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Bamff
07-16-2007, 05:44 PM
I'm a little unclear about how the multi class works, I've been playing for a while, but I've always played single class.

These are just arbitrary classes and not meant to be together.

If I start as a Ranger, at level 2 I multi to a Rang 1 / Wizard 1, does that mean that I will be a lvl 1 Ranger for the rest of my "life"? Can you ever go back to ranger again?

When I start the Wizard 1 part, does the game treat it the same as if I just created a wizard from scratch (for the skill points and feats)?

sigtrent
07-16-2007, 05:50 PM
1. You can have up to 3 classes

2. Your total level in all your class is your "character level"

3. You can freely take any class at any "character level" (so you can go ranger1, then take fighter 1 then take ranger2 then wizard1 then fighter 2 etc..

4. First level is a little bit different because you get extra spell points (the normal number times 4) and all characters (not classes) get a feat at first level.

When you make a multi class character you should plan it out to some extent. For isntance if you are taking rogue levels, generaly you want to start as rogue for the extra skill points it offers. Some classes work better together than others, and each classes abbilities are based on class level, and not character level.

Bamff
07-16-2007, 05:52 PM
So if I wanted to make a Rogue/Ranger, would it matter when I took the ranger class? Would it matter if I started off as a Rogue til... 4, then took ranger 1, then took rogue 5?

wundernewb
07-16-2007, 05:55 PM
Nope, you can do that no problem. You just need to be aware that you may eventually miss out on some of the bonus feats/abilities/enhancements available to the higher level rangers or rogues.

Strakeln
07-16-2007, 06:02 PM
If I start as a Ranger, at level 2 I multi to a Rang 1 / Wizard 1, does that mean that I will be a lvl 1 Ranger for the rest of my "life"? Can you ever go back to ranger again?You can pick up levels of different classes at any time, allowing you to end up with any variation of three compatible classes (some classes can't be combined, like paladin and bard).


When I start the Wizard 1 part, does the game treat it the same as if I just created a wizard from scratch (for the skill points and feats)?Yes and no. You get any class feats that a wizard might get at level 1, but you do not get the huge amount of skill points that you get for any class at overall level 1.

The key to multiclassing is to do it with a plan. Too many people decide to multiclass their high level characters when the cap gets raised, then later regret their decision because the build was not optimized for that configuration since conception. Even planned multiclass builds have tricky gotchas mixed in. Here's an example:

I have a rogue1/ranger 13. I planned this build all the way down to the equipment. Like many people, I took rogue as my first level for the huge amount of skill points. There's one major disadvantage of doing this that many people forget: a rogue has 0 Base Attack Bonus (BaB) at level 1, which disqualifies many feat selections. This was no problem for me, because I planned for the dodge feat in my build, and a rogue can take that at level 1. Well, three months later, the playing field changed, and dodge became a much less appealing feat. Unfortunately, my selection of feats to swap it with was quite limited. It cost me a ton of plat and dragonshards to strip and swap the feats around to accomodate this problem. And it turned out that I didn't really need that massive infusion of skill points at level 1.

My recommendation is to dig through some of the multiclass builds that are similar to what you're considering, so that you can learn from the mistakes of others (you'll notice that many people mention that they're on their 4th/5th/etc iteration of the build).

negative
07-19-2007, 05:02 PM
Never, ever multiclass;)

To answer your questions, most of the posters already touched on it. You can take up to 3 classes, and everytime you level you can take any of those 3 classes.

In your example, when you take that first level of wiz, you gain everything a first level wiz would except you don't get the x4 skill points you get at character level 1. You gain +0 BAB, and you do get +3 to your will save, rather than the +1 gained at the rest of the Wiz levels, so in that respect, multiclassing can help get you really good saves depending on the classes multi'd. You'd also get a bunch of SP, 3 arcane spells, and 1 free metamagic feat.

If you took a level of fighter, you'd get +1 BAB, +3 Fort save, and 1 free Fighter Bonus Feat.

No matter what you do, you'll get a general feat at levels, 1,3,6,9, and 12.

