PDA

View Full Version : Adding Assists to the Kill Count



Kindoki
07-07-2007, 06:57 AM
Just an idea....

Like many sports, why don't we just have a box that counts "assists" next to the one that keeps the kill count? Everytime someone does damage to a mob, they get it counted as an assist, even though the person who does the killing blow gets the kill. I realize this doesn't take into account the intangibles of healing and buffing, but wouldn't that remove some of the "ego" from the kill count and perhaps encourage a little more team play? It could even take into account anything that affects, not just actual damage, the mob; thereby bringing in cc.

Elfvyra
07-07-2007, 10:00 AM
Removing the names from the kill count and just giving numbers, so we know when we get close to Conquest, would remove 99% of the ego.... ;)

MasterofDungeons
07-07-2007, 10:11 AM
Removing the names from the kill count and just giving numbers, so we know when we get close to Conquest, would remove 99% of the ego.... ;)

Absolutely, I have never played a pure fighter but just started one and have had several other fighters tell me to not help them kill a tougher opponent or accuse me of trying to "steal" their kills. I was under the impression we were trying to take the dungeon as a group...

Uska
07-07-2007, 10:33 AM
Better idea is just having party kill count

Kindoki
07-07-2007, 01:19 PM
There is some enjoyment out of having individual kill count, and a sense of competition is not without merit. Just, as it is now, when it gets to the point of detracting from the overall enjoyment of most people, then something needs to be done to mitigate. That is why I suggested adding something, instead of taking something away. Though I do certainly see the benefits of a group kill count.

As for the person who doesn't like anyone else to help them, so they don't lose kills...well, they are the main problem and I don't feel bad for letting them die and failing to rez them... :D

dogsday
07-07-2007, 06:22 PM
For me, the indevidual kill count gives me a refrance point as to how hard I'm hitting in comparison to my guildy buddies. Granted, it's NOT the best means for determining how hard I'm hitting but I keep an eye on it to see my progress and it gives me a rough idea of whether or not I should ask for help to improve my out put. It's nothing I take seriously but it's one of many factors I use to judge [U]myself[U]. I'd hate to see it disapear because imature players are using it as an emotional weapon.
Luckly, I've never heard anyone be so crule as to say "don't help kill big mobs" cause that's just a sad desplay of their own insecurity and unwarrented. This game is a group effort and that's what makes it fun. Strive for self improvement to help the group, not for self glorification.

CaitMonster
07-07-2007, 06:28 PM
There is some enjoyment out of having individual kill count, and a sense of competition is not without merit. Just, as it is now, when it gets to the point of detracting from the overall enjoyment of most people, then something needs to be done to mitigate. That is why I suggested adding something, instead of taking something away. Though I do certainly see the benefits of a group kill count.

As for the person who doesn't like anyone else to help them, so they don't lose kills...well, they are the main problem and I don't feel bad for letting them die and failing to rez them... :D

Whoops... I forgot to what? as you here them yelling obscenities in voice chat. or typing them. Clerics have power.

Egos happen and lets face it, this game is gonna be full of them. I agree adding assists would help.

And you know what for casters who CC, or clerics that heal and cc. You can always just pat yourself on the back, and say for every kill they got I got one too. Just turn it sunny side up.

MeNorel
07-07-2007, 07:05 PM
Absolutely, I have never played a pure fighter but just started one and have had several other fighters tell me to not help them kill a tougher opponent or accuse me of trying to "steal" their kills. I was under the impression we were trying to take the dungeon as a group...


I simply love these types of players. :D If one shows up in a group I am in with my main ranger, I double my efforts to out kill and "steal his kills" just to see how much a child the person can really be. Competoin is the best thing that can happed not a group as long as it does not bring stupid mistakes that cost the group as a whole.

I did have a group that I joined when Men was a lvl 11 ranger, and was told by the party leader that he was going to be the killer and I was there just for barkskin and buffs. I smiled to myself seeing the group make up and simply shurgged ok I needed the favor for the quest. I buffed up the all mighty tanker and followed along simply plinking away in the distance with my trusty silverbow, the quest was Thernal South.

