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RavenStormclaw
07-09-2007, 01:47 PM
I am just now reaching level where some really good crowd control is becoming available. Currently 7th level Sorc. I have been using glitterdust last several days for the blinding effect. Can routinely blind 1/3-1/2 of the mobs. I've asked my groups how its worked for them. Was wanting some feedback. No one has complained either way. Just wondering what the community thought or a suggestion for a better CC spell ...please one I actually have availabe at 7th level ie 3rd or below.

Thanks

Raven

Gimpster
07-09-2007, 01:53 PM
I am just now reaching level where some really good crowd control is becoming available. Currently 7th level Sorc. I have been using glitterdust last several days for the blinding effect. Can routinely blind 1/3-1/2 of the mobs.
Glitterdust is not a great spell. Not worth it for a sorc, I'd say.

The blinding effect is decent- not awesome, because blinded monsters can still hurt you. But it's decent. The big drawback to Glitterdust is the long casting time- but if the increased casting-speed of a sorc makes it workable for you, then go for it (it'll make your character unique, at least)

Rogues should especially like casting Glitterdust, as it gives them free sneak attacks. But if you're in the market for CC, then the prime possibilities are Web and Hypnotism.

Averroes
07-09-2007, 02:05 PM
Glitterdust is not a great spell. Not worth it for a sorc, I'd say.

The blinding effect is decent- not awesome, because blinded monsters can still hurt you. But it's decent. The big drawback to Glitterdust is the long casting time- but if the increased casting-speed of a sorc makes it workable for you, then go for it (it'll make your character unique, at least)

Rogues should especially like casting Glitterdust, as it gives them free sneak attacks. But if you're in the market for CC, then the prime possibilities are Web and Hypnotism.

Blinded monsters can still hurt you, but at a -4 attack penalty and with a 50% miss chance... I prefer glitterdust to web on just about everything but giant skeletons.

And if you run with rogues regularly, the damage increase for them is quite significant.

When you hit 8 you'd also have access to fear -- that gets my vote for most powerful all-around crowd control spell.

Gimpster
07-09-2007, 10:27 PM
Blinded monsters can still hurt you, but at a -4 attack penalty and with a 50% miss chance... I prefer glitterdust to web on just about everything but giant skeletons.
But the time it takes to cast Glitterdust usually means the fight is already over. Web is a fast spell, but Glitterdust is slow.


And if you run with rogues regularly, the damage increase for them is quite significant.
The damage increase is minimal, because rogues are usually getting sneak attacks on almost every attack because they target something attacking someone else.


When you hit 8 you'd also have access to fear -- that gets my vote for most powerful all-around crowd control spell.
1. At level 8 he'll be picking between Phantasmal Killer and Wall of Fire. It's really hard to value Fear above those spells.
2. A whole lot of things are immune to Fear; more than are immune to Web. In particular, things like clerics and wizards are more vulnerable to Web than Fear, and are important to CC.

Aranticus
07-10-2007, 12:03 AM
But the time it takes to cast Glitterdust usually means the fight is already over. Web is a fast spell, but Glitterdust is slow.

hardly anyone who use glitterdust use it as a combat spell. for a sorc i agree that it could take up a valuable spell slot. but for a wiz/brd, glitterdust could be worth the effort. its used most efficiently if you cast it BEFORE the battle, much like how solid fog is used. ie before opening door, prep it with glitterdust. cabal of one is one such quest in which glitterdust can be used to devastating effect (thou i prefer dancing ball but thats different, its a L7 spell)

krud
07-10-2007, 07:17 AM
But the time it takes to cast Glitterdust usually means the fight is already over. Web is a fast spell, but Glitterdust is slow.
A sorc should be able to lay down glitterdust fast enough to affect a fight. Both web and glitterdust are effective, however, with web once a mob breaks free that's it, unless you throw down another web, at least glitterdust's effects stick on the mob through the fight.



The damage increase is minimal, because rogues are usually getting sneak attacks on almost every attack because they target something attacking someone else.
yeah right, ALL rogues play that way. Only the ones who know how to manage aggro will play like that, which is probly less than half. Plus it frees them up so they don't have to stick around the tanks to be effective. Hypno pattern is probably worse than glitterdust in that respect, because we all know tanks NEVER charge in swinging wildly undoing all those nicely laid hypnos and fascinates.

