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Aranticus
07-23-2007, 01:20 AM
i do not think i saw a thread about the levels yet so i guess i'll just start it. i'll expand from the existing threads and expand on the ML. i'll be taking awhile to fill out this thread so do be patient. in addition, the effects and ML are only for random effects found on non-named items. for weapons, armors and shields, the calculations is done with a base of a +1 item (weapons, armor and shields only. robes and asscessories have no base +1 items) which has no ML

Weapon Effects

ML+2 - Elemental, Deception, Ghost Touch, Impact, Keen, Lesser Bane, Maiming, Pure Good, Righteousness, Shattermantle, Thundering, True Chaos, True Law, Vicious

ML+4 - Anarchic, Axiomatic, Bane, Bone Breaking, Crippling, Elemental Burst, Enfeebling, Holy, Parrying, Puncturing, Slowburst, Transmuting, Unholy

ML+6 - Cursespewing, Finesse, Greater Bane, Maladriot, Weakening, Wounding

ML+8 - Anarchic Burst, Axiomatic Burst, Destruction, Holy Burst, Strength Sapping, Unholy Burst

ML+10 - Banishing, Disruption, Paralysing, Smiting, Vorpal

For each additional + of weapon above +1, ML+2

For Backstabbing, each +1 is ML+2

For Seeker, Shatter, Tendon Slice, Vertigo and Weighted, each +2 or 1% is ML+2


Armor, Robes and Shield Effects

ML+2 - Bashing, Blinding, Blueshine, Command, Lesser Elemental Guard, Lesser Elemental Resistance, Lesser False Life, Lesser Weapon Block, Light Fortification, Mobile, Power I, Sacred, Shadow, Spell Resistance (11), Stability

ML+4 - Elemental Guard, Elemental Resistance, Power II - III, Spell Resistance (13), Weapon Block, Wizardry I

ML+6 - Elemental Resistance, False Life, Fearsome, Ghost Touch, Invulnerability, Moderate Fortification, Power IV, Spell Resistance (15)

ML+8 - Deathblock, Improved Elemental Resistance, Improved False Life, Improved Shadow, Improved Silent Moves, Power VII, Spell Resistance (17), Twilight, Wizardry III

ML+10 - Greater Elemental Resistance, Greater Shadow, Heavy Fortification, Magi, Power VIII - IX, Spell Resistance (19)

For each additional + of armor/shield above +1, ML+2

For robes there is an inherent ML-2

Assessory Effects


RR Effect

Racial requirement reduces ML by 2


So how do we use it? for say a +3 flaming burst longsword of backstabbing+3, the ML = +4 (2 additional + of weapon) +4 (flaming burst) + 6 (+3 backstab) = ML14


Acknowledgements

Sacrement - weapon attribute specs thread
Tanka
Jolani

Tanka
07-23-2007, 05:48 AM
A +1 Vorpal is ML10, actually. +1 Frost is ML2.

By your math, the above are ML12 and ML4, respectively, which is just not so.

Aranticus
07-23-2007, 07:59 AM
thanks for pointing out. i did have a line stating that the base is a +1 weapon but i think i edited it out accidentally. my calculation also shows the correct ML calculation :)

Tanka
07-23-2007, 08:15 AM
thanks for pointing out. i did have a line stating that the base is a +1 weapon but i think i edited it out accidentally. my calculation also shows the correct ML calculation :)
I figured that was the error, just wanted to catch it before people started yelling at Turbine for improper ML calculation. :p

woofy
07-23-2007, 12:41 PM
i dont think deathblock adds +10 to the minimum level, i have a deathblock robe of a stability that i use on my 6 ranger and its not rr

Tanka
07-23-2007, 12:44 PM
i dont think deathblock adds +10 to the minimum level, i have a deathblock robe of a stability that i use on my 6 ranger and its not rr
Deathblock on robes is ridiculously low. I think base ML4.

Jolani
07-23-2007, 12:48 PM
Robes act differently than armor. Example: Robe of Invulnerability, ML 4. +1 Banded Mail of Invulnerability, ML 6. Robes have no + to ac, so they start with less of a min level. I believe it is 2 ML less than the same type of modifiers on a set of armor.

tihocan
07-23-2007, 01:42 PM
You should not list the minimum level but instead the base modifier.
Like, a +x enhancement is a +x modifier.
Cursespewing is a +3 modifier.
Elemental is a +1 modifier, and Elemental burst is a +2.
Etc...

