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Samera
07-02-2007, 09:26 AM
In QA
These items are in QA and are scheduled for Update 4.2: Searing Heights.

General

Players get 3 more weapon set configuration slots, for a total of 7!
Fixed an Auction House bug where it was possible to bid on an auction and receive a different quantity of the item than expected.


UI Improvements

The XP bar should no longer disappear on larger monitors.
Mail

You will now get a warning (and won't be able to detach the money) when you attempt to detach money which would place you over the maximum amount of money you can have.

Auction House

You can now filter your auction house searches by item level. This search is based on the minimum level to use the item. Items with no level requirement are considered level 1 by the filter.
Clothing and Jewelry sections in the auction house are now broken up into multiple categories based the slot the item equips to. There are now a total of ten categories for both of these two sections. Note: Only newly posted auctions will appear in these new categories.

Friends List

Offline friends will no longer show up in the friends list when added or imported if "Hide Offline Friends" is checked.
NEW – Characters you add to your friends list who are anonymous will now appear offline as intended.

Who Panel

NEW – Clicking on the "Show only players looking for group" text will no longer check the checkbox. You now must click on the checkbox directly to select this option.

Rogue Action Boost and Ranger Action Boost have new icons to differentiate them from Human Versatility.


Monsters

NEW – Giant Skeletons will no longer always alternate missile and magical attacks when at range.
NEW – Translucent monsters will no longer reappear "standing" after dying to an effect that normally destroys a body.
NEW – Bezekira particle effects will no longer persist after death.
The spike damage of the Razor Cats is now working properly. Those who hit a razor cat in melee combat will have to make a reflex save or be injured by the spikes. Keep some throwing hammers and/or spearblock items handy.
The fire elemental's Aura of Flame has been fixed. It can no longer be blocked by spell resistance.
Duergar barbarians, bandits, and bards had their alignment corrected. They are now Neutral Evil instead of Lawful Evil.
Higher level wights and ghouls (CR 10 and above) will be able to use their innate abilities like level drain and disease on more of their attacks, rather than only doing these on their “rear back and jump forward” attack. This makes them more like their pen and paper counterparts and will make them a little more challenging. Players will of course still get their saves to resist these effects.


Combat

Weapons with special damage effects no longer cause a sneak attack on an unsuspecting victim to be lost.


Spells

Base cooldowns for Sorcerers reduced by 0.5 seconds for all spells (1.0 second for lingering effects.)
Maximize and Empower options temporarily removed from Fire Shield and Chill Shield - these metamagics were not increasing the amount of damage dealt by the spells but were increasing the spell point cost of the spells.
New Spell:

Holy Sword

Paladin 4
Channels holy power to turn a Blessed Cold Iron weapon into a +5 Holy Cold Iron weapon that grants its wielder a continuous Protection From Evil effect while equipped. The holy weapon is permanent, but is destroyed on dungeon exit.


Tenser's Transformation now grants Simple Weapon Proficiencies in addition to Martial Weapon Proficiencies. Additionally, casting Tenser's Transformation will now also grant proficiency with Throwing Hammers.
Chill Touch now (properly) has a fortitude save to negate the strength damage portion of the spell.
Potentially long-lasting debuff spells like crushing despair, bane, doom, and ray of enfeeblement have been changed so that they are removed by resting at a rest shrine.
Fixed Mind Fog's spell school. Mind Fog is an enchantment, not a conjuration.
The description for the Symbol of Flame spell has been fixed to accurately describe the amount of damage the spell does. The reflex save for this spell has also been fixed. Players and enemy npcs can now attempt a reflex save to reduce damage by half. The spell has always done 5d6 damage, and this has not been changed.


Skills, Feats, & Abilities

Reduced difficulty of detecting traps with Search and Spot, especially at low levels (5 and under).
The Power Critical feats have been upgraded. All of these feats have been consolidated into one. Once you have this feat, you will get a +4 bonus to confirm critical hits with any type of weapon.



Enhancements

The Toughness enhancement lines for dwarves, barbarians, fighters, and paladins have been upgraded. They now give you 5, 10, 15, and 20 additional hit points respectively instead of 5, 5, 5, and 5. They all still have the Toughness feat as a prerequisite.
Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack and Damage enhancements now work on Throwing Hammers.
Cleric and Paladin Unyielding Sovereignty now has significantly longer range (matching other healing spells) and requires line of sight to the target.
The active abilities under Rogue Specializations now show up underneath the passive ability rather than under a second heading.
Way of the Assassin now has three different poisons available for use: Thoughtburn (Int damage and prevents casting for a short time), Icechill (Dex damage and slows the target's attack speed for a short time), and Soulshatter (Lowers the target's spell resistance by 10 and Will saves by 4 for a short time). Only one poison may be active at a time.
Rogue Subtle Backstabber is now an active enhancement that has a toggled stance. While turned on, you will generate less hate on melee attacks.
The Silver Flame Exorcism enhancements now use 10 + (class level) + Charisma Modifier as a DC for the Will and Fortitude saves rather than a fixed save DC. Updated the descriptions to match.
An enemy poisoned by Thoughtburn (from the Way of the Assassin ability) now displays appropriate particle effects.
Undying Call now properly differentiates between Drow and "real" elves.
The various enhancements that summon creatures (Iron/Steel/Mithral Companion and Vulkoor’s Avatar) can now only be summoned in dungeons. You will no longer trigger the cooldown (and lose the attempt) if you try to summon them elsewhere. Summoning these creatures will now also break stealth.
Iron Companion no longer lists Cannith Repair II as a potential prerequisite, since a character with Cannith Repair II has already unlocked the enhancement through the Least Mark of Making.
Ranger Vermin Empathy enhancement prerequisites changed to: Ranger Level 2 (from 11). Ranger Extra Empathy I and any one of the following: Favored Enemy: Vermin, Ranger Desert Lore 2, Ranger Swamp Lore 2, or Ranger Extra Empathy IV.
Ranger Elemental Empathy enhancement prerequisites changed to: Ranger Level 4 (from 12). Ranger Extra Empathy I and any one of the following: Favored Enemy: Elemental, Ranger Energy Resistance Boost III, or Ranger Extra Empathy IV.
Bard Music of the Dead enhancement prerequisite changed to: Bard Level 6 (from 11). Any one of the following: Bard Extra Song IV or Bard Virtuoso I.
Bard Music of the Makers enhancement prerequisite changed to: Bard Level 9 (from 11). Any one of the following: Bard Extra Song IV, Bard Virtuoso I, Warforged Construct Thinking III, Lesser Dragonmark of Making.
The Follower of the <diety> Enhancement Lines now grant sub-abilities:

Tira's Champion: (Associated with Follower of the Silver Flame) Activate this ability to grant weapon proficiency in longbows to yourself or a friend until the target next rests. Consumes a use of turn undead.
Similar sub-abilities exist for the other faiths.

General

Extra Dragonmark I

Cost: 1 Action Point
Prereqs: Any Dragonmark, Level 2 Character, 3 Action Points Spent.
Benefit: Gain an additional use of your Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks per rest.

