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View Full Version : enemies running away != fun or challenging.



Conejo
07-03-2007, 10:31 AM
it's just annoying.

fix the A.I.

juniorpfactors
07-03-2007, 10:31 AM
so bad i may need to swap a feat for spring attack

Cupcake
07-03-2007, 10:48 AM
Annoying.

Dariun
07-03-2007, 10:50 AM
At least stop spell casters from casting with their back to me.

I swear that kobold shaman shot that acid spell from out his butt! I'm pretty sure that is not a standard spell. :eek:

joker965
07-03-2007, 10:52 AM
it's just annoying.

fix the A.I.

Note: (This is all in fun I'm just making my point in a round about way.)

So your trying to kill them with a meele weapon right? I realize that everything is about meele and anything that makes it harder for a meele to kill something is "bad". ;)

So the archers and caster should just stand there and let you crease their skull with that sword or axe or whatever?

OMG someone with a missle weapon or a nasty spell might have an advantage over a meele in killing a MOB! This may be the end of the world as we know it!

jkm
07-03-2007, 10:56 AM
so bad i may need to swap a feat for spring attack

that doesn't work as you can't hit them from behind, you have to be to the side.

Dariun
07-03-2007, 10:56 AM
So the archers and caster should just stand there and let you crease their skull with that sword or axe or whatever?


No, but when they run away there are two problems:

1. For some reason, they seem to get insta-Haste when they run away.
2. For some reason, they also seem to get Improved Displacement when they run away as 75% of all attacks do not even get an attack roll.

joker965
07-03-2007, 11:01 AM
No, but when they run away there are two problems:

1. For some reason, they seem to get insta-Haste when they run away.
2. For some reason, they also seem to get Improved Displacement when they run away as 75% of all attacks do not even get an attack roll.

I agree that there may be a bug here but it is not the AI. They should run.

jaitee
07-03-2007, 11:02 AM
missle attacks dont put down a kobald fast, its a dent in the bullet proof vest, for them, as for casters, they could probably use spells, but not every group will be lucky to have a caster everytime :p on the side of this i am tired of chasing a mob from the start of one quest to the end
- ran vamp yesterday, group gave up cause we couldnt even hit him with some of us packing 30 dex, 28 str, i dunno my ranger had 30 dex and missed every shot , but he moved and ran the entire time, those of us who ran the church and the cult knows the fear of a running mob :D

Olaff
07-03-2007, 11:05 AM
Even with Spring Attack and Exp. Retreat, you still can't hit them... even when you're running faster than they are - fast enough that you're constantly on top of them.

The trick is to stop chasing them - you don't have to whip out a ranged weapon, but stop chasing. They'll stop, then you run after them again and kill them. They often don't start to run away again once they've stopped.

Sometimes they do. But not often.

joker965
07-03-2007, 11:07 AM
missle attacks dont put down a kobald fast, its a dent in the bullet proof vest, for them, as for casters, they could probably use spells, but not every group will be lucky to have a caster everytime :p on the side of this i am tired of chasing a mob from the start of one quest to the end
- ran vamp yesterday, group gave up cause we couldnt even hit him with some of us packing 30 dex, 28 str, i dunno my ranger had 30 dex and missed every shot , but he moved and ran the entire time, those of us who ran the church and the cult knows the fear of a running mob :D


I really just don't agree with the entire thinking in this thread. The fact that a group might need some different tactics against different mobs just seems like a good thing to me.

Dariun
07-03-2007, 11:12 AM
ran vamp yesterday, group gave up cause we couldnt even hit him with some of us packing 30 dex, 28 str, i dunno my ranger had 30 dex and missed every shot , but he moved and ran the entire time, those of us who ran the church and the cult knows the fear of a running mob :D

OMG! I made the mistake of summoning a **** hound against him.

I thought it would just be a distraction and get killed real quick but maybe keep someone from getting some damage.

The crazy vampire ran non-stop chased by the **** hound until we had wasted all of our spell points (hard to hit with ray attacks when the target is zooming around).

