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Gorby
07-04-2007, 12:40 AM
How to wreck the Warforged Titan beyond repair.
by Rice Pipeweed of Adar

This guide will focus specifically on the Warforged Titan raid encounter. I dont plan on detailing the Twilight Forge dungeon, but purely the 'Twilight Forge Core'. My small guild and I on Adar have spent many months perfecting this, we run it on average 4-5 times a week and very rarely with a party above 4 people.

Party make-up:

Really, it doesn't matter. I've beaten it with a group of 2 fighters and I've beaten it with a nearly full multi-guild group.

Clerics - If you're the type of player who won't even venture into Waterworks without a dedicated cleric, then you will definately want to have at least one with you. If you are experienced enough where you regularly don't need a cleric watching over you, then you surely won't need one here as well. Ideally, every character in the group should be able to heal themselves. Potions, Wands and Heal scrolls will be your best friend here as you WILL take damage, and likely lots of it. If you have more than 140 HP, It will be hard for the Titan to take you out in one shot. If the majority of your group cannot self-heal then Clerics are a definate must.

Fighters/Barbarians - Argueably the least effective of the classes in this raid, primarily because the encounter does not revolve around high DPS, combined with their inablity to self-heal rapidly. The advantage of these classes here would be their high hit-points to soak up a few hits, which makes them good pillar droppers. High AC will not help you avoid the Titan's melee attacks unless you are in the 60+ range.

Paladins - Always good to have here. Make sure you have Deathward memorized and a UMD high enough to use Heal/Raise Dead scrolls specially if you are lacking a cleric.

Rangers - In my opinion, the right ranger will be the saving grace of your group. Range attacks are very important here. They can also self-heal fairly reliably (alternating wands/potions), and can cast Freedom of Movement.

Wizards/Sorcerers - The primary responsibility of casters here will be damaging the Titan on the first and last 20% of his health. During the pillar/laser portion of the quest, concentrate on removing the Ancient Warforged from the ground floor, and keeping the pillar dropper hasted.

Rogues/Bards - As there are no traps in the encounter, these classes can take up the role of healer (Assuming UMD), And make excellent crystal-runners with proper buffs as a sneaky type can move into Warforged Room 1 and take a crystal without breaking stealth and stirring up the Ancient Warforged.

Spells to bring with you:

Freedom of Movement - This spell is important to avoid the Hold Person effect of the 'laser-strings' attuned to the crystal carrier.
Deathward - This spell is nice to have to avoid the Inflict Critical Wounds effect of the 'laser-strings' attuned to the crystal carrier.
Haste - A hasted character (with 20%+ striding) can outrun the Titan and strafe out of the way of his cannon.
Resist Energy: 20 points of lightning resistance will negate the lightning balls traversing the catwalks. Ancient Warforged do frost/acid damage on their melee attacks.
MM/Scorching Ray - Direct Damage to the Titan.

Dungeon Layout:

There are six primary areas to the instance.

1) Ground Floor. The floor you are on when you enter the instance. Anyone on this floor is vulnerable to the Titan's melee attacks so you want to be here as little as possible. If you are not dropping the pillar bottoms or sporting a 60+ AC you probably want to be somewhere else.

2) Laser Control Deck. Directly above the zone-in area. Contains the Crystal Assimilator and the Laser Control Panel. Accessed from the ladder to the west of the zone-in, or from jumping down from the catwalks.

3) Warforged Room 1. The room directly behind the Titan's starting position. This room contains the first Crystal Generator, and three machines that create/spawn Ancient Warforged. Players in here that are against the south wall can take melee damage from the titan.

4) The Shelf. AKA second floor. Accessed by climbing a pair of ladders on the east side of the room.

5) The Catwalks. AKA third floor. This is the grid on the very top of the dungeon. After the second laser hit on the titan, this area becomes electrified with travelling lightning orbs. Accessed from the Northwest side of the Shelf (run the whole way around) only after the Titan is activated.

6) Warforged Room 2. Accessed from the catwalks and containing the second Crystal Generator. Accessible only after the second successful laser hit.

The Basics:

Of course your primary and only goal in the encounter is to wreck the Warforged Titan. There are 3 parts to doing this. Once the Titan initially becomes active, he is vulnerable to all melee, ranged and spell attacks. You will want to damage him down 20% of his total health until you get the DM text, "Protective shields spring up around the Titan's upper torso!". Getting this message means you can no longer use traditional methods to damage him and must now knock him over with the pillars, then fire the laser directly on top of him. Once you have done that 6 times with 6 different pillars, you will get a DM text stating that his shields have come down. At this point, he will have the last 20% of his health remaining and will again become vulnerable to normal attacks/spells and you will be able to kill him off.

The Pillars:

There are 8 pillars to use in the encounter. For a succesful win, you'll need to land 6 pillars on him, followed by 6 succesful laser shots. Which means if you lose more than 2 pillars, its time to recall as he can no longer be tripped/cometfalled/greased. The pillars do not become damageable until the titan is activated, so you can't setup the pillars ahead of time. You'll have to do it under fire.

There are 2 parts to every pillar, a top and bottom. These both have independent health bars and in order to knock a pillar down you will need to destroy both portions. If the bottom pillar is destroyed while the top is still intact, the pillar will remain standing. If this happens, the bottom pillar will fall in the direction of the last succesful hit (not necessarily the killing blow) at the time the top portion is destroyed. Hitting a dead bottom pillar from a different angle while it's top is intact, will change the direction of it's fall. Due to the dungeon design, all pillars will need to be dropped diagonally onto the laser's target. If a pillar was to fall on top of you, be prepared to take a huge amount of damage. Standing too close to a falling pillar even if you're on the opposite side of it's path will act as if it fell on top of you so be sure to stand a couple feet back when you drop it.

The direction a pillar will fall is outward from your position. If you are attacking a pillar and facing north, it will fall north as if you were to push it over from one side.

Each pillar half is technically an immobile mob. This means that they cannot be hit by other mob's attacks (e.g. the Titan or Ancient Warforged), or by other pillars. Their type is 'Construct' so construct bane weapons work well here, and they cannot be critically hit. They do not have any damage reduction so any weapon will work. The only way to damage them is with melee and ranged, so spells will be totally ineffective against them. Also, make sure nobody in your party summons any pets as they will go after the pillars as if they were mobs, and cause you to shamefully fail. This goes for Charm as well. You don't want to be that wizard. Using a two-handed weapon is also not advised, because if you hit with a glancing blow on the killing hit, you will not be able to control it's direction.