Extra Dragonmark 2

Cost: 2 Action Point
Prereqs: Any Dragonmark, Level 6 Character, 18 Action Points Spent.
Benefit: Gain an additional use of your Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks per rest.

Extra Dragonmark 3

Cost: 3 Action Point
Prereqs: Any Dragonmark, Level 10 Character, 33 Action Points Spent.
Benefit: Gain an additional use of your Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks per rest.

Extra Dragonmark 4

Cost: 4 Action Point
Prereqs: Any Dragonmark, Level 14 Character, 48 Action Points Spent.
Benefit: Gain an additional use of your Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks per rest.


Warforged

Warforged Brute Fighting I

Cost: 1 Action Point
Prereqs: Warforged Level 2, 3 Action Points Spent
Benefit: Activate this ability to cause your melee attacks to generate 10% more hate, making enemies more likely to attack you.

Warforged Brute Fighting II

Cost: 2 Action Points
Prereqs: Warforged Level 6, Warforged Brute Fighting I, 18 Action Points Spent
Benefit: Activate this ability to cause your melee attacks to generate 15% more hate, making enemies more likely to attack you.

Warforged Brute Fighting III

Cost: 3 Action Points
Prereqs: Warforged Level 10, Warforged Brute Fighting II, 33 Action Points Spent
Benefit: Activate this ability to cause your melee attacks to generate 20% more hate, making enemies more likely to attack you.

Warforged Brute Fighting IV

Cost: 4 Action Points
Prereqs: Warforged Level 14, Warforged Brute Fighting III, 48 Action Points Spent
Benefit: Activate this ability to cause your melee attacks to generate 25% more hate, making enemies more likely to attack you.




Items

Whenever you repair an item there is a chance it will be permanently damaged. Up until now, it has been impossible to see which items were permanently damaged when repairing items in bulk. From now on an alert will be sent to the chat window as well as the middle of your screen.
The House Jorasco Divine Reagent Vendor now carries Blessed Cold Iron Greatswords, Bastard Swords, Longswords, Shortswords, Scimitars, Warhammers, Rapiers, Dwarven Waraxes, Khopeshes, Mauls, and Heavy Picks.
New enchanted food and drinks are available in all taverns. Warforged also have new enchanted balms and tonics. The new drink and tonic restores 2500sp over 1 minute. The new food heals 500hp over 1 minute.The new balm heals 450hp over 1 minute.
Corrected the caster levels for Wands of Flame Arrow and Wands of Holy Smite to appropriate values for their spell level. Wand of Flame Arrow was reduced to Caster Level 5. Wand of Holy Smite was increased to Caster Level 7. Wands of Resist Energy was changed from Caster Level 1 to 3. These changes will affect the UMD difficulty of activating the wands as well as the wands gold value.
The Helm of the Black Dragon and the Helm of the Blue Dragon will now appear in the correct Clothing section of the Auction House. They were so pretty they were mistakenly put in the Jewelry category.
Randomly generated thrown Returning weapons will now correctly bypass their targets Damage Reduction.
Clarified the description of the Nullcloth Gown to make it obvious that the 15% Spell Failure applies to all spell casters, even Divine casters.
Corrected the naming for stacks of higher level Barkskin and Shield of Faith potions. They will now indicate their additional bonus eg Potions of Shield of Faith (+5).
You will no longer be able to attach items to mail messages that are not currently in your inventory (i.e., an item that is in your bank).


NPCs

Several enemy characters from the Aurum have had their alignment changed to Lawful Evil.
Many npcs were incorrectly insisting that they were "Race: Elf" in the examination window. This information has been removed from these lying npcs.
Niles Cage (Stormreach Harbor) is no longer performing an appendectomy on himself.


Quests

Made a change to help prevent quest items from becoming inaccessible if the party member who was carrying them dies or leaves the quest.
Ataraxia's Haven

Players will now always be able to exit the mine cave without difficulty.

Cerulean Hills

Rare Encounter Garunt will now have a treasure chest.

NEW – Delera's Graveyard

Necromancer's Lair

Fixed some older traps that were not working properly. Watch out!


NEW – Garl's Tomb

The skeleton captain will now reappear if it falls into the water. Previously, if it fell off, it would not reappear, and it would not be possible to obtain its key.

NEW – The Low Road

Fixed a couple hidden doors which could not be detected before.

Menechtarun

The winds have shifted the sands of Menechtarun, revealing ancient roads.
Many of the named minibosses out in the desert of Menechtarun have gotten new supplies or found new sources of power. They are a fair amount stronger than before and will put up a better fight.

The Missing Ward

The hard and elite versions of Necromancer Gerti have had their spell lists fixed. They will no longer repeatedly cast the sleep spell.

Prison of the Planes

Cochitlehua has remembered that he has "Teleport Without Error" as an at-will spell-like ability.

NEW – Redfang's Lair

Bile the scorpion will no longer appear before it's ready to fight.

Sorrowdusk Island

The named gargoyle Vermilo now functions properly (and his chest spawns on the ground).

Stormcleave Outpost

Made several changes to the pillars:

The Mephits have had their hide skill lowered so they should be easier to find
The Mephits now have a 60 meter leash so they shouldn't wander away
Changed an objective to read 'Alight the Pillars' to make it more clear that they need to be fully lit and fully active rather than just partially lit.


NEW – Waterworks

Clan Tunnelworm

Fixed a valve so it can be used more than once to prevent players from getting stuck in a room.


Xorian Cipher

The three named spectres in the Xorian Cipher quest, the Urdak brothers, have been changed into skeletons so they can no longer occasionally flee and leave you stranded in a locked room. They will be slightly more challenging to beat than they were before.



In Development
These items are in development and are scheduled for Module 5: The Accursed Ascension (Litany of the Dead Parts 3 & 4).

UI Improvements

Added active/toggle/passive usage to action tooltips.
Tooltips that display long cooldown periods will display them in minutes and seconds – e.g., 2 minutes 30 seconds instead of 150 seconds.
Action tooltips will inform the user when an action is useable in water, not useable in a brawl, or when it is useable only in public. They will also display the target type for the action.
Tooltips for skills now include the key ability.
Tooltips for spells and feats now include the save DC and save type(s).
Shopping

You can now ctrl-click on an item in a shop to purchase the item in bulk. A pop-up dialog will prompt you to enter the number of items to purchase. Note: This dialog is only used when purchasing items. There is still no way to control the number of items you sell from a stack.
When items in a shop are alphabetized, they are sorted first by base name (e.g. sword, dagger) and then by prefix (e.g. masterwork, vorpal).
When you add items to the shopping cart, the cumulative cost of the items in the cart will affect the "can afford" status of the items available for purchase / repair.
If a player's haggle skill changes, then the shopping cart display price will now update to reflect the change.

Spells

Spell tooltips now include blocks that describe whether or not a spell can be resisted, and what the specific material component is for a given spell (if any).
Spell tooltips now include a metamagic information block. This block lists the kinds of metamagic that can affect this spell.