Everything was moving along smoothly easiest run I had had in awhile and we get to the locked gate, well the tank busts through the gate and knowing what was coming I readied with Many Shot and buffed up the rest of the group. Well about 3 seconds after he turned the corner and fell back to the gate to fight he was DOA. I calmly came across the mic with a grin as long as a football feild "Would the mighty fighter like some help now?" As I released ManyShot the rest of the group took out the remaining mob and we could take the time to rez the head strong now dead fighter. I got the bigest kick out of imagining the player virutally steaming as by the end of the quest and 4 deaths later he was actually second in the kill count to myself and the other fighter that tied for first.

Situations like these are the only time kill counts ever make a hill of beans to me.

Serverdown
07-07-2007, 07:18 PM
90% of bad players are kill counters, especially casters who burn sp, recall out and get spell points for another finger of death fest. It is highly annoying and EXTREMELY pointless. I have even had casters refuse to cast haste on the group because the melee in the group had a higher kill count. Then at the end of the quest they brag about always having the highes amount of kills in the group, when 99% of their kills are PKs or FoDs that were casted when the mob had 1 hit left.

MeNorel
07-07-2007, 07:51 PM
90% of bad players are kill counters, especially casters who burn sp, recall out and get spell points for another finger of death fest. It is highly annoying and EXTREMELY pointless. I have even had casters refuse to cast haste on the group because the melee in the group had a higher kill count. Then at the end of the quest they brag about always having the highes amount of kills in the group, when 99% of their kills are PKs or FoDs that were casted when the mob had 1 hit left.

That sounds like a caster that would quickly find himself out of any group I was heading up, the minute he/she refused to pass out some group buffs, and acutally thought the group should wait around while he/she recalled for manna. Although I have been with many casters that can handle both ususally extended buffs before the quest started recalled for mana and provided haste for the party along with a high kill count with SP left over by the end of the quest or the next shrine. I love it when a team works together but as soon as one player starts spelling it teIm, away he must go.:D

Cowdenicus
07-08-2007, 12:23 AM
90% of bad players are kill counters, especially casters who burn sp, recall out and get spell points for another finger of death fest. It is highly annoying and EXTREMELY pointless. I have even had casters refuse to cast haste on the group because the melee in the group had a higher kill count. Then at the end of the quest they brag about always having the highes amount of kills in the group, when 99% of their kills are PKs or FoDs that were casted when the mob had 1 hit left.

BUY POTS. I am not your buff bot, as a cleric I perform MAJOR Surgery. You can take care of your own boo boos. You have 8 negative levels, I got your back. You have 2 points of stat damage, well if I am feeling generous I will heal or cure you.

Note: this is not a generalization, this is for those (mostly tank types) that like to zerg ahead and never can pull out a pot or a wand (or in the case that they cant use a wand, hand one over) and expect me to play nursemaid.

Guess what, that blue bar is MY blue bar, and I will use it as I best see fit. If you dont care about your HP enough to heal yourself between fights, dont expect anything from me.

CaitMonster
07-08-2007, 03:36 AM
BUY POTS. I am not your buff bot, as a cleric I perform MAJOR Surgery. You can take care of your own boo boos. You have 8 negative levels, I got your back. You have 2 points of stat damage, well if I am feeling generous I will heal or cure you.

Note: this is not a generalization, this is for those (mostly tank types) that like to zerg ahead and never can pull out a pot or a wand (or in the case that they cant use a wand, hand one over) and expect me to play nursemaid.

Guess what, that blue bar is MY blue bar, and I will use it as I best see fit. If you dont care about your HP enough to heal yourself between fights, dont expect anything from me.

Cleric rule #1 los or sol. if they don't get it then you know what.... let Darwin take care of them. Wands or pots are good things, and being cleric friendly never hurts.

I get where you are coming from. Having UMD as a rogue can be a curse cause your the next one they yell at if the cleric or bard isn't around.