The Laser:

Upon entering the encounter, you will notice a bright red dot in the north center of the room. The red dot initially looks like an arrow pointing to the West, but ignore that fact, it doesnt mean anything. Directly above this red dot is a large conical red and black device attached to the underside of the catwalks. This is the laser. When fired, it will fire directly down onto the red dot.

Before you can move or fire the laser, you will need a power crystal. To obtain a crystal, you will need to double click on a Crystal Generator. There are 2 of these in the encounter. The first generator is in Warforged Room 1 on the bottom floor, and the other is in Warforged Room 2 and accessed through the catwalks after the second succesful Titan hit. Therefore, only the Crystal Generator in Warforged Room 1 is accessible at the start of the encounter. For now, your party can only have one crystal at a time. Also there is no definate amopunt of time that you can hold a crystal for, it does not expire as long as it is not inside the Assimilator.

Once you are carrying a crystal, you will need to bring it to the Laser Control Deck. At this point you will notice that anybody carrying a crystal will be bombarded by tiny 'laser strings' coming from the small round objects on the walls, and the underside of the catwalks. If you are on top of the catwalks while carrying a crystal, this effect will not happen. These 'laser strings' have three effects. Anyone hit by them, whether carrying a crystal or not will randomly have to save versus Hold Person/Slow, or Inflict Critical Wounds. Because of this, anyone planning on carrying a crystal, or being near a crystal carrier will need to have both Deathward and Freedom of Movement on them. The third effect that the 'laser strings' have are to slowly heal any Ancient Warforged they come in contact with. It's our theory that this comes into play on the Titan himself as well, and is the reason that the Titan will sometimes take 7 succesful hits to bring his shields down instead of 6. If you are carrying a crystal to the deck, do your best to steer clear from the big guy. Also note that while you are on the laser control deck, you are still completly vulnerable to his cannon and melee attacks just as if you were on the ground next to him.

There are times when the crystal carrier may no longer want to have the crystal, such as switching out a laser operator due to aggro situations, or maybe someone is bringing a crystal to the deck for the operator, or if your freedom of movement spell expires, etc. If you drag the crystal from your inventory onto the screen as if you were going to destroy it, it will drop to your feet and will be available for anyone else to pick up. Gravity does not effect it, so don't drop it mid-air or try to drop it down from the catwalks.

There are 15 different positions that the laser can be in, as designated in the crude chart below. To move the laser around the underside of the catwalks, you will need to place a crystal in the Crystal Assimilator. This is the large round object that takes up 2/3rds of the control deck. The assimilator will turn an orange color and the entire party will recieve the DM text, "The Crystal Assimilator blazes with fresh power!". At this point, double-clicking the directional arrows on the laser control panel will allow you to move the laser one step at a time. You can make as many moves as you have time to, and also fire the laser during the duration that the laser is powered up. In it's default position, you are able to knock 4 different pillars diagonally onto the red dot. Because of this, its a good place to start since you wont have use your first crystal to move it.


x--x--x
..o..o..
x--x--x
..o..o..
x--x--x
..o..o..
x--1--x
..o..o..
x--x--x

x = possible laser position
o = pillar
1 = default laser position

The time that you have to fire the laser, from the time that the assimilator is powered up is about one minute. You will need to drop the pillar on the Titan, then double-click on the large round button located in the middle of the directional arrows to fire. You can have as many attempts at firing the laser as you want, you are not limited to 8 shots. Any player hit by the laser will take a substantial amount of damage.


Titan Aggro Management:

I want to take a minute to talk about the Titan's aggro. This is the most challenging part of the encounter, and if you can learn the Titan's aggro behavior then you can master this, and therefore master the quest. Pre Mod-4, The Titan had completley random aggro. It was random on who he aggroed, and how long that person would hold his aggro. Usually he would switch targets every few seconds and could become very difficult to control, especially with a large party. Since the new AI update, the big guy will now lock onto one party member, and that person will hold his aggro for an extended amount of time, or until that person dies, whichever comes first. With a smaller party its pretty simple to tell who he has targetted since he will be on that person like peanut butter on jelly. If he follows you around the instance, swinging his fists and shooting multiple cannon shots directly at you, then you've probably got aggro. When the Titan fires his cannon, he will shoot a barrage of 4-5 blasts at his target, and then 1 individual blast at a couple random people. If you are the target of 4-5 cannon shots at the same time, and nobody is near you, then it's pretty safe to say you have aggro. Any party member who comes within striking distance, however, will be the victim of his hammer/melee attack. After he recovers from the melee attack, he will continue on attacking his previous targetted player. If you are the designated pillar dropper, or laser operator and also the one with aggro, then you will probably want to give your position to somebody else until his aggro changes off you. A good way to establish who has aggro is to spread your party out along the shelf and see which one he goes to since he will try to move into melee range with that person.


WALKTHROUGH

Starting the Encounter:

Once your party has used the final shrine in the Twilight Forge, and stepped through the lift to the Core, all party members should move forward beyond the red triangle. Make sure no-one is left behind, since anyone in the zone-in area, or the previous instance will be locked out of the entire encounter via a force barrier once the Titan is activated. Also note that when you enter, you are facing south so be careful when calling directions to your team.

It's a good idea to designate the two important positions of laser operator, and pillar dropper before the chaos ensues to eliminate confusion. It's best to have a high HP member to drop the pillars, and a non-healer to fire the laser. Both players should have voice chat to communicate their status.

This encounter is not timed so if you'd like to look around the dungeon before activating the Titan, you're probably safe to do so. It's been my experience however, that the Titan is more likely to bug and become completly invincible if he is hit by range attacks or if any party members climb the ladders before he becomes active. Once you are ready to start, you can activate the Titan by simply walking up to him. Our usual procedure is to send one person up to him to activate him first, and then we hit the ladders and open fire on him.