This page explains it:
http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Base_price_modifier

And a bunch of modifiers are listed here:
http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Weapon_enhancements
http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Armor_enhancements

Aranticus
07-24-2007, 01:26 AM
robes now have separate column, deathblock was ML+10 as a +2 deathblock shield i seen in AH is ML12, deduct 2 ML for the additional +1, then deathblock on shield is 10.

tihocan, thanks for the ddowiki pages. problem is while its used so very often, no one bothers to really search out the modifiers. i dun use the wiki hence i did it here. ML or modifier, it doesnt really matter for they are both linear, ie +1 mod = ML+2, +2 mod = ML+4, etc

ps if any1 have any thing to add or change, pls post and i'll update it

Borror0
07-24-2007, 05:32 AM
robes now have separate column, deathblock was ML+10 as a +2 deathblock shield i seen in AH is ML12, deduct 2 ML for the additional +1, then deathblock on shield is 10.

tihocan, thanks for the ddowiki pages. problem is while its used so very often, no one bothers to really search out the modifiers. i dun use the wiki hence i did it here. ML or modifier, it doesnt really matter for they are both linear, ie +1 mod = ML+2, +2 mod = ML+4, etc

The weapon and armor sections are currently under work, your information will help us a lot, thanks. :)


ps if any1 have any thing to add or change, pls post and i'll update it

We will do, mutual help. ;)

tihocan
07-24-2007, 09:38 AM
ML or modifier, it doesnt really matter for they are both linear, ie +1 mod = ML+2, +2 mod = ML+4, etc
Yep, but the ML's are all multiples of 2, so I just find it easier to divide everything by 2 :)
Also means you don't have to worry about a "+1" having no ML requirement, as it simply comes from the formula ML = 2*(base modifier - 1)

The_Cataclysm
07-24-2007, 10:04 AM
You should not list the minimum level but instead the base modifier.
Like, a +x enhancement is a +x modifier.
Cursespewing is a +3 modifier.
Elemental is a +1 modifier, and Elemental burst is a +2.
Etc...

This page explains it:
http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Base_price_modifier

And a bunch of modifiers are listed here:
http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Weapon_enhancements
http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Armor_enhancements

I agree. Much easier to read that way, especially once you get into armor and robes.

UtherSRG
07-25-2007, 10:30 AM
Here's how I wrote it up for a previous guild. I have a similar write up for armor. It needs to be updated, though...



Ever wonder at what base cost or minimum level a particular weapon would be? Want to figure out the best weapon you can hope to find? This list will help you. Each enchantment provides the equivalent of a +1 enchantment to a weapon. The equivalent enchantment level to a weapon contributes significantly to the base price of the weapon, as well as the minimum level required to wield the weapon. A weapon's base price is the price for the unenchanted weapon, plus the enchantment cost, plus the material cost.

The formulae for computing Minimum Level (ML) and Enchantment Cost (EC) from Enchantment Level (EL) are:

ML = 2 * (EL - 1)
EC = 2 * (EL * EL)

Currently, the maximum ML for weapons in the loot tables is 12, which means a maximum Enchantment of +7. (+8 is possible with the weapon being Racially Restricted.) Also, a weapon can not have one of these enchantments without being at least a +1 weapon already.

-1 Enchantment
Racial Requirement

+1 Enchantment
Prefices
True Law, True Chaos
Elemental damage (Shock, Thundering, Frost, Flaming, Acid)
Ghost Touch, Vicious, Keen, Crippling
Seeker +2
Suffices
Pure Good
Deception, Righteousness
Power I
Lesser Bane
Backstabbing +1
Shatter, Weighted, Vertigo, Tendon Slice +2

+2 Enchantment
Prefices
Alignment damage (Holy, Anarchic, Axiomatic)
Elemental Burst damage
Seeker +4
Suffices
Puncturing, Enfeebling, Bone Breaking
Power II, Power III, Wizardry I
Bane
Backstabbing +2
Shatter, Weighted, Vertigo, Tendon Slice +4

+3 Enchantment
Prefices
Cursespewing, Weakening, Wounding
Seeker +6
Suffices
Wizardry II
Greater Bane
Backstabbing +3
Shatter, Weighted, Vertigo, Tendon Slice +6

+4 Enchantment
Prefices
Alignment Burst damage
Strength Sapping
Seeker +8
Suffices
Disruption, Destruction
Backstabbing +4
Shatter, Weighted, Vertigo, Tendon Slice +8

+5 Enchantment
Prefices
Seeker +10
Vorpal
Suffices
Backstabbing +5
Shatter, Weighted, Vertigo, Tendon Slice +10

For ammo, things are a little simpler, since there are fewer enchantments. Ammo may have a metal, and have either a suffix or a prefix.