Spells

The Crushing Despair FX are now persistent.


Skills, Feats, & Abilities

The number of Turn Undead attempts per rest will now be calculated on the current displayed Charisma modifier. Previously only permanent changes to Charisma from level advancement and tomes were counted.
The Listen skill now helps you detect hidden monsters.


Enhancements

Halfling luck, instead of only affecting Reflex saves, is now three distinct enhancement chains. These are not exclusive.

Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I

Prereq: Halfling Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves.

Halfling Luck (Fortitude) II

Prereq: Halfling Level 5, 14 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves.

Halfling Luck (Fortitude) III

Prereq: Halfling Level 9, 29 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Fortitude) II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants a +3 bonus to Fortitude saves.

Halfling Luck (Reflex) I

Prereq: Halfling Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants a +1 bonus to Reflex saves.

Halfling Luck (Reflex) II

Prereq: Halfling Level 5, 14 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants a +2 bonus to Reflex saves.

Halfling Luck (Reflex) III

Prereq: Halfling Level 9, 29 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Reflex) II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants a +3 bonus to Reflex saves.

Halfling Luck (Will) I

Prereq: Halfling Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants a +1 bonus to Will saves.

Halfling Luck (Will) II

Prereq: Halfling Level 5, 14 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Will) I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants a +2 bonus to Will saves.

Halfling Luck (Will) III

Prereq: Halfling Level 9, 29 Action Points spent, Halfling Luck (Will) II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants a +3 bonus to Will saves.


Human Versatility has undergone some revisions, and now grants five subabilities. Instead of being restricted only to a skill boost, Humans may now display their versatility by gaining a short duration increase to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class. These boosts draw from one common pool of 5.

Human Versatility I

Prereq: Human Level 1
Cost: 1 Action Point
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +2 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.

Human Versatility - Skills I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack I.Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class I. Activate this ability to receive a +2 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.


Human Versatility II

Prereq: Human Level 4, 10 Action Points Spent, Human Versatility I
Cost: 2 Action Points
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +3 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.

Human Versatility - Skills II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class II. Activate this ability to receive a +3 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.


Human Versatility III

Prereq: Human Level 7, 21 Action Points Spent, Human Versatility II
Cost: 3 Action Points
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +4 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.

Human Versatility - Skills III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class III. Activate this ability to receive a +4 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.


Human Versatility IV

Prereq: Human Level 10, 32 Action Points Spent, Human Versatility III
Cost: 4 Action Points
Grants the ability to display your versatility as a +5 bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.

Human Versatility - Skills IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to skills for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Damage IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to damage for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Attack IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to attack rolls for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Saves IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to saves for 20 seconds.
Human Versatility - Armor Class IV. Activate this ability to receive a +5 bonus to armor class for 20 seconds.

Ziggy
07-02-2007, 09:27 AM
NEW – Delera's Graveyard

Necromancer's Lair
Fixed some older traps that were not working properly. Watch out!


Huh?


Players get 3 more weapon set configuration slots, for a total of 7!
Sweet.



NEW – The Low Road
Fixed a couple hidden doors which could not be detected before.

There were hidden doors in the low road?

Freeman
07-02-2007, 09:31 AM
Still no fix to Crippling Strike and ranged weapons. Three months and counting...

Coldin
07-02-2007, 09:34 AM
There were hidden doors in the low road?

That's what I was thinking. Guess we couldn't see them. :cool:



NEW – Characters you add to your friends list who are anonymous will now appear offline as intended.

Still say that whole change was a bad move despite the poll. At least make some way to be anonymous from the Who List but not to the Friend's List.

Ziggy
07-02-2007, 09:35 AM
That's what I was thinking. Guess we couldn't see them. :cool:

Aye now im gonna have to go back through this to find em.:D

Riddikulus
07-02-2007, 09:38 AM
Still no fix to Crippling Strike and ranged weapons. Three months and counting...
Isn't this the fix?

Weapons with special damage effects no longer cause a sneak attack on an unsuspecting victim to be lost.
Well, if not at least my rogue is happy. I abandoned ranged focus for melee a long time ago.

Freeman
07-02-2007, 09:40 AM
Isn't this the fix?

Well, if not at least my rogue is happy. I abandoned ranged focus for melee a long time ago.

No, that issue has nothing to do with the problem with Crippling Strike. The two issues have been continually confused since both problems appeared in the last module though. I don't want to abandon ranged combat, although I'm beginning to lean in that direction.

ArkoHighStar
07-02-2007, 09:42 AM
Still no fix to Crippling Strike and ranged weapons. Three months and counting...

I have pretty much given up on this ever getting fixed, not when Turbine has more important things like ensuring dwarves have enough hitpoints to worry about.

Ziggy
07-02-2007, 09:43 AM
Isn't this the fix?

Well, if not at least my rogue is happy. I abandoned ranged focus for melee a long time ago.
nope thats the fix for a flaming light mace not giving sneak attack damage, when a monster is bluffed.

Karos
07-02-2007, 09:43 AM
Still say that whole change was a bad move despite the poll. At least make some way to be anonymous from the Who List but not to the Friend's List.
The poll was based on what was technically possible at the time, the dev working on it said they had to set the value one way or the other. Hopefully, someday, they'll upgrade the code they are using for that to allow for more options, but for now I'm happy with the new friends list.

Yaga_Nub
07-02-2007, 09:43 AM
Well the list of NEW items is incredibly short and mostly cosmetic so I hope this means that next week (Monday?) is when 4.2 will go in.

Freeman
07-02-2007, 09:43 AM
I have pretty much given up on this ever getting fixed, not when Turbine has more important things like ensuring dwarves have enough hitpoints to worry about.

I haven't given up yet. I'm just wondering if this fix will take longer than the fix for Song of Freedom. It still has a couple of months to go before it earns that distinction. Of course, the problems with ranged combat in general(shots with no dice rolls) have been around even longer...

ArkoHighStar
07-02-2007, 09:44 AM
Isn't this the fix?

Well, if not at least my rogue is happy. I abandoned ranged focus for melee a long time ago.

The issue with crippling strike is quite simple and easily demonstrated, get a bow and shoot something within sneak attack range, you will see the sneak attack dmg and combat log entry but no entry for the crippling strike strength dmg, in other words sneak attack with a ranged weapon does not give you crippling strike damage like melee sneak attacks do.

ArkoHighStar
07-02-2007, 09:45 AM
Well the list of NEW items is incredibly short and mostly cosmetic so I hope this means that next week (Monday?) is when 4.2 will go in.


Quarion and Samera have indicated that is the target week, if nothing goes wrong.

Aeneas
07-02-2007, 09:47 AM
this is the least exciting list of weekly development activities i've ever seen

Freeman
07-02-2007, 09:48 AM
...if nothing goes wrong.