The First 20%:

Once somebody comes within striking distance of the Titan, the entire party will recieve the DM text, "The Warforged Titan shudders to life!". The Titan will start his activation, which takes about 4-5 seconds where he is vulnerable, but not attacking, so if you want to get a few swings in here then run away, you can. At this point, your party should be working him down with melee, ranged and spells. After you have taken down 20% of his health, you will recieve the DM Text, "Protective shields spring up around the Titan's upper torso!". At this point he becomes completly invulnerable to all melee, ranged and spells. This means you cannot gain his aggro by damaging him. If you have an experienced enough party you can skip the next step and start working on the pillars now if you haven't already done so.

Move into Warforged Room 1:

I don't recommend that anybody but the crystal carrier goes in here, but if most party members are inexperienced with this quest, it might be a good idea in order to mitigate damage. The barrier to Warforged Room 1 will come down when the Titan is activated. Any players inside this room, and out of the Titan's line of sight will be safe from the his cannon attacks, however his melee attacks will reach through the walls closest to him, so stay on the north side. Once inside this room, you will need to kill the continually spawning Ancient Warforged. Lay down some solid fog and break out your Smiters. While your party is safe from the Titan in here, the rangers and tanks should come out and start working on the pillars. It's very important that anybody inside this room vacates previous to the second sucessful Titan hit, as it will close off and trap in anybody inside until after the fourth succesful hit.

Setup the pillars:

To setup the pillars to drop with minimal effort, go ahead and kill off all of the pillar tops completly. If you have a ranger in your party with the Improved Precise Shot feat, they can stand on the catwalks and target the far pillar, shooting through 4 at a time to finish off the tops quickly. When a pillar half is destroyed, the attacker will recieve the message 'You killed Pillar." in their combat log. With the pillar tops destroyed, start working the bottom pillars down to about 5% of their health. Be careful not to kill them off completly, and dont have more than one person working each pillar at a time. Once you have killed off all tops and left each bottom at 5%, the only person on the ground floor should be the designated pillar dropper. Make sure he remains hasted and has refreshed deathward/FoM.

Setup the laser:

While the party is working on pillars, one person with Deathward/FoM should take the first crystal from the generator and proceed to the laser control deck. If you plan on moving the laser from it's default position, go ahead and power up the crystal assimilator, then move it to your desired position. Once the laser is in place, tell everyone to stay clear and fire the laser off. This will spawn a new crystal in the generator (designated by it's glowing bright orange and blue) which you can then take back to the control deck so you are ready to fire. Be sure to announce to your party that the laser is in position and you are ready to fire.

Position the Titan on the red dot:

The next step will be to move the Titan on top of the laser target. The only way to accomplish this is to establish which party member has aggro. A very succesful tactic is to have all party members who are not dropping the pillar or firing the laser move up to the catwalks, and on top of the laser itself. That way, when the Titan moves in to melee range on his target, he will be directly underneath them, and therefore directly under the laser. Be sure to spread out when you are up there, as anybody close to his target will take full damage from his cannon. A couple clerics casting mass heal up there will be invaluable. Alternatively, the person with aggro can kite the Titan around on the floor until he is in position, but thats an aquired skill to stay alive.

Dropping the pillar:

The important thing for the pillar dropper to watch for is the Titan's feet. Keep the Titan as your target and watch his indicator (circle) to move onto the red dot. It's going to take time for you to work down the last 5% of the pillar, and for the pillar to fall over and register a hit so take your time and be sure you have a good shot before taking it. The pillars must reach 0 health to be destroyed, unlike the VoN6 pillars. The best way to handle this is to wait for the titan to fire his cannon before you drop the pillar. When the Titan's feet are touching the red dot, and he is starting his cannon fire, communicate to the laser operator that you are going to drop a pillar. Swing away with the pillar being in between yourself and the Titan. If your timing is right, he will not be able to finish his cannon shots before the pillar lands on his head and knocks him down onto his crotch plate.

Firing the laser:

The laser operator should be constantly aware of the Titans position and be listening for the pillar dropper to say he is about to drop a pillar. You can also see all pillars from your location so you will be able to see the pillar drop. You wont be able to power the assimilator and fire the laser without running a short distance and/or moving your camera position so this takes a little practice to get right. After powering the assimilator, it will turn an orange color and the entire party will recieve the DM Text, "The Crystal Assimilator blazes with fresh power!" After you are powered up, click the circle button in the middle of the directional arrows to fire. On a succesfull hit, your entire party will recieve the DM Text, "A blazing ruby beam strikes the Warforged Titan with tremendous force!". Rejoice. If you do not get any DM text after firing the laser, then either the laser shot was too late, or the titan was not close enough to the dot to register a hit. (NOTE) Some people say that you should keep the assimilator powered while positioning the Titan so you are ready to fire as soon as the pillar drops, without having to power it up directly before you fire. I dont use this tactic because if the assimilator loses power while the Titan is being uncooperative, its the best way to lose a pillar. With any practice you will see that you have more than enough time from when the pillar starts dropping until the titan gets back up to both power up and fire. You will now need to get a new crystal from the generator and ready yourselves again with a new pillar. If you chose a laser position where only one pillar can hit from, you will need 2 crystal, one to move it, and then get another one for firing.

The second shot:

The second shot will continue exactly the same as the first. The only difference being that after the second succesful hit, the barrier to Warforged Room 1 will reappear, trapping everyone who is still in there inside (get out before the second shot!). Also after the second succesful hit, you will recieve a DM Text, "From the catwalks, you hear a crackling and glimpse flashes of blue-white light." At this point, the barrier to warforged room 2 will come down. Also, mini-orbs of lightning (technically they are lightning bolts as far as the game is concerned) traverse the catwalks now. 20 points of lightning resistance will protect you, and evasion will make you immune to them. For good measure, the Insulated Armor from the warded chest here will make you invulnerable to them as well.

Move to Warforged Room 2:

Accessed from the catwalks, Warforged Room 2 has a funny name because there are no warforged spawns in there. In fact, if you are not at the open edge of the room, you are completly safe from all attacks. If you need to go AFK, this is the only place to do it safely. You will need to retrieve your crystals from the crystal generator in this room for now.