We had to recall and come back in and I had to apologize 20 times for summoning a monster. :(

When we went back, we didn't take any chances. We led him into the shrine and closed the door behind us.

jaitee
07-03-2007, 11:14 AM
I really just don't agree with the entire thinking in this thread. The fact that a group might need some different tactics against different mobs just seems like a good thing to me.

well as of now the tactics vs a running mob, is chase it, specifically the red names one, who runs around

Dariun
07-03-2007, 11:15 AM
I really just don't agree with the entire thinking in this thread. The fact that a group might need some different tactics against different mobs just seems like a good thing to me.

It's not tactics. The AI is bugged.

A vampire should not run around at hyperspeed for 3 minutes with a low level **** Hound chasing him.

Low level spell casters should not be able to both outrun PCs and cast spells while doing so.

Any character that turns its back on you and runs away should be vulnerable to attacks, not nearly immune to all damage as seems to be the case.

Ziggy
07-03-2007, 11:17 AM
well as of now the tactics vs a running mob, is chase it, specifically the red names one, who runs around
well i mean according to this here (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q196/z2ggy/wakkawakka.gif) its not like chasing mobs wasnt around way before MMO's:D

GeneralDiomedes
07-03-2007, 11:20 AM
I remember one time I ran away from a mob when I was low on health. I didn't stop running until I found the exit. The last time I ran away wasn't so lucky - the Ogre shaman was wise to my pitiful tactics and cast Hold Person on me.

Human players and the computer AI have more in common than you think. They rely on inflated stats and reactive maneuvers about as much as your average player.

jaitee
07-03-2007, 11:24 AM
I remember one time I ran away from a mob when I was low on health. I didn't stop running until I found the exit. The last time I ran away wasn't so lucky - the Ogre shaman was wise to my pitiful tactics and cast Hold Person on me.

Human players and the computer AI have more in common than you think. They rely on inflated stats and reactive maneuvers about as much as your average player.

last time i ran from a mob, the ogre, was able to land his 3 hit combo on me from behind, but when i chased him, it was miss miss, no dice roll ;)

joker965
07-03-2007, 11:29 AM
It's not tactics. The AI is bugged.

A vampire should not run around at hyperspeed for 3 minutes with a low level **** Hound chasing him.

Low level spell casters should not be able to both outrun PCs and cast spells while doing so.

Any character that turns its back on you and runs away should be vulnerable to attacks, not nearly immune to all damage as seems to be the case.

Ok. We were not talking about a vampire at first as that would be a different discussion. He of course shouldn't run from a **** hound. The **** hound should turn and attack the party at his whim.

It is not an AI bug that you can't hit the runners from behind. It is a collision/attack bug.

Originally Posted by jaitee
well as of now the tactics vs a running mob, is chase it, specifically the red names one, who runs around

This is just one possible choice and would only be made by a meele character.

GeneralDiomedes
07-03-2007, 11:33 AM
last time i ran from a mob, the ogre, was able to land his 3 hit combo on me from behind, but when i chased him, it was miss miss, no dice roll ;)

Do you see the developers dilemma? If you were able to hit them on the run all the time, then killing them would be trivial as they are not casting when they are running. I think this is the only recourse they had to make the game even remotely challenging.

jaitee
07-03-2007, 11:34 AM
should be fair on both sides, mobs do tend to run alot more, then they use to, i dont have a problem, i usualy stand still and wait for the mob to come to me or stop, watching other chase them

everyone retreats at some point tho, so to prevent a great escape, kill them :P

Merlask
07-03-2007, 11:37 AM
Y'know... I thought the mobs turning tail to get a better vantage point on me was kinda neat...

Then came the other night...

When the caster walked up, saw me whackin away on his buddies, turned around, warped himself up on top of a pillar, and proceeded to blast me, knowing very well that in order to hit him I'd have to jump around/goof around with getting on that pillar -_-

I KNEW the mobs were plotting against me. Knew it, knew it, knew it.

iamsamoth0
07-03-2007, 11:45 AM
Explosive colon acid attack...
It occurs to me we never 'bathe', don't we stink?:rolleyes:

Duagrim
07-03-2007, 11:49 AM
Yes, it's annoying when the mobs run away. No, it shouldn't be changed. Running away from an opponent you cannot beat is a perfectly rational tactic, as is opening the range when you specialise in missiles and your opponent wants to fight HTH. It's always annoying when the enemy refuses to cooperate in his own destruction. That's life.