If zergaholics who can't take care of themselves die. just /laugh. repeat cleric rule #1. besides I love to see the reaction when the cleric does just that. It's great.

Neferi
07-08-2007, 04:34 AM
If I get a high kill count, I attribute it to the group being good and working well together and letting us melee do what we're there to do. I love casters who buff everyone and save their spell points for hastes and crowd control instead of trying to one shot things only. I can't stand being in a group with a caster that runs ahead trying to kill everything and then expects the melee to bail him out when he gets attacked.

I don't know if they're going for kills, but it doesn't tend to make the run faster or more fun. I try to step in and help people if they're in trouble, but if I see a caster being careless and going for pks on things that resist all the time when the melee could more effectively take them out, I don't bother to try to get the aggro off him. Maybe not showing individual kill counts would help, but I think a lot of casters would still love the one-shot stuff as much as other people love their vorpals, regardless of how effective or useful they actually are for the group in a given situation. I think that people with something to prove will just turn to other things to feed their egoes unfortunately.

Belfalcon
07-08-2007, 09:23 AM
all the kill count dose is make for bad pulls. rushing on kills and zerging.
for "some" players.

Zorth
07-09-2007, 12:13 PM
We care about the counts with our tanks, its just that simple. Get over it already! Yes it matters and I want the most kills! So there!

Riddikulus
07-09-2007, 12:20 PM
90% of bad players are kill counters, especially casters who burn sp, recall out and get spell points for another finger of death fest. It is highly annoying and EXTREMELY pointless. I have even had casters refuse to cast haste on the group because the melee in the group had a higher kill count. Then at the end of the quest they brag about always having the highes amount of kills in the group, when 99% of their kills are PKs or FoDs that were casted when the mob had 1 hit left.
90% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Anyway... I'm sure a fairly good percentage of good players are kill counters as well.

IMO to "fix" this, just count total HP damage done rather than mobs killed. That will equalize things for casters who PK 1 HP mobs and melee "kill stealing" and would be a lot more relevant number.

Miccay
07-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Kill count? Is that when I fail to keep fighters alive and they die? Yea, I hate that...very embarrasing for a 14 cleric;)

I never see ego when I play other than a bit of funnin when the rogue has more kills than the tank. I guess if I did I'd stop healing the toon with the ego and ruin my kill count...LOL

Shecky
07-09-2007, 12:48 PM
90% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Anyway... I'm sure a fairly good percentage of good players are kill counters as well.

IMO to "fix" this, just count total HP damage done rather than mobs killed. That will equalize things for casters who PK 1 HP mobs and melee "kill stealing" and would be a lot more relevant number.

You're about 87.8% right. :D

Put in HP damage dealt and HP damage received. Divide #2 into #1. Divide resultant number by number of that character's deaths. Make that ratio the number beside each character who has been in melee combat. Whole lotta changes would follow. ;)

I've never really understood the "gotta top the kill count" mentality. I guess that's because I'm willing to shift my fighter's focus on the current needs of the group - more than willing to use paralyzer + Cleave, cursespew to let others disrupt/paralyze/banish, or Trip/Stun as quickly as possible, but I'm also able to switch over to DPS at need and perform well. Then again, I've always preferred the jack-of-all-trades melee character (I don't mean the multiclass fighter/rogue/UMD monkey/etc., I mean the melee who can fight in any kind of melee), so I suppose I'll never understand the "need" for "competition". To me, success is when the group as a whole goes through the dungeon smoothly, efficiently and with as few breakdowns as possible - that means EVERYONE is doing his job and doing it well in the context of the group.

There's just no NEED for a kill/DPS/whatever count for individuals. It's caused trouble more often than it's helped in my experience.

DaGSO
07-09-2007, 12:54 PM
I do not like the kill count except when I am trying to erk someone the wrong way. I kill no matter what. Although I do love to belittle the tanks when my cleric has the top of the kill count (destruction is a good thing). The number of kills is good to assist you in getting Onslaught.