The Third/Fourth shots:

Once your laser is setup and ready to fire again, move your party out onto the catwalks from WF Room 2, and on top of the laser. Drop the third and fourth pillar on him using the same tactics as before (not at the same time of course)

The Fifth/Sixth shots:

After the fourth succesfull hit on the Titan, the barrier to WF Room 1 comes back down, allowing access to both Crystal Generators from this point on. Also, you can now have more than one crystal in your party and the crystals will continue to spawn in the generators regardless if it has been fired off or not. You have a choice now that you can carry on for the last two hits the same as the first four, or you can set yourself up for a combo to hit him 2-4 times consecutively. Our method at this point is to gather 3 crystals and drop them on the floor of the laser control panel. Now, if you originally left the laser in the default position, and used the four surrounding pillars to hit him for the first four shots, you can move the laser south 2 clicks so that it is surrounded by the final four pillars. After moving the laser and firing it off to discharge it, have your laser operator pick up one of the 2 remaining crystals on the deck. Position the titan over the red dot and drop the fifth pillar on him. Fire the laser. Pick up the last crystal. Charge the Assimilator. As the Titan is regaining his composure, drop the sixth pillar on his head. Fire the laser. "The Titan's shields blink out of existance!". He will now have the last 20% of his health left and with his sheilds down, he is again vulnerable to melee/ranged/spell attacks. Drop the seventh pillar on him as he is standing up again. Kick him when he's down and tell that ***** to be cool.

"The Warforged Titan collapses! Heat radiates from it's shell as it's priceless componants melt into slag."

GwenJynx
07-04-2007, 04:39 AM
Fantastic guide. Thanks :)

Gimpster
07-04-2007, 04:40 AM
I don't see any mention of the importance of not healing the Titan. Often groups report a bug, because they are unaware they've been healing the Titan, which means they need more than 6 shots to bring him down to unshielded mode again.

How it works:
When you are carrying a crystal near a Resonating Infuser, you will be hit with Inflict Wounds, Slow, and Hold Person, while any nearby enemy will be hit with Haste, Bull Strength, and Repair Damage.

That means carrying crystals near the Titan repairs him. For obvious reasons, you'd like to avoid that.

Gorby
07-04-2007, 04:44 AM
Then you read it too fast, cause it certainly is in there ;)

Gimpster
07-04-2007, 04:49 AM
Pre Mod-4, The Titan had completley random aggro. It was random on who he aggroed, and how long that person would hold his aggro. Usually he would switch targets every few seconds and could become very difficult to control, especially with a large party.
That is untrue. Prior to module 4, the Titan could aggro onto one player so firmly that he might be instructed to /death as the only way to lose the aggro. Alternatively, the heavy-aggroed player could exit the game and leave the Titan stuck on him even though he was disconnected.


While the party is working on pillars, one person with Deathward/FoM should take the first crystal from the generator and proceed to the laser control deck.
You don't go into detail there, but it is preferable if you grab the crystal without aggroing the warforged in that room. Easier for everyone if they never know you're there.


I dont use this tactic because if the assimilator loses power while the Titan is being uncooperative, its the best way to lose a pillar.
You have two minutes of power after loading, which you can time by looking at once of your buffs. Note that loading the crystal gets it out of your inventory, which deactivates the Resonating Infusers and reduces the possibility they will hurt nearby players or heal the Titan.


Accessed from the catwalks, Warforged Room 2 has a funny name because there are no warforged spawns in there.
That's not the name of the room, obviously. It is Crystal Room 2.


If you need to go AFK, this is the only place to do it safely.
Or the entrance. Or the ladder to the catwalks.


Drop the seventh pillar on him as he is standing up again.
Remember that dropping pillars at this point might kill your own team.

Gorby
07-04-2007, 05:01 AM
That is untrue.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one



You don't go into detail there, but it is preferable if you grab the crystal without aggroing the warforged in that room. Easier for everyone if they never know you're there.
This is stated at the top under the Rogue/Bard section.


You have two minutes of power after loading, which you can time by looking at once of your buffs. Note that loading the crystal gets it out of your inventory, which deactivates the Resonating Infusers and reduces the possibility they will hurt nearby players or heal the Titan.
I'll time it next time I'm in there and post the results. Too many times we've lost pillars because the assimilator has deactivated itself, and we cannot fire.



That's not the name of the room, obviously. It is Crystal Room 2.
Since theres no 'official' name for the room, I used the traditional name given to it in the past.



Or the entrance. Or the ladder to the catwalks.
Not sure how you can get to the entrance and still get back into the fight. You can Dimension door into it, but that takes you out till the end. I never tried standing still on the ladder to the catwalks, but I'll check this tommorow on whether or not you can get hit there. Also, for good measure there is a spot on the 2nd floor where, if your whole party is together, and the Titan is underneath you he cannot hit you. I'm not going to detail that however.



Remember that dropping pillars at this point might kill your own team.
And thats so much fun!

Gimpster
07-04-2007, 05:06 AM
Rather approximate here, except for the AC:

AC 36
7000 hp
DR 10/Adamantine
Resist 10 to all energy
Saving throws about +16
Strength 40
Alignment neutral (which is a bug, it should be LN)

Gimpster
07-04-2007, 05:08 AM
Many characters should remove their armor and shields as they enter the Twilight Forge Core. The Titan's stomp attack will create an AOE knockdown over the entire instance, and you need to pass a balance check to remain standing. Armor with an ACP will have you on the floor.

The lack of armor should not be any risk, because your AC is meaningless to the Titan, and with correct running the other WFs will never aggro.

Gorby
07-04-2007, 06:18 AM
Great stuff Gimpster, thank you!

I'm hoping we can get all of this in one place because, well, it just doesnt exist anywhere.

The_Cataclysm
07-04-2007, 10:33 AM
You don't need to be a sneaky type to get the crystals without getting aggro. My sorc can do it as well as my rogue. Though without a good hide/move silently, I would make sure to grab the crystal as soon as you can (can't go all the way crystal generator).

As for the crystal healing him, here is a conflicting report (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198813&page=2&pp=10) from the European server. Personally I don't know what is true or not with this since my guild never seems to encounter that bug. The only bug we ever get is the one where the gun will power down right after moving it.

