physically present, I haven't found a quest yet that isn't soloable.




Freshen the air?Unless you recall...?

Aspenor
08-01-2007, 10:46 AM
Freshen the air?Unless you recall...?

:confused:

I solo freshen the air for favor without ever recalling. You must have that quest confused with another.

FoxOne
08-01-2007, 10:46 AM
:confused:

I solo freshen the air for favor without ever recalling. You must have that quest confused with another.

I am confusing it with another,which i believe is called rest for the restless.It's in house P anyways & lvl 4 or 5 quest.You hit a valve & get locked up in a room while another door opens on the other side.So,unless you recall,that one IS IMPOSSIBLE to solo.Notice I wrote unless you recall.

will check tonight & write the name once i have it down.

Vardak
08-01-2007, 10:47 AM
If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =p


No, but at the same time, when someone comes up with a clever solution you didnt expect dont apply some stupid immunity cause the player base is smarter than you are.

<edit> Devilmouse = Best AC1 Dev ever!

Gimpster
08-01-2007, 10:48 AM
Can you NOT grasp the english that I'm using?
Oh, I think I can grasp it. But you're using it in a way different from the standard of what those words actually mean. That is, you are wrong.

It is an infamous fallacy to claim that the absence of evidence is evidence of abscence. Just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be done. It is hard to prove a negative, and the burden of proof is on you to show there is no possible way something could be soloed.

To solo the Titan is unlikely: you've got to run to the button and still have the Titan postitioned correctly, which is maybe a 5% chance. Then you need to drop the pillar correctly, which is around a 75% chance. And then you must repeat that 5 more times. Odds are low it will ever happen. But it could. The Titan's movement can be pretty random sometimes, even if he is aggroed on only one person. With a lot of luck, he will stand still shooting long enough for a solo player to beat him.

Aspenor
08-01-2007, 10:49 AM
I am confusing it with another,which i believe is called rest for the restless.It's in house P anyways & lvl 4 or 5 quest.You hit a valve & get locked up in a room while another door opens on the other side.So,unless you recall,that one IS IMPOSSIBLE to solo.Notice I wrote unless you recall.

will check tonight & write the name once i have it down.

I solod rest for the restless too. :confused:

Gimpster
08-01-2007, 10:50 AM
I am confusing it with another,which i believe is called rest for the restless.It's in house P anyways & lvl 4 or 5 quest.You hit a valve & get locked up in a room while another door opens on the other side.So,unless you recall,that one IS IMPOSSIBLE to solo.
1. Recalling while you solo something does not mean you didn't solo it.
2. You can beat the quest without recalling if you cast Dimension Door to get out of the room. (There are dimension door clicky items which can be used by any character)

Aspenor
08-01-2007, 10:53 AM
1. Recalling while you solo something does not mean you didn't solo it.
2. You can beat the quest without recalling if you cast Dimension Door to get out of the room. (There are dimension door clicky items which can be used by any character)

There are??? Can I have yours?!! I'm a loot ***** and I've never seen one.

I thought that was a dragonmark.

Boulderun
08-01-2007, 11:29 AM
There's a DD clicky in the Shadow Crypt, but I'm pretty sure it is destroyed on exit.

MathGeek
08-01-2007, 01:38 PM
The real question seems to be whether the raid "requires" 6 people due to the difficulty or due to the mechanics.

If it is due to the difficulty, then someone will eventually solo it. You could imagine that in five years I could bring in my twinked out Cleric20/Rogue10/Wizard20 and solo it (assuming they go to epic levels by that point).

If a level 50 character can't solo a measly level 14 raid, then it is strictly due to the mechanics.

The question for the devs is whether this raid "requires" 6 people due to difficulty or mechanics.

The question for the players is whether we want the devs to prevent a solo character from beating the raid via difficulty or mechanics.

Eudimio
08-01-2007, 04:53 PM
There are??? Can I have yours?!! I'm a loot ***** and I've never seen one.

I thought that was a dragonmark.