Now, what's REALLY annoying is how mobs (skellies, for example) that are supposed to be slow and clumsy (being dead and all) are soooo quick and agile in the game that you can't keep up with them. In fact, they can run in a circle around you faster than you can turn in place to face them. Now, THAT is FAST!!! I guess death just isn't the handicap it used to be....

Roguewiz
07-03-2007, 11:50 AM
There are many aspects that need attention:

Grasshopper Skeletons
Jumping Jack Kobolds
Speedy Gonzales Vampires
Chain Casting Sleet Storm Halfling Wizards (grrrrr, I HATE THE SWIPED SIGNET!!!!)

Smarter AI is fine, but I don't see the "smarter" in the current AI setup. I see nothing more than a sad implementation.

joracie
07-03-2007, 12:33 PM
Be fine if they cut their speed down. then instead of never hitting we would only get a -2 to attack(-4 movement+2 from behind) and then if you havent, Make rouges sneak attack effect them. Then forcing mobs to run away would be good!(7d6 o sneak attack!)

Mad_Bombardier
07-03-2007, 12:50 PM
and then if you havent, Make rouges sneak attack effect them. Then forcing mobs to run away would be good!(7d6 o' sneak attack!)Hear, hear!

shins
07-03-2007, 12:53 PM
rawr

joker965
07-03-2007, 01:03 PM
I think that those of you that think there is nothing wrong with the AI running the way it is now are just plain ass backwards ********. I'd explain in more detail, but since you're all so messed in the head or completely plunged up turbines ass and think everything they do is great and beneficial to the game, it would just fall on deaf ears.

Duh......... Sorry, I'm a "******".

Come on buddy. I'm saying that the AI with the MOBs runnig away is not broken. At least it is not totally broken. Possibly the mobs that are scripted for this might be tweaked. The idea that they shouldn't just stand there and get pounded by the meele characters is a sound AI choice.

Did you really have to get all freaky here? I could say more but I'll leave the infraction point gathering to you.

Coldin
07-03-2007, 01:03 PM
It's only annoying in that they can move away from you faster than you can chase them, and that even if you can gain on them due to haste or a really good striding item, your swings still whiff even if you're running right behind them.

Of course a monster can still hit us, even if the swing was 5 ft to the left.

Please either fix the AI or the hit registration.

DaGSO
07-03-2007, 01:08 PM
I think allowing the mobs to run is ok. All what the players have to do is not immediately run after them. It is like Fearful Armor. My mage and Barbarian uses it. I get hit, and then wait for the mob is done running. I walk up and beat them senseless(hopefully to death). I do agree that mobs can not cast with their backs to you as you can not cast with your back to them.

Drider
07-03-2007, 01:34 PM
I don't see why they shouldn't run away. If you see a pack of adventures stomping through your friends. I'd run too.

Also it's about time that we got a taste of our own medicine. I'm sure the mobs don't like when rangers kite them either. :)

But ya, mobs should run.. usually its the archers that run the most, next are casters. I also like that when they run they will head toward other mobs and aggro them and bring them back to the fight.

jaitee
07-03-2007, 01:37 PM
what i dont understand is why can they hit us but we cant hit them while running

Vi'Aed
07-03-2007, 01:47 PM
Comment: Other than when "feared" beasties don't "run away" they separate from melee. Perfectly rational tactic to allow them to make best use of their offensive capabilities (magic/ranged.) I have as of yet to run across a creature that actually runs faster than I do, but they do, frequently, improve their distancing with change of direction maneuvers. From an AI standpoint both of those are absolutely fine.

Yes, the difficulty in hitting a moving beastie is annoying and that is a whole different issue. And yes there is certainly some work that good be done on the mechanics, but it isn't critically broken.

However, refusing to accept that the kobold you are chasing is just going to keep running until it gets the space it wants... well that is just silly. Wait til it stops and then whack it. Or shoot it. Or Zap it. Anything that moves the game a step away from all melee all the time is good in my book.