Gimpster
07-04-2007, 02:21 PM
As for the crystal healing him, here is a conflicting report (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198813&page=2&pp=10) from the European server. Personally I don't know what is true or not with this since my guild never seems to encounter that bug.
You can test it directly. Just go in normally and as soon as his shield comes on, grab a crystal and run up next to him. You'll see the Repair icon come under him... and I think you'll even see his shield go OFF when he's repaired enough.

Alternatively, when you've shot 6 times and the shield is off again, bring a crystal to him and you'll see it go back on.

sNaKeYeZ
07-05-2007, 08:44 PM
You have two minutes of power after loading...

Just wanted to note here how nice a Logitech G-15 keyboard is in this quest. I usually play the role of timekeeper with my G-15 countdown timer feature.

Palmetto
07-06-2007, 08:00 AM
I don't see any mention of the importance of not healing the Titan. Often groups report a bug, because they are unaware they've been healing the Titan, which means they need more than 6 shots to bring him down to unshielded mode again.

How it works:
When you are carrying a crystal near a Resonating Infuser, you will be hit with Inflict Wounds, Slow, and Hold Person, while any nearby enemy will be hit with Haste, Bull Strength, and Repair Damage.

That means carrying crystals near the Titan repairs him. For obvious reasons, you'd like to avoid that.
Wrong! The titan is not healed by the resonating infusers.

Shade
07-06-2007, 10:05 AM
Setup the pillars:

To setup the pillars to drop with minimal effort, go ahead and kill off all of the pillar tops completly. If you have a ranger in your party with the Improved Precise Shot feat, they can stand on the catwalks and target the far pillar, shooting through 4 at a time to finish off the tops quickly. When a pillar half is destroyed, the attacker will recieve the message 'You killed Pillar." in their combat log. With the pillar tops destroyed, start working the bottom pillars down to about 5% of their health. Be careful not to kill them off completly, and dont have more than one person working each pillar at a time. Once you have killed off all tops and left each bottom at 5%, the only person on the ground floor should be the designated pillar dropper. Make sure he remains hasted and has refreshed deathward/FoM.


Nice guide but the people actually using/needing such a guide really shouldnt do this.
Like you i've done the titan countless times succesfully, differece here is I have almost always done it in pick up groups sometimes with as many as 10 people who have never done it.
Taking all the pillars so dangerously low in such a group is suicide. 1 stray arrorw and the quest could be messed up, and the fact that the quest was bugged so many times that doing that has caused lasers/pillars to kill each other (i believe thats fixed now but i still wouldnt risk it in a quest that gets a new bug every patch).

Being that you can very easily just have the whole group attack prepare 1 pillar a time and still beat the quest in under 15 minuits, its by far the most recommended way to do it. Having done so many pug runs thru it, I know for a fact that people will never understand nor enjoy the idea of just standing around doing nothing while 1 ranger does all the work. Allowing the whole group to help out makes it more fun, and safer for everyone.

Only other thing I do differently is instead of being sneaky in the warforged room, i kill them all to get people some xtra xp as I run around doing the quest, very little risk for me being that all my characters can kill them in 1-3 hits (barb/sorc).

And gotta agree with gimpster on the 2nd room. Calling a room that has no warforged in it ever, "warforged room 2" doesnt make sense. Its crystal room 2.

Shade
07-06-2007, 10:10 AM
Wrong! The titan is not healed by the resonating infusers.

Yes he is. Think about 3-4 weels ago when i did it. It took 7 shots to bring down his shield, because I got pretty close to him with a crystal. It could even take all 8 shots if you heal him enough.

The_Cataclysm
07-06-2007, 10:34 AM
Has anyone done any extenstive testing on the effects of the infusers on the WF Titan?

Palmetto
07-06-2007, 10:44 AM
Yes he is. Think about 3-4 weels ago when i did it. It took 7 shots to bring down his shield, because I got pretty close to him with a crystal. It could even take all 8 shots if you heal him enough.
Nope.

If it took you more than six shots that is because one of the shots did not register, or it was a miss. After six successful hits the barriers for the crystal rooms reappear.

Crabo
07-07-2007, 03:41 AM
Nope.

If it took you more than six shots that is because one of the shots did not register, or it was a miss. After six successful hits the barriers for the crystal rooms reappear.

You should really leave the disagreeing to people that have obviously alot more experience on this quest than yourself. It is not as clear cut as this, people should really listen to Gimpster, he often hits the nail on the head as he has done here.

Guildmaster_Kadish
07-08-2007, 07:36 PM
Just thought I'd mention that the power in the laser does indeed last two minutes exactly. My guild (THotBT) likes to simply appoint two separate crystal runners to keep power in the laser as much as possible, and with an accurate countdown, there is really no way to accidentally lose a pillar from late shots or inactive laser.

Other than that minor strategic point (and personal preference in strategy really), I'd like to compliment you on a great guide.

Master Kadish

P.S. It makes a lot more sense (and therefore I prefer) to call the south rooms the upper and lower (or first and second) crystal rooms, rather than warforged rooms.

Palmetto
07-09-2007, 07:58 AM
You should really leave the disagreeing to people that have obviously alot more experience on this quest than yourself.
What exactly makes you think I am not experienced with this quest?

Don't make assumptions.


It is not as clear cut as this, people should really listen to Gimpster, he often hits the nail on the head as he has done here.
Fine, listen to him. Too bad he is WRONG regarding this subject.

Crabo
07-09-2007, 12:01 PM
What exactly makes you think I am not experienced with this quest?

Don't make assumptions.


Fine, listen to him. Too bad he is WRONG regarding this subject.

No assumptions were made here. This can be tested easily by yourself and Gimpster has even told you exactly how to test it. It really goes to prove that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
I apologize if this dents your ego, but just remember, you will never get any smarter if you think you already know it all.

Gimpster
07-09-2007, 01:18 PM
What exactly makes you think I am not experienced with this quest?
We can tell you're inexperienced because you make claims that are FALSE.

You said it's impossible to need 7 shots unless you miss some of them. Well no, sorry, you are flat-out wrong. Sometimes it takes more than 6 real hits- people who have experienced this and tested it estimate that it's because the number of hits is died to the Titan's hitpoints, and because you can heal him.


Fine, listen to him. Too bad he is WRONG regarding this subject.
No, that would be you.