The formulae for computing Minimum Level (ML) and Enchantment Cost (EC) from Enchantment Level (EL) are:

ML = 2 * (EL - 1)
EC = 160 * (EL * EL) (per 20 pieces of ammo)

+1 Enchantment
Elemental, Bane

+2 Enchantment
Alignment

+3 Enchantment
Greater Bane

+4 Enchantment
Slaying

+6 Enchantment
Greater Slaying

Aranticus
07-25-2007, 09:37 PM
UtherSRG thanks for your input will get an ammo section up as well. btw the max ML is not ML14 due to the +1 loot, the lvl of L14 quests in GH on elite will give L17 chests and thus using the convention of max ML = chest lvl - 3, 14 is the highest we can get

i understand the use of enchantment rather than ML for calculation purposes. the problem is enchantment does not figure as prominently as ML (since ML is in the description). in addition, most folks are not too bothered with the base price of the equipment since pp is so easy to get in DDO.

enchantment gives weapons this formula in determining base price:

Base price = 2000 + [6000 + (4000 x A)],

where A = enchanment lvl, and the whole term in the [] is only applied if enchantment is +1 or greater (ML2 or higher). thus,

ML0 (no additional enchanment bonus) = 2000
ML2 = 8000
ML4 = 18000
ML6 = 32000
ML8 = 50000
ML10 = 72000
ML12 = 98000
ML14 = 128000

UtherSRG
07-25-2007, 09:58 PM
Like I said, my writeup is out of date. Otherwise, it is correct.

Your formula is incorrect. You need a squared term.

Using your formula:
ML 2 = 16000 *wrong*
ML 4 = 24000 *wrong*
ML 6 = 32000 correct
ML 8 = 40000 *wrong*
ML 10 = 48000 *wrong*
ML 12 = 56000 *wrong*
ML 14 = 64000 *wrong*

UtherSRG
07-25-2007, 10:02 PM
Here's my writeup on armor. It's also out of date.

Ever wonder at what base cost or minimum level a particular piece of armor would be? Want to figure out the best armor you can hope to find? This list will help you. Each enchantment provides the equivalent of a +1 enchantment to a piece of armor. The equivalent enchantment level to a piece of armor contributes significantly to the base price of the armor, as well as the minimum level required to wear the armor. A piece of armor's base price is the price for the unenchanted weapon, plus the enchantment cost, plus the material cost.

The formulae for computing Minimum Level (ML) and Enchantment Cost (EC) from Enchantment Level (EL) are:

ML = 2 * (EL - 1)
EC = (EL * EL

Currently, the maximum ML for armor in the loot tables is 12, which means a maximum Enchantment of +7. (+8 is possible with the armor being Racially Restricted.) Also, aarmor can not have one of these enchantments without being at least a +1 armor already.

-1 Enchantment
Racial Requirement

+1 Enchantment
Prefices
Lesser Guard
Suffices
Lesser False Life
Light Fortification
Lesser Resist
Command
Power I

+2 Enchantment
Prefices
Guard
Suffices
Block (Axeblock, etc)
Shadow
Silent Moves
Spell Resistance (13)
Power II, Power III, Wizardry I


+3 Enchantment
Prefices
Fearsome
Twilight
Suffices
False Life
Moderate Fortification
Invulverability
Resistance
Spell Resistance (15)
Power IV, Wizardry II


+4 Enchantment
Prefices
Deathblock
Suffices
Improved False Life
Improved Shadow
Improved Resistance
Improves Silent Moves
Spell Resistance (17)
Power VI, Power VII, Wizardry III


+5 Enchantment
Suffices
Heavy Fortification
Greater Silent Moves
Spell Resistance (19)
Power VIII, Power IX

Darkdominion
07-25-2007, 11:04 PM
Deathblock on robes is ridiculously low. I think base ML4.

As I stare my Deathblock Robe of Spell Resistance(15) in the face...ML is 10. That would make sense if Deathblock on Robes is indeed ML +4, either that or you have Spell Resistance(15) improperly marked.

The_Cataclysm
07-25-2007, 11:17 PM
As I stare my Deathblock Robe of Spell Resistance(15) in the face...ML is 10. That would make sense if Deathblock on Robes is indeed ML +4, either that or you have Spell Resistance(15) improperly marked.