I wanna see beasties casting D-Door and porting around the dungeon. That would be messed up! :)

dameron
07-03-2007, 01:52 PM
last time i ran from a mob, the ogre, was able to land his 3 hit combo on me from behind, but when i chased him, it was miss miss, no dice roll ;)

You think that's bad?

I had an orgre, who was blind and drained down to 0 STR (I was autocritting with my enfeebler) 3 hit me, 3x crit me (with moderate fort on) and drop me in one combo.

It's borked. I'm about this <----> close to ditching this steamy pile for good.

Shamguard
07-03-2007, 02:06 PM
Explosive colon acid attack...
It occurs to me we never 'bathe', don't we stink?:rolleyes:


We get our bath when we run WW, STK and the swim the lighthouse. Then there is the TS lava swim to help clean us up a little.:) Plus I'm sure you can think of several swims, fires, and other events that will just clear the stink right off even a dwarf.:D

REKCEDER
07-03-2007, 02:15 PM
I found that as a rule when the mobs run from me I can take cover (break LOS) and they will attempt to recover the LOS or come back to engage. If you choose your cover carefully you can control the LOS to where they have to close. Try it sometime, you'll be surprised how often they will come right back into melee!

INHO the fact that they run for improved positions and to get buddies is a very cool thing and forces you to think about ranged attacks as a force component. SOoooo much better than the old Wolfenstein "waitin'-to-die" mobs!

Conejo
07-03-2007, 02:50 PM
now that we've worked up a nice civil discourse let me add some explanations:

1) when the monster AI says "run away until you can't runs no more" it becomes annoying. this is most noticable in Cerulean Hills, where the rangers run until tethered (rendering them invulnerable and healing) and then run THE OTHER WAY until tethered again.

2) by "fix the AI" i mean make them smarter. there are not two directions (towards or away from the party) and they should skirmish better.

3) i'm sick of the collision detection being so AWFUL, and yes this is part of the problem with the marathons we are forced into to attempt to even fight.

4) skeletons are not slow. if you consult your Monster Manual, you'll notice making a skeleton provides an inherent +4 to Dexterity from the base creature. they are nimble and fast, unlike zombies.

dameron
07-03-2007, 03:26 PM
I'm saying that the AI with the MOBs runnig away is not broken. At least it is not totally broken. Possibly the mobs that are scripted for this might be tweaked. The idea that they shouldn't just stand there and get pounded by the meele characters is a sound AI choice.


Running away before you're in melee range wouldn't be broken.

Turning your back on a guy with a sword after he's in melee range is suicidal. The last thing it should do is make you effectively invulnerable.

The real problem is that the archers rarely pull out melee weapons of their own and fight. They should all have some melee ability, maybe even twf ability and casters should load up on touch attacks. That makes a lot more sense that turning your ass to the robot with the burst kopesh.

Riggs
07-04-2007, 06:07 AM
Not only does the running monster get that 1 second time delay (you THINK hes in front of you, but the server says he 10 feet over THERE - so you dont even get an attack roll), which is ALWAYS slanted in favor of the monster - they can cast spells at you while facing the other direction and still running away.

This happens constantly. Monster casts something at you - you run up and maybe get a hit off, it turns and runs away...and WHILE it is now 20 feet away and still facing the other way - lands a spell on you, and STILL keeps running away as long as your still chasing it.

I would like my spells to not require me to face my target - since monsters now - using that 1 second delay - also CONSTANTLY avoid my spells by running beside me, or behind me, AFTER I have cast the spell, and have completed the casting animation, but before it 'goes off'.

It is this delay that used to cause monsters to cast spells at you AFTER being killed. (Whats the concentration DC for death?) That part was fixed, but monsters still cast, or trip you, or attack you, while tripped/stunned/held/flesh to stone - anything. I have seen spells go off over a full second, sometimes two after a monster was incapacitated, yet MY spells get stopped cold the instant anything hits me.

The issue is not that a ranged monster runs away from a melee and players need to adjust tactics. It is that the game is suffering from a serious bug/development issue/server delay - whatever it is or you want to call it. What you see on your screen is not what is actually happening to you - and it ALWAYS is in favor of monsters.