Best advice is to grab a character planner and read the ddo wiki and the D20 SRD and build it out to level 14, if not further. If you don't plan, you'll most likely bork your character. Planning is key.

Melthus
07-24-2007, 08:23 PM
Never, ever multiclass;)



Why do people say this? I have seen that said a lot, but no full explanation of why that should be the case. I know that at level 14 pure class characters do whatever their class is intended to do, better than multiclass, but aren't there cases where the multiclass abilities offset this?

I have a multiclass ranger/rogue and while I am only 6th level thus far, I have seen many characters that have a few rogue levels splashed in. Is this character REALLY going to be that much worse than a pure ranger?

I ask this in seriousness, as my highest character is 10th level, and I have yet to see the "high end" stuff.

Mark_G
07-24-2007, 09:04 PM
Melthus--

You ask a good question. Unfortunately, I believe you'll find folks falling into one of two camps...go single class all the way in order to get the best bonuses/abilities/spells of that class vs. take only enough levels of a class to get the best ability. For example, there are many fighterx/Pally3/Rogue2 builds out there. This was to get Paladin Charisma bonus at 3rd level, Rogue Evasion and 2nd level, and lots of fighter feats with the rest.

Me..I like playing single class characters. Why? Because I want to have the ability to have the best abilities of that class...even if I don't know what they are (who knows what abilities/enhancements/etc. will be available for the 20th level ranger?)

I play single classed toons not because I think they are better than multi-classed toons. It is just my play style.

Borror0
07-24-2007, 09:07 PM
Why do people say this? I have seen that said a lot, but no full explanation of why that should be the case. I know that at level 14 pure class characters do whatever their class is intended to do, better than multiclass, but aren't there cases where the multiclass abilities offset this?

I have a multiclass ranger/rogue and while I am only 6th level thus far, I have seen many characters that have a few rogue levels splashed in. Is this character REALLY going to be that much worse than a pure ranger?

I ask this in seriousness, as my highest character is 10th level, and I have yet to see the "high end" stuff.

It's a famous quote from now disapeared head developer, HSinclair. "If I would have to write a guide for DDO, one of my first advice would be to never ever multiclass." Then, she explains something very true, but is often cut because it is funnier that way.

What HSinclair meant is that, if you multiclass you have more change to be hurt/gimped when they change something in the game. They could let us respec almost everything if they would want, but I don't think they'd let us repick our class. ;) Also, if you multiclass, you may loose on powerful newly released enhancements.

Ron
07-24-2007, 10:13 PM
What HSinclair meant is that, if you multiclass you have more change to be hurt/gimped when they change something in the game. They could let us respec almost everything if they would want, but I don't think they'd let us repick our class. ;) Also, if you multiclass, you may loose on powerful newly released enhancements.

This is true.

My personal opinioin is that multiclass characters can be extremely effective. In fact, the best character builds in the game are multiclass. However, so are the worst. And it's far easier to fall into the latter rather than the former unless you reallly know what you are doing and plan the build out (the character builder helps with this).

I've always thought the first two or three characters a person should make in this game ought to be pure class builds. There's enough of a learning curve to this game without adding in all the inherent complexities of a multiclass build on top of it. Once you get a feel for how the game plays, then you are safe to go ahead and start throwing in some different classes.

And of course, as Ms. Sinclair said, multiclass builds tend to be more vulnerable to development nerfs. I don't think that's anything particularly inherent in the multiclass builds themselves, but rather due to the fact that those people who really know what they are doing know exactly what to take to get the most out of their build with it costing them as little as possible. Unfortunately, those are often the very things that get "toned down" later on. That's exactly what caused the death of gren's "Batman" build, for example.

negative
07-25-2007, 08:49 AM
As far as my own meaning of "don't ever multiclass", it's simple. Some of the other posters have mentioned this somewhat already, but bottomline is, you are 1000x more likely to mess up a multiclass build than a pure class build.

that is to say, it's 1000x times easier to make a pure class build than it is a multiclass build, and that when you mess up or gimp a build, it is much more noticable on a multiclass than a pureclass.