Aspenor,

About a month ago in the Riedra auction house, I saw a helm of dimension door 3x/rest, ML7, no rr. It had a VERY low starting bid, no buyout. I was shocked. It was removed the same day it was posted. The poster obviously had no idea how valuble it was.

Happy Hunting.

totmacher
08-01-2007, 05:06 PM
Not many people can solo the Reaver. The people complaining about it don't realize the sort of build it takes and all the resources that go into it.

Strakeln
08-01-2007, 06:19 PM
Aspenor,

About a month ago in the Riedra auction house, I saw a helm of dimension door 3x/rest, ML7, no rr. It had a VERY low starting bid, no buyout. I was shocked. It was removed the same day it was posted. The poster obviously had no idea how valuble it was.

Happy Hunting.Wait a minute, I remember that! It was a reward from some event +Sir was throwing, but the DD charges did not recharge. If you looked at the remaining charges bar in the description, it didn't have a "Recharged/Day" section... just "X/3 charges". As I recall, the one on the auction only had one charge left.

Can you imagine being the guy getting suckered into that, only to use it once and have it disappear from his inventory? :eek:

Edit: Found a post by +Sir that confirms this (Ziggy, I'm after your job!):

True enough! I was popping in and out of every server over the weekend and playing various types of games with players at random.

The games I played were:
1) Dice Game: beat my die roll, win a prize!
2) Find the Loot: I dropped a prize somewhere in the ward, everyone nearby has to find it and the person who finds it gets to keep it!
3) Coal Throwing Fight: In a PvP pit, everyone unequips their gear and I drop piles of coal around the fighting pit and everyone picks up the piles and throws them at each other!

Rumor has it that +Tchurvul the Vulture showed up as well spawning minions.

Items I gave out included:
+1 Vorpal Sickle of Haggling
Dagger of Frost
Dagger of Fire
Dagger of Acid
Cupcakes
Coal
Hat (with 3 uses of Dimensional Door, no recharge)
Dragonshards (each type)
Eternal Titan Wand

Healsavant
08-01-2007, 06:51 PM
Hmmmm...I will start by saying how about fixing and working on things that are actually broken like lets say paralize and hold monsters...IN AND OUT of pvp, monster will still shoot,cast and swing on you if you are close enough, and to be honest Reaver is very hard if you straight out fight him the way it was intended, believe me I have done it...you know why 1 guy can complete it? BECAUSE ITS BUGGED and people exploit it, if those all knowing wisemen/and women at Turbine had "FIXED" this early on the amount of raid lot from Reaver would probably be 1/4 what it is currently. Now I am not going to say I havent benefitted from the easy exploitation of the reaver. Lets fixed whats truly broken FIRST before we move ahead to some other...and newer content that will be easily exploited as well. I work for a living, and I beleive in the old saying..."do it right the first time" and if you screw it up fix it immediately so no one knows:)

Rog
08-02-2007, 06:02 AM
the reaver is soloable using the hidy hole:) did i say that:::::::)

JayDubya
08-02-2007, 09:29 AM
The real question seems to be whether the raid "requires" 6 people due to the difficulty or due to the mechanics.

If it is due to the difficulty, then someone will eventually solo it. *snip*

If a level 50 character can't solo a measly level 14 raid, then it is strictly due to the mechanics.


The Tor requires one to take down a giant and a dragon at essentially the same time. Now, imagine that you had to take down 3 purple-named vampires and a purple-named lich at the same time, and they're constantly running around, teleporting and throwing spells about. And you have to kill them all simultaneouslike.

And, what if they are physically seperated by wide distances, such that you can't realistically throw scorching rays at each of them in sequence to kill them off in short order.

Or, alternatively, there could be 5 "copies" of the lich, and you have to kill them all at the same time, and they are physically seperated, blah blah.

That's mechanics, for sure, but wouldn't a prudent boss monster learn the lesson of the Stormreaver and deliberately keep his minions out "all get roasted in one firewall" situations?