I think my brain just crashed :p

binnsr
07-02-2007, 09:50 AM
Aye now im gonna have to go back through this to find em.:D

My rogue in beta and headstart always got spot messages by the secret doors that are opened with the levers, but could never find them..

It's been a while since I took anyone with a decent spot through there, so I don't recall if they still give off spot messages or not.

Ziggy
07-02-2007, 09:53 AM
My rogue in beta and headstart always got spot messages by the secret doors that are opened with the levers, but could never find them..

It's been a while since I took anyone with a decent spot through there, so I don't recall if they still give off spot messages or not.
im gonna be disappointed if its those 2 doors.:(

But ill still go check it out once its fixed.:D

Karos
07-02-2007, 09:58 AM
im gonna be disappointed if its those 2 doors.:(

But ill still go check it out once its fixed.:D

I just ran through on risia with detect secret doors up and the 2 doors with the levers for the gates with the crates popped up.

Karos
07-02-2007, 09:59 AM
well thats just silly.

oh well at least i wont have to waste the time.

Thanks Karos.:D

What else do I have to do when my server is down? :)

Ziggy
07-02-2007, 10:00 AM
I just ran through on risia with detect secret doors up and the 2 doors with the levers for the gates with the crates popped up.
well thats just silly.

oh well at least i wont have to waste the time.

Thanks Karos.:D

EightyFour
07-02-2007, 10:03 AM
Sounds like they have been working on all that database stuff, prob. why most of the the stuff is cosmetic. However still glad for the extra 3 weapon slots.

ArkoHighStar
07-02-2007, 10:07 AM
I think my brain just crashed :p

Now I can't find the post maybe next week is off


oops found ithttp://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1214793#post1214793

Mad_Bombardier
07-02-2007, 10:09 AM
Still going through with the Toughness change? le sigh... :(

Vinos
07-02-2007, 10:09 AM
Still going through with the Toughness change? le sigh... :(

It's not that big a deal really. Casters still rule the end game.

Ziggy
07-02-2007, 10:10 AM
What else do I have to do when my server is down? :)
oh you evil ninja you.:mad:

Im watching you.:cool:

Balthazar_No_Oni
07-02-2007, 10:23 AM
It's not that big a deal really. Casters still rule the end game.

Now thats no joke!!!!!

Damn casters! stealing all my kills!!!! :)

Freeman
07-02-2007, 10:48 AM
Wow, this is the quietest WDA thread I've seen in a long time. Didn't anyone find anything at all offensive in this week's entries? :p

Solik
07-02-2007, 11:10 AM
Well, it's a sparse set of entries, almost all of it bugfixes. That's alright given the optimization stuff. Maybe some other work for future updates (or failed attempts to fix bugs, which is how I personally spent last week).

bigal4458
07-02-2007, 11:14 AM
With the recent changes going in game and with all the uproar being caused, i'm under the impression that "less is more" is the theme for this update, and i'm fine with it.

Although new content is needed pretty fast, the boredom levels are rising at a record pace around Stormreach.

Freeman
07-02-2007, 11:16 AM
With the recent changes going in game and with all the uproar being caused, i'm under the impression that "less is more" is the theme for this update, and i'm fine with it.

Although new content is needed pretty fast, the boredom levels are rising at a record pace around Stormreach.

I agree that less is more, unless the less part applies to bug fixes ;)

smatt
07-02-2007, 11:21 AM
Nice, nice, and nicer! Love the changes :)

I like the balanced appraoch of not only tryign to add new content, but fixing some problems, and making adjustments to some of the maddening issues with old tool bar, charachter sheet, etc situations.

If all goes well, good wrok Turbine! :)

EspyLacopa
07-02-2007, 11:47 AM
It's not that big a deal really. Casters still rule the end game.
Like the arcane psychoes?

DKerrigan
07-02-2007, 11:50 AM
Aye now im gonna have to go back through this to find em.:D

Yeah, there's a lever that you can backspace target, presumably behind a hidden wall across the water, that will open that first grate with the crates behind it...

DKerrigan
07-02-2007, 11:56 AM
I just ran through on risia with detect secret doors up and the 2 doors with the levers for the gates with the crates popped up.

The gate farthest in could always be targeted and activated before, like any other door...wonder if that functionality's gone...hmmm...

DKerrigan
07-02-2007, 11:58 AM
I guess the Skeleton Guard in Garl's was a situational problem...I ran it for the first time last month and he fell in the water 6-7 times and always reappeared at full health on the ledge.

/shrug

Lorien_the_First_One
07-02-2007, 12:13 PM
Wow, this is the quietest WDA thread I've seen in a long time. Didn't anyone find anything at all offensive in this week's entries? :p

Yes I can't believe Monks aren't out yet!

And where are my Orcs? And I don't mean half Orcs, I want to play the real thing!

And Blackguard are in the game, why don't you let us play them?

And I think if you put in a few hours of OT the Devs would have on prob getting us to L20 by next week's release - what the **** is the problem with them!?!?

Um... ya that good enough? :rolleyes:

Freeman
07-02-2007, 12:19 PM
And I think if you put in a few hours of OT the Devs would have on prob getting us to L20 by next week's release - what the **** is the problem with them!?!?

Next week! I'm paying their salaries, so why should I have to wait that long for level 20? I want to be level 20, with all the uber-loot, the next time I log into the game. If my demands are not met, a disaster beyond your reckoning will occur.


Your humble servant,
O.G.

:p

Alavatar
07-02-2007, 12:32 PM
well thats just silly.

oh well at least i wont have to waste the time.

Thanks Karos.:D

My guess is that the secret doors they are fixing are the two just before the fork switch (the one where the left is a trap and the right is an ambush). As Dkerrigan said, there are switches behind those doors that could always be selected via backspace, but no way to get to them.

Gimpster
07-02-2007, 01:21 PM
Least impressive dev activity in a while!

smatt
07-02-2007, 01:38 PM
It's not that big a deal really. Casters still rule the end game.


That is until they get smart and do something about the endless mana fountains outside of quests.. ;)

Casters rule end game in PnP as well.... All thsi crying about nerfing and all.. They need a big nerf to pop that balloon head most of them have these days :)

Spookydodger
07-02-2007, 02:06 PM
Please don't forget that among that "least impressive dev activity" is a major hardware overhaul. Maybe put that in the WDA to remind people. :D

Freeman
07-02-2007, 02:09 PM
Please don't forget that among that "least impressive dev activity" is a major hardware overhaul. Maybe put that in the WDA to remind people. :D

Ahh, but I doubt the developers were back there unplugging old equipment and plugging new equipment in, so it really shouldn't have impacted things on the development side much at all.

Spookydodger
07-02-2007, 02:09 PM
That is until they get smart and do something about the endless mana fountains outside of quests.. ;)

Casters rule end game in PnP as well.... All thsi crying about nerfing and all.. They need a big nerf to pop that balloon head most of them have these days :)

Considering that a 1st level Wizard gets to cast a singular spell (practically), I don't mind them being spectacular in the end.