For a level 7 sorc i'd say the best 2nd level cc is still Web, followed by Glitterdust then Hypno pattern. Also remember, you can take the 1st level hypnotize, which will cast way faster than hypno pattern, and also works nicley in groups who will work with you.

Averroes
07-10-2007, 08:27 AM
But the time it takes to cast Glitterdust usually means the fight is already over. Web is a fast spell, but Glitterdust is slow.


The damage increase is minimal, because rogues are usually getting sneak attacks on almost every attack because they target something attacking someone else.


1. At level 8 he'll be picking between Phantasmal Killer and Wall of Fire. It's really hard to value Fear above those spells.
2. A whole lot of things are immune to Fear; more than are immune to Web. In particular, things like clerics and wizards are more vulnerable to Web than Fear, and are important to CC.

I'm usually ahead of the rest of the party with my wizard -- so no issues with the cast speed, other than trying to stay in the air long enough that it doesn't slow me down. If things die before your spells land, running ahead of everyone else is a great way to fix that. In many quests, it isn't even likely to get you killed...

And I've never met a rogue who got more than 3 sneak attacks in a row on a target that wasn't a) blind, b) intimidated, or c) being attacked by a barbarian. If I'm worried about the DPS the rogue(s) in my group is putting out, I probably don't have a barbarian.


As for PK... I stopped carrying it when they added the second save, and only pick it up now for special occasions. There were a couple months there before the level cap raise to 14 where I had no instant kill spells (well, other than hold monster and flesh to stone...). In my estimation, PK doesn't let your group do anything it couldn't otherwise do; fear does.

The only things that are immune to fear are undead and certain evil outsiders. Generally, anything living can be feared, and once feared will stay that way for 2-ish minutes.


In any case, this is getting pretty far off-topic. It's a matter of opinion, and mine is that most casters would benefit greatly from branching out beyond the usual half-dozen or so spells.

Symar-FangofLloth
07-10-2007, 12:06 PM
I use glitterdust all the time on my bard, the blinding is worth it in my opinion, and it's a spell that actually affects undead! Of course, I'mm dealing with the very limited spell list of a bard here, and I can't say how it matches up with wizard/sorceror spells because I don't play those.

LeLoric
07-10-2007, 01:39 PM
Coming from a rogue player the blinding effect of the glitterdust is very much appreciated it allows me to start attacking things on my own or in my case switch from sirrocco to a more damaging weapon since i already got the blind effect and the -4 to hit and 50% miss chance is huge also for all members. If more casters carried this i wouldnt have to pretty much use sirrocco exclusively. As far as aggro a rogue will take aggro with several sneak attacks even with a barb in the party if they are specced for it including all the sneak attack dmg enhancements.

People are always complaining about being hit too much on high level elite content and that ac no longer matters which i find to be ridiculous as even if a 45-50 ac is getting hit 75-80% as opposed to 95% that heavy fort robe wearers take because they gave up on all ac that is still limiting dmg more than any dr avail in the game. Anything that affects to hit is going to even further affect this discrepency. So yeah if you got a bunch of heavy fort wearing barbs in the party putting a constant strain on the clerics mana dont use this spell but if you got a group that still respects ac and tactics then by all means use glitterdust its one of the best.

Azuremane
07-10-2007, 02:38 PM
I use glitterdust all the time on my bard, the blinding is worth it in my opinion, and it's a spell that actually affects undead! Of course, I'mm dealing with the very limited spell list of a bard here, and I can't say how it matches up with wizard/sorceror spells because I don't play those.

QFT...It is a staple of my spell line up. Last longer then Hypnotic pattern and allows the melee to swing like mad men or women.

RavenStormclaw
07-10-2007, 03:16 PM
Thanks,

This confirms I will keep using glitterdust. Casting time with a Sorc isn't bad and when I can get the groups to slow down it works well. Hmm which makes me wonder if I should take this and finally do stealthy repo ....maybe will try that tonight.