The 'no hit roll' thing is really incredibly frustrating on my melee characters. 'Hey look I am swinging my sword at an enemy - its passing THROUGH the enemy, but I dont even get an attack roll, because the server says hes somewhere else that I cant see yet.' Chasing an enemy that can outrun a player with 30% striding boots, and/or hasted, and is immune to damage because of this lag is very frustrating to all players. Tethering made the problem much worse, because you combine annoying AI, laggy collision detection, with a short leash making the monster maybe you got to half health, suddenly teleport back, become invulnerable, and you have to go and start all over again. Which also makes leading monsters off from the group next to impossible, as you get far enough away that they cant see the others - usually thats far enough to zone back - after you have wasted time damaging it.

I do not know what the fix is, or if there is a fix - but it is a serious issue that makes most players angry and frustrated much of the time they are playing a game they otherwise enjoy. If there is some kind of fix that can be done - really someone should look at implementing that fix sooner rather than later, and instead of worrying about whether to change chest loot for the millionth time.

Riggs
07-04-2007, 06:19 AM
Y'know... I thought the mobs turning tail to get a better vantage point on me was kinda neat...

Then came the other night...

When the caster walked up, saw me whackin away on his buddies, turned around, warped himself up on top of a pillar, and proceeded to blast me, knowing very well that in order to hit him I'd have to jump around/goof around with getting on that pillar -_-

I KNEW the mobs were plotting against me. Knew it, knew it, knew it.

Indeed.

It is interesting that monsters can suddenly 'jump' to places on top of pillars..or walls...that are impossible for a player to get to.

Kobold shamans are bad for this - sometimes standing on nothing, as if they are stuck by one hand to a wall, too far up that you cannot hit it with a melee weapon - and then rain down spells on you.

Somewhere way back, players exploited the fact that monsters could not jump (I never played Redwillow before the fix, but apparently that was the big reason), so they fixed monsters. Now monsters can climb/jump anything, even places that are impossible to get to for a player. (I dont have spider climb yet so cannot scale walls like kobold shamans can)

It has perhaps gone too far the other way, but since it is now slanted against players - has been in effect it seems without change for over a year.

I hate to be negative - but seeing the same issues, day after day after day, really gets frustrating.

I would very much like in this game - that if my weapon passes through something - it gets an attack roll, or monsters are not able to cast spells at me while running the other way, or not having to range SpiderKobold every time I run waterworks.

MysticTheurge
07-04-2007, 07:29 AM
I say the enemies stop doing it, just as soon as we stop doing it.

I mean your spellcasters and ranged attackers just stand there while they get pounded on, right?

:rolleyes:

Roguewiz
07-04-2007, 09:26 AM
what i dont understand is why can they hit us but we cant hit them while running

It is more along the lines of a server updating issue. The game doesn't update the locate of the mobs properly. So when you swing, while they appear to be there, they aren't.

Mobs aren't bound by this "rule" when they are chasing us. :(

Conejo
07-04-2007, 09:53 AM
I say the enemies stop doing it, just as soon as we stop doing it.

I mean your spellcasters and ranged attackers just stand there while they get pounded on, right?

:rolleyes:

we have the ability to cast spells even when not facing the monsters? :eek:

AWESOME!

we have the ability to not get hit at all when running away? :eek:

SWEET!

Katrina
07-04-2007, 10:12 AM
we have the ability to cast spells even when not facing the monsters? :eek:

AWESOME!

we have the ability to not get hit at all when running away? :eek:

SWEET!

Monsters are bound by the same rules we are in regards to your examples. It's been stated before by the devs that what we're experiencing is a graphical delay in the animations of the monsters.
In regards to the OP. I don't think the AI is working 100% but it is better then before. The monsters adapt and learn (in their VERY short lifespan) Self preservation is a very high priority to them now and they will run to keep themselves alive (just like my caster will when 3 melee's close in on him)

Conejo
07-04-2007, 10:18 AM
Monsters are bound by the same rules we are in regards to your examples. It's been stated before by the devs that what we're experiencing is a graphical delay in the animations of the monsters.

perception is key. all we can do and react to, as players, is based entirely on our perception of what is happening in the game.

graphical delays in the animations alter perception, and thus alter the reality of the game.