It still requires multiple people to make things run smooth, diversity among types is easier to work with than not, and there simply are some monsters and situations where you can't easily overcome it with a PK, Destruction, Finger of Death, or other all-or-little/nothing spell.

EspyLacopa
07-02-2007, 02:34 PM
Considering that a 1st level Wizard gets to cast a singular spell (practically), I don't mind them being spectacular in the end.

It still requires multiple people to make things run smooth, diversity among types is easier to work with than not, and there simply are some monsters and situations where you can't easily overcome it with a PK, Destruction, Finger of Death, or other all-or-little/nothing spell.

Ummm.

If you're playing a lv1 Wizard in a PnP game and you only have *1* level1 spell slot. . .you're not really playing a wizard. Cause that implies 11 Int. Any higher and you get a bonus lv1 spell slot.

MysticTheurge
07-02-2007, 03:13 PM
Still going through with the Toughness change? le sigh... :(

Indeed.

DKerrigan
07-02-2007, 03:20 PM
Still going through with the Toughness change? le sigh... :(

And my Dwarven Paladin is thankful :D

Rouge
07-02-2007, 03:53 PM
In QA
These items are in QA and are scheduled for Update 4.2: Searing Heights.

General

Friends List

Offline friends will no longer show up in the friends list when added or imported if "Hide Offline Friends" is checked.
NEW – Characters you add to your friends list who are anonymous will now appear offline as intended.



There should be a way to show which of your friends are online, most people only go anon to not be pestered by the public, but don't mind seeing friends sending them tells.

In SWG if you had a person on your friends list and they had you on yours you could find them. Would it be possible to impliment something like this here? If both people are on eachother's friends list then both would be visable to eachother. Perhaps a check box "allow friends to see me"

Vinos
07-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Indeed.

I am still failing to see how this is a big deal. especially with all the 250 HP wizzy builds you see out there. I'll take a PK or destruction over 50 more HP's any day.

DKerrigan
07-02-2007, 04:32 PM
There should be a way to show which of your friends are online, most people only go anon to not be pestered by the public, but don't mind seeing friends sending them tells.

In SWG if you had a person on your friends list and they had you on yours you could find them. Would it be possible to impliment something like this here? If both people are on eachother's friends list then both would be visable to eachother. Perhaps a check box "allow friends to see me"

Well Red, while that would be a great idea that same sentiment was echoed in the poll that Turbine ran a couple months ago and Phax, the dev in charge, so to speak, said that the current code is either an all or nothing situation.


Unfortunately, there are some problems with doing this related to how an anonymous player's information is handled. I am annoyed by the whole plat seller issue as well and can sympathize. I hope we will be able to do something in the future to make going non-anonymous less frustrating, but at the moment this is the best possible solution.

The overriding sentiment from that thread was that mutually listed friends should see each other regardless of status, so the friends list works (can see friends online) and the anonymous function works (plat spammers can't see you). Hopefully they'll revamp the anon coding at some point to make this a reality.

Scholar
07-02-2007, 06:44 PM
Well Red, while that would be a great idea that same sentiment was echoed in the poll that Turbine ran a couple months ago and Phax, the dev in charge, so to speak, said that the current code is either an all or nothing situation.

Well, if it is an all or nothing proposition, then leave it alone. Don't change it. The only characters I have that go anon are my clerics. I have them that way so I am not spammed by the pug community with invites. I DO NOT go anon to prevent friends of mine from seeing me online. This change sounds like it is going to negatively impact my online experience. I will be stuck with choosing to be seen by all or not be seen by anyone. Why would anyone want it that way?



The overriding sentiment from that thread was that mutually listed friends should see each other regardless of status, so the friends list works (can see friends online) and the anonymous function works (plat spammers can't see you). Hopefully they'll revamp the anon coding at some point to make this a reality.

If they can't make this a reality, or something along these lines, then they shouldn't change it.

MysticTheurge
07-02-2007, 07:13 PM
I am still failing to see how this is a big deal.

The problem is a couple fold:

Dwarves didn't need the help.

You're giving more HP to the people who had more HP to begin with, further widening the gap between the haves and the have nots. Mod 3.3 was actually supposed to be countering this very problem.

You're also hamstringing the entire conceptual system of the new enhancement system: You pay more to get more of the same thing. The new enhancement system encourages a broader approach (partly to affect the change mentioned above) and charges you more to really push any given number as high as possible. It does this through diminishing returns. The first tier of an enhancement costs X and gives you Y. The second tier costs 2x and gives you Y. The third tier costs 3x and still only gives you Y. This makes for some real, serious choices when it comes to character building. You have to decide whether another Y is really worth that much to you or if you'd be better off getting something else for cheaper. The change to the Toughness enhancements doesn't work this way at all. You keep paying X for Y the whole time, just in bigger chunks.

If you really decided to say "Hey, screw the enhancement system, we never liked it anyway" then why the heck are you doing this just for toughness enhancements? Why isn't everything giving a bigger bonus for higher tiers? Shouldn't skills give +1, +3, +6 and +10 instead of +1, +2, +3 and +4? Shouldn't each tier of a spell point enhancement give more spell points than last? Of course, once you go there, you've created huge gaps in people's potential bonuses/pools and you've broken the game again.


especially with all the 250 HP wizzy builds you see out there.

The 250 HP wizard builds are part of the problem. They're going to be dwarves, they're going to have taken toughness and the enhancements. And now they're going to be 280 HP wizard builds. Except that other wizards don't have those options and so they have maybe 100 HPs.

And the game gets that much harder to balance. A 280 HP wizard doesn't care that a creature hits for 80-100 HPs cause they can take a shot or two of that while they spam off another PK or FoD, but a 100 HP wizard does.


I'll take a PK or destruction over 50 more HP's any day.

This is an invalid comparison and really has no bearing on the discussion.

MysticTheurge
07-02-2007, 07:14 PM
Why would anyone want it that way?

So the plat farmer who put me on his friends list (entirely without my permission and outside of my control) doesn't know when I'm online and when I'm not.

binnsr
07-02-2007, 07:38 PM
So the plat farmer who put me on his friends list (entirely without my permission and outside of my control) doesn't know when I'm online and when I'm not.

If I get mails from plat sellers (not farmers -- most players are plat farmers :D) whether I'm online or not, do you really think that they don't have scripts/bots/macros to send mass mails - regardless of online/offline status. They've gradually built a list of *all* characters in the world, and send them to everyone.

Aldmare
07-02-2007, 08:50 PM
So let's not pay attention to the splash screent hat says, "New update for subscribers in June". Afterall, it is July now.. so anyway, when is 4.2 coming out?

Riddikulus
07-02-2007, 09:56 PM
So let's not pay attention to the splash screent hat says, "New update for subscribers in June". Afterall, it is July now.. so anyway, when is 4.2 coming out?
They misspelled "July".

Small typo, it's only 2 letters off. :D

Vinos
07-02-2007, 11:47 PM
The problem is a couple fold:


The 250 HP wizard builds are part of the problem. They're going to be dwarves, they're going to have taken toughness and the enhancements. And now they're going to be 280 HP wizard builds. Except that other wizards don't have those options and so they have maybe 100 HPs.