Here's a little hint for logical thinking: it's hard to prove a negative. Just because you've never seen something happen isn't really proof that it can never ever happen.

Palmetto
07-09-2007, 03:46 PM
We can tell you're inexperienced because you make claims that are FALSE.

You said it's impossible to need 7 shots unless you miss some of them. Well no, sorry, you are flat-out wrong. Sometimes it takes more than 6 real hits- people who have experienced this and tested it estimate that it's because the number of hits is died to the Titan's hitpoints, and because you can heal him.


No, that would be you.

Here's a little hint for logical thinking: it's hard to prove a negative. Just because you've never seen something happen isn't really proof that it can never ever happen.
The crystal rooms close after six successful hits. On many occassions we have had a miss that looked like a hit. Everything was in place, the titan on his back, the laser fired, it looked just like a hit, but it did not register. That is the only time it would take additional crystals.

Gimpster
07-09-2007, 10:19 PM
The crystal rooms close after six successful hits.
False, as we've been telling you. The rooms close after the Titan's hitpoints are below a certain threshold. Normally, that means you have hit him 6 times. But if he has been healed, it might take more hits than that.

You can tell if this happens by looking at his healthbar- if it took an extra laser shot because he was healed a little, then his hp when the shield drops will be much lower than usual (almost nothing left).

Guildmaster_Kadish
07-09-2007, 10:21 PM
The crystal rooms close after six successful hits. On many occassions we have had a miss that looked like a hit. Everything was in place, the titan on his back, the laser fired, it looked just like a hit, but it did not register. That is the only time it would take additional crystals.

I will say up-front that despite the many TF raids I have participated in and led, I have very little (absolutely no) knowledge on the subject of the Titan regenerating. I personally haven't seen it happen, and I haven't done any testing on the matter.

That being said, I have been locked in a crystal room when the sixth shot was fired.
-However-
If you have never seen the quest take more than six successful hits, would it not be equally possible that the crystal rooms close when the Titan's shields go down rather than when the sixth successful hit is made?

Master Kadish

Jaysensen
07-10-2007, 12:20 AM
This is the old strat we used back in the day. Most people I run with do it a bit differently.


Gather everyone past the red line.
Cast False Life / Mass Aid. No other buffs. Then Haste
Run to the left straight up the ladder then the second ladder. Dont stop.
Gather the ENTIRE PARTY at either the northmost or southmost point on the upper catwalk. This will ensure that the titan moves into position and starts breaking those barriers (which are actually semi safe spots)
Mass Cure/Potion/Wand to full.
NOW you take him down. Ranged or Firewall. OR send in a Suicidal Barb. Whatever.
Take him down as normal - detailed in the guide.



Leaving people in the WF rooms is just extra monsters to subject yourself to. Going straight to the top is much much cleaner.


Also, you can stand on the top catwalk and load crystals without jumping off. Try it.

Palmetto
07-10-2007, 07:45 AM
I would it not be equally possible that the crystal rooms close when the Titan's shields go down rather than when the sixth successful hit is made?
six successful hits = titan shield down = crystal rooms closed

They happen at the same time.

Shade
07-10-2007, 11:58 AM
Think you need to give up palmetto, you have several of the most knowledgeable founders of the game disagreeing with you.

You may not believe me, but I was the first person to kill the titan. Ive run the quest far too many times and have experimented with every possible strategy, so I know to the finest detail exactly how he works. Out of probably 50+ runs (i dont count) I had to shoot him 7 times only twice. The first time i assumed it was a bug, 2nd time I figured it out and check with a dev.

The dev even comfirmed this is not a bug and is intended.

If your inclined to be right, just go test it yourself. You have to completely blind to not notice it, because besides healing him, the crystals also cast bulls strength and haste on him and all his smaller buddies - very noticeable as the little sparks flying around and all the spell animations going off.

To some degree it is bugged tho, as on the 6th hit, the DM will tell you "The titans shields blink of out existance" No matter what. But his shield may or may not have dropped, depending on weather you healed him or not.

Palmetto
07-10-2007, 01:13 PM
Think you need to give up palmetto, you have several of the most knowledgeable founders of the game disagreeing with you.
Um, yeah. They may be "knowledgeable founders", but that doesn't make them right.


You may not believe me, but I was the first person to kill the titan. Ive run the quest far too many times and have experimented with every possible strategy, so I know to the finest detail exactly how he works. Out of probably 50+ runs (i dont count) I had to shoot him 7 times only twice. The first time i assumed it was a bug, 2nd time I figured it out and check with a dev.
First person to kill the titan? Give me a break. Does being "the first" somehow bestow you with more knowledge about the quest than anyone else?
So you were in the group that cheesed the titan with grease? Nice job.

50+ runs? You'll catch up soon beacuse we only run the titan two or three times a week now.

Palmetto
07-11-2007, 07:47 AM
For your viewing pleasure:

Upper crystal room (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/surroundedbyidiots97/UpperCrystalRoom.jpg) after six SUCCESSFUL laser hits on the titan. :eek:

Lower crystal room (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/surroundedbyidiots97/LowerCrystalRoom.jpg) after six SUCCESSFUL laser hits on the titan. :eek:

Titan shield (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/surroundedbyidiots97/TitanShieldDown.jpg) lowered after six SUCCESSFUL laser hits. :eek:

**Notice**
Due to aggro management issues, the titan and the crystal runner - with crystal in hand - were engaged in a close proximity stare-down contest for about two minutes. Beams from the resonating crystals were hitting the titan during the entire two-minute ordeal. At no time was the titan healed / repaired!!! :eek: He did, however, receive haste and bull's strength (like he needed it).

Please explain to me how you are able to breach the closed crystal rooms after you claim to have hit the titan with six successful laser shots.

Guildmaster_Kadish
07-14-2007, 04:51 PM
six successful hits = titan shield down = crystal rooms closed

They happen at the same time.

I don't think you got the point of my post. If every time you have killed the Titan, it has taken six shots, there is no way that you can determine whether taking down his shields or shooting him six times causes the rooms to close.


Just because you've never seen something happen isn't really proof that it can never ever happen.

Right on. Palmetto, your example of a Titan run in which everything works normally doesn't prove that it can't heal the Titan.