For pure class, as long as you pick the right starting stats (and there is a bit of leeway here) and put your level 4,8,12 stat point into your primary stat, you really can't mess up the build. Feats can be respeced and enhancements can be respeced.

With multiclassing, there is much less leeway on starting stats. I spend a few hours working out my starting stats on any MC build. And every single time you level up, including picking the class to take at level one, there is potential to gimp your character. On my paladin Drakkion Mark VIII, I *HAD* to take my first level as Fighter Class or that build would have not been able to do what I wanted it to do. Think about it, the first level I had to take on my Paladin, was Fighter. That's counter-intuitive and makes it really easy to mess up. There are exponetially more oportunities to screw up, and you really need to plan out all 14 levels, and even some beyond that, to be sure of what you are doing.

I also advice building on the assumption that any rule loopholes in DDO that don't exist in the SRD will get fixed eventually, ie: if you wanted to make a Batman build to get evasion, make sure you can wear light armor, even though previously, when you built the character, you didn't have to.

Bottomline is, its just more complicated, and without knowing who it is you are giving the advice to, the best advice to give is "don't multiclass".

Roguewiz
07-25-2007, 12:08 PM
As stated, the problem with Multiclassing is that you lose out on the higher level abilities. The classes that multiclass the best are

Paladin - 3 levels, gives you: LoH, Smite, Divine Grace, Aura of Good, Immunity to Fear and Disease
Rogue - 2 levels, gives you: Evasion, high skills
Ranger - 2 levels, give you: Bow Strength, Two-Weapon Fighting, Precise Shot
Fighter - 2 Levels, gives you: 2 fighter feats

The rest of the classes don't multiclass well IMO, at least without a good design in mind. For example, a Paladin might MC one level of sorcerer to get more spell points, since most paladins have a high charisma anyways. A Rogue might MC a level of wizard to get flawless use of arcane wands.

Bards and Barbarians, IMO, don't MC well. They have way too many nice abilities that they lose out on. Rangers are the same way, but splashing a ranger isn't bad.

All in all, going pure class or multiclassing, is not detrimental. You can be quite effective eithe way. It all depends on the player.

Crappy Player + Good build, still = crappy player

On another note, don't base your decision off what the Character Planner says. While it is quite accurate, it doesn't take into account what may work for you.

SacramentoSquid
08-02-2007, 04:36 AM
What about multi-classing and caster levels. If i am a level 1 bard and a level 4 sorc, will my spell level for CLW and Naic's be 5, or would they be based on there respective classes. What about spell penetration and DC for saves. Does takeing that one bard level hurt either of those, other than by lowering or delaying my maximum spell level?

DemonMage
08-02-2007, 04:39 AM
Caster level is based upon the class the spell belongs to. So your bard spells would be cast as a level 1, and your Sorc spells as level 4. Same with Spell Pen as it's caster level not character level check.

negative
08-02-2007, 08:43 AM
What about multi-classing and caster levels. If i am a level 1 bard and a level 4 sorc, will my spell level for CLW and Naic's be 5, or would they be based on there respective classes. What about spell penetration and DC for saves. Does takeing that one bard level hurt either of those, other than by lowering or delaying my maximum spell level?

As the above poster said, it will be based on their respective classes. Which makes multiclassing two arcane spell casting classes together pretty pointless. Same with multiclassing two divine spell casting classes, at least spell casting-wise for them (as those classes general do other things worth taking).

So the answer the question, I would say, taking one level of bard on a sorc hurts you a lot. You'll be even farther behind wizards in getting your spells, you'll cast your spells as if you are one level lower, you won't get the highest level of spells available based on the current level cap, and you won't really gain anything from having the bard level. The bard spells will always cast as a level 1 caster, the CLW is negligable (as its casting as a level 1 caster), and the "casting while in light armor" advantage only applies to the Bard spells; so the only interesting thing is the cure wand use.

If you want cure wand use on a Sorc, take two levels of pally, gaining wand use AND super-duper saves because now your CHA bonus is added to your saves. There is probably another class the centergizes well too, but I don't think Bard is one of them.