Raven

rimble
07-10-2007, 03:17 PM
Thanks,

This confirms I will keep using glitterdust. Casting time with a Sorc isn't bad and when I can get the groups to slow down it works well. Hmm which makes me wonder if I should take this and finally do stealthy repo ....maybe will try that tonight.

Raven

hehe, Stealthy Repo...fear my Kobold Prophet army!

WolfSpirit
07-10-2007, 03:28 PM
QFT...It is a staple of my spell line up. Last longer then Hypnotic pattern and allows the melee to swing like mad men or women.

Yes indeed, I use Glitter all the time. I never use Hypnotic pattern because of the real life blinding effects. Can't see a **** thing through it all.

Love it for Mephits and hiding mobs because they can't hide from anyone. So its an area effect blind with see invisible thrown in! Can't go wrong!

But my personal favorite low level CC would be Hypnotism. If your CHA/INT or what you need is high enough, there isn't much to resist this. Throw in a penetration item for more depth!
And the low sp cost and fast cast lets you jam it out there 2 or 3 times before the melees even close to range. This guarantees getting all the mobs, even the stubborn ones!

Talon_Moonshadow
07-13-2007, 04:05 PM
I like Glitterdust, but haven't used it in awhile because it is so God aweful slow to cast.
Works best when cast before opening a door.
One intersting note is that it seems to blind Golems, which are immune to almost all magic (web works also, but golems break out quick)(use both!)

Ghoste
07-13-2007, 04:15 PM
I dont care for glitterdust much. The monsters all move around so much that it often only has a short effect on them. Cant do that if they get stuck in a web, or hypnotized.

cforce
07-13-2007, 10:34 PM
Glitterdust is pure win, plain and simple.

First of all: if everything is dead before you can cast it, your party should be running harder content!

Second, try this the next time you're bored and waiting for a party. Load Blindness and go find a single mob in a wilderness area. Let him poke at you for a bit, and take note of how fast you're taking incoming damage. Now, Blind him, and pay close attention to the difference.

Thing is, blindness (the state) is not *just* a 50% miss chance -- it also affects mob pathing, which results in them frequently not even facing in the right direction! Between these two factors, the "real" miss chance is much greater.

As such, Glitterdust can kind of "factor out" all the melee mobs in an entire quest, when done by a caster with a high DC and folks who are willing to use tactics and pull in and out of Glitterdust.

Mousey
07-22-2007, 05:34 PM
But my personal favorite low level CC would be Hypnotism.

For real. It's solely because of that spell that a group of level 5's (plus one level 3) kicked *** in Stormcleave. Okay, so we wiped twice in the final fight, but that's because we couldn't get our shield block together quick enough. Still got 9k xp.

I'm not overly fond of Glitterdust unless I can sneak in and lay it down before the battle begins or we have someone pulling aggro to us. We use that tactic in Red Willow, mainly. Lay down Glitterdust and Web, have a ranger or rogue take potshots at the mobs and pull them to us, hit them with Hypnotism...easy kills. And the squishy bard stays in a safe place through it all. The key is making sure that they're going to stay within the area of effect long enough for there to be any benefit from the spell. If they run right through it, it's a waste of sp.

Mindspat
07-24-2007, 03:19 PM
I am just now reaching level where some really good crowd control is becoming available. Currently 7th level Sorc. I have been using glitterdust last several days for the blinding effect. Can routinely blind 1/3-1/2 of the mobs. I've asked my groups how its worked for them. Was wanting some feedback. No one has complained either way. Just wondering what the community thought or a suggestion for a better CC spell ...please one I actually have availabe at 7th level ie 3rd or below.

Thanks

Raven

I play a lvl 14 Sorcerer as my only character. Glitterdust is a great spell when combined with any mobilization deBuff; excluding Web.

If you're going to play with Glitterdust in your arsnel know what the primary purpose of the spell is, damage mitigation. Using it will prevent numerous hits while minimizing the healing required thus saving many spell points for the REAL fight!

Using Glitterdust, cloudkill and fog can easily allow a caster to solo-kite most mobs.

Anyone who says Glitterdust is worhtless is at best a mediocre caster.

As for the level of the OP's caster, I couldn't say if it'd be helpful. Afterall, everything depends on your playstyle. :)