Master Kadish

Jaysensen
07-14-2007, 05:13 PM
Leave someone in the upper crystal room, grab crystal, and DD out. I have had people "trapped" in there. However, the last time this happened, it was a couple patches ago, probably when Cometfall worked, though I cant remember.

also

I HAVE been on runs where the instance completes - xp earned, and the Loot Sheild doesnt come down. DD solved that too. Also a long time ago.

Gimpster
07-15-2007, 12:56 AM
For your viewing pleasure:
Upper crystal room after six SUCCESSFUL laser hits on the titan.
Lower crystal room after six SUCCESSFUL laser hits on the titan.
Titan shield lowered after six SUCCESSFUL laser hits.
How do you imagine those images are at all relevant?


Due to aggro management issues, the titan and the crystal runner - with crystal in hand - were engaged in a close proximity stare-down contest for about two minutes. Beams from the resonating crystals were hitting the titan during the entire two-minute ordeal. At no time was the titan healed / repaired!!!
I can 100% confirm that I have explicitly tested this and the Titan CAN be healed. Either you are mistaken with this report, or there is an additional factor involved.

I will note that if the carrier really survived for 2 minutes, he probably was trying to keep his distance from the Titan, and might not have been in repairing range.

Gimpster
07-15-2007, 12:58 AM
Experiment report
1. Shoot the titan with 6 lasers.
2. Shield goes off. Narrator says "Titan's shield blinks of existence"
3. Run up to titan holding crystal.
4. Shield goes back on. Titan cannot be hurt.
5. Shoot titan with 7th laser.
6. Shield goes off. There is no additional narration.
7. Kill titan as usual.

Those are facts.

Tulsa_Doom
07-15-2007, 04:07 PM
Well Palmetto sorry to burst your bubble but Gimpster and Shade are right and you are wrong and acting a bit foolish. Decent guide, skimmed thru alot of the responses and I think you are a little off in spell selection for titan shields firewall and disintegrate work faster than scorching ray or mm. I think I also read that you said spells dont work on pillars. Thats not true. Cometfall and disintegrate work fine. I apologize in advance if you covered this. BTW Shade, the repair explanation explains more than the offcenter shot. I think the reasoning behind it however wrong was the higher than normal health after 6th shot when in reality it was repair from resonators. Makes perfect sense. As far as preparation on the pillars I would say in large grps work on each pillar as you need it or instruct party to damage pillar only to 50 to 30 percent as a buffer for interpretation and overzealousness.

Shade
07-16-2007, 04:37 AM
Experiment report
1. Shoot the titan with 6 lasers.
2. Shield goes off. Narrator says "Titan's shield blinks of existence"
3. Run up to titan holding crystal.
4. Shield goes back on. Titan cannot be hurt.
5. Shoot titan with 7th laser.
6. Shield goes off. There is no additional narration.
7. Kill titan as usual.

Those are facts.

While I believe that could happen... How do you get a crystal after the titans shields goes down? The crystal rooms do lock after his shields drop (not directly on the 6th shot) DDoor and trade thru the barrier?

And yea you can buff the WF titan without healing him, there different rays, may be you have to get very close for the repair one to hit.

Gimpster
07-16-2007, 07:53 AM
While I believe that could happen... How do you get a crystal after the titans shields goes down?
After the 4th shot there are two crystal rooms open at once. You can take a crystal from both at the same time, so you still have one in inventory after the 6th shot closes the rooms.

Gimpster
07-16-2007, 07:57 AM
Well Palmetto sorry to burst your bubble but Gimpster and Shade are right and you are wrong and acting a bit foolish. Decent guide, skimmed thru alot of the responses and I think you are a little off in spell selection for titan shields firewall and disintegrate work faster than scorching ray or mm.
Firewall and disintegrate may not be reliable, depending on other factors. Disintegrate has a saving throw, so you need high intelligence or charisma to make the Titan fail the save and take serious damage. Firewall is something he may not be willing to stand in, and it has the risk you will accidently kill a pillar with it. Also, if you don't have both maximize and empower, firewall won't be able to overcome his energy resistance very much.

But Scorching Ray and Magic Missile have no dependence on a high intelligence, and the chance of collateral damage is slim to none. (Personally I'd always use Disintegrate, but I'd also curse the titan so he always fails the save)

The_Cataclysm
07-16-2007, 09:57 AM
Disintegrate should pretty much work all the time (except when he rolls a 1). He shouldn't have any con so really low fort save.

Though I think killing him with disintegrate might be 1 case for the barrier to the chest room not going down. Need to do more testing though.

Vyctor
07-16-2007, 11:48 AM
Disintegrate also works relatively well on the pillars

Gimpster
07-17-2007, 08:29 AM
Disintegrate should pretty much work all the time (except when he rolls a 1). He shouldn't have any con so really low fort save.
No. I have tested his fortitude to be at least 12, and probably higher. Even his reflex is above 14.

The official D&D Warforged Titan (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040511a) has fort +4 reflex +3, but this raid-boss version is massively upgraded as you'd expect. The most powerful advanced Titan listed in that PnP description is 48 hd, which would have fort 20 reflex 19. (Fort 6 from 20 Constuct HD, then +14 from 28 epic HD. Reflex is the same, but at a -1 penalty from 8 dex)

PS. The official Warforged Titan also has 11 unbuffed wisdom, which is way more than the DDO characters attacking him (aside from divine casters). His intelligence is 3 though (which raises the interesting possibility of hitting him with Touch of Idiocy)

Gimpster
07-17-2007, 08:32 AM
Disintegrate also works relatively well on the pillars
It does, but I consider that a waste unless there are many extra casters (which I also consider a waste). On a wiz, I basically want to spend almost half my mana bringing his shield up, and then the rest finishing him off. There's no glory in killing harmless pillars, so I let someone else toss some daggers.

PS. However, in VON6 is can be quite helpful for a wizard to Disintegrate the pillars, if nobody strong is available to break it.