And the game gets that much harder to balance. A 280 HP wizard doesn't care that a creature hits for 80-100 HPs cause they can take a shot or two of that while they spam off another PK or FoD, but a 100 HP wizard does.

But like anything there IS a trade off. Sure you can have 100 more HP's and you're gonna need them becuase you're gonna have a harder time landing those PK's and FoD's.



This is an invalid comparison and really has no bearing on the discussion.

Not really. You can either have the extra HP or have a very effective PK or FoD. I think it's very relavent and the thing people keep forgetting.



MT I hate arguing with you(since you tend to be right) but this is not that big a deal. so a dwarf can get an extra 50 HP or so but it will cost him 10 AP's that won't be spent on tactics or things like spell enhancers. It's a trade off. You want to be a 100 HP FoD machine you can. You want to be a 250 HP wiz who just self-buffs and melees you can too. I don't see someone doing both. I would also argue that HP's are ont as gamebreaking as skills or SP's. Having 50 extra HP really doesn't amount to much given the disposable nature of them and the fact that they are easy to replenish. However have an extra +10 to a skill(if we used the toughness example on other enhancements which seems to be the biggest gripe here) would be FAR more game-breaking. I would also say the same for using the toughness example on Spell points or spell enhancements. Spell points being generally harder to replenish and spell damage for spells like firewall would make them even more powerful. Skills, SP, etc... > HP's. But I don't think that we will be able to change each others minds so we'll agree to disagree.

Lorien_the_First_One
07-03-2007, 12:15 AM
Ahh, but I doubt the developers were back there unplugging old equipment and plugging new equipment in, so it really shouldn't have impacted things on the development side much at all.

I don't suppose that it would occur to you that you wouldn't want anything in the Dev activity the week before an update... you want them making sure what is coming out right, not continuing to code new stuff for which there won't be time to adequately test and thus will be buggy.

Hakushi
07-03-2007, 12:27 AM
Offline friends will no longer show up in the friends list when added or imported if "Hide Offline Friends" is checked.


you mean I will no longer be able to see if my friends are online because a lot use the anonymous. Are you completely missing the point or what? Are anonymous really supposed to hide from their friends??? They are using that because it's the best way to avoid plat farmers, and also to avoid blind invites. With a change like that, why not completely remove the friends list because it will become completely useless.

Scholar
07-03-2007, 05:56 AM
So the plat farmer who put me on his friends list (entirely without my permission and outside of my control) doesn't know when I'm online and when I'm not.

Which means it stops, at most, one or two tells an evening. If it even stops them. So, to "fix" this issue we take away the ability of any of your friends to see you online. Mystic, are you trying to tell me you really prefer their fix to the way it is now?

dbaGuru
07-03-2007, 06:35 AM
I like alot of the new changes but are you REALLY SERIOUS about the total rewards from 3 chests in a single part of WW being 59 gold 3 scrolls (only 1 i didnt already know) and 2 potions???

Are you trying to keep new players(characters out of the game)?

I soloed WW since there are rarely enough peeps online to group, and went through nearly 40 heal light potions on parts 1&2.

If you are trying to slow down the inflation you created with the auction houses why not cap items max sell prices to their base prices instead of letting items that are valued at 10s of thousands of gold sell for millions of gold???

After all since vendors pay a fraction of the value for an item, getting its full value is a huge increase!

D&D is a midevil setting for the most part with magic thrown in. Do you think that any Lord or King in such an setting would really allow mere common folk to do that? They become too much of a danger to the ruling power base with the single sale of an item!

Freeman
07-03-2007, 06:48 AM
I don't suppose that it would occur to you that you wouldn't want anything in the Dev activity the week before an update... you want them making sure what is coming out right, not continuing to code new stuff for which there won't be time to adequately test and thus will be buggy.

First of all, if it makes it into the WDA, it has already usually passed their internal testing. The only testing after that is on Risia. Since the update has only been on Risia for a few days now, any new content added now wouldn't be that different from everything else being added.

Second, my priority isn't that the new content be bug free. Bugs happen in code, and no amount of testing is going to prevent that from happening. What I am concerned with are the bugs that still haven't been fixed since the last module. If this is the last WDA before the July update, then the next chance will be the module sometime in August. I don't know about you, but I happen to be fond of having my class abilities working correctly. That's why it is irritating to have had a broken one for almost three months now.

MysticTheurge
07-03-2007, 07:28 AM
But like anything there IS a trade off. Sure you can have 100 more HP's and you're gonna need them becuase you're gonna have a harder time landing those PK's and FoD's.

Not really no. A dwarven wizard can max out both intelligence and constitution (for a stat array of 8 8 20 18 8 8) and if you decide not to max out con, but settle for an 18 there, you've got 6 other points to spread around (meaning you can do things like 8 10 18 18 10 10 or 8 14 18 18 8 8 and so on).

The 10 enhancement points you spent on extra hit points aren't really detracting from your ability to cast PK or FoD either. The only enhancements that help with that are Spell Penetration, Energy of the Scholar and Wizard's Intelligence. Maxing out those three lines plus dwarven toughness is a 44 point enhancement array meaning you've got another 8 points to toss around (Dwarven Constitution I and II cost 6 and get you another 14 hit points).


It's a trade off.

It's less of a trade off than every other enhancement line is now, because you don't have to pay more to get less the higher you push it.


You want to be a 100 HP FoD machine you can. You want to be a 250 HP wiz who just self-buffs and melees you can too. I don't see someone doing both.

Well, that's your mistake right there. You absolutely can do both. A wizard could either spend four feats on +2 to saves for PK and FoD, or you could spend those four feats on 68 extra hit points (and as a dwarf add another 50 on top of that). Personally, as a cleric, I don't have any Spell Focus(Necro) feats and I destruct the majority of the things I cast it on, so that +2 to saves really isn't getting you that much.


I would also argue that HP's are ont as gamebreaking as skills or SP's.

Which is an entirely separate issue and one that's been annoying me to no end for quite some time now.

HPs are only "less powerful" than SPs (or anything else) because Turbine has artificially manufactured an environment that works that way. If we didn't have nigh-unlimited access to healing magic hit points would be a "managed resource" just like spell points. It would matter a lot more when you got hit.

But even setting that aside, it's become pretty clear that HP is king at high levels. It's replaced AC as the thing to build for. And the biggest problem is that Turbine isn't learning from their mistakes. They totally ****ed AC up at launch. They gave out too many bonuses to too fast, and more specifically they gave out unmatchable bonuses to certain subsections of people (Paladins, Dwarven Fighters). This led to the whole Haves/Have Nots problem where if you didn't build for an AC in the 60s (or whetever it was back then) you might as well not be wearing armor at all.