Strakeln
08-02-2007, 03:43 PM
The Tor requires one to take down a giant and a dragon at essentially the same time. Now, imagine that you had to take down 3 purple-named vampires and a purple-named lich at the same time, and they're constantly running around, teleporting and throwing spells about. And you have to kill them all simultaneouslike.

And, what if they are physically seperated by wide distances, such that you can't realistically throw scorching rays at each of them in sequence to kill them off in short order.

Or, alternatively, there could be 5 "copies" of the lich, and you have to kill them all at the same time, and they are physically seperated, blah blah.

That's mechanics, for sure, but wouldn't a prudent boss monster learn the lesson of the Stormreaver and deliberately keep his minions out "all get roasted in one firewall" situations?To be clear, devilmouse, this falls under the chicanery umbrella in my book. Making things physically impossible to do without < X number of people is a whole different thing than making things exceedingly difficult to do without > X number of people.

Gimpster
08-02-2007, 03:50 PM
To be clear, devilmouse, this falls under the chicanery umbrella in my book.
But

Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on)

loki523
08-02-2007, 04:33 PM
Twilight forge could theoretically be solo'd, although it would require incredible timing, considerable luck, and hefty exploitation. I can't think of a way that it could be done within the game's legal bounds, unless you count two-boxing as solo play (I don't).

Hmmm.

So here's the deal.

A while back, I didn't think TF could be 2 manned. I was proven wrong. So my brother and I went in and became the first (and only as far as I know) 2 man group to ever beat TF on elite (not only did we beat it, we screwed up our medallions and ended up getting conquest while killing every monster in TF except for the 4 WF up in yellow. I personally soloed purple lol).

I have always assumed TF was impossible to solo so I never gave it much thought. After reading some of the posts on this thread, I sat down with pen and paper and figured out that TF can be soloed without exploits of any sort.

So I'll do it and post some screenies for you. :D

Edit: When we 2 manned TF on elite, we went into the Titan on elite as well. We knocked him down to 80% easy enough and the rest should have been a cakewalk but I made a mistake, we had a little bad luck, and we wiped. It was a heartbreaker. So, as far as I know, 2 man TF elite definately belongs to us but 2 man (including the Titan) on elite is still up for grabs. ;)

Strakeln
08-02-2007, 04:37 PM
ButAh, missed/forgot about that part. Thanks Gimpster.

Strakeln
08-02-2007, 04:43 PM
I have always assumed TF was impossible to solo so I never gave it much thought. After reading some of the posts on this thread, I sat down with pen and paper and figured out that TF can be soloed without exploits of any sort.

So I'll do it and post some screenies for you. :DWow, that's interesting... there must be something about the quest that I'm not seeing.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT (that's the sound of screeching tires)... never mind, I see what you're going to do. You essentially run the quest a few times, hitting a DDoor after using a gem to drop one or two of those barriers, then bring the next set of gems down, repeat until all barriers are dropped.

Good call, that one now appears to be officially soloable (the only caveat that I can think of is the limited quantity of gems and the multiple times you would have to take some of them).

loki523
08-02-2007, 04:48 PM
never mind, I see what you're going to do.

:D

Vox
08-05-2007, 12:48 AM
Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on). There's all manner of means to make things require more people to do (and most of them involve people working together to achieve some goal that's unpossible for them alone).

If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =p

Just a point but killing disparate targets in sync can be done by a single person, there are a number of methods for area of effect damage...;P

GlassCannon
08-05-2007, 01:44 AM
Wow, that's interesting... there must be something about the quest that I'm not seeing.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT (that's the sound of screeching tires)... never mind, I see what you're going to do. You essentially run the quest a few times, hitting a DDoor after using a gem to drop one or two of those barriers, then bring the next set of gems down, repeat until all barriers are dropped.

Good call, that one now appears to be officially soloable

No. You need a cleric with you, or someone with 3 Raise rings(2 if you have Striding 20%+). Titan, however, is soloable(but not at all easy). The colored tunnels will get you. Unless......