FoxOne
07-04-2007, 10:39 AM
/signed

MysticTheurge
07-04-2007, 10:41 AM
perception is key. all we can do and react to, as players, is based entirely on our perception of what is happening in the game.

graphical delays in the animations alter perception, and thus alter the reality of the game.

I'll grant you that the current implementation of it is buggy (and therefore annoying) but the solution is to fix those problems, not to just make things stand there and "take it." That's also not "fun or challenging."

Mad_Bombardier
07-04-2007, 10:45 AM
not to just make things stand there and "take it." That's also not "fun or challenging."hulk no smash?!? :confused: :(

Conejo
07-04-2007, 10:50 AM
I'll grant you that the current implementation of it is buggy (and therefore annoying) but the solution is to fix those problems, not to just make things stand there and "take it." That's also not "fun or challenging."

i didn't say stand there and take it.

i said fix the runaways.

again: there are more than two directions (currently they have towards the enemy and away from the enemy) despite what the current AI believes.

Harbinder
07-04-2007, 10:56 AM
As far as the bug where you get no attack rolls when the mob is running away ...I think they fixed that in the last 8 hour maintenece update...here's why:

Last night was doing Gateway to Khyber, just my cleric/1 and an archer, on elite while deciding on a titan run on von3-4. Well he aggroed a huge group of trolls like 5 seconds before my symbol timer was up, and we had a crowd control issue, because my next symbol casting got interrupted by trolls, and there were around 15-20 trolls chasing us all of a sudden...

TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT

I wound up swinging away at swarms of trolls that were chasing my friend, the overzealous archer, many of them with their backs turned to me while running at him, and I wasn't missing, all red numbers, every swing, while they were running away...

So thats why I think they fixed it.

Mad_Bombardier
07-04-2007, 11:00 AM
again: there are more than two directions (currently they have towards the enemy and away from the enemy) despite what the current AI believes.Funny you should mention that. Enemies that run into obstacles will climb or turn slightly and run around the hard edge of the obstacle. The sad part about the AI is not that they run, but that they have no instructions on how to handle being trapped on 2 sides. You can herd any mob in the game into a corner, crevice, or alcove then proceed to kill it while it futilely runs at the wall. Proper AI would turn 90-135° after hitting an obstacle in order to manuever.

Missing_Minds
07-04-2007, 11:11 AM
Now, what's REALLY annoying is how mobs (skellies, for example) that are supposed to be slow and clumsy (being dead and all) are soooo quick and agile in the game that you can't keep up with them. In fact, they can run in a circle around you faster than you can turn in place to face them. Now, THAT is FAST!!! I guess death just isn't the handicap it used to be....

You do realize you can change your turning speed so you can keep up with them spinning in place?

This won't help the fact you can't melee hit runners at all.

Crabo
07-04-2007, 11:25 AM
The OP stated that enemies running away is not fun or challenging. Anyone that does not agree with that has either never swung a melee weapon post 4.1 or needs to get their eyes checked.
Some of the observations made here are not the same observations i have made. People are saying they are unable to hit the running mob at all. This is not true and if there was no server lag this would be even more obvious. You need to be in front of the mob to actually hit it..it isnt where you think it is.
This isnt broken, but it isnt fun either.
More of a problem i see is some mobs just stop casting altogether whilst they run from you. One example would be the rakshasha princes in dq1 , they barely throw one spell before they start running laps of the place. No challenge at all, and definitely not fun.
Some people mention these things are no problem because they dont play melee characters. These people lack foresight and cannot see that less and less people play the game every day and unless issues like these are looked at , this trend will continue to make it increasingly difficult to get groups.
Many posters swayed from the OP point. Its just not fun.

iamsamoth0
07-04-2007, 12:13 PM
We get our bath when we run WW, STK and the swim the lighthouse. Then there is the TS lava swim to help clean us up a little.:) Plus I'm sure you can think of several swims, fires, and other events that will just clear the stink right off even a dwarf.:D

Stones run red!!!....hot, hot, hot...

Vardak
07-04-2007, 12:19 PM
I swear that kobold shaman shot that acid spell from out his butt! I'm pretty sure that is not a standard spell.