Update 3.3 went a ways to correcting that problem, and to a degree it's simply faded away because AC is less important at higher levels, but the Have/Have Nots issue is one that is still problematic. Things like the increasing attack progression, racial enhancements to skills, and now, even more than ever, toughness enhancements widen the gap between those who have a thing and those who don't. The more you do that the harder the game becomes to balance in any meaningful way.


Having 50 extra HP really doesn't amount to much given the disposable nature of them and the fact that they are easy to replenish. However have an extra +10 to a skill(if we used the toughness example on other enhancements which seems to be the biggest gripe here) would be FAR more game-breaking. I would also say the same for using the toughness example on Spell points or spell enhancements. Spell points being generally harder to replenish and spell damage for spells like firewall would make them even more powerful.

And yes, when you apply this logic to other factors of characters it becomes even more obvious how patently ridiculous it is. But you seem to think that for some reason it's "OK" to do for hit points (because they're not that big a deal) and it's not ok to do for anything else. I simply fail to see how that makes any logical sense at all. It's the same principle, just applied to two different stats.

One last question. You seem to be arguing this entirely from a standpoint of "It's happening, and it's not that big a deal" but there's one question that no one seems to be able to answer.

Why did this need to happen in the first place? Were dwarven fighter-types really hurting for hit points? Did they really need the extra help? Were people not taking the toughness enhancements? Looking beyond the "it's happening, will it matter" stance, there's absolutely no logical reason what-so-ever to actually make this change.

(Except one that equally applies to all the other enhancements as well. Someone suggested that it would level the playing field between dwarves and non-dwarves. A human fighter and a dwarven fighter are each spending 1 AP per 5 HPs and that, the theory says, makes things more fair. But if that's you're reason, you really do have to apply the same logic to every other inequity between the races. Elven Search, Dwarven Tactics, Elven Arcanum, etc.)

MysticTheurge
07-03-2007, 07:32 AM
Which means it stops, at most, one or two tells an evening. If it even stops them. So, to "fix" this issue we take away the ability of any of your friends to see you online. Mystic, are you trying to tell me you really prefer their fix to the way it is now?

No. I'd prefer if they coded some sort of "If we're both on each other's friends list, you can see me" kind of thing, but they've said that's not possible under the current system.

And so my fallback position is that if I want to be anonymous, I want to be in control of that. What's the point of having an anonymous button if, entirely out of my control and regardless of whether I clicked anonymous or not, other people can see whether I'm online or not?

Vinos
07-03-2007, 10:37 AM
One last question. You seem to be arguing this entirely from a standpoint of "It's happening, and it's not that big a deal" but there's one question that no one seems to be able to answer.

Why did this need to happen in the first place? Were dwarven fighter-types really hurting for hit points? Did they really need the extra help? Were people not taking the toughness enhancements? Looking beyond the "it's happening, will it matter" stance, there's absolutely no logical reason what-so-ever to actually make this change.



Who knows? I don't think it NEEDED to be done. I also don't think alot of things that are done NEED to be done. If I was to guess I would say the toughness line for melee types was increased to make up for the hard hitting mobs we have in this game(a whole other discussion) and since dwarves also have toughness as a racial enh line they had to apply it to both class and race. Is it NEEDED? Nah but they didn't NEED to add ghost touch shields to every single chest either. I would say that we have heard nothing from the Dev's regarding this hot issue.

MysticTheurge
07-03-2007, 11:07 AM
If I was to guess I would say the toughness line for melee types was increased to make up for the hard hitting mobs we have in this game(a whole other discussion)

If the mobs are hitting to hard, tone down the mobs. This change only makes sense if the mobs are only hitting fighters, paladins and barbarians too hard.


and since dwarves also have toughness as a racial enh line they had to apply it to both class and race.

There are other examples of a racial enhancement working differently than a comparable class enhancement. The strategy enhancements are one. Spell point enhancements are another.


Is it NEEDED? Nah ...

Given that there aren't any compelling reasons to make the change and some fairly compelling reasons not to make it, "It won't be that big a deal" isn't enough to convince me that I should just sit quietly and let it happen.

Vinos
07-03-2007, 11:24 AM
If the mobs are hitting to hard, tone down the mobs. This change only makes sense if the mobs are only hitting fighters, paladins and barbarians too hard.

Again as I said that is another discussion.



There are other examples of a racial enhancement working differently than a comparable class enhancement. The strategy enhancements are one. Spell point enhancements are another.

Fair enough but HP's are such a non-issue. Would you care if it was a skill like tumble or swim that was getting buffed? 50 more HP's for a dwarf who wants to spend the action points? I think DDO will survive.



Given that there aren't any compelling reasons to make the change and some fairly compelling reasons not to make it, "It won't be that big a deal" isn't enough to convince me that I should just sit quietly and let it happen.

I haven't heard a compelling reason yet really. This affects min/maxers a little bit when you crunch numbers but I don't think this is game-breaking by any stretch of the imagination. Well I know you are not going to be convinced but I don't think there is really anything you can do about it except /e shrug and move on with life.


I do have one question about this. Is it that dwarves are getting it or that melee is getting it that seems to really upset people?

Mad_Bombardier
07-03-2007, 11:30 AM
I do have one question about this. Is it that dwarves are getting it or that melee is getting it that seems to really upset people?That it's being implemented at all. It is contrary to the structure of the enhancement system and completely unnecessary for gameplay.

EspyLacopa
07-03-2007, 11:32 AM
I do have one question about this. Is it that dwarves are getting it or that melee is getting it that seems to really upset people?

I believe it's because anyone is getting it. It's taking the mechanic of a Curve and changing it into a Line.


Rank Points BenefitOld BenefitNew
I 1 +1 +1
II 3 +2 +3
III 6 +3 +6
IV 10 +4 +10

Only multiply all the +'s by 5. It's a drastic change, and it's setting a poor precedent based on how the system has been working so far and for how it was designed.

Vinos
07-03-2007, 11:37 AM
That it's being implemented at all. It is contrary to the structure of the enhancement system and completely unnecessary for gameplay.

I will agree that it's different than the rest of the Enh but I think this is just a preview of what's to come as we reach 20th level. Soon all the enh will be like this. I mean what are they gonna do? Have a energy of the scholor VIII that gives you a whole 30 SP's?

Mad_Bombardier
07-03-2007, 11:39 AM
I will agree that it's different than the rest of the Enh but I think this is just a preview of what's to come as we reach 20th level. Soon all the enh will be like this. I mean what are they gonna do? Have a energy of the scholar VIII that gives you a whole 30 SP's?Yes, that WAS the plan before MunchkinDevX got his say (would that be a Devkin or a MunchDev? :p). Previous Devs did not like the current implementation of taking X enhancement every level for Y static increase. So, IF they increased enhancement tiers at all, they would ONLY grant the same benefit as before. And many enhancements would not be increased beyond tier IV.