Jaysensen
07-17-2007, 07:46 PM
Pillars are Immune to fire damage
They have A LOT of hit points
It takes more than 50 Disintegrate scrolls to prep even half of the pillars
Pillars DO get saving throws against Disintegrate
Interestingly, the Pillars can receive the "Curse" status effect as indicated in the combat log
They also have like probably 1 AC
Pillars do not fall straight if you Range them. They fall in a random direction.
Pillars DO fall straight if you Disintegrate them

Shade
07-17-2007, 10:02 PM
Doesn't matter much what you attack him with, the battle is incredibly easy these days.

Wizard might use half his mana if hes doing very poor dmg with no max/emp.. My sorc can bring his shield up, on elite in about 20 seconds, using 25% of my sp or my barbarian in about 10 seconds without taking a single point of damage... Either way it doesnt matter much. Sorc I usualy use firewall as it does a good 300 dmg per tic on a crit, which can bring up his shield in 1 spell if im patient and wait... Tho i mix in a max/emp disintegrate for fun. Far as him moving out of it goes, that doesnt really happen the way I usualy do the quest.

Normal disintegrate does around 200-250 dmg for 35 sp. I can cast that about 50 times. More then enough to kill a few pillars, especially ones prepd by the rest of the team. Being that i have never missed a shot/pillar in over 20 runs i really dont care if a melee or my sorc takes em down. Melees more efficient, but not faster or more reliable. (dmg scrolls are a joke, they have horrible DC and Dmg, while a pillar might resist a scroll, it cant even think of resisting the real deal with sup potency and 34 cha)

Oddly the titan seems to have low saves but high SR. Where his ancient WF buddies have low/no SR but very high saves (on elite anyways)

Thing is the battle (where you can actally dmg him normally) is too easy. It was challenging when he first came out.. Then they nerfed his damage allot and made it rather easy.. Then we got lvl14 and it became very easy. It's the only raid I know allot of people always do on elite simply because theres no extra risk involved. It's 99.9% win vs 99.9% win.

Gimpster
07-17-2007, 11:26 PM
My sorc can bring his shield up, on elite in about 20 seconds, using 25% of my sp or my barbarian in about 10 seconds without taking a single point of damage...
It takes over 1500 hitpoints to get his shield up on normal. You do 150 damage per second on a crit immune target?

cam0940
07-18-2007, 11:23 AM
Well I for one, truly appreciate the OP taking the time to sit down and explain this raid from start to finish. I have also enjoyed reading the responses of people familiar w/ the raid...it's all very helpful. I personally have played my ranger a few times, cleric a few times, and sorc a couple times in the Titan raid. Unfortunately, I am uncomfortable organizing or lfming a group because I was always unsure of exactly what the deal was w/ the pillars. W/ my ranger I did what was asked of me when asked. Rolled for loot. Cleric threw a few mass heals, a few rezzes, and rolled for loot. Sorc let him have the sup potency and sup kinetic lore, and rolled for loot. But I've never had the raid discussed in such detail and for that I thank you guys.

I just have two final questions for clarification..because it's SO annoying to get to the Core and have someone screw up the pillars:

You should completely break the upper pillars, bring the lower pillar down to 10ish percent, and then break the lower pillar when the titan is in position?

And what's the final word on having a few extra crystals at the laser for the last two shots? That sounds like a brilliant idea on paper.

Gimpster
07-18-2007, 02:15 PM
You should completely break the upper pillars, bring the lower pillar down to 10ish percent, and then break the lower pillar when the titan is in position?
Yes, although somewhat lower than 10% is better. Technically, you can break the upper parts last, but that's weird and nobody really does it.


And what's the final word on having a few extra crystals at the laser for the last two shots? That sounds like a brilliant idea on paper.
It's not worth the hassle unless you are already good at winning the raid, and want to try shaving a few minutes off your time. Otherwise it's just a complexity that's another chance for someone to screw up and/or pull aggro in the wrong place. Easier to keep it simple and run 1 crystal at a time.

cam0940
07-20-2007, 04:22 AM
Thanks Gimpster. I'll post back w/ my findings on Saturday.

Tulsa_Doom
07-20-2007, 05:58 AM
Kind of splitting hairs but not sure why 10 percent is better. I find most melee have more than enough dps to leave bottom pillar with more than 10 percent health. A stray cometfall, swing or arrow and you are down one pillar. Like I said splitting hairs but not sure why less than 10 is better.

Aeneas
07-20-2007, 11:05 AM
Here's a good tip as well:

Don't bring any of my toons with you on this raid or you will be getting the rattle charm, bravo sword, or titanic docent (but only if no wf are present).

All that aside though, i would probably leave a bit more than 10% there myself just because there's nearly always a character with an SOS in party these days who can level the darn thing in seconds whether it has 10% or 40%. And as tulsa mentions, losing a pillar or two accidentally can quickly become a problem.

Aspenor
07-20-2007, 11:49 AM
It takes over 1500 hitpoints to get his shield up on normal. You do 150 damage per second on a crit immune target?

Spells still crit on crit-immune targets.

Gimpster
07-20-2007, 12:49 PM
Spells still crit on crit-immune targets.
Yes, but barbarians don't qualify for spell-crit enhancements.

Gimpster
07-20-2007, 12:51 PM
Pillars do not fall straight if you Range them. They fall in a random direction.
Pillars DO fall straight if you Disintegrate them

I am told that ranged pillars don't fall randomly. Instead, they fall in the last direction they were struck from a non-ranged attack. I have tested this somewhat, and so far it's holding up.

Aspenor
07-20-2007, 02:17 PM
Yes, but barbarians don't qualify for spell-crit enhancements.

You quoted Shade, he is a sorceror.

Jaysensen
07-20-2007, 04:25 PM
I am told that ranged pillars don't fall randomly. Instead, they fall in the last direction they were struck from a non-ranged attack. I have tested this somewhat, and so far it's holding up.

Oh man thats awesome... Im gonna have to exploit that - I mean test that. Thanks Gimpster!

Gimpster
07-22-2007, 10:09 PM
You quoted Shade, he is a sorceror.
No. Go back and read Shade's message, paying special attention to the words "my barbarian".

cam0940
08-06-2007, 05:24 PM
Well, whatever splitting hairs is going on, it works. We've beaten the titan 4 times in a row since I read this post, a little quicker each time. Thanks Gimpster!

Angelus_dead
02-02-2009, 05:03 AM
this any help?