Racial ability? Perhaps excessive spicy food?

Frodo_Lives
07-04-2007, 12:45 PM
Bah, let em run they will only die tired. :D

However, I do think it is exceptionally annoying that you can't hit them yet they can hit you when they are "running away".

I don't really care if it is a graphical error, AI error, technology error or what. By giving the mobs basically an almost invincible mode that makes it almost impossible to hit while they move at warp speeds, and yet they can still cast spells on you makes some fights very very annoying.

Should the mobs run? **** yes, I'd run too if I was getting stomped. But the mobs shouldn't be impervious to attacks, run faster than a hasted barbarian, and still be able to hit you while doing it. I don't care about the AI, fix that please!

binnsr
07-04-2007, 01:08 PM
We get our bath when we run WW, STK and the swim the lighthouse. Then there is the TS lava swim to help clean us up a little.:) Plus I'm sure you can think of several swims, fires, and other events that will just clear the stink right off even a dwarf.:D
'You stink, dwarf.. stand still while I flamestrike you.'

Desteria
07-04-2007, 02:32 PM
As per D&D 3.5 Skellies are actuyl very fast adn agile as is reflected when you add the skelliton templet to a creatcher it gains 2 dex, and if memory is correct inproved initative as well, now zombies are slow and clumsy.


Yes, it's annoying when the mobs run away. No, it shouldn't be changed. Running away from an opponent you cannot beat is a perfectly rational tactic, as is opening the range when you specialise in missiles and your opponent wants to fight HTH. It's always annoying when the enemy refuses to cooperate in his own destruction. That's life.

Now, what's REALLY annoying is how mobs (skellies, for example) that are supposed to be slow and clumsy (being dead and all) are soooo quick and agile in the game that you can't keep up with them. In fact, they can run in a circle around you faster than you can turn in place to face them. Now, THAT is FAST!!! I guess death just isn't the handicap it used to be....

Gimpster
07-04-2007, 04:42 PM
it's just annoying. fix the A.I.
You might be interested to know that they don't do this anymore on Risia.

However, the current behavior is not annoying, and the new AI is a lot worse.

Puke
07-05-2007, 11:39 AM
It is more along the lines of a server updating issue. The game doesn't update the locate of the mobs properly. So when you swing, while they appear to be there, they aren't.

Mobs aren't bound by this "rule" when they are chasing us. :(

I think you and a couple others are guessing on this. I could be wrong and you actually know how attacks are coded.

Lag is going to be an issue and there will always be issues. It should be that what I see on my end is what I get. That is, if I'm in hitting-distance and I swing, my computer tells the server I swung and was in range and then the server should roll the die or dice and transmit results. This is kind of how it works for faster moving games such as air-air online games. For these games, it's usually the reverse of what you are talking about where it looks like the guy wasn't in firing range or position (on your six) but he hits you and that is because on his end he was in range and position but because of the delay you didn't see him in that position quite yet.

Also, my Fighter has Spring Attack and it seems more of a waste now that the mobs are running around. It seems I'm bouncing off the monster's collision-distance forcefield and I can't quite seem to time my swings right. Before, when a monster would run off, I don't recall any problems. Now I'm whiffing my swings left and right. No die roll, nothing for the most part.

The reverse is actually true though. When I'm being hit and it's a bit laggy, many times I'm taking red-number damage well before the swing animation has carried through. Still, something (my end, or the server's) is quick enough to get that damage to me while the animation lags behind.

Oh, the biggest problem with running monsters is to ranged characters. For some reason, it is impossible to hit a monster running laterally to you with any bow. If you target the monster and fire, your arrow actually flies to where the monster *was*. The game does not lead the arrow for you if you have targeted the monster. If you have not targeted the monster, good luck with your aim just the same. The game should take into account that my 14th lvl Ranger has enough experience to understand lead and should just roll the die anyhow to see if it is a hit or miss. In reality, you get no die roll.

Berjik
07-05-2007, 12:35 PM
Actually I'm pretty sure this also happens with my ranger who use bows, there is no dice roll or anything, even those the mob is running away from me in a straight line and I am pelting him in the back but nothing. He must have some good stern shields.