Due to bugs in the sytem Deathblock appears both as a +4 enchantment and as a +3 one currently. That's why it can appear with ML of 4 on a robe. If they ever fix it the +4 enchantment is the proper one.

Aranticus
07-25-2007, 11:55 PM
Like I said, my writeup is out of date. Otherwise, it is correct.

Your formula is incorrect. You need a squared term.

Using your formula:
ML 2 = 16000 *wrong*
ML 4 = 24000 *wrong*
ML 6 = 32000 correct
ML 8 = 40000 *wrong*
ML 10 = 48000 *wrong*
ML 12 = 56000 *wrong*
ML 14 = 64000 *wrong*

it should 2000 + 6000/EL + X

i use X as i've yet to derive the expression, but its tied to the EL. for EL2, the value of X = 4000. EL3, X = 4000 + 8000, EL4 = 4000 + 8000 + 12000.

so for a ML8 or EL4 weapon, the base price will be 2000 + 24000 + 4000 + 8000 + 12000 = 50000 gp

The_Cataclysm
07-26-2007, 12:30 AM
it should 2000 + 6000/EL + X

i use X as i've yet to derive the expression, but its tied to the EL. for EL2, the value of X = 4000. EL3, X = 4000 + 8000, EL4 = 4000 + 8000 + 12000.

so for a ML8 or EL4 weapon, the base price will be 2000 + 24000 + 4000 + 8000 + 12000 = 50000 gp

Well the easy way to do it would be:

2000*[ML/2 +1]^2

Of course ML/2+1 is the total enchantment level of the item with a particular ML. :)

UtherSRG
07-26-2007, 05:43 AM
it should 2000 + 6000/EL + X

i use X as i've yet to derive the expression, but its tied to the EL. for EL2, the value of X = 4000. EL3, X = 4000 + 8000, EL4 = 4000 + 8000 + 12000.

so for a ML8 or EL4 weapon, the base price will be 2000 + 24000 + 4000 + 8000 + 12000 = 50000 gp

*laughs* Your X fudge factor introduces the squared term: the sum of an arithmetic series is a square, and 4 + 8 + 12 = 4 * (1 + 2 + 3).


Well the easy way to do it would be:

2000*[ML/2 +1]^2

Of course ML/2+1 is the total enchantment level of the item with a particular ML. :)

Quite precisely what I state above in a more cryptic manner. :)

Aranticus
07-26-2007, 06:37 AM
*laughs* Your X fudge factor introduces the squared term: the sum of an arithmetic series is a square, and 4 + 8 + 12 = 4 * (1 + 2 + 3).



Quite precisely what I state above in a more cryptic manner. :)

well i'm not mathematically inclined :p

The_Cataclysm
07-26-2007, 10:03 AM
Quite precisely what I state above in a more cryptic manner. :)

Well all I did was take the first formula (The ML one) you gave and solved it for EL, then replaced the EL's in the second formula with my first solution. :)

The_Cataclysm
07-26-2007, 10:34 AM
Here is some data on clothing and jewelry:

ML = (EL * 2) + 1
Like all others there is no ML if EL = 1.

Power, Wizardy, Spell Resistance and False life enchantments all have the same bonus as listed by UtherSRG on weapon and armors. Just add greater false life as a +5 enchantment

Masterwork:
Suffices:
Skill +1

-1 Enchantment:
Racial Requirement

+1 Enchantment:
Prefixes:
Armored +1
Striding +5%
Underwater action
Disease Immunity
Stat +1
Suffices:
Resistance +1
Skill +3


+2 Enchantment:
Prefixes:
Armored +2
Blindness Ward
Striding +10%
Feather falling
Proof Against Poison
Stat +2
Suffices:
Protection +1
Skill +5

+3 Enchantment:
Prefixes:
Single Spell Focus
Armored +3
Striding +15%
Stat +3
Suffices:
Elemental Resistance
Resistance +2
Protection +2
Skill +7

+4 Enchantment:
Prefixes:
Armored +4
Striding +20%
Stat +4
Suffices:
Improved Elemental Resistance
Protection +3
Skill +10

+5 Enchantment:
Prefixes:
Double Spell Focus
Armored +5
Striding +25%
Stat +5
Suffices:
Greater Elemental Resistance
Protection +4
Skill +11

+6 Enchantment:
Prefixes:
Armored +6
Striding +30%
Stat +6
Suffices:
Protection +5
Skill +13

+7 Enchantment:
Prefixes:
Armored +7
Suffices:
Protection +6
Skill +15

That should give you a good start.