Solik
07-03-2007, 12:55 PM
Someone suggested that it would level the playing field between dwarves and non-dwarves. A human fighter and a dwarven fighter are each spending 1 AP per 5 HPs and that, the theory says, makes things more fair. But if that's you're reason, you really do have to apply the same logic to every other inequity between the races. Elven Search, Dwarven Tactics, Elven Arcanum, etc.
Insightful! I bet that's probably it. That also would explain why it's being done only for this one enhancement line and not for the other enhancement lines. While it is a breach of paradigm, the designers may have felt that the dwarven power imbalance was more important than maintaining enhancement paradigm integrity.

After all, they could cause a stir if they just outright nerfed dwarves. So many people have dwarven builds that there would be quite the outcry, a series of cancellations from people who don't want to reroll, etc. An obvious boost to all non-Dwarves would have caused similar reactions, as there are many who feel that a boost to someone else's power is a nerf to their own (due to changes in the balance paradigm). That could also be why we haven't heard a single dev response to this issue.

However, this change represents a minor power boost to all melee toughness characters, but is subtle in how it evens things out AP-wise between dwarves and the rest at the same time.

Clever! A no-win situation for Turbine, but not a bad way to tackle it.

MysticTheurge
07-03-2007, 04:01 PM
Clever! A no-win situation for Turbine, but not a bad way to tackle it.

Except it's a cop out.

What's going to be next? Search enhancements so that non-elven, non-dwarven rogues are balanced out against rogues of those races? Regular SP enhancements vs. Dwarven Faith and Elven Arcanum?

And furthermore it doesn't really solve the problem. Where, before, a dwarf was more likely to have an extra 5-10 hit points (cause you took Dwarven Toughness I and II and Class Toughness I and II vs. the non-dwarf's Class Toughness I-III) now there's no reason to stop taking the enhancement at any point (because there are no diminishing returns) meaning it's even more likely that you'll see everyone maxing these enhancements out. Which means the dwarf is going to have 50 more hit points than the non-dwarf.

If they really are trying to solve the dwarven imbalance they should either have the balls to just nerf dwarves (a less than ideal solution) or find other ways to reward and rebalance the other races (a far better solution). It really shouldn't be that hard. Add some more enhancements to non-dwarves and you'll start to rectify the power imbalance. Instead, they've beefed up dwarves even more with a slight side effect that AP costs are evened out. In short, it is a bad way to tackle it. It's precisely the wrong way to tackle it.

cdbd3rd
07-03-2007, 04:18 PM
There were hidden doors in the low road?

At the very least there is/was always that one caged alcove with crates that couldn't be opened...

KoboldKiller
07-03-2007, 04:38 PM
I haven't given up yet. I'm just wondering if this fix will take longer than the fix for Song of Freedom. It still has a couple of months to go before it earns that distinction. Of course, the problems with ranged combat in general(shots with no dice rolls) have been around even longer...

I agree with the shots and no dice roll. I have not been around that long and just created a ranged based Ranger and this is a little frustrating. The other problem with ranged combat is damage. Not the damage itself but the number of attacks per round.

Vinos
07-03-2007, 05:11 PM
If they really are trying to solve the dwarven imbalance they should either have the balls to just nerf dwarves (a less than ideal solution) or find other ways to reward and rebalance the other races (a far better solution). It really shouldn't be that hard. Add some more enhancements to non-dwarves and you'll start to rectify the power imbalance. Instead, they've beefed up dwarves even more with a slight side effect that AP costs are evened out. In short, it is a bad way to tackle it. It's precisely the wrong way to tackle it.

Who says they won't? Patience young padawan.

MysticTheurge
07-03-2007, 05:32 PM
Who says they won't?

The point is, if they're going to do that, they shouldn't be doing this first.

Vinos
07-03-2007, 06:40 PM
The point is, if they're going to do that, they shouldn't be doing this first.


If you say so. Bigger things to worry about than this IMO.

MysticTheurge
07-03-2007, 11:06 PM
Bigger things to worry about than this IMO.

Yes, they really do have bigger things to worry about. So why are they doing this?

Vinos
07-03-2007, 11:08 PM
Yes, they really do have bigger things to worry about. So why are they doing this?

Wish I had an answer for you. PM a dev or something.

MysticTheurge
07-03-2007, 11:26 PM
Wish I had an answer for you. PM a dev or something.

Well, you know, we keep mentioning it in the Dev Activities Thread, in the "DDO Development Discussion" forums, but it doesn't seem to be getting a response. Except from players who don't really have an answer. And then proceed to tell us to ask a Dev. ;)

(Devs don't really read unsolicited PMs much.)

Vinos
07-03-2007, 11:30 PM
Well, you know, we keep mentioning it in the Dev Activities Thread, in the "DDO Development Discussion" forums, but it doesn't seem to be getting a response. Except from players who don't really have an answer. And then proceed to tell us to ask a Dev. ;)

(Devs don't really read unsolicited PMs much.)

Well then I guess we'll never know. I rank it above the Bigfoot mystery but under the JFK mystery.

Solik
07-05-2007, 10:17 AM
It's precisely the wrong way to tackle it.
No matter which option they picked, someone would say this.

Nerf dwarves? Precisely the wrong way to tackle it, as it makes people reroll or feel weak. Boost other races through enhancements? Precisely the wrong way to tackle it, as then it just makes enhancements overpowered again, continuing the cycle of players being too strong. And so on and so on and so on.


Yes, they really do have bigger things to worry about. So why are they doing this?
Because it's easy. I doubt this took a developer more than a few minutes to implement. Testing certainly took longer, but this is an easy change.

Much much much easier than, say, adding five new enhancement lines.

katanaflame
07-05-2007, 12:57 PM
so what did you change looks the same to me.

Emili
07-06-2007, 05:38 AM
MT I hate arguing with you(since you tend to be right) but this is not that big a deal. so a dwarf can get an extra 50 HP or so but it will cost him 10 AP's that won't be spent on tactics or things like spell enhancers. It's a trade off. You want to be a 100 HP FoD machine you can. You want to be a 250 HP wiz who just self-buffs and melees you can too. I don't see someone doing both. I would also argue that HP's are ont as gamebreaking as skills or SP's. Having 50 extra HP really doesn't amount to much given the disposable nature of them and the fact that they are easy to replenish. However have an extra +10 to a skill(if we used the toughness example on other enhancements which seems to be the biggest gripe here) would be FAR more game-breaking. I would also say the same for using the toughness example on Spell points or spell enhancements. Spell points being generally harder to replenish and spell damage for spells like firewall would make them even more powerful. Skills, SP, etc... > HP's. But I don't think that we will be able to change each others minds so we'll agree to disagree.

Actually I know three casters who solo the Reaver's bane raid... one's a WF and the other two dwarves with HP above 200. When speaking to them they can do it because they're capable of clearing the mob, making the fly down the tunnels due to their high hp. They're more capable of handling their damages then other casters and thus can afford a few more hits or mistakes yet still deal out the damages needed to the mob.

I can see MT's concern because basically the Dwarven ehnacemnet line as it stands since mod 4 - the opening and revamp of ehnacements places the dwarf 10-20% in flexibilty on average above most races for most classes...