Bengalih
07-09-2007, 12:57 PM
I really like the idea of showing total HP damage dealt in addition to kill count. I think those two numbers together can give you a much bigger picture. A caster may show with 70% of the damage done, but a low kill count.

I actually like the kill count, and look at it quite abit. I don't necessarily try to get the high count but it is interesting to see how you fare to other players.

For example, I ran Trial by fire on elite this weekend with my 2rgr/9ftr stat damager. My g/f was using her 11 wizzy. We were with 3 other tanks and a cleric.

It was only my second time running (1st was with my caster) and my g/f had never run it before. I believe one other fighter was lvl 10 or 11, but the rest of the group was at least 2 level above us. To be honest, I was worried I might not contriubte well to the group (especially since I hadn't played that toon in a while).

We ran the quest by running through alot of areas. I don't know the quest too well yet, but we basically had 1 or two big spider fights and maybe a handful of smaller troll engagements.

When all was said and done the wizzy had the high kill count (around 17 I think) mostly due to Wall of Fire. I was somewhere around 13 or 14. The next in line were two fighters tied at 8 and the last fighter around 4. I don't think the cleric had any, as he was busy healing all of us (and doing a nice job).

I'm not a kill stealer... I wasn't hopping in pulling for the last strike. For the most part, I was either hacking at an enemy solo, or we were all surrounding one at a time. Because of my halfling's size I couldn't always see the damage I was doing, but I saw every time I rolled a crit (which was about 1 in 4 or 5) their health bars would drop sizeably. I was dual wielding puncturing weapons (one with holy enhancement I believe).

I don't know how much damage I did in the end, but we all fought along the same guidelines, and I walked away with a kill count close to double the other fighters. BTW, I know one was using a paralyzer, so that was probably why his kill count would have been lower. Obviously, his paralyzing helped us all out.

I am not saying this out of ego, or dislike of any player. The group was great (and if you are reading this, thanks for the run!). I am saying that the kill count was very beneficial to me because I don't think the numbers could have been that skewed if I wasn't doing a good job to contribute.

The kill count showed me that I did make a difference and wasn't being carried by the rest of the group (who were 2+ levels above).

So it's not always ego that drives us to have a good Kill Count, sometimes we just want to know that we are contributing well to the party!

Freeman
07-09-2007, 01:18 PM
I like having the kill counter. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to tease you mercilessly when my bard is beating your fighter/ranger/paladin/barbarian in it. Just another way I "motivate" my party members to do better ;)

Polunius
07-09-2007, 03:09 PM
Kill count only tells who had the last blow, nothing else. Finishing the quest is more imprtant in the end.

Now would you rather have the Devs working on these little things like kill count or additional content. For me its new content and game fixes and not something like damage percentage that has no bearing on anything in the game.

Sure its fun to tease others in a group about the kill count but most people realize that it does not matter much. So show me content before adding all this coding for something that has no importance in the game.

Bengalih
07-09-2007, 03:26 PM
Kill count only tells who had the last blow, nothing else. Finishing the quest is more imprtant in the end.

Now would you rather have the Devs working on these little things like kill count or additional content. For me its new content and game fixes and not something like damage percentage that has no bearing on anything in the game.

Sure its fun to tease others in a group about the kill count but most people realize that it does not matter much. So show me content before adding all this coding for something that has no importance in the game.

Agreed...for the most part. I wouldn't say statistics had NO importance. As some players (even non-ego based) are interested in this.

But hey, since when do we expect anything we write here to actually get implemented? It's wishful thinking anways.

And, to add, the people making new content aren't the same that would be working on Kill count. Once the engine is in place, they basically are "Designers" who plan the layout and placement of objects in a dungeon. They don't need a coder for that. If they want a named bugbear with a CR 8, they don't need to program it, they just choose options like CR level, name, and maybe someone in the art department makes some new clothes for the guy.

One would hope that the game development hasn't been reduced to just this type of new "Content" but that they are making engine/ruleset changes as well that will enhance the overall experience.

But you're right, there are quite a few things I'd rather see implemented first then enhanced stat reporting.