GlassCannon
08-05-2007, 01:59 AM
My guildmates and I really enjoyed duoing and 3-manning raid bosses(I solo'd DQ on Elite, before the ridiculously overpowered archers that is. No I didn't take a screenshot. If I do it again I will not take one) and seeing how far we could push the envelope... if we really could solo the Raids. To date only Titan and DQ have been solo'd that I know of, and that was before the &#252;ber archers on the DQ's pillars. In fact when I did it the lava was still low enough to walk around on the rocks.

Some of us really like doing extremely difficult things with capped and overfunded characters. I'd like raids that are doable by single or duo parties for no extra reward initially, but twin(not identical) guaranteed pieces of Raid Loot should we succeed with the Boss, with nobody to roll against for them, yet difficult and complex enough to require a raid group should an average group try their hand. Of course, we also did this because the population of Mabar was rather tiny in our preferred raiding hours and nobody else would come. The lack of personnel reason is why we 3-manned Velah, then 3-manned Titan Elite(Time Trial), then 3-manned Demon Queen.

Strakeln
08-05-2007, 02:01 AM
Unless......Exactly.

loki523
08-20-2007, 12:12 PM
Haha, no, no simultaneously activated levers or other chicanery.

Talked to some people who went to GenCon. Word on the street is that the reason the raid can't be 3 manned (or less) IS because of splits or some other tomfoolery. I call shenannigans!

Shadow_Flayer
08-20-2007, 12:26 PM
Talked to some people who went to GenCon. Word on the street is that the reason the raid can't be 3 manned (or less) IS because of splits or some other tomfoolery. I call shenannigans!

Yes, something like that. I believe the splits are random ... or more ... the Black Abbott decides who goes where and with whom they go; you don't get to pick your pairing.

It might make a nice get away. The Abbott seemed pretty mean. He was casting almost as fast as a kobold shaman.

loki523
08-20-2007, 12:36 PM
I solo'd DQ on Elite, before the ridiculously overpowered archers that is.

I got a kick out of this. I designed one of the toughest min/max archery builds in the game. My brother plays it and he has some serious skills. I can tell you, for a fact, that there is VERY little in the game that is more underpowered than archery. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee that there are no archers in the game that can spank DQ solo faster than my battle cleric...



To date only Titan and DQ have been solo'd that I know of, and that was before the über archers on the DQ's pillars.

Reaver is soloed constantly. Also, I have yet to see any sort of proof that anyone has soloed Titan. I've seen several people claiming they have done it by ranging the pillars. There is no doubt that this is possible but there is a HUGE difference between possible and probable. I find it highly improbable that anyone has managed to drop 6 pillars on him solo (especially seeing as how one person has constant aggro) and I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

Some have speculated that the Titan could have been soloed when cometfall used to drop him easily but I find that highly improbable as well. Timing has always been ridiculously touchy on the whole cometfall/shoot tactic and I doubt this ever worked solo.

As far as the forge itself, it was 2 manned once before us but my brother and I were the first to 2-man it on elite. I tried soloing it recently on my batman and got REAL close but I found it was impossible with her build. In my estimation, it is possible to do but you'd probably need a Dwarf ranger with well over 400 hp and a pretty ridiculous UMD. Even then, I'm not entirely sure it can be done. It involves surviving the run through the yellow passage without a yellow medallion. I'm thinking 400+ hp, haste, max sprint boost, +30% striding, and a well-timed heal scroll might do the trick...

Strakeln
08-20-2007, 01:44 PM
Some have speculated that the Titan could have been soloed when cometfall used to drop him easily but I find that highly improbable as well. Timing has always been ridiculously touchy on the whole cometfall/shoot tactic and I doubt this ever worked solo.I would have to disagree with this when talking about the old cometfall method (note: I am not claiming that it was done, just that it was more than possible). At one point, I was in there with a cleric friend... we had the titan cursed via both bestow curse and cursespewing. My cleric friend was using a stack of cometfall scrolls (remember this was before the scroll cooldown nerf) - he kept the titan on his back for pretty much the entire run.

I do agree that while possible, soloing the titan now is highly improbable. I don't think I would even consider attempting it without setting up people to pass you through Twilight Forge.

loki523
08-20-2007, 02:13 PM
he kept the titan on his back for pretty much the entire run

I used to do the same with cometfall and pre-nerf Whirlwind. He used to go down easy but you only have a fraction of a second to hit him with the laser and have it actually register a hit. I can't count how many times we hit him square in the face while he was down and nothing happened...

Ziggy
08-20-2007, 02:14 PM
As far as the forge itself, it was 2 manned once before us but my brother and I were the first to 2-man it on elite. I tried soloing it recently on my batman and got REAL close but I found it was impossible with her build. In my estimation, it is possible to do but you'd probably need a Dwarf ranger with well over 400 hp and a pretty ridiculous UMD. Even then, I'm not entirely sure it can be done. It involves surviving the run through the yellow passage without a yellow medallion. I'm thinking 400+ hp, haste, max sprint boost, +30% striding, and a well-timed heal scroll might do the trick...
Loki, why would you have to run through the yellow corridor without a medallion?

even if you did that you would have to go back and get one in order to make it through the corridor after beating the golems and before the mind flayer.

Strakeln
08-20-2007, 03:45 PM
Loki, why would you have to run through the yellow corridor without a medallion?

even if you did that you would have to go back and get one in order to make it through the corridor after beating the golems and before the mind flayer.hehe I was wondering this myself!

p.s. Loki - everybody knows you can't hit his face, you need to aim for his toes!!! :p

loki523
08-20-2007, 04:06 PM
I'll shoot you both a PM on how to solo TF. No exploits or anything but who knows what angers the KK nowadays...

Strakeln
08-29-2007, 08:23 AM
Hey - I just said no simultaneous lever business (which includes, but is not limited two, pressure plates, doors, killing of disparate targets in sync, and so on). There's all manner of means to make things require more people to do (and most of them involve people working together to achieve some goal that's unpossible for them alone).

If it goes unbeaten for a long time due to people being unable to work together, do I still have to tone it down? =pSo from the feedback I've been reading on the Risia forums, the raid boss teleports members to different rooms, where they are then required to kill the occupants of said rooms. I'll wait until I see what truly needs to be done when, but this sure sounds like the "killing of disparate targets in sync"...

As I said, I'll wait until it's live on the main servers, but I will be highly disappointed if we once again are stuck with dev cheese in response to players being skilled enough to solo/short man raids.

maddmatt70
08-29-2007, 12:17 PM
Yogurt your a solid bard how can you say bards are less desired then clerics in the reaver. I have 3 manned the reaver many times with my bard as the primary healer and I could probably 2 man it with the right class/player. Displacement which a cleric does not have and somewhat of a healing oriented build and away you go. Battle bards could tank the Reaver for that matter. By the way my bard has done the Gianthold Tor on elite as the only healer and over 20 scale runs as the only healer. Stop spreading myths that bards can't heal.

Norg

Crabo
08-29-2007, 01:00 PM
I believe that all you people that are keeping this thread on subject are making it difficult for loki523 to boast about him and his brothers accomplishments AGAIN. Please...unless you are here to tell loki523 that he is the man, please dont post.

Edit : loki523 you are the man.

ebt-dnd
08-29-2007, 03:23 PM
I got a kick out of this. I designed one of the toughest min/max archery builds in the game.

I think the guy was talking about the archers on the top of the pillars, not a player archer.

Angelus_dead
02-02-2009, 03:39 AM
Please...unless you are here to tell loki523 that he is the man, please dont post.
Loki523 is the MAAN

KatanAztar
02-02-2009, 03:55 AM
It's ironic that it was soloable without exploits on a WF caster with enough mana pots before mandatory puzzles lol.

Wizzly_Bear
02-02-2009, 03:56 AM
Loki523 is the MAAN
wow......a 17 